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Topic Originator: DJA
Date: Mon 19 Aug 13:32
Full back page in Herald sports section today, excellent article by Craig Fowler re the situation at DAFC. I totally agree with his view!
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Topic Originator: Jeffery
Date: Mon 19 Aug 15:07
Listened to his podcast the other day and he said he`d written a piece. Would like to read it.
From what he said during the show I assume the article was pretty scathing of GmbH?
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Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Mon 19 Aug 15:41
Got it.
Post Edited (Mon 19 Aug 15:44)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 19 Aug 15:52
I can`t access the full story but the opening paragraph sums it up well.
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Topic Originator: The Boss
Date: Mon 19 Aug 15:53
Good article. Just a shame people realised too late.
I like black and white (dreaming of black and white)
You like black and white
Run run away
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Topic Originator: neilholland999
Date: Mon 19 Aug 15:59
"‘I’m taking my ball and going home.” If you’re reading this, chances are that in your formative years you heard the above exclaimed many times by a friend or acquaintance as you kicked a football around a patch of grass.
It was always an announcement laden with subtext. If it was actually time for the child who owned it to return to his or her home, they wouldn’t say it like that. They’d say something much more casual, much less demonstrative.
No, what it meant was this: “you’ve p****d me off to the extent that I’ve had enough.” It was typically a childish reaction to having suffered a perceived slight. Or they just couldn’t take getting beat.
This huffy response is exactly what came to mind this past Thursday after Dunfermline Athletic released a lengthy statement on the club’s website. Across roughly 1,500 words, the German owners Fussball GmbH made it clear they’d suffered enough during their Fife adventure and were going to sell up, and there was only one group of folk to blame for this decision: the fans.
“... We have felt for a while now, probably since the middle of last season, that long term planning and putting in place the building blocks for future success is not what many are looking for. Many seem to prefer an investor who has deep pockets to throw at the first team... The speed with which last year’s heroes become this year’s discards , last year’s cleverness becomes this year’s inability is difficult for us to understand and, for us, makes our strategy of longer-term planning
and building nearly impossible,” read the statement.
At first glance it appeared to be the latest example of investors buying into football and ultimately making the shocking discovery that it doesn’t work like any other business. But from digging a bit deeper it’s clear to see they’re just scrambling around, trying to blame anyone else but themselves for their own shortcomings and Dunfermline’s recent struggles. In the end, they’ve decided the best route before selling up is to try to gaslight anyone who has dared to question them.
They only used roughly about half of the 1,500 words to essentially call their paying customers impatient idiots, so there was quite a bit else covered and a lot of it doesn’t quite accurately reflect reality.
Fussball GmbH bought their stake in the Pars back in August 2020 as they decided to press ahead with their plans despite the ongoing football lockout due to the Covid-19 pandemic, something which they believe they deserve tremendous credit for after opening up the statement by going on about it.
They then boast about how they’ve invested in the club with a training facility in Rosyth and a club academy set up since they took charge. Both of these things are accurate. There is a new training base and a club-owned academy is up and running. But the facility, at this moment in time, is little more than one pitch and a couple of portakabins, and they were able to acquire the land with help from the local council and the SFA.
As for the academy, its mention leads to perhaps the strangest part of the statement: “The Academy is now up and running and players in the first team squad have come up through the ranks... Everyone in the DAFC community was delighted to see these local and loyal players making it to the top. Songs were sung and chants adapted to appreciate their achievements.”
Not only is that strange language to use for official club business, it isn’t even true. Songs have been sung about local heroes over the past couple of seasons, but they didn’t come through the academy.
Before signing off, the board reveal that extra funds have been made available to sign more players as the squad, as constructed, isn’t strong enough. So, let’s just clarify this here: the nasty, impatient fans who care about nothing but signing new players and can’t recognise the importance of long-term infrastructure were... right? This is a year in which the Scottish Championship is wide open.
There’s no Hearts, no Dundee clubs. There isn’t even Roy McGregor’s deep pockets at Ross County to contend with. Dunfermline should be contending near the top. In fact, they should always be competitive towards the top end of that division. Hell, with the size of club they are, with the support they have (who’ve continued to back them through a pretty rough 20-year period) they should be a Scottish Premiership side. Instead, at the present time, they look more likely to head back down to League One.
There isn’t enough room left on this page to properly go through all of the other things wrong with the stewardship at this moment in time, but it feels particularly pertinent to add the following: they haven’t moved on from the team which won League One and seem to be flabbergasted at how players and management who worked so well at a lower level can’t continue to do the same at a higher one; the squad is so patchwork that they haven’t had an experienced substitute goalkeeper this entire season, and, to top it all off, they’re somehow both not bringing in players and hemorrhaging money. They posted a £1m loss earlier this year – something which, of course, wasn’t mentioned in the statement amid all the back-patting.
The ironic thing is that a lengthy announcement from Fussball GmbH is exactly what’s been missing for supporters during their reign. They don’t communicate anywhere near enough with the fans and that’s led to a lot of the impatience. Those who are the lifeblood of the club have been consistently left in the dark.
The future is now uncertain. The hope is that Fussball GmbH make good on their insistence that there are no “sour grapes” and sell Dunfermline to someone who a) has the club in their heart, and/or b) knows how to run it better. This is a sleeping giant, if you can describe a lower-league Scottish club in such terms. If they’re run properly they will return to the top."
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Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Mon 19 Aug 16:17
Quote:
neilholland999, Mon 19 Aug 15:59
"‘I’m taking my ball and going home.” If you’re reading this, chances are that in your formative years you heard the above exclaimed many times by a friend or acquaintance as you kicked a football around a patch of grass.
It was always an announcement laden with subtext. If it was actually time for the child who owned it to return to his or her home, they wouldn’t say it like that. They’d say something much more casual, much less demonstrative.
No, what it meant was this: “you’ve p****d me off to the extent that I’ve had enough.” It was typically a childish reaction to having suffered a perceived slight. Or they just couldn’t take getting beat.
This huffy response is exactly what came to mind this past Thursday after Dunfermline Athletic released a lengthy statement on the club’s website. Across roughly 1,500 words, the German owners Fussball GmbH made it clear they’d suffered enough during their Fife adventure and were going to sell up, and there was only one group of folk to blame for this decision: the fans.
“... We have felt for a while now, probably since the middle of last season, that long term planning and putting in place the building blocks for future success is not what many are looking for. Many seem to prefer an investor who has deep pockets to throw at the first team... The speed with which last year’s heroes become this year’s discards , last year’s cleverness becomes this year’s inability is difficult for us to understand and, for us, makes our strategy of longer-term planning
and building nearly impossible,” read the statement.
At first glance it appeared to be the latest example of investors buying into football and ultimately making the shocking discovery that it doesn’t work like any other business. But from digging a bit deeper it’s clear to see they’re just scrambling around, trying to blame anyone else but themselves for their own shortcomings and Dunfermline’s recent struggles. In the end, they’ve decided the best route before selling up is to try to gaslight anyone who has dared to question them.
They only used roughly about half of the 1,500 words to essentially call their paying customers impatient idiots, so there was quite a bit else covered and a lot of it doesn’t quite accurately reflect reality.
Fussball GmbH bought their stake in the Pars back in August 2020 as they decided to press ahead with their plans despite the ongoing football lockout due to the Covid-19 pandemic, something which they believe they deserve tremendous credit for after opening up the statement by going on about it.
They then boast about how they’ve invested in the club with a training facility in Rosyth and a club academy set up since they took charge. Both of these things are accurate. There is a new training base and a club-owned academy is up and running. But the facility, at this moment in time, is little more than one pitch and a couple of portakabins, and they were able to acquire the land with help from the local council and the SFA.
As for the academy, its mention leads to perhaps the strangest part of the statement: “The Academy is now up and running and players in the first team squad have come up through the ranks... Everyone in the DAFC community was delighted to see these local and loyal players making it to the top. Songs were sung and chants adapted to appreciate their achievements.”
Not only is that strange language to use for official club business, it isn’t even true. Songs have been sung about local heroes over the past couple of seasons, but they didn’t come through the academy.
Before signing off, the board reveal that extra funds have been made available to sign more players as the squad, as constructed, isn’t strong enough. So, let’s just clarify this here: the nasty, impatient fans who care about nothing but signing new players and can’t recognise the importance of long-term infrastructure were... right? This is a year in which the Scottish Championship is wide open.
There’s no Hearts, no Dundee clubs. There isn’t even Roy McGregor’s deep pockets at Ross County to contend with. Dunfermline should be contending near the top. In fact, they should always be competitive towards the top end of that division. Hell, with the size of club they are, with the support they have (who’ve continued to back them through a pretty rough 20-year period) they should be a Scottish Premiership side. Instead, at the present time, they look more likely to head back down to League One.
There isn’t enough room left on this page to properly go through all of the other things wrong with the stewardship at this moment in time, but it feels particularly pertinent to add the following: they haven’t moved on from the team which won League One and seem to be flabbergasted at how players and management who worked so well at a lower level can’t continue to do the same at a higher one; the squad is so patchwork that they haven’t had an experienced substitute goalkeeper this entire season, and, to top it all off, they’re somehow both not bringing in players and hemorrhaging money. They posted a £1m loss earlier this year – something which, of course, wasn’t mentioned in the statement amid all the back-patting.
The ironic thing is that a lengthy announcement from Fussball GmbH is exactly what’s been missing for supporters during their reign. They don’t communicate anywhere near enough with the fans and that’s led to a lot of the impatience. Those who are the lifeblood of the club have been consistently left in the dark.
The future is now uncertain. The hope is that Fussball GmbH make good on their insistence that there are no “sour grapes” and sell Dunfermline to someone who a) has the club in their heart, and/or b) knows how to run it better. This is a sleeping giant, if you can describe a lower-league Scottish club in such terms. If they’re run properly they will return to the top."
^^^^ This breakdown / Dissection is deserving of a standing ovation.
Perfect in every way.
👏👏
DunfyDave
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 19 Aug 16:34
He could have written that from what`s been posted on here and other social media sites. Why not seek out an interview with the owners to put some meat on the bones?
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Topic Originator: General Zod
Date: Mon 19 Aug 16:38
It’s just what’s been said over and over again on this website but I’m glad he’s written it and other people can read it. The folk at the club behind that statement must be feeling like absolute morons now. As is whoever thought it was a good idea to let them con their way in in the first place. The read deal apparently.
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Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Mon 19 Aug 16:47
I agree that most of his content was extracted from this forum but he pieced that jigsaw together so well and pitched a perfect article.
There is one other thing that bothers me and perhaps some Pars fans in the know can assist me in understanding GMBH initial investment?
Am I right in thinking that they actually made no financial investment into the club in return for their shareholding? Instead, they made an interest free loan which could/would be repaid with the added bonus of selling their shareholding?
DunfyDave
Post Edited (Mon 19 Aug 16:48)
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Topic Originator: Par4ages
Date: Mon 19 Aug 16:48
Good article stating that bleeding obvious there is no club in the world that has fans that don’t get impatient for success. Even amateur and lower level teams want to see success of some description year on year even if it is the next round of the cup or beating local rivals.both of which we failed miserably.
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Topic Originator: alwaysaPar
Date: Mon 19 Aug 17:03
Quote:
wee eck, Mon 19 Aug 16:34
He could have written that from what`s been posted on here and other social media sites. Why not seek out an interview with the owners to put some meat on the bones?
He could have also written that with friends and colleagues that he has met down the years who are pars fans including some that are close to the club .....
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 19 Aug 17:07
Yeah but that way he`s only getting the fans` perspective. Whatever happened to investigative journalism where they tried to find out the story behind the headlines? I`m sure a lot of fans would be interested in that.
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Topic Originator: Par4ages
Date: Mon 19 Aug 17:16
Doesn’t really matter how or who assisted him with the compiling of the article it starts to get the truth out to the rest of the Scottish football community showing that it’s not the fans fault their flawed master plan failed. It’s laughable that they ever thought it could succeed without investing in the first team.
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Mon 19 Aug 17:25
The article is, in my opinion, poor. It`s just a rehash of what`s been written on here and, frankly, some of the points expressed are expressed more eloquently on here. I expect better from journalists - surely he could have done some digging to get a balanced view rather than just rattling off the popular side of the story.
It also has a sense of entitlement that really irks me.
"Dunfermline should be contending near the top. In fact, they should always be competitive towards the top end of that division. Hell, with the size of club they are, with the support they have (who’ve continued to back them through a pretty rough 20-year period) they should be a Scottish Premiership side."
That paragraph is the type of nonsense that`s usually seen in OF forums. We `should` be in the Premiership - really? Who `should` we replace in the Premiership? Who deserves to go down so we can take our rightful place?
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Topic Originator: alwaysaPar
Date: Mon 19 Aug 17:27
Craig Fowler has some very good contacts, and he has done his homework on this, don`t worry about that.......
His journalistic style has always been one of being on the fans side and he uses his own personal views
As with most media articles, not everyone will agree with him....
Post Edited (Mon 19 Aug 17:30)
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Mon 19 Aug 17:28
I think that’s an excellent article and a solid here’s one back at you to GMBH or whatever they are.
I don’t really see anything in there to suggest he was trawling through here to get a headline, fact is he could have picked up that information anywhere 🤷🏻♂️ and I don’t think it needed to be some piece of investigative journalism. What answers would he be looking for?
COYP
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Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore
Date: Mon 19 Aug 17:28
"Am I right in thinking that they actually made no financial investment into the club in return for their shareholding? Instead, they made an interest free loan which could/would be repaid with the added bonus of selling their shareholding?"
No. You are not correct. The Club`s accounts for the year ended 31 May 2021 show that new shares were issued for £600k. They also refer to the loan and say that it "need not be repaid in cash". The accounts for the year ended 31 May 2023 say "the loan will be repaid by the issuing of equity".
So it looks like they paid in £600k for shares and then made a loan which will be converted into further shares.
My dog eats meat
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Mon 19 Aug 17:38
That’s an extra bun for Craig at the next home game!
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
Post Edited (Mon 19 Aug 17:39)
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 19 Aug 17:40
`Statement of Capital following an Allotment of Shares on 1 Sept 2020` filed at Companies House on 30 Sept 2020 confirms what you say re £600k, MC. No further documents re the issue of shares have been lodged since then.
Post Edited (Mon 19 Aug 17:41)
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Topic Originator: doctordandruff
Date: Mon 19 Aug 17:42
Jeez it`s an opinion piece, not an investigation. Glad he actually didn`t just take the statement at face value like the rest of media have done
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Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Mon 19 Aug 17:44
Quote:
Malcolm Canmore, Mon 19 Aug 17:28
"Am I right in thinking that they actually made no financial investment into the club in return for their shareholding? Instead, they made an interest free loan which could/would be repaid with the added bonus of selling their shareholding?"
No. You are not correct. The Club`s accounts for the year ended 31 May 2021 show that new shares were issued for £600k. They also refer to the loan and say that it "need not be repaid in cash". The accounts for the year ended 31 May 2023 say "the loan will be repaid by the issuing of equity".
So it looks like they paid in £600k for shares and then made a loan which will be converted into further shares.
^^^ Thanks for the heads-up MC 🙏
DunfyDave
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Topic Originator: Jeffery
Date: Mon 19 Aug 18:03
Quote:
wee eck, Mon 19 Aug 16:34
He could have written that from what`s been posted on here and other social media sites. Why not seek out an interview with the owners to put some meat on the bones?
They`ve already provided a war and peace like statement.
I`m pleased a journalist for a national newspaper is writing about what is going on. You never know, someone with the finances to run a football club might see it...
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Topic Originator: KnebworthPar
Date: Mon 19 Aug 18:15
We’ve all, rightly, taken the GMBH statement to heart however I wonder if much of the subtext to the statement is aimed at sponsors, senior figures around the club and maybe even other board members. If you’ve pumped a load of sponsorship money into the club over the last couple of years then I imagine you’ll not be overly happy with progress on a Saturday afternoon.
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Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Mon 19 Aug 18:21
Quote:
KnebworthPar, Mon 19 Aug 18:15
We’ve all, rightly, taken the GMBH statement to heart however I wonder if much of the subtext to the statement is aimed at sponsors, senior figures around the club and maybe even other board members. If you’ve pumped a load of sponsorship money into the club over the last couple of years then I imagine you’ll not be overly happy with progress on a Saturday afternoon.
^^^^ Nope! Definitely aimed at us
DunfyDave
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 19 Aug 18:34
When I first read the statement I saw it as an admission by the German investors that there was a `culture clash` between themselves and the fans regarding how their investment should be used and they now realised this difference was irreconcilable. They seemed to think this `culture` was pretty general within Scottish football but I don`t know enough about German football to know if we`re any different from our German counterparts in that respect.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 19 Aug 19:20
Quote:
wee eck, Mon 19 Aug 18:34
When I first read the statement I saw it as an admission by the German investors that there was a `culture clash` between themselves and the fans regarding how their investment should be used and they now realised this difference was irreconcilable. They seemed to think this `culture` was pretty general within Scottish football but I don`t know enough about German football to know if we`re any different from our German counterparts in that respect.
I can`t imagine there are many German clubs who would prioritise development of facilities over the first team, particularly when much of those facilities were paid for by fans and the taxpayer rather than the shareholders.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 19 Aug 19:30
We can argue all day about who `paid for` them. The fact is the investors had provided funds of £1.6m up until 31 May 2023 which financed some part of the club`s expenditure which might have suffered as a result of funds being diverted to Rosyth. There seems to be a reluctance to acknowledge that they provided any funds at all.
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Topic Originator: Aylesbury_Par
Date: Mon 19 Aug 21:36
We can argue all day about what investment has been made but we were a fan owned club with no debt, turning over a small profit and challenging for a play off position to the Premier before this lot came along.
Some people are reluctant to acknowledge the fact that all is not rosey in the garden.
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Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Mon 19 Aug 22:02
Right, so are we owe them £1,600,000?
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 19 Aug 22:10
£600k was subscribed as shares so not a debt. The rest is a loan not repayable per se but convertible into shares. How that would be dealt with would be a part of the negotiations with a potential purchaser I would imagine.
We can be nostalgic about how things were before the investment but the fact is there was no prospect of raising capital to any great extent if we had remained `fan-owned`.
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Mon 19 Aug 22:22
What happens if no buyers come forward ?
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: parsfan
Date: Mon 19 Aug 22:22
Quote:
wee eck, Mon 19 Aug 22:10
£600k was subscribed as shares so not a debt. The rest is a loan not repayable per se but convertible into shares. How that would be dealt with would be a part of the negotiations with a potential purchaser I would imagine.
We can be nostalgic about how things were before the investment but the fact is there was no prospect of raising capital to any great extent if we had remained `fan-owned`.
Why do you say it`s not repayable? Being convertible into shares doesn`t mean it`s not repayable. These kinds of loans usually are, do we have any reason to believe ours isn`t?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Mon 19 Aug 22:36
That `capital` was about what we`d have got if we`d spent a season in the premier then got relegated.
We showed that we were capable of challenging for that when we were `fan-owned` and we did it whilst making a profit.
We should go back to what worked but we will struggle to replace the talent that we had, and chased away.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 19 Aug 22:43
I`m not here to justify the original deal. Someone asked a question and I tried to answer it. A lot of these questions have been discussed in the past and there used to be details of the arrangements on the old COWS site. I don`t know if they`re still there.
Raymie, I haven`t a clue what the answer to your question is.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Mon 19 Aug 23:09
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Mon 19 Aug 22:22
What happens if no buyers come forward ?
The investors remain in place until the following happens:
Option 1 - hand over shares to the fans and take a hit on their investment (never going to happen)
Or
Option 2 - run the club on a shoestring budget to avoid further loses, running the risk of relegation and devaluing the business even more. It could also lead to admin if the clubs begins to rack up loses in relation to stadium maintenance, training ground etc etc.
Effectively a similar scenario to Masterton/Yorskton where they hang about until the money dries up, then let the legal men do their thing…….
Of course Option 3 is sell the club at a cut price and again take the hit on their investment, which will not happen either.
Post Edited (Mon 19 Aug 23:16)
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Topic Originator: parsfan
Date: Mon 19 Aug 23:13
There`s a link to it on the part 2 thread plus one I posted about CLNs (the type of loan we have).
I don`t know the answer to the question either. I know what I think would happen and it`s not good. We need a buyer.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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Topic Originator: DNCH
Date: Tue 20 Aug 05:46
Well written article. It`s refreshing to see that the media see what we see and found the statement to be bizarre, condescending and inaccurate.
I will say I`m totally open to an outcome where they change their mind and decide not to sell but we need dialogue and interaction from them rather than just their catch phrases printed on the inside of our collar.
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Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Tue 20 Aug 06:49
He has probably contacted the club for comment but they probably declined it.
c'mon the pars
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Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Tue 20 Aug 08:23
Another article up on the Courier but can’t view it without needing to subscribe, anyone able to paste the content on here?
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Topic Originator: DAPAR
Date: Tue 20 Aug 08:39
Dunfermline Athletic fan view: Investors’ wall of silence alienated supporters – but why future could still be bright
Centenary Club chairman Adam Hunter spoke to Courier Sport.
The togetherness between players and fans following last season`s League One title win. Image: SNS
By Alan Temple
August 20 2024, 7:30am
DAFC Fussball GmbH were hamstrung by their poor communication with Dunfermline supporters, while losing sight of the present as they built for the future.
That is the view of Adam Hunter, chairman of the Centenary Club, a fans’ group which contributes six figures to the club’s coffers annually.
But Hunter is adamant the right investor can guide the Pars back to the Premiership without breaking the bank as he painted a positive picture for the future.
The consortium, which has been running the club since the summer of 2020, announced on Thursday that it will be seeking to sell its 30% shareholding against a backdrop of fan dissatisfaction.
As such, they will seek to take advantage of their assertion that “there will be no shortage of interest in the club” as the Pars search for new backers.
In their statement confirming the news, the group took a couple of tacit swipes at fans – hinting at impatience and referring to “the knee-jerk reaction to call for more spending”.
After close to a year in which fans have barely heard a peep from the people pulling the purse strings, it irked many fans. And for Hunter, it exemplified one of the major problems of their de facto ownership.
‘What’s going on here?’
“Everything is about communication and that is where GmbH fell down,” Hunter told Courier Sport.
“Once you are silent on things – and they had been silent since the end of the previous season – that creates a vacuum that rumours on forums and social media will fill.
“Fifers want to see the whites of your eyes; want to understand what you are about. If you are honest, open and straight-forward about your strategy, then fans could have either bought into it, or not.
“But they failed to engage with a loyal fanbase here.
“This campaign, almost every other team has strengthened considerably. I think fans have the right to say, “what’s going on here?”
“Even in the statement, they started by talking about how fans wanted X, Y and Z. Then by the end of it, they effectively agreed funds were needed. If that was acknowledged three months ago, maybe we wouldn’t be here.”
Too much focus on the future
Hunter is the first to acknowledge that although feelings are “raw”, many Dunfermline supporters are grateful for the positives of the German investment.
Those include a new training base in Rosyth, a relaunched academy, major recruitment behind the scenes and a young, vibrant squad including the likes of Matty Todd, Ewan Otoo, Kane Ritchie-Hosler and Sam Fisher.
But he adds: “Where they took a misstep, perhaps, is that they had too much focus on the future and forgot about the now. Dunfermline Athletic needs to have a competitive first team squad.”
Hunter describes the news of DAFC Fussball’s GmbH’s impending withdrawal as “a surprise” but “not a knee-jerk decision”.
“I believe they’ve been analysing the costs, regardless. I’d be very surprised if this decision has just been made since the Falkirk game,” he continued. “They were already edging away.
“But I don’t think them walking away entirely was on any of our bingo cards.
Hunter: There’s a big opportunity for the right owner
All of which poses the looming question: what next?
However, Hunter is adamant the answer needn’t be a bleak one, underlining that, in the context of Scottish football club, Dunfermline can be considered one of the more attractive investment opportunities.
“GmbH deserve credit for laying the foundations for the next ownership group, whoever they may be,” added Hunter.
“We have our standalone training facility, which differentiates us from many other clubs.
“They have reinvigorated the academy and hired good people to run it.
“There are no debts like the (Gavin) Masterton era; the reported losses were funded by GmbH.
“We have a very engaged fanbase – I don’t like to use the word sleeping giant – and if you get it right on the pitch, Dunfermline fans will turn out in big numbers. And the town has a growing population to tap into.
“Those are the foundations of a club that can be sustainable and there’s a real opportunity for the right investor to take Dunfermline back into the top league in Scotland.”
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 20 Aug 09:01
I`ve never come across Adam Hunter before but that`s a very balanced view which gives some encouragement for the future. I think a lack of communication has been the problem for the last few years but they haven`t been totally lacking in progress.
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Topic Originator: parathletic
Date: Tue 20 Aug 09:24
They may not have left us in any debt but have they left us with unsustainable operating overheads for the years to come? Only time will tell, but who is going to want to come in and start absorbing large losses year on year?
I don`t think they have left us a `young, vibrant squad` either, unfortunately.There are a few teams playing with younger sides, including Ayr and Falkirk who have both started the season positively.
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Tue 20 Aug 09:31
Quote:
cammypar 1995, Tue 20 Aug 06:49
He has probably contacted the club for comment but they probably declined it.
Probably a chance you`re probably somewhere close to the mark.....probably
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Tue 20 Aug 11:00
Agreed - that`s a very balanced view from Mr Hunter. Credit to him.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 20 Aug 15:59
Quote:
parathletic, Tue 20 Aug 09:24
They may not have left us in any debt but have they left us with unsustainable operating overheads for the years to come? Only time will tell, but who is going to want to come in and start absorbing large losses year on year?
Not necessarily. I`d anticipate whoever comes in will be local and be a fan. It may be they do away with the CEO and commercial manager roles and carry these out amongst themselves. The academy is largely established and I`d assume the lease cost is cheaper than having to pay for use of other fields.
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Topic Originator: parathletic
Date: Tue 20 Aug 16:32
Quote:
jake89, Tue 20 Aug 15:59
Quote:
parathletic, Tue 20 Aug 09:24
They may not have left us in any debt but have they left us with unsustainable operating overheads for the years to come? Only time will tell, but who is going to want to come in and start absorbing large losses year on year?
Not necessarily. I`d anticipate whoever comes in will be local and be a fan. It may be they do away with the CEO and commercial manager roles and carry these out amongst themselves. The academy is largely established and I`d assume the lease cost is cheaper than having to pay for use of other fields.[/quote
Yes, I imagine any new owner will look to cut the cloth unless they have deep pockets.
When is the academy going to be in a position to start generating revenue? It`s the maintenence, heating,lighting,insurance, taxes, security etc etc
In order for it to be hired out there will need to be decent facilities that are going to come at a further cost-who is covering that? What costs remain to complete the project? It may all be perfectly viable, but at this stage there are still a few questions, for me. It was costing Falkirk circa £500k a year to run theres I think-that`s a huge drain on resources.
Presumably, we are still paying something to Spartans for the reserves to play there at the moment too.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Tue 20 Aug 16:49
But not having to pay for hire of training facilities.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 20 Aug 17:02
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Tue 20 Aug 16:49
But not having to pay for hire of training facilities.
And ability to hire out the facility when not in use by the club. I`d assume we`d want it set up so the reserves could be there rather than Spartans.
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Topic Originator: parathletic
Date: Tue 20 Aug 17:43
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Tue 20 Aug 16:49
But not having to pay for hire of training facilities.
At this moment time I`d rather be paying for training facilities and using free ones than hemorrhaging money if that`s what it came down to.If it can be rented out soon then that`s good but the facilities will need to be up to scratch because there are plenty alternatives.Presumably there are other associated costs like liability insurance ,staffing costs etc.If there is still a decent, viable plan in place then all good I just don`t want to see it turn into a white elephant for us.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 20 Aug 17:53
Quote:
parathletic, Tue 20 Aug 17:43
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Tue 20 Aug 16:49
But not having to pay for hire of training facilities.
At this moment time I`d rather be paying for training facilities and using free ones than hemorrhaging money if that`s what it came down to.If it can be rented out soon then that`s good but the facilities will need to be up to scratch because there are plenty alternatives.Presumably there are other associated costs like liability insurance ,staffing costs etc.If there is still a decent, viable plan in place then all good I just don`t want to see it turn into a white elephant for us.
Wonder if it`s too late to bring Rosyth in?
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Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Tue 20 Aug 18:07
Quote:
da_no_1, Tue 20 Aug 09:31
Quote:
cammypar 1995, Tue 20 Aug 06:49
He has probably contacted the club for comment but they probably declined it.
Probably a chance you`re probably somewhere close to the mark.....probably
When the question has been answered elsewhere it`s the nicest way I could PROBABLY have put it.
c'mon the pars
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Tue 20 Aug 18:24
Quote:
jake89, Tue 20 Aug 17:02
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Tue 20 Aug 16:49
But not having to pay for hire of training facilities.
And ability to hire out the facility when not in use by the club. I`d assume we`d want it set up so the reserves could be there rather than Spartans.
Believe the Youth team are playing there next week , Centenary Club members invited!
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Topic Originator: parathletic
Date: Tue 20 Aug 18:43
Quote:
jake89, Tue 20 Aug 17:53
Quote:
parathletic, Tue 20 Aug 17:43
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Tue 20 Aug 16:49
But not having to pay for hire of training facilities.
At this moment time I`d rather be paying for training facilities and using free ones than hemorrhaging money if that`s what it came down to.If it can be rented out soon then that`s good but the facilities will need to be up to scratch because there are plenty alternatives.Presumably there are other associated costs like liability insurance ,staffing costs etc.If there is still a decent, viable plan in place then all good I just don`t want to see it turn into a white elephant for us.
Wonder if it`s too late to bring Rosyth in?
Maybe Inverness are on the lookout again?🤣
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Tue 20 Aug 19:35
The cost of running EEP and the facility at Rosyth is clearly going to be unsustainable even with us selling on a gem every few seasons.
4G at EEP was the way to go..
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Topic Originator: p4r5f4n
Date: Tue 20 Aug 19:45
As the facilities at Rosyth currently consist of a synthetic pitch plus what appear to be four converted shipping containers and some portaloos I’m not convinced running costs are very high. As I’m also led to believe the facilities were provided by a sponsor and the pitch was mainly covered by government and LA grants I think that was probably a pretty good deal. Time will tell though.
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Topic Originator: partake
Date: Tue 20 Aug 21:27
John Hunter says there is no debt but if you go to page 6 of the last accounts, link below, it shows debts of 192k
https://dafc.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/2023_DAFC_filing_accounts.pdf
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 20 Aug 21:41
Quote:
partake, Tue 20 Aug 21:27
John Hunter says there is no debt but if you go to page 6 of the last accounts, link below, it shows debts of 192k
Those debts could be anything. Could be paying off loans on things like lawnmowers, mini buses, JML swivel sweeper. They'll be managed debts.
Post Edited (Tue 20 Aug 21:48)
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Wed 21 Aug 08:33
Quote:
desparado, Tue 20 Aug 19:35
The cost of running EEP and the facility at Rosyth is clearly going to be unsustainable even with us selling on a gem every few seasons.
4G at EEP was the way to go..
Take it you missed the fact that the SPL have banned all artificial pitches from 2026 or is your hope that this malaise continues forever (it feels like it will) and it never becomes an issue?
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Topic Originator: Indiapar
Date: Thu 22 Aug 07:56
A report published by the SFA. An extract:
]It says that the majority of teams who consistently overachieve both domestically and in European competition do so based on a strategy centred around having a top-level academy and developing their own talent.
And on financial matters, the research found that other comparable countries have focused on the model of developing younger talent both because it reduces the cost of first team salaries, and because it helps develop a player trading model which is shown to be the biggest opportunity to increase revenues as a club.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 22 Aug 08:03
Quote:
Indiapar, Thu 22 Aug 07:56
A report published by the SFA. An extract:
]It says that the majority of teams who consistently overachieve both domestically and in European competition do so based on a strategy centred around having a top-level academy and developing their own talent.
And on financial matters, the research found that other comparable countries have focused on the model of developing younger talent both because it reduces the cost of first team salaries, and because it helps develop a player trading model which is shown to be the biggest opportunity to increase revenues as a club.
And this is what we still need to do. However, it needs to be balanced with financing a successful first team. There is no academy if we get relegated and are haemorrhaging money.
Not to start another conspiracy, but what`s Greg Shields up to these days?
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Topic Originator: weemike
Date: Thu 22 Aug 08:24
And this is what we still need to do. However, it needs to be balanced with financing a successful first team. There is no academy if we get relegated and are haemorrhaging money.
Not to start another conspiracy, but what`s Greg Shields up to these days?
I agree. There is no point in just signing the same old journey men over and over.
Hopefully, whoever comes in shares a more balanced philosophy
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