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Topic Originator: Buster_Brown
Date: Tue 1 Oct 08:19
After the reports in the summer, it was probably only a matter of time really. Feel for the fans of the club, as we know, not a nice position to be in.
Guessing there will be a points deduction for them, similar to Edinburgh City last season?
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Tue 1 Oct 08:37
“The SPFL would deduct 15 points this season and five points next season….”
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: Alf
Date: Tue 1 Oct 08:50
And yet they were signing players
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 1 Oct 09:34
According to the Courier they were negotiating to sign a Premiership striker on loan!
I feel for Paul Allan who only signed for them a few weeks ago.
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Topic Originator: fergie
Date: Tue 1 Oct 10:56
Terrible news and must be devastating for the ICT fans as well as the city. This was always one of my favourite away days, finishing the night in Hoots
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Tue 1 Oct 11:13
Just signed Charlie Reilly on loan.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: Back_oh_the_net
Date: Tue 1 Oct 13:48
And it’s BDO aka duff & phelps (helpless) they are looking to appoint so will they come back as the Inverness Caledonian thistle? when they are liquidated?
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Topic Originator: DJAS
Date: Wed 2 Oct 17:35
Interim Chairman Panos Thomas has written to all shareholders with the following update on the club’s financial position
Dear Shareholders,
Update on the financial position of Inverness Thistle and Caledonian FC Ltd (“the club”)
As interim Chairman of the Club and with the support of all the Board Directors, I am writing to all shareholders to advise and update you on the troubled financial position of the Club currently.
We are acutely conscious of the fact that as shareholders, you are the owners of the club and require and expect to be kept regularly informed as to the health of the business, and the more so just now, given additional financial struggles, following relegation to Division 1 last May. I do hope that you will have observed that we have given greater focus on openness and transparency over the last few months as we, as directors, strive to tackle these financial challenges.
Actions in August and September
By August of this year, it became clear to the Board that the Club’s financial position, which had been precarious for some years in all honesty, had become perilous. The 2023 accounts lodged late at Companies House revealed a loss of nearly £600k for the 2022/2023 season and as the auditors were preparing to commence the audit for season 2023/2024, where the anticipated loss is expected to rise to £1.2m, serious question marks were highlighted, regarding the club’s solvency and ability to continue to trade.
Strenuous attempts had been made by the Board to attract an inward investor and we did seriously consider an approach from 77 Ventures (Ketan Makwana), on which there has been much public comment. However, we suspended these discussions when it became clear that the gap between buyer expectations and seller ability to deliver was unlikely ever to be bridged. We remain open to consider any other credible offer of investment, even at this late stage.
At that point, and following meetings with many of the major shareholders who we considered might be able to assist the club and be willing to “ride (again) to the rescue”, the Board accepted a generous proposal from Alan Savage of Orion, who alone came forward and offered to undertake 2 key tasks:
1) to act as a business Consultant to the club, in order to carry out an urgent, intensive forensic appraisal and report (after 6 weeks) on the club’s financial position. Alan scrutinised the day to day running of the club, the financial projections, held discussions with current directors and staff, met with former directors with substantial loans outstanding, spoke with trade creditors and assessed what could be done to fast track an increase in commercial revenue and generally encourage more support and engagement from the club’s key stakeholders.
2) against the current perilous financial backdrop, and to provide time for this financial analysis to take place in an orderly way, he also offered a substantial financial lifeline to the club, affording it temporary solvency status, to allow us to continue to trade. To date that support from Alan has reached £350,000.
It goes without saying and the Board wish to place on record that we are all hugely grateful to Alan for having made these 2 commitments.
The club now has the benefit of his detailed report and conclusions, which we wish to share with you all and have summarised this below.
Conclusions from the Financial Appraisal
- Loss of £1.2m for the 2023/2024 season
- Predicted loss in the current season of £1.2m based on current projections. This does not account for additional expenditure that will also have to be incurred in restructuring the club as a first division business.
- Trade creditors (including HMRC) stood at £600,000 early in August. This includes monies due for a contract with the kit supplier, where the club is committed to a spend of £125,000 per season for the next 3 seasons and a provision against litigation threatened by the club’s former CEO that could, if the club’s case was unsuccessful, cost £170,000 .
- Former Directors Loans currently stand at £3.425 million, which would cause the Balance sheet to stand at negative £3.8 million by May 2025.
- A huge injection of cash is urgently required in the short term to keep the Club afloat. The amount that is estimated to be required to get to the end of this season (in terms of cash requirement, potential claims and backlog creditors) is in the region of £1.4 – £1.6 million. This figure assumes a second place finish in the league and excludes the sum of £350k already paid into the club by Alan Savage. In the past there have been numerous sources of this type of philanthropic support, whereas at present, despite efforts by the Board, it has thus far been Alan alone who has provided temporary funding to stave off insolvency.
- The latest cashflow projections predict that at least £200,000 will be needed by the end of October.
- Battery Farm: the club still hopes to benefit from a positive planning decision on the proposed Battery Farm. Angus MacDonald, the local MP was contacted and he is going to ask the Reporter in Edinburgh to expedite his decision on the Battery Farm Planning Application that was rejected by HRC. If the Battery Farm went ahead, it has been anticipated that the Club would receive £3.4 million less expenses from the Battery Farm Company, the club’s shares in which had been bought by David Cameron, Allan Munro and Ross Morrison, in order to provide monies to run the club to the end of last season. This may provide a way out of the club’s financial difficulties.
Land surrounding the Stadium extending to 7/8 acres approx. It had been hoped that this land might be re-conveyed to the club by the current leaseholders, Inverness Caledonian Thistle Properties Ltd. No deal has yet been struck though, although the club remains optimistic that a deal might still happen. If the lease of this land could be reconveyed to the club by ICTPL, it would better secure the club’s long-term future by ending the unease of having the 2 car parks subject to a 6 month break option, which could potentially see the club lose this vital land. It would also allow the club to use the remainder of the land to try to generate much needed commercial income, a fact which has been remarked upon by our auditors.
Other actions which the Board have taken
In the light of the current challenges for the club, the Board felt it necessary and procedurally correct to open discussions with the SPFL and we did so on Friday 20th September. Unsurprisingly, they had already had some awareness of our difficulties.
Discussions with Scotland’s leading football administrator has also taken place, after which the Board determined that it was duty bound to investigate what the administration process would entail, if that was to be initiated in a final attempt to avoid liquidation of the club. Subsequent discussions have been opened with an Administrator experi
Predictor league winner 2012/2013
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Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu
Date: Wed 2 Oct 17:53
Whilst Alan Savage’s temporary financial lifeline has undoubtedly saved the club from insolvency in the last few months, now that he has reported in depth to the Board, it would be unrealistic to expect that lifeline to continue. A decision as to the future path of the club must be made in the next few weeks and certainly by end October at the latest.
As a club Board, it is incumbent on us to formally report this to you, the shareholders, as we have done above, seek your views and any suggestions to save the club, that may not have come to the fore over the last few months, and then act appropriately, in accordance with our statutory duties as directors.
What no Balance Sheet or financial analysis recognises, of course, is that the club’s most valuable asset is its fan base. They provide the life blood for the club and we recognised that we should also make further steps through the Supporters Trust and publicly, to appeal to them to help the club to survive.
We need to accept the reality of the situation that with debt by May 2025 likely to be £1.4 – £1.6 million (to cover cash loss, potential claims and back log creditors) and a balance sheet standing at negative £3.8 million by the financial year end in May 2025, finding a credible buyer is highly aspirational.
However, a former Chairman has expressed the opinion within the last week, that he feels confident that Administration could be avoided, if the Board reached out to former Directors and major Shareholders to see what amount of money could be raised quickly to save the Club. Whilst we have already done just that, and on more than one occasion, nonetheless, and in line with this request, the Board are reaching out once again, and by virtue of this letter, to all shareholders, to former Directors, fans and all Stakeholders, to ascertain if it is still possible to raise money of the levels indicated above.
We are also proposing the following actions, recognising that time is of the essence:
1) we intend to set up a Crowdfunding Page, where pledges of cash can be made to a ‘Save ICT Fund”
Unless the Appeal can raise £200k immediately, and certainly by Wednesday, 16th October, then Administration is inevitable, because the Club would be insolvent.
2) any innovative ideas for raising substantial funding, that might have been overlooked by us as a Board, can be e mailed to us at panos.thomas@ictfc.co.uk
3) We propose to have an open meeting of shareholders, fans and stakeholders in the Highlander Suite at the Club, at Stadium Road, to be held at 7.30pm on Monday, 7th October. We encourage as many as can attend to please come along and share your thoughts with us.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 2 Oct 18:42
When you read stuff like this you really wonder how any clubs are surviving in Scotland and it yet again displays just how damaging the SPL/Scottish Premiership has been with nonsense like the 10k seater rule.
Post Edited (Wed 02 Oct 18:43)
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Wed 2 Oct 19:11
Quite bold of them to forecast and budget on a 2nd place finish, but I guess the prize pot isn`t significant in that division between 2nd or 4th
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Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Wed 2 Oct 20:53
Two weeks to raise £200k or go into administration, which would mean a points deduction and the loss of players. Grim stuff.
_________________
 Support Dunfermline Athletic Disabled Supporters` Club (DADSC) when you shop online with one of 8000 firms: https://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/dadsc[
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 3 Oct 15:17
Inverness Caledonian Thistle manager Duncan Ferguson says he is working for free to help the Highland club through a financial crisis. The League 1 club needs to raise £200,000 in two weeks to avoid being placed in administration this month.
Ferguson, who took a pay cut in August, said: "I felt it would be appropriate for myself to offer my wage into that pot." He said he would continue to work without his salary until ICT was safe, but added: "Obviously I can`t go without a wage forever because I have got to put food on the table, but at the moment needs must."
Ferguson said he decided on Wednesday night to give up his wage. He said he would not ask others to do the same. Ferguson added: "I`ve done my bit. I`ve given up that wage and I`m still working for the club. I`m making sacrifices."
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Thu 3 Oct 15:29
"I`ve got to put food on the table"
Not all heroes wear capes......
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: bannerpar
Date: Thu 3 Oct 16:20
Speaking of Big Dunc, I see he managed to top a table of football`s hardest men, outdoing Vinnie Jones, Norman Hunter, Stuart Pearce, Graeme Souness, Joey Barton etc. Quite an accolade!
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Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Fri 4 Oct 01:07
Be a nice gesture if we could conjure up a small amount to aid their cause. Never nice to see teams in this predicament.
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Topic Originator: shellypar
Date: Fri 4 Oct 07:22
Quote:
Berry, Fri 4 Oct 01:07
Be a nice gesture if we could conjure up a small amount to aid their cause. Never nice to see teams in this predicament.
I would be nice but i dont know if we would actually be allowed
COYP
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Topic Originator: weemike
Date: Fri 4 Oct 09:46
Good on big Dunc leading by example. I hope inverness get through this difficult period.
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Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu
Date: Fri 4 Oct 10:09
Quote:
shellypar, Fri 4 Oct 07:22
Quote:
Berry, Fri 4 Oct 01:07
Be a nice gesture if we could conjure up a small amount to aid their cause. Never nice to see teams in this predicament.
I would be nice but i dont know if we would actually be allowed
I`m sure the fans could club together ,
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Topic Originator: shellypar
Date: Fri 4 Oct 11:32
Quote:
saltonsgonagetu, Fri 4 Oct 10:09
Quote:
shellypar, Fri 4 Oct 07:22
Quote:
Berry, Fri 4 Oct 01:07
Be a nice gesture if we could conjure up a small amount to aid their cause. Never nice to see teams in this predicament.
I would be nice but i dont know if we would actually be allowed
I`m sure the fans could club together ,
As much as it is bad i`d rather sort my own teams issues out first imo, as selfish as that may sound
COYP
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 4 Oct 12:28
Quote:
shellypar, Fri 4 Oct 11:32
Quote:
saltonsgonagetu, Fri 4 Oct 10:09
Quote:
shellypar, Fri 4 Oct 07:22
Quote:
Berry, Fri 4 Oct 01:07
Be a nice gesture if we could conjure up a small amount to aid their cause. Never nice to see teams in this predicament.
I would be nice but i dont know if we would actually be allowed
I`m sure the fans could club together ,
As much as it is bad i`d rather sort my own teams issues out first imo, as selfish as that may sound
I agree. I`d really like it we had a "fund" somewhere people could contribute towards in case we need fans to step in. Easier to do this ahead of time than an urgent rush.
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Topic Originator: pars4life1
Date: Fri 4 Oct 16:57
Throwing money down a well paying into that.
We all know that administration is a horrendous process, but it does serve a purpose once businesses have hit the ****, not only in debt but current unfavourable contracts(caleys kit deal commits them to spend £125k a season for example). From what I`ve read unless the magic money tree starts to blossom soon then admin is actually the best option for Caley. Just like us it will be a good day that someone has taken on their case, administrators don`t take on cases they can`t win, they need to make sure it pays them for a start.
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Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Fri 4 Oct 17:13
Administration may be the only option for a struggling football club, but the consequences reach out into the community, with individuals losing their jobs and local traders not being paid for work they have done.
As was seen at DAFC, when it happens it takes years, and a lot of hard work by the club`s senior management, to restore a local community`s belief that the club can be relied upon to honour its contracts.
_________________
Support Dunfermline Athletic Disabled Supporters` Club (DADSC) when you shop online with one of 8000 firms: https://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/dadsc[
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Fri 4 Oct 18:19
"Just like us it will be a good day that someone has taken on their case, administrators don`t take on cases they can`t win, they need to make sure it pays them for a start."
Administrators are like civil case lawyers - they`ll get their professional services fees regardless.
The rest involved are losers, especially the local businesses etc. who are financially shafted.
Post Edited (Fri 04 Oct 18:21)
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Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu
Date: Fri 4 Oct 19:23
Quote:
pars4life1, Fri 4 Oct 16:57
Throwing money down a well paying into that.
We all know that administration is a horrendous process, but it does serve a purpose once businesses have hit the ****, not only in debt but current unfavourable contracts(caleys kit deal commits them to spend £125k a season for example). From what I`ve read unless the magic money tree starts to blossom soon then admin is actually the best option for Caley. Just like us it will be a good day that someone has taken on their case, administrators don`t take on cases they can`t win, they need to make sure it pays them for a start.
Who`s to say it will stop at administration, not all company`s may take the Administrators offer , liquidation could soon follow
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Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Sat 5 Oct 13:16
Quote:
veteraneastender, Fri 4 Oct 18:19
"Just like us it will be a good day that someone has taken on their case, administrators don`t take on cases they can`t win, they need to make sure it pays them for a start."
Administrators are like civil case lawyers - they`ll get their professional services fees regardless.
The rest involved are losers, especially the local businesses etc. who are financially shafted.
^^^^ Totally this
I supply and service many hotels and restaurants and have had countless Administrator letters over the past 20 years informing me of their clients predicament and listing their fees. Sometimes over £1,000 per hour for Director level. They always get paid first.
DunfyDave
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sat 5 Oct 15:14
When businesses are owed money from a defaulting football club they will likely demand payment upfront for future goods and services.
When DAFC went into administration I heard that certain suppliers would only accept such an arrangement - who could blame them ?
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Topic Originator: Indiapar
Date: Sun 6 Oct 15:38
I think any SPFL club going into administration is a warning shot for the game. Nobody benefits from any club going under. I am sure there are a number of clubs struggling financially. That leads me to wonder if a new football model is needed in Scotland. Quite what that is, is another question.
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Topic Originator: d3monstrate
Date: Sun 6 Oct 19:08
Things should have significantly changed when Rangers went under, but didn`t... Nothing is going to change for diddy teams going bust
Post Edited (Sun 06 Oct 19:28)
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sun 6 Oct 19:18
"I think any SPFL club going into administration is a warning shot for the game."
There`s been no shortage of previous examples - Dundee have done it twice.
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Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Sun 6 Oct 19:47
I agree India.
I`m not sure that the current model is sustainable. It seems too many clubs are spending money they don`t have in order to compete with other clubs doing likewise, all in the vain attempt to chase limited success.
When people talk about investment they tend to mean donations - from millionaires with money to burn. To mangle Mr Macawber, fans may come to expect £10 of product for £9 of expenditure.
Arguments for change may centre on cutting up the same cake in different ways, rather than increasing the size of the cake. All right if you are a winner, less so otherwise.
Administrators seem to blame the clubs - they claim the SPFL or whatever is a members` organisation and thus they are only doing what the clubs want. We need leadership, or to allow leadership to flourish.
I note that it is less than a year since Ian Maxwell (who is Chief Executive of the SFA) told the Scottish Parliament that financial failings of clubs was not an issue of relevance in Scotland.
Still, Ernie Walker`s review must be due to be published soon. Perhaps something will turn up?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 6 Oct 22:16
It`s a similar picture across Europe. Clubs are paying well over the odds for players. It`s fine for the big European clubs who get the competition money, sponsorship deals, massive strip sale revenue etc. Sadly, for most other clubs they`re screwed. Outside the top 5 or 6 clubs in the English Premier they would be absolutely shafted without the TV money.
In Scotland there is little chance of making money unless you`re Celtic, Rangers or maybe Hearts. Part time clubs may be doing alright due to low overheads. However, clubs like Dunfermline can be well supported but losing money thanks to relatively high player wages courtesy of being so close to England where TV deals mean higher pay. That`s presumably why the German consortium pushed the academy model.
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Sun 6 Oct 23:36
Being close to England and being relevant….. or not…. Financially or economically is always going to be an issue for Scotland….Yes ?
Of course we could have done something about that….. but chose not to……..and still we wait for “change” ….and we will wait…..and wait….and wait…..the same conversations we have had about Football, the Economy, why it’s so bad, we will still be having in ten, twenty years time, FFS our children will be having the same conversations.
We had a chance to change things but bottled it…….let’s hope they have more guts than we had eh ?
What an opportunity we missed in 2014.
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Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Mon 7 Oct 08:51
The situation is desperate, Desperado
DunfyDave
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 7 Oct 09:31
Independence is irrelevant. If you are offered £500 in Scotland and £5000 in England, guess where most would go?
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Mon 7 Oct 11:10
Quote:
jake89, Mon 7 Oct 09:31
Independence is irrelevant. If you are offered £500 in Scotland and £5000 in England, guess where most would go?
Exactly. Salaries down South for players have been better since Johnny Haynes burst the maximum wages deal in the early 1960s.
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Topic Originator: fcda
Date: Mon 7 Oct 17:44
I don`t agree it`s "irrelevant" but I don`t think it`s a big factor.
With independence from England you might be able to restrict cross border movement, introduce quota systems and therefore encourage development from within.
However, I think for other business reasons that restriction is unlikely and of course, rejoining the EU would open that up too.
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Mon 7 Oct 22:43
P&J reporting that administration remains the most likely outcome for Caley despite their being interest from 3 different parties.
Scott Gardiner being left without a name. High on the list of recent bizarre moves is him emailing Carlisle telling them not to bother paying the 80k compensation they were due for Cameron Harper.
What a clusterf*ck
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
Post Edited (Mon 07 Oct 22:43)
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Topic Originator: Fethiyespar
Date: Tue 8 Oct 13:49
The full recording of last night`s meeting at the Caledonian Stadium is now on YouTube.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Tue 8 Oct 16:45
It`ll be a miracle if ICT come through this mess.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Wed 9 Oct 21:24
I think there is a real chance they become fully liquidated - unfortunately 😬
We were lucky that we have a solid fan base (could there be say 20/25,000 Pars fans? More? I know only roughly 5000 turn up every Saturday but there will be a lot more who can’t regularly attend matches) and that the debt wasn’t such a massive amount that it was unattainable for us to find raise too like Rangers in 2012 for example
COYP
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Topic Originator: pars4life1
Date: Wed 9 Oct 22:22
Inverness are in a better place than we were, maybe a smaller fan base(but not by that much) but on the flip side. A smaller debt, things haven`t got quite so bad they are dealing with unpaid wages and write off orders, tho obviously they are too close to that to feel comfortable. Debt is also mostly due to directors, who whilst incompetent don`t appear to be the outright crooks masterton is.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 10 Oct 00:20
I`m no finance expert so it`s hard to tell. It seems to me that ICTs finances took a massive hit last year with almost £2m extra debt being accrued. It`s presumably even worse this year?
I hope they don`t go into administration or come out of it as we did but I`d worry about the long term viability of the club. They`re still a "new" team and Inverness is a bit like Perth in that it never had a massive football following, and also suffers from having too many Celtic/Rangers fans. It`s also has the additional hit that it`s more expensive to live there whilst also being less desirable to younger players.
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Topic Originator: par-91
Date: Thu 10 Oct 08:13
Quote:
NMCmassive, Wed 9 Oct 21:24
We were lucky that we have a solid fan base (could there be say 20/25,000 Pars fans? More? I know only roughly 5000 turn up every Saturday but there will be a lot more who can’t regularly attend matches) and that the debt wasn’t such a massive amount that it was unattainable for us to find raise too like Rangers in 2012 for example
Let’s not rewrite history here. We were lucky the majority of our debts were to owners/directors and Lloyds fortunately accepted 0p to the £ to save the club. We paid 0p to the £ in the CVA. We absolutely did not pay our debts, the only debts we paid were the football related ones.
Post Edited (Thu 10 Oct 08:21)
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Thu 10 Oct 09:25
No one is re-writing history and as long as there are people willing to remind us all of what happened 10 years ago I`m sure none of us will ever be allowed to forget.
So thanks for that.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 10 Oct 10:18
I think we`re splitting hairs here a bit. In my opinion the key difference between ourselves and ICT is size of support. Disregarding debts and payments etc, we were fortunate to have a decent sized support which gave local businessmen, who were/are also fans, the confidence to put a fair chunk of money in the hat.
I`m not sure ICT have that same level of sustainability. They`re hoping to make money from the battery farm thing but even if that goes ahead the money from it would simply clear debts, which will build up again if the books aren`t balanced asap. You need fans in the stadium, buying food, buying strips, buying scarfs. What is the away support like from other clubs? I know a fair few Pars fans like a trip up but I imagine it`s maybe less affordable nowadays?
I feel for ICT, but this is a bigger issue in Scottish football, particularly for clubs who spent a lot building stadiums they didn`t need to meet SPL criteria and now have to maintain them.
Celtic and Rangers will never agree to bigger leagues or caps on player wages etc but I fear if they don`t take action soon they`ll find themselves with even less competition than they have right now. Perhaps that`s their long term goal? They go to England along with maybe Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen and play it out in the English first division or Championship? It really is a sad state of affairs.
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Topic Originator: Ladswell_Thistle
Date: Thu 10 Oct 16:28
Were Inverness not in the Scottish cup final a couple of seasons back? Must have made a good chunk of cash from that!
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Thu 10 Oct 16:51
Quote:
Ladswell_Thistle, Thu 10 Oct 16:28
Were Inverness not in the Scottish cup final a couple of seasons back? Must have made a good chunk of cash from that!
We went into admin on the back of three sell-out cup finals against Celtic in fairly quick succession.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: DA-go Par Adonis
Date: Thu 10 Oct 16:57
We went into administration in 2013. The last final was in 2007.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love it when we go sell Kevin Nisbet,
He's gonna pay for everyone this season.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 10 Oct 17:06
Big Dunc accepts that Admin and a 15 point penalty would almost certainly relegate them. So far they`ve only raised £75k of the £200k they need to find by the end of next week.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Thu 10 Oct 17:35
Even if they did raise the £200K it`s likely only going to be a temporary sticking plaster solution in the short term.
No businesses would supply goods and services etc. except on a money upfront basis - and cash flow is a key factor in their predicament.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Thu 10 Oct 23:27
Quote:
par-91, Thu 10 Oct 08:13
Quote:
NMCmassive, Wed 9 Oct 21:24
We were lucky that we have a solid fan base (could there be say 20/25,000 Pars fans? More? I know only roughly 5000 turn up every Saturday but there will be a lot more who can’t regularly attend matches) and that the debt wasn’t such a massive amount that it was unattainable for us to find raise too like Rangers in 2012 for example
Let’s not rewrite history here. We were lucky the majority of our debts were to owners/directors and Lloyds fortunately accepted 0p to the £ to save the club. We paid 0p to the £ in the CVA. We absolutely did not pay our debts, the only debts we paid were the football related ones.
Certainly not rewriting history!
We were extremely lucky on a number of fronts.
It does make me worry for ICT tho
COYP
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Thu 10 Oct 23:29
Quote:
Ladswell_Thistle, Thu 10 Oct 16:28
Were Inverness not in the Scottish cup final a couple of seasons back? Must have made a good chunk of cash from that!
Perhaps they’ve overspent as much as we did 🤷🏻♂️
COYP
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Topic Originator: pars4life1
Date: Thu 10 Oct 23:38
The fundraiser at this stage was a stupid idea, it was time to accept reality and put that money into a fund to recover once admin happens rather than throwing into the wind hoping to stop it.
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Topic Originator: Jeffery
Date: Fri 11 Oct 00:06
I saw there was a single donation of 20k. As has been said above it feels like good money after bad at this stage.
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Fri 11 Oct 00:16
Ryan Christie donated the £20k
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Fri 11 Oct 10:07
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Fri 11 Oct 00:16
Ryan Christie donated the £20k
Great to see a player remember his roots no matter how high he has got in the game.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 11 Oct 10:09
Isn`t his dad, Charlie, the chief executive of ICT now?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 11 Oct 10:28
Yes.
This might sound like a crass question, but is the donated money ringfenced if they don`t meet the target? It would be a shame to see all that money go into an administration black hole rather than to try and sort out a pence in the pound deal.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Fri 11 Oct 11:18
Nothing crass about it - a perfectly reasonable question, I was about to ask the same.
Better from the club`s perspective to retain whatever funds they have raised for post administration finances and probable relegation to the lowest tier.
The downside of course is that a whean of debtors are liable to be shafted.
A points deduction, may not result in going down - when it happened to Dundee the second time the team went on a club record unbeaten run (15 games ?)and avoided the drop.
Post Edited (Fri 11 Oct 11:22)
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Fri 11 Oct 11:45
If they had a semi-competent man in charge they`d probably survive in League One but they don`t. Ferguson has already said that staying up won`t be possible if they get a 15 point deduction despite such a deduction only putting them 12 points behind Dumbarton who they also have to play 3 more times. Difficult but with a seige mentality doable.
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Fri 18 Oct 13:24
Unfortunately the deal with a business owner has fallen through. Admin looks the only way now. Club statement on their X account.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 18 Oct 13:34
The crowdfunding appeal which hoped to raise £200k has now reached £86k so it has only raised £11k in the last week.
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Topic Originator: PARSwede
Date: Fri 18 Oct 18:39
Been confirmed going into administration....
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Fri 18 Oct 19:04
I hope they manage to sort it out but who knows 🤷🏻♂️
Ive got to say the Rangers lot that are celebrating it online are absolutely disgusting. If anything, I hope ICT pull through and then that lot watch Celtic do 10 in a row.
COYP
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Fri 18 Oct 19:07
Very sad news. The points deduction and some of their higher earners being released, will almost certainly mean relegation.
Let’s hope they can rebuild next season and start the journey back up the leagues ?
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Fri 18 Oct 20:20
I hope they survive, but if they don`t or have to free up their best players, are there any we could try for?
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Fri 18 Oct 20:27
Quote:
PARrot, Fri 18 Oct 20:20
I hope they survive, but if they don`t or have to free up their best players, are there any we could try for?
What a vulture
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 18 Oct 20:37
Hopefully they can pull things together. Never good to see this sort of thing happen to a club. Shame on the vile Rangers "fans" gloating about it. Given their club shouldn`t even exist now they`ve got a nerve!
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Fri 18 Oct 21:11
Quote:
jake89, Fri 18 Oct 20:37
Hopefully they can pull things together. Never good to see this sort of thing happen to a club. Shame on the vile Rangers "fans" gloating about it. Given their club shouldn`t even exist now they`ve got a nerve!
Hopefully if it`s administration they fall into, they can get themselves out of that without liquidation. Could it all end up with the club being dissolved and Inverness Caledonian and Inverness Thistle being relaunched.
Fans of the rangers are incredibly bitter, I think it really cuts them to the core to see that wee teams like Dundee, Livingston and Dunfermline found themselves in that position, banded together and saved their club, while they sat back and let their club die
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Fri 18 Oct 21:22
Quote:
red-star-par, Fri 18 Oct 21:11
Quote:
jake89, Fri 18 Oct 20:37
Hopefully they can pull things together. Never good to see this sort of thing happen to a club. Shame on the vile Rangers "fans" gloating about it. Given their club shouldn`t even exist now they`ve got a nerve!
Hopefully if it`s administration they fall into, they can get themselves out of that without liquidation. Could it all end up with the club being dissolved and Inverness Caledonian and Inverness Thistle being relaunched.
Fans of the rangers are incredibly bitter, I think it really cuts them to the core to see that wee teams like Dundee, Livingston and Dunfermline found themselves in that position, banded together and saved their club, while they sat back and let their club die
In fairness, I don’t actually think Rangers fans had much of an option but the chat from some of them really bothers me. Maybe cos we went through it and I had that real thought that I wouldn’t be able to watch my team again 🤷🏻♂️
I know it’s just a bunch of idiots but still bugs me 😂
COYP
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Topic Originator: Connor560
Date: Fri 18 Oct 22:28
Quote:
PARrot, Fri 18 Oct 20:20
I hope they survive, but if they don`t or have to free up their best players, are there any we could try for?
Paul Allan...
C'mon Ye Pars!
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Fri 18 Oct 23:03
Quote:
Connor560, Fri 18 Oct 22:28
Quote:
PARrot, Fri 18 Oct 20:20
I hope they survive, but if they don`t or have to free up their best players, are there any we could try for?
Paul Allan...
Was waiting on that 🙄 slightly different from when we went into admin where players had to have a deal signed by end of March or not play again that season.
Shame for them to have fallen into this position and seems slightly different from ours where its been other issues and funding rather than misspending of money. Hopefully they don’t go fully under though!
And Rangers fans are just cretins.
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Topic Originator: Buster_Brown
Date: Sat 19 Oct 00:01
Always feel for the genuine fans when I read of clubs going into administration. We’ve been there, of course we have, but the players released find other clubs and the people who put the club there walk away. Those that suffer are the fans in the stands, fans on the board and fans in general as they have to pick up the pieces.
Goes without saying that I hope ICT get through this!
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sat 19 Oct 10:00
It`s not unreasonable to assume that the terms which the potential saviour was putting on the table were unpalatable to the board and club beancounters.
Likely that they would be punted sooner rather than later etc. with a brand new regime installed.
Nobody was going to come along and give a condition free handout.
Sad days for ICT - this will be painful.
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Tue 22 Oct 18:26
Sadly, it’s official now
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 23 Oct 17:28
Big Dunc and two coaches have been sacked.
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Wed 23 Oct 17:38
Not sure why sacking Dunc benefits them ? Was he not offering to work for free ?
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 23 Oct 17:46
I`m not sure Administrators are allowed to engage anyone for free, Raymie. Didn`t Joe Cardle offer to play for free when we went into Admin but he was let go?
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Wed 23 Oct 18:16
Big Dunc would only have been willing to work free in the short term in an effort to stave off administration - surely ?
Now that it is confirmed I doubt he would have been willing to continue pro bono.
He would have been one of the bigger contracts at the club - so the administrators would look to cut him - maybe by mutual consent ?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 23 Oct 19:01
I`d assume the administrators view that contracts say they`re paid £X and would presumably be the case they would eventually wish to return to that amount.
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Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Wed 23 Oct 20:27
Even if someone isn`t taking his contractual wage, presumably the Administrator would still have to pay indirect costs like National Insurance, etc if he remained an employee.
_________________
Support Dunfermline Athletic Disabled Supporters` Club (DADSC) when you shop online with one of 8000 firms: https://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/dadsc[
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Topic Originator: Alter Ego
Date: Wed 23 Oct 21:52
Administrators will rip the club apart to get any money back…
Mon the Pars!
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Wed 23 Oct 22:00
Quote:
Alter Ego, Wed 23 Oct 21:52
Administrators will rip the club apart to get any money back…
Agreed. It`s what they do.
Guess which club are the only one in history not to lose any players upon entering administration?
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Wed 23 Oct 22:31
I think Stanza will be correct.
I would imagine that even if Ferguson notionally worked "for nothing" the administrators would still be obliged to pay other employment costs such as NICs and Pension contributions, and would likely have to reserve against a possible claim at a later stage for unpaid wages.
Even if there were no legal requirements, the administrators would be foolish to incur such expenses even on a contingent basis, IMO.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 23 Oct 23:05
The Administrators are obliged to get the best financial outcome for the creditors so it is inevitable the best-paid employees are the main victims of lay-offs. That`s what happened when we went into Admin and we were left with a very inexperienced squad which meant we struggled to get results.
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Thu 24 Oct 06:31
If we roll back to when the club wanted to be based in Kelty for player recruitment and also for training, etc. will this be back on the table or probably too far gone for that.
I also think back to when this was discussed and whether any alleged savings would have staved off administration for any longer.
I genuinely wonder how football finances actually get through accountant audits.
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Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Thu 24 Oct 06:57
Ferguson took a wage cut but never said he would work for free. ICT fans at my work says he was on £4.5k a week.
c'mon the pars
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Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore
Date: Thu 24 Oct 07:50
Hardly a vulture, red star, when a player has been sacked I’m sure he’d welcome a new offer.
My dog eats meat
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 24 Oct 15:48
Players Adam Brooks, Flynn Duffy, Wallace Duffy, (not related I think) and Cameron Ferguson (son of Dunc) have been let go and goalie Jack Newman returns to his parent club, Dundee Utd. Veteran striker Billy McKay and first team coach, Scott Kellacher, have been put in charge of the team.
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Thu 24 Oct 16:03
Are the released players around to sign for (and play for) new clubs outside of the transfer window? I seem to recall there`s some rules to protect them in scenarios such as this one?
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Thu 24 Oct 16:06
Is part time football on the agenda ?
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Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Thu 24 Oct 16:55
super caley go tits up just like glasgow rangers
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Topic Originator: Indiapar
Date: Thu 24 Oct 18:16
They aren`t the first and won`t be the last. Until they change the league structure to enable football to become an entertainment spectacle again where teams arent frightened to open up and atrack, crows will dwindle. The sport is becoming more a war of attrition rather than something to look forward to on a Saturday. Gone are the days when clubs could rely on supporters loyalty. They want to be entertained.
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Topic Originator: Rigger Al
Date: Thu 24 Oct 18:22
Quote:
Indiapar, Thu 24 Oct 18:16
They aren`t the first and won`t be the last. Until they change the league structure to enable football to become an entertainment spectacle again where teams arent frightened to open up and atrack, crows will dwindle. The sport is becoming more a war of attrition rather than something to look forward to on a Saturday. Gone are the days when clubs could rely on supporters loyalty. They want to be entertained.
grounds were packed when we used to play home and away ,Playing the bigger teams brought the fans in .As been mentioned before if a possibility of playingva top team 4 or 6 times in a season fans loose interest and pick and choose when to attend ,especially wit todays cost
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Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie
Date: Thu 24 Oct 20:21
They`ve had to pay over the odds in wages for years now due to their location to try and attract players or even fight off Ross County and McGregors` money when in for the same player so i`m surprised how long they`ve maintained such a decent standard before it started to wrong.
Worked beside an ICT fan who said they owned a few flats locally, which is nothing unusual these days, as an incentive for young players moving up to the area but they were sold off in last year or so when they started to feel the pinch.
---------------------------------------------------------------
"People always talk about Ronaldinho and magic, but I didn't see him today. I saw Henrik Larsson; that's where the magic was."
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 25 Oct 07:26
According to the Courier Dundee United aren`t happy that their loanee, Jack Newman, has been sent back to them because, under the present rules, he won`t be able to play for any other club before January, including them, unlike the other players who were released from their contracts. They are disputing the position with the SPFL and SFA.
Post Edited (Fri 25 Oct 07:31)
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Topic Originator: Buster_Brown
Date: Fri 25 Oct 07:50
Quote:
Bandy, Thu 24 Oct 16:03
Are the released players around to sign for (and play for) new clubs outside of the transfer window? I seem to recall there`s some rules to protect them in scenarios such as this one?
They’re free agents, clubs can sign free agents until the end of February (I think it is, but don’t quote me on the month), so they’ll be ok to sign for another club.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Fri 25 Oct 09:44
Quote:
wee eck, Wed 23 Oct 17:46
I`m not sure Administrators are allowed to engage anyone for free, Raymie. Didn`t Joe Cardle offer to play for free when we went into Admin but he was let go?
Wasn’t it Cardle and Barrowman? 🤔 they both got a hard no as an answer. Apparently it’s to do with the costs of keeping a player, even if he’s playing for free the club are obligated to pay insurances and other expenses that I’m not 100% sure what they are (don’t know if anyone else has any insight??) but administrators take that into consideration as well.
COYP
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Fri 25 Oct 10:45
Quote:
wee eck, Fri 25 Oct 07:26
According to the Courier Dundee United aren`t happy that their loanee, Jack Newman, has been sent back to them because, under the present rules, he won`t be able to play for any other club before January, including them, unlike the other players who were released from their contracts. They are disputing the position with the SPFL and SFA.
That wont end well for them - administrators can cancel any contracts they like to save costs, parent clubs wont have a leg to stand on in that regard.
Players can sign for clubs up until end of March I think, but can only play competitively for 2 clubs in a season. I remember Cardle was one that didn’t have to go but had to rush through his move to the Rovers or risk not playing again for the rest of the season. Others most likely in same boat.
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Topic Originator: allparone
Date: Fri 25 Oct 11:07
Are there different rules for players who have been released due to administration? Normally if a player is registered then released outwith a window they cannot register with another club until the next transfer window.
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Topic Originator: DBA
Date: Fri 25 Oct 12:41
Quote:
allparone, Fri 25 Oct 11:07
Are there different rules for players who have been released due to administration? Normally if a player is registered then released outwith a window they cannot register with another club until the next transfer window.
Yes there is, they are the equivalent to free agents now and can sign for anyone and play immediately.
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Topic Originator: Kdy Par
Date: Fri 25 Oct 13:03
Quote:
DBA, Fri 25 Oct 12:41
Quote:
allparone, Fri 25 Oct 11:07
Are there different rules for players who have been released due to administration? Normally if a player is registered then released outwith a window they cannot register with another club until the next transfer window.
Yes there is, they are the equivalent to free agents now and can sign for anyone and play immediately.
You can only sign and play for someone before January, if you were a free agent when the window closed. Not sure if these players are exempt from this rule though.
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Topic Originator: Fethiyespar
Date: Sat 26 Oct 13:26
Ross Jack has joined the staff at the Caledonian Stadium, good appointment for the club.
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Topic Originator: DBA
Date: Sat 26 Oct 14:04
Quote:
Kdy Par, Fri 25 Oct 13:03
Quote:
DBA, Fri 25 Oct 12:41
Quote:
allparone, Fri 25 Oct 11:07
Are there different rules for players who have been released due to administration? Normally if a player is registered then released outwith a window they cannot register with another club until the next transfer window.
Yes there is, they are the equivalent to free agents now and can sign for anyone and play immediately.
You can only sign and play for someone before January, if you were a free agent when the window closed. Not sure if these players are exempt from this rule though.
They are exempt. That was the question.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sat 26 Oct 17:49
Today`s result has done them no favours either, especially if Annan can get a point/points v QotS.
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Topic Originator: allparone
Date: Sat 26 Oct 20:54
Thanks DBA for clearing that up.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sun 27 Oct 12:50
ICT now 15 points adrift at the bottom following Annan`s win yesterday - it`ll need a miracle for them to claw their way back.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 13 Nov 13:58
Battery farm appeal rejected by Scottish Government.
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