|
|
Topic Originator: obiwanyouknowme
Date: Fri 4 Apr 16:54
Dunfermline Athletic’s relegation rivals, Hamilton Accies, could be hit with a points deduction due to a potential breach of SPFL rules.
The penalty would have a massive impact on the Pars’ battle to avoid the drop this season.
The two teams face each other in a massive showdown at East End Park on Saturday.
Just one point separates the sides after Dunfermline leapfrogged this weekend’s opponents with Wednesday night’s 1-0 win over Livingston.
However, news of Hamilton potentially being docked points changes the whole dynamics of the fight at the bottom of the championship.
It is understood that the SPFL have been investigating Accies, who saw their Scottish FA licensing downgraded last month and who it has emerged have doubts over their stadium tenancy for next term.
There are rules in place to govern the standards teams must meet to play in Scotland’s top four divisions.
The SPFL stipulates clubs must have at least a bronze-level licence from the SFA.
Hamilton recently dropped from the requisite bronze to entry level, similar to both Dumbarton and Inverness Caledonian Thistle, who were sanctioned after going into administration.
Accies have appealed that decision.
Could Dunfermline land Hamilton boost?
A source has told Courier Sport that Hamilton could be treated in a similar fashion to Bonnyrigg Rose, who earlier in the current campaign were docked six points due to not meeting pitch standards at their Midlothian ground.
An SPFL spokesperson said: “Under SPFL rules, all clubs have to confirm by 31 March what their registered ground will be for the following season.
“It also remains a fundamental aspect of the SPFL rules that our member clubs have a Scottish FA bronze-level licence.”
As things stand, a six-points penalty for Accies would place them below bottom side Airdrie in the table and plunge John Rankin’s team into major difficulties.
It would also give Dunfermline a massive boost in their bid to avoid both bottom spot in the table and the relegation play-off place that comes with finishing ninth.
New manager Neil Lennon earned his first victory in charge in midweek against Livingston and will be hoping to put daylight between his team and Hamilton with another win this weekend.
But any sanction suffered by Accies, who have also suffered issues with unpaid wages this season, would clearly further help the Pars’ bid to retain their second-tier status.
Post Edited (Fri 04 Apr 16:56)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot
Date: Fri 4 Apr 17:08
It would be a shame if they got docked points at this point of the season. I`d rather we stayed up due to hard work and winning games rather than benefit from another club`s administrative error. Why can`t it be F*lkirk, that would be hilarious 🤣. Yes,it may sound petty, but I still hold a massive grudge about years of Norrie songs ⚰️ 💐.
Pars fan.
Magpies fan.
Mens tennis fan.
Alternative rock fan.
Not a fan of much else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Buster_Brown
Date: Fri 4 Apr 17:57
Have to say that I don’t want us staying up on a technicality, but it certainly makes things more interesting
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: DJAS
Date: Fri 4 Apr 18:09
If rules have been broken and they get docked then **** them. Rules are there for all the teams.
Predictor league winner 2012/2013
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: parsfan97
Date: Fri 4 Apr 18:23
I couldn’t care how we stay up as long as we do, if they can’t follow the rules like the rest of us then get them docked immediately
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Par
Date: Fri 4 Apr 18:24
I think all clubs that don`t have 4 stands should be docked 20 points!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Lesliepartoo
Date: Fri 4 Apr 19:10
Quote:
Par, Fri 4 Apr 18:24
I think all clubs that don`t have 4 stands should be docked 20 points!
Totally agree lol
Cmon ye pars
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Socks
Date: Fri 4 Apr 21:25
Also worth noting that our own license has been downgraded since last season. It doesn`t make any real difference, but last year we were at `Silver` while this year we`ve been downgraded to bronze on the `first team` category, and therefore also on the overall award. There`s a good chance this was due to the situation reported earlier in the season when we didn`t have a doctor for an away game - this is a requirement for the silver award but bronze level only needs a doctor at home games.
Hamilton`s downgrade is also based on `first team` criteria.
Although a points deduction might help us in this instance, I`m uncomfortable with it happening to any club at this stage of the season. The timing of the reviews seem arbitrary - they`re roughly once a year but the time varies a bit. For example, ours from the last two seasons were in November 2024 and September 2023. It makes a difference when the review is done - a defect found in March could have a very different outcome to one found in June.
While I agree with the principles of licensing, particularly in relation to grounds, I do worry about the next steps. Currently, all clubs need an Entry license to compete in Highland/Lowland Leagues and at least Bronze license to compete in all divisions of the SPFL. How long until we see proposals for the top division to be open only to clubs with a Silver license? Not very long, would be my guess.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Par Dan
Date: Fri 4 Apr 21:40
Quote:
Lesliepartoo, Fri 4 Apr 19:10
Quote:
Par, Fri 4 Apr 18:24
I think all clubs that don`t have 4 stands should be docked 20 points!
Totally agree lol
Let’s also dock a point for every additional finger in their support anaw
Post Edited (Fri 04 Apr 21:40)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: GJS93
Date: Fri 4 Apr 21:56
if it happens and we benefit from it, i wont be complaining but im not sure it will be sorted before the end of this season if they have a case to answer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 4 Apr 22:24
How can their stadium be downgraded mid season?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Rigger Al
Date: Fri 4 Apr 23:07
Quote:
jake89, Fri 4 Apr 22:24
How can their stadium be downgraded mid season?
They have to have all requirements in place for next season by the 31st March ,they have not met the deadline so they may be docked points ,,,,i think
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Sat 5 Apr 08:28
I don`t care how we stay up either tbh.
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sat 5 Apr 08:40
Are they paying their player wages on time now ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot
Date: Sat 5 Apr 11:58
If they do get docked points they probably won`t show this season. They`ll start on -6 next season due to how long it takes to arrange hearings and the appeals etc.
Pars fan.
Magpies fan.
Mens tennis fan.
Alternative rock fan.
Not a fan of much else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Sat 5 Apr 12:35
Quote:
kozmasrightfoot, Sat 5 Apr 11:58
If they do get docked points they probably won`t show this season. They`ll start on -6 next season due to how long it takes to arrange hearings and the appeals etc.
If it affects relegation and playoffs, I’d assume they will have to act very soon.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Mon 14 Apr 17:57
Get them deducted 6 points! Will take any help now to keep us from 9th :)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Mon 14 Apr 22:58
Do point deductions not go onto the start of next season?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Mon 14 Apr 23:05
No chance they will be docked points for this season……
What an opportunity we missed in 2014.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Ahoy!Ahoy!
Date: Mon 14 Apr 23:08
Bonnyrigg were deducted points in November. Surely can’t be one rule for one team and not the other.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Kdy Par
Date: Mon 14 Apr 23:32
Quote:
Ahoy!Ahoy!, Mon 14 Apr 23:08
Bonnyrigg were deducted points in November. Surely can’t be one rule for one team and not the other.
Any points deduction would have to be for the current season.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Ahoy!Ahoy!
Date: Tue 15 Apr 06:53
Exactly, I fully expect them to be docked 6 points on Thursday straight after the hearing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Tue 15 Apr 07:43
Quote:
Ahoy!Ahoy!, Tue 15 Apr 06:53
Exactly, I fully expect them to be docked 6 points on Thursday straight after the hearing.
If they can confirm their stadium tenancy doesn’t that mean that there is no issue? So they won’t be docked 6 points. That is a rather large if as it is “show me the money” time on Thursday. But it would be strange if they haven’t sorted this out in time.
I hope this is wrong and they lose the 6 points.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Tue 15 Apr 08:19
what was the justification of the drop to entry level from bronze? If its something with the stadium then would Clyde not have something similar? As Socks said though there are matchday things like doctor in attendance that impact the level of licence you have.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Tue 15 Apr 09:24
Did they sort out the player wages issue ? Is that still on the agenda ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Athletico
Date: Tue 15 Apr 10:37
I`m not expecting a points deduction here. The Herald states that the charges relate to the stadium, all clubs must submit by the 31st March what stadium they intend to be playing at for the following season. Clyde submitted the paperwork in time, Hamilton did not, seems nothing more than an admin error? Might be more to it, but that`s what the Herald have said.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: eastendalloapar
Date: Tue 15 Apr 10:54
A reason might be that their stadium only has 3 sides. Perhaps a certain team from Grangemouth will also be worried.
matt forsyth
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Athletico
Date: Tue 15 Apr 11:14
Ah, interesting! I stand corrected. More lazy journalism then.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Buster_Brown
Date: Tue 15 Apr 11:45
Quote:
GJS93, Tue 15 Apr 11:10
the charge is for the drop to entry level which is related to first team criteria
https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/12843/190325-club-licensing-awards.pdf
BBC reported it was a "variety of failings".
the ground issue is a different matter.
There certainly seemed like a “variety of failings” when the news first broke. On P&B, Hamilton also spoke of a lack of club Doctor (at the time), on match days.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot
Date: Tue 15 Apr 11:50
I`ve no idea what I`m meant to be looking at in that list,it`s all gobbledygook to me. I did notice that like us, F*lkirk have a silver for their ground. How`s that when they only have 3 sides compared to our luscious fully seated 4 sided stand?
I don`t think they`ll get deducted points but I`m a pessimist. Hope for the best but expect the worst.
Pars fan.
Magpies fan.
Mens tennis fan.
Alternative rock fan.
Not a fan of much else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Ahoy!Ahoy!
Date: Tue 15 Apr 11:52
Not sure exactly what determines what level you are but how are Falkirk and Partick both Silver level whereas East End is only Bronze level. What determines a stadiums level?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Athletico
Date: Tue 15 Apr 11:59
SPFL licencing
if you have spare day, you can read through the licence requirements.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 15 Apr 12:36
Short version is they don`t just look at the stadium generally but consider the quality of the playing surface, the facilities available, the accessibility of the stadium etc.
Falkirk, for example, would be higher as it`s newer so therefore more accessible. It`s also used as a community facility due to the pitch they stole from the local greengrocers window display.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Ahoy!Ahoy!
Date: Tue 15 Apr 13:26
Yeah I had a quick look at it and it is dependant on various elements.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: P
Date: Tue 15 Apr 15:04
Probably fly in the face of opinion but I wouldn’t want us to be ‘that team’ and stay up on nonsense like this. If we go down it’s because we’re rank and if we stay up (which I think we will) it will be because we fought tooth and nail to do so.
Theres no dignity in scrabbling about hoping to survive on technicalities
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Tue 15 Apr 16:21
"Theres no dignity in scrabbling about hoping to survive on technicalities"
dont think we are scrabbling about and its not like we have complained etc to get the SFA looking at them. This is all standard licencing stuff. Would it be the worst thing if it happened and we stay up, keep Lennon/Mullen and rebuild much stronger for next season?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Tue 15 Apr 16:27
"Falkirk, for example, would be higher as it`s newer so therefore more accessible."
Think East End is pretty good for accessibility? Raised platforms, easy to access disabled toilets, can access the catering facilities (which you can`t at every ground in a wheelchair). OK the car parking isn`t ideal but other than that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford
Date: Tue 15 Apr 16:54
If they lose points then so be it. I don`t particularly want to be a team that survives on default but if they don`t comply with the rules that everyone else has to comply with then that`s that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 15 Apr 18:07
Quote:
Rusty Shackleford, Tue 15 Apr 16:54
If they lose points then so be it. I don`t particularly want to be a team that survives on default but if they don`t comply with the rules that everyone else has to comply with then that`s that.
Well said, Rusty. I don`t recall any team refusing to avoid relegation or promotion due to another team being docked points or refused entry because their stadium didn`t meet the minimum requirements.
Step forward Motherwell and Aberdeen for starters.
Not your average Sunday League player.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Tue 15 Apr 18:20
They wont be the first or last team to pay the price for, "Technicalities."
Falkirk missed out on promotion several times, we have paid the price, ICT....the list goes on.
It is not our fault if they are in breach of established rules whilst in a vulnerable position.
If it happened to us, we would have to accept it, so I will accept surviving under the same circumstances.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 15 Apr 18:53
Quote:
kelty_par, Tue 15 Apr 16:27
"Falkirk, for example, would be higher as it`s newer so therefore more accessible."
Think East End is pretty good for accessibility? Raised platforms, easy to access disabled toilets, can access the catering facilities (which you can`t at every ground in a wheelchair). OK the car parking isn`t ideal but other than that.
I`d say we punch well above our weight but it`ll always be easier if facilities were there at the start rather than retrofitted. Falkirk maybe get bonus points for having a hearing loop system and baby changing. I`m not reading that lengthy paper to find out though!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Tue 15 Apr 18:55
There`s no way they`ll be docked points.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 15 Apr 19:40
Quote:
da_no_1, Tue 15 Apr 18:55
There`s no way they`ll be docked points.
Trying to jinx them, da? 😁
Not your average Sunday League player.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: RossDAFC88
Date: Tue 15 Apr 20:45
Rules are rules, and the violations committed by Hamilton may very well cost them valuable points. Personally, I would be delighted if they were penalised, as it would realistically help us retain championship status. Our presence in this league is pivotal , especially since next year promises to unveil the progress that can be achieved under these new owners. Their potential deduction of points would provide me with a measure of relief as we approach the remaining fixtures.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Tue 15 Apr 20:48
Quote:
GG Riva, Tue 15 Apr 19:40
Quote:
da_no_1, Tue 15 Apr 18:55
There`s no way they`ll be docked points.
Trying to jinx them, da? 😁
Possibly....
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 15 Apr 20:58
The decision to penalise them or not should have nothing to do with Hamilton`s league position.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: RossDAFC88
Date: Tue 15 Apr 21:11
Agreed
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot
Date: Wed 16 Apr 08:27
Seconded.
Pars fan.
Magpies fan.
Mens tennis fan.
Alternative rock fan.
Not a fan of much else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Ahoy!Ahoy!
Date: Wed 16 Apr 08:41
It’s not one rule for one team and another rule for another, it’s the same across the board.
Whether we feel it’s right or wrong Bonnyrigg have already been deducted points this season due to dropping from Bronze to entry level due to a slope on the pitch.
Either Accies will be deducted points or if they aren’t then Bonnyrigg should get their points back.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Bannockburn Par
Date: Wed 16 Apr 08:48
Quote:
Ahoy!Ahoy!, Wed 16 Apr 08:41
It’s not one rule for one team and another rule for another, it’s the same across the board.
Whether we feel it’s right or wrong Bonnyrigg have already been deducted points this season due to dropping from Bronze to entry level due to a slope on the pitch.
Either Accies will be deducted points or if they aren’t then Bonnyrigg should get their points back.
The SFA will be under Huge scrutiny if they don’t deliver the same penalty as handed out to Bonnyrigg.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Ahoy!Ahoy!
Date: Wed 16 Apr 08:50
Spot on, it’s the same offence committed so should be the same punishment.
It doesn’t matter what league you’re in, what your league position is or who you are.
Rules are rules and every team must follow the rules and/or accept the same punishments.
Post Edited (Wed 16 Apr 08:51)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: obiwanyouknowme
Date: Wed 16 Apr 09:14
It shouldn’t matter where Hamilton are in the league rules are rules.
Bonnyrigg are 7 points behind Forfar as it stands if you have them their points back it would only be 1 point. They run the risk of dropping out of the football league as such.
So for me it should be the same punishment.
What will happen is that they will no doubt give them a fine or drop them 4 points meaning they will be above Airdrie and should they beat Queens be above both.
We await the decision tomorrow.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Ahoy!Ahoy!
Date: Wed 16 Apr 09:21
I did see that if Bonnyrigg were to get the points back they’d be 1 point behind Forfar, who they play on Saturday.
Post Edited (Wed 16 Apr 09:22)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Wed 16 Apr 09:27
"The SFA will be under Huge scrutiny if they don’t deliver the same penalty as handed out to Bonnyrigg."
the circumstances may be completley different though. Bonnyrigg were granted a licence (as i understand it with conditions) that the playing surface would be improved/levelled which was not then actioned and hence the licence removed and points docked. Lets just see what comes out of tomorrow.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Kdy Par
Date: Wed 16 Apr 09:51
Quote:
Playup_Pompey, Wed 16 Apr 09:27
"The SFA will be under Huge scrutiny if they don’t deliver the same penalty as handed out to Bonnyrigg."
the circumstances may be completley different though. Bonnyrigg were granted a licence (as i understand it with conditions) that the playing surface would be improved/levelled which was not then actioned and hence the licence removed and points docked. Lets just see what comes out of tomorrow.
The Daily Record is indicating it’s an issue with not having a licensed doctor or them having correct indemnity insurance. I can’t see them letting this one go.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: SusieQ
Date: Wed 16 Apr 10:14
I couldn`t care less if they get deducted points and it helps us - absolutely no one would have sympathy if it was a reverse scenario.
What IS ridiculous tho is that at this stage of the season they could be deducting teams points. However, if Hamilton were comfortably in mid table, for example, no one would really care less.
Not really bothered how we stay up as long as we do - we`re due one as got screwed with relegation after Gretna went bust, so ....... 🤔
COME ON YE PARS!
Post Edited (Wed 16 Apr 12:55)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: TroonPar
Date: Wed 16 Apr 14:33
Let’s face it folks, teams like Shamilton and Livi and QP or indeed Dross Co. should not be in either of the top two leagues. They bring sod all to Scottish Football in terms of crowds and quality. While we have lacked the latter in recent seasons, along with the Wee Team, Partick, Ayr and to a lesser extent Airdire, at least we have a history, a decent fan base, a decent stadium and now strong financial backing. Having a sugar-daddy alone does not make a football team.
Bill Kinnear
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Wed 16 Apr 14:40
Quote:
TroonPar, Wed 16 Apr 14:33
Let’s face it folks, teams like Shamilton and Livi and QP or indeed Dross Co. should not be in either of the top two leagues. They bring sod all to Scottish Football in terms of crowds and quality. While we have lacked the latter in recent seasons, along with the Wee Team, Partick, Ayr and to a lesser extent Airdire, at least we have a history, a decent fan base, a decent stadium and now strong financial backing. Having a sugar-daddy alone does not make a football team.
Awful take. You want that sort of attitude, away and follow the MLS. We are below Hamilton, County and Livi and deserve to be
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Paralex
Date: Wed 16 Apr 14:56
All this could be a fatal distraction. We need to pull ourselves clear of danger by our own efforts. Let`s do it on the park, and get more points on the board than the bottom two. That will send us onward to next season with a bit of self belief. Even if six points were deducted, Hamilton could still overhaul us, if we didn`t pick up enough points from our remaining games.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Wed 16 Apr 15:23
you just listing teams who won silverware in the last couple of decades whilst we have yo-yoed into the the tier of scottish football
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Wed 16 Apr 15:25
I want what`s best for DAFC. If it means Accies being docked points then so be it.
Like someone says further up, no-one else gives a sh1t about us, so why should we?
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: TroonPar
Date: Wed 16 Apr 15:38
It is what it is. These teams have little or no support and it’s telling when away teams fans outnumber them often 2 to 1. How they survive is beyond me. At some point some of these teams will disappear.
Bill Kinnear
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: parathletic
Date: Wed 16 Apr 15:54
Quote:
TroonPar, Wed 16 Apr 15:38
It is what it is. These teams have little or no support and it’s telling when away teams fans outnumber them often 2 to 1. How they survive is beyond me. At some point some of these teams will disappear.
With the exception of Livingston all the other teams you mentioned have been around for 100 years or more. Queens Park are one of the oldest clubs in the world and Hamilton were also around before we were.To claim these teams don`t have a history is blinkered.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: TroonPar
Date: Wed 16 Apr 16:24
I didn’t say that they didn’t have a history. All I’m saying is that, in my opinion, they bring no added value to the top two leagues or the modern day set up. We haven’t either recently and the difference is we still carry a greater support than them. Of course some of them have the disadvantage of being in the west of Scotland - Livi as a relatively new club were never going to have a huge following - and competing against the so-called bigger teams.
Bill Kinnear
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Wed 16 Apr 16:40
Quote:
TroonPar, Wed 16 Apr 16:24
I didn’t say that they didn’t have a history. All I’m saying is that, in my opinion, they bring no added value to the top two leagues or the modern day set up. We haven’t either recently and the difference is we still carry a greater support than them. Of course some of them have the disadvantage of being in the west of Scotland - Livi as a relatively new club were never going to have a huge following - and competing against the so-called bigger teams.
As long as there is a passion for a club and available finances then I suspect these poorly supported clubs will always be viable. I have friends who support these smaller clubs and it is as important for them how they perform as it is for us, even if we have a larger number of supporters.
I was unlucky enough after the Hamilton game to exit the North East on the way back to the Halbeath Road, but it made me smile to see what it meant to the Hamilton fans to win that game and on a different day I would have been doing the same for the Pars. That is what football is about. Not the numbers, but the passion. At least for me.
Post Edited (Wed 16 Apr 16:41)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Wed 16 Apr 20:05
Quote:
TroonPar, Wed 16 Apr 16:24
I didn’t say that they didn’t have a history. All I’m saying is that, in my opinion, they bring no added value to the top two leagues or the modern day set up. We haven’t either recently and the difference is we still carry a greater support than them. Of course some of them have the disadvantage of being in the west of Scotland - Livi as a relatively new club were never going to have a huge following - and competing against the so-called bigger teams.
I don’t know why you equate attendance with how big a club is. Scot is sparsely populated and we are just fortunate to be in an area with a large population.
But compare attendances with percentages of population and we are actually quite poorly attended in general.
The likes of Ross County are over attended given the population of Dingwall
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 16 Apr 21:54
I suppose places like Hamilton, Motherwell and Airdrie are really just "Greater Glasgow" as it just sprawls out. You could argue the same with places like Livingston and Dunfermline with Edinburgh but the difference is they`re not all joined together.
The other reason is probably simply down to our old friend religion and the notion that Celtic = Catholic, Rangers = Protestant and that lovely west coast question of "aye, but who dae ye REALLY support?".
Back on topic - If other clubs already got docked points for similar breaches then the time in the season shouldn`t matter but I`d suggest they need to hurry up and make a decision. It sounds like a very messy situation with the stadium.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Socks
Date: Wed 16 Apr 23:32
The licensing downgrade is separate to the issues around the ground. I haven`t seen any official comment from either Hamilton or the SPFL but the talk of points deductions is to do with the licensing issue and it`s because Bonnyrigg were deducted 6 points earlier in the season when their license was also downgraded from bronze to entry.
With Bonnyrigg, the reason for the downgrade was an issue with the ground. With Hamilton, it`s not. Their ground is listed as `silver`. It`s on `first team` criteria that they`ve been dropped to entry level.
It`s late in the season, but this has been going on for ages. I found some of the earlier lists of awards from this season and most clubs in this division were initially audited in September. Some, including Hamilton and the Pars, had further reviews in November, presumably to follow up on certain issues. Most were resolved at that time, including ours being downgraded from silver to bronze, also on first team criteria. The lists showed Hamilton`s award still not having been decided at that stage, with further reviews in December. In March, theirs was finalised as only meeting requirements for entry license. One list showed it as subject to appeal, and another list was later published with that asterisk removed.
I assume the hearing tomorrow is going to deal with this. It is now a requirement of all SPFL clubs to maintain at least bronze license and so the fact that they haven`t means they have breached league rules. I don`t see how that can be contested. The SPFL now need to consider what sanction is appropriate, if any. It`s not certain there will be a points deduction and, if there is, it`s not certain it will be 6. To some degree, it will depend on circumstances.
It`s possible it will also look at the separate issues with the ground. The ground issues are to do with them not confirming their ground for next season by the deadline of 31 March, and possibly also whether they have the necessary security to play there at all. There seems to have been some admin issue that meant they returned the forms slightly late. If this is part of what the hearing is about, and it was just a matter of submitting forms a couple of days late, it would be ridiculous for there to be any significant penalty for that if they can find some mitigation for it.
My guess is that it will deal only with the licensing issue, with any ground-related matters to be looked at later if at all. The licensing issue is what needs dealt with now, as any points deductions have to be sorted out very soon. And since it`s been going on since September, there absolutely does need to be a final outcome to it before the end of the season.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Thu 17 Apr 00:59
Good investigative work, Socks. Thanks.
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Thu 17 Apr 16:10
I find it amusing hearing fans talk about teams like Hamilton and livi not deserving of the fruits of good recruitment and overall decent running of their club because of crowd size.
c'mon the pars
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Thu 17 Apr 16:32
Quote:
cammypar 1995, Thu 17 Apr 16:10
I find it amusing hearing fans talk about teams like Hamilton and livi not deserving of the fruits of good recruitment and overall decent running of their club because of crowd size.
That’s right. Rangers Mk1 had an enormous global support but that didn’t save them from liquidation.
Crowd size means bugger all.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Thu 17 Apr 16:35
Any news on the outcome of this?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot
Date: Thu 17 Apr 16:51
It`s not like our crowds are 25 thousand every week. 1 or 2 thousand extra fans over teams around us isn`t much. It certainly doesn`t give us the right to puff out our chests and say "We`re a bigger club than you" to anybody.
I hate all this sleeping giant nonsense too. We`re not a giant team. We`re of a similar size to Motherwell, St Mirren, Dundee, Kilmarnock etc.
Old Firm, New Firm, Hibs & Hearts then the rest of us.
Pottering about at the bottom of the Championship is not where we should be though,we should be a regular yoyo SPL/top of the Championship team but we have no devine right to be there.
If Scottish football wasn`t dictated by TV, money and greed we`d have a top league of 16/18,comparable to other countries. Then we`d more than likely be in the top league generally flitting about mid table or battling relegation with the occasional venture into European territories. Its never gonna change though so we need to fight hard whilst getting lucky with having owners that want the club to progress and a manager worth his salt..
Pars fan.
Magpies fan.
Mens tennis fan.
Alternative rock fan.
Not a fan of much else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: coventrypar
Date: Thu 17 Apr 17:00
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot like
Date: Thu 17 Apr 16:51
If Scottish football wasn`t dictated by TV, money and greed we`d have a top league of 16/18,comparable to other countries.
kozma ... I`m old enough ( perhaps you are too?) to remember when there was two leagues of 16. For the clubs themselves I think it was a great way to bring in a few fringe players to test them out etc with no pressure, but as a supporter for 6 or 7 teams frankly too many games became meaningless in the last 1/4 of the season and it was all a bit meh
PS - I don`t have a solution .)
"If you have no kind words to say you should say nothing more at all"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Connor560
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:00
Being in the know at another club - points deduction confirmed. More than I thought.
Pars safe from automatic relegation.
Will let the press do the rest.
C'mon Ye Pars!
Post Edited (Thu 17 Apr 18:02)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: 87Par
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:02
Quote:
Connor560, Thu 17 Apr 18:00
Being in the know at another club - points deduction confirmed. More than I thought.
Pars essentially safe from automatic relegation.
Will let the press do the rest.
Fabulous 👌
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:04
Hamilton been deducted 15 points and a 9k fine, table being updated imminently.
Just announced by SPFL.
Sure there will be an appeal.
Post Edited (Thu 17 Apr 18:06)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: AveragePar
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:06
WOW.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: RMGpar
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:06
Jeeez! Hamilton all but relegated now! Let’s get points on the board Saturday!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: P
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:08
Hamilton Academical Football Club (the “Club”) have today (17 April) received a 15-point deduction and been fined £9,000 after the Club was found to have breached multiple SPFL Rules by an independent SPFL disciplinary tribunal.
The SPFL Board had issued four charges against the Club and the Club were found by the independent tribunal to have breached SPFL Rules and have been sanctioned as follows:
Charge 1: Breach of Rules B1, E17 and E18 in relation to the failure to notify the SPFL of Remuneration Defaults in respect of six players and a failure to act with the utmost good faith in its representations to the SPFL Board regarding the lifting of a transfer embargo after previous Remuneration and Tax Defaults.
Sanction: Immediate 12 point deduction and £5,000 fine
Charge 2: Breach of Rule D4.3.2 in relation to the provision of incorrect information regarding stadium ownership in the Club’s Season 2024/25 Membership Criteria submission.
Sanction: £3,000 fine (£1,500 of which has been suspended)
Charge 3: Breach of Rule D4.8 in relation to the downgrading of the Club’s Scottish FA Club Licence overall award from Bronze to Entry level.
Sanction: Immediate 3 point deduction
Charge 4: Breach of Rule E28.7 in relation to the late provision of the Club’s Membership Criteria submission for Season 2025/26.
Sanction: £1,000 fine (fully suspended)
The William Hill Championship table will be updated accordingly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Big T Par
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:08
Annnnnd relax
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Berkey
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:08
Now 5 points clear of the playoffs but really 6 with goal difference.
Almost safe, hopefully Hamilton still stuff queens on sarurday
The post below replying to me is by one of .nets finest champions of mediocrity!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: SusieQ
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:10
Ooft!
That`s a belter (for us) 😲👏🏼
COME ON YE PARS!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:11
Wonder if Bord is kicking himself for the bonus he offered Lennon.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: AveragePar
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:12
Quote:
Berry, Thu 17 Apr 18:11
Wonder if Bord is kicking himself for the bonus he offered Lennon.
Dinnae be ridiculous
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: RMGpar
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:12
So a win for us on Saturday with ardrie getting beat sees us safe ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:12
Quote:
AveragePar, Thu 17 Apr 18:12
Quote:
Berry, Thu 17 Apr 18:11
Wonder if Bord is kicking himself for the bonus he offered Lennon.
Dinnae be ridiculous
It was tongue in cheek mate 😂
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: coventrypar
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:14
Expect Airdrie to go on and fight hard to get more points with a real lifeline.
Effectively due to goal difference they need 6 pts more than us or Q.Park.
As long as we don`t lose to them - we will be safe.
I do think with the reasonable run they are on Airdrie will be too strong for the 1st divisions teams anyway and I applaud them for keeping the faith with McCabe.
"If you have no kind words to say you should say nothing more at all"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:16
Bloody hell,gotta feel for the fans as that`s them pretty much relegated and not because of how they`ve played, it`s because of the idiots behind the scenes enjoying their filet steaks.
Can they appeal? If they can then the end of the season is gonna be all over the place with the bottom 4 clubs wondering what`s happening.
CoventryPar. I`m not old enough to remember but every other country deals with it. Dead rubbers doesn`t necessarily mean rubbish games. You can get rubbish matches at any point of the season. A bigger top league is what`s best for Scottish football, but it`ll never happen and we all know why. Check out what`s happening with the top Belgian league. 16 teams from next season I think. A split after 2 rounds. What the top and bottom mini leagues will be fighting for is obvious but as for the middle league, even though it might not be fair will be fighting for the Conference league spot. It`s obviously a bit unfair but it takes away making the middle league being just friendly fixtures. I like it.
15 points,I`m in shock.
Post Edited (Thu 17 Apr 21:52)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:19
having been at hampden for disciplinary stuff in the past they usually have an end of march cut off where things cant be appealed.
Not sure if there was any "pending" sanctions on them but 12 points for failure to pay players is pretty significant
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:20
1 Falkirk 33 40 70
2 Livingston 33 21 64
3 Ayr United 33 22 59
4 Partick Thistle 33 3 48
5 Raith Rovers 33 -2 46
6 Greenock Morton 33 -9 41
7 Dunfermline Athletic 33 -13 33
8 Queen`s Park 33 -15 33
9 Airdrieonians 33 -26 28
10 Hamilton Academical 33 -21 20
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:21
Great stuff, couldn`t care less about other teams fortunes.
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:22
Ohyabandit
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: rikaka
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:23
They will appeal so we need to stay focused
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:28
Only realised tonight that Jock Brown is their chairman who out with the old commentating gig is/was a lawyer himself.
Surprised anything like that happened on his watch (unless it was before he was appointed) and would imagine whatever right to appeal they have that he`ll know it inside out.
---------------------------------------------------------------
"People always talk about Ronaldinho and magic, but I didn't see him today. I saw Henrik Larsson; that's where the magic was."
Post Edited (Thu 17 Apr 18:29)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: RossDAFC88
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:28
Fantastic news - Absolutley delighted with that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:29
"Not sure if there was any "pending" sanctions on them but 12 points for failure to pay players is pretty significant"
That issue seemed to be missing from all the media reports about the stadium etc.
It was flagged up back at the start of the season.
Accies appear to have a cavalier approach to financial matters - they were scammed for a huge amount a few seasons ago, due to irresponsible management of funds.
Post Edited (Thu 17 Apr 18:30)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:30
I feel for Hamilton fans but obviously it`s a huge sense of relief.
Is there a single club that hasn`t gone through something like this under shady ownership? Feels like this sport exists in a governance vacuum for whatever reason.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:30
We could be safe by Sunday if the results go our way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Jock Par36
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:31
Let`s hope we do not blow this big massive break
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: dafc111
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:33
From the courier re the appeal...
"Courier Sport has been told that, despite reports to the contrary, Accies did not appeal the SFA’s decision before the deadline"
It does however end "it is expected Accies could contest the decision and have reportedly employed a King’s Counsel to explore their options"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:33
15 points is a lot so I`d guess that if/when they appeal it might get reduced to 12, 10 or 8, but it won`t all get expunged. No chance of that with such a severe initial punishment(touch wood) fingers crossed etc. They`ve came down hard on them so they`re f`d basically.
I think we can relax and look forward to next season now with Neil Lennon in charge and our new 3 hundred thousand quid Bulgarian striker up front banging the goals in 😆.
Post Edited (Thu 17 Apr 18:41)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Never10yairds
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:34
Absolutely delighted with that. What a belter of a result for us!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: GJS93
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:35
"So a win for us on Saturday with ardrie getting beat sees us safe ?"
a win and Airdrie draw or lose = safe
a draw and Airdrie lose = needs at least a 14 goal swing for Airdrie to finish above us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:37
The Courier says Hamilton could contest the decisions and have reportedly engaged a KC to explore their options.
Hamilton`s only lifeline is to win their 3 remaining games and hope Airdrie lose theirs. It would give them something to play for on Saturday against QP.
Post Edited (Thu 17 Apr 18:41)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Geordiepar
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:45
Given the charge sheet then I don’t think the penalties imposed are overly harsh. Even if they do appeal then I doubt that the penalty will be reduced. When the SPFL start using words about failing to act with the utmost good faith then you know they’re having the book thrown at them.
Feel for their fans.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Higgys Mohawk
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:46
That is an absolutely brutal sanction, especially at the this stage in the season.
Surely any appeal would need to be resolved quickly, because teams approach to games will be different depending on rivals points/league position etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: 87Par
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:50
Announce Lennon 3 year deal please.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:51
I`m stunned it`s as hefty a punishment as that but there seems to be pretty sound basis for it. Suppose there`s only one reason a guy like Oli Shaw signs for them and it`s cash so if they aren`t paying wages that has to be deemed an unfair advantage over other teams.
Also, the SPFL seems to be really hacked off with them, given the wording re that 1st charge.
Can`t see an appeal being successful at all.
Let`s stay up off our own backs tho.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: GJS93
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:51
they had a KC for the hearing today and when you see the first charge you can see why.
they have nothing to lose if they can and do appeal apart from the legal costs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: parsfan
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:55
Not for the first time either. 15-20 years ago, maybe more, they were deducted just enough points to make it virtually impossible for them to stay up. That was after their players went on strike. They went down then as well.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:56
I`m one of those unfortunate humans that suffers from excess empathy so it`s a weird feeling being happy for us but sad for the Hamilton fans. I`d much rather we stayed up on merit by getting enough points in our last 3 games.
How would you feel? Sitting in 7th place with 3 games to go then BOOM! 15 point deduction and almost guaranteed relegation. I`m happy that we`re pretty much safe, but I`m in no mood for celebrating.
I know that others would laugh if it was us, but I`m not them. I remember what happened to us not that long ago and it wasn`t a nice feeling.
I`d imagine that any appeal would have to happen in the next week or 2? You can`t unrelegate/unpromote a team ffs.
Post Edited (Fri 18 Apr 13:22)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Geordiepar
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:57
The not paying wages was apparently an admin issue and not the fact that they were unable to pay. Due to previous issues they are being done for trying to conceal it more than anything
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Thu 17 Apr 19:05
Zero sympathy for them for not paying players. Clearly brought in lads they couldn’t afford and thought they’d get away with it. Their fans should vent their anger at the board and not the SPFL.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Thu 17 Apr 19:18
Great to know we can’t be relegated automatically but 2nd still a possibility when you consider the fixture list.
Queens Park will now be favourites against Hamilton most likely.
If we lose on Saturday and Airdrie win we have them to play the week after.
I don’t want to even think about that scenario but it’s the Pars after all.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: coventrypar
Date: Thu 17 Apr 19:29
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot like
Date: Thu 17 Apr 18:56
I`m one for of unfortunate humans that suffers from excess empathy so it`s a weird feeling being happy for us but sad for the Hamilton fans. I`d much rather we stayed up on merit by getting enough points in our last 3 games.
ditto kozma
And we have a good track track record for tripping over on our laces 3 yards before the winning line
"If you have no kind words to say you should say nothing more at all"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 17 Apr 19:53
According to the BBC report Hamilton have 5 working days to launch an appeal.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: 87Par
Date: Thu 17 Apr 20:11
Genuinely feel we would`ve stayed up anyway. The fact this has came along is a huge bonus. Couldn`t give a flying eff about other teams. They`ve done something against the rules and thats how it rolls. Still need to treat games as if this hasn`t happened though. With Lenny at the wheel I doubt the foot will be taken off the gas. Maybe see the players playing with a bit more flare if anything.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Thu 17 Apr 20:15
To me it changes nothing other than we avoid automatic relegation. We still have the business to do of winning one game from three and would prefer it was this Saturday rather than facing Airdrie or Morton
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Thu 17 Apr 20:24
I remember maybe a decade ago visiting a financial adviser through in Hamilton and he said that it was pretty common knowledge that there was a lot of very dodgy financial goings-on at the club. I think at that time they had just sold Tony Andreu to Norwich and there was much hoo-ha over the fee which seemed a bit over inflated. From him there was plenty of allegations that the club was being used as a money laundering front for local gangsters. They then had that whole thing where they were defrauded for about a million, pretty much gave it away to someone. I think there is a lot going on behind the scenes at Hamilton that perhaps isn`t strictly above board.
Having said all that, I`m hoping Lennon has printed off the league table from yesterday, as I wouldn`t count our chickens that an appeal won`t wipe this deduction. I think we need to play our remaining games based on the table as it was. I don`t think Lennon will allow the players to ease off thinking it`s job done, as there is still a lot of work to do
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Angus_W
Date: Thu 17 Apr 20:39
Lennon should be asking for 40pts from his team…….
See who wants to be here next season.
“.........it ain’t over till the Pars score!”
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: TroonPar
Date: Thu 17 Apr 21:47
This in The Scotsman website: -
Hamilton Accies respond to charges
A statement from Hamilton Accies after the sanctions were announced read: "We are astonished and disappointed at the Tribunal decision we have received this evening. We are awaiting the written reasons whereupon the Board will meet to consider an appeal.
"We would ask that all fans continue their excellent support of the players on the pitch, and the management team in the dugout, as we enter the final stages of the season. Until any appeal process is concluded we shall be making no further comment."
Bill Kinnear
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Parsfangaz
Date: Thu 17 Apr 22:56
Quote:
Socks, Wed 16 Apr 23:32
The licensing downgrade is separate to the issues around the ground. I haven`t seen any official comment from either Hamilton or the SPFL but the talk of points deductions is to do with the licensing issue and it`s because Bonnyrigg were deducted 6 points earlier in the season when their license was also downgraded from bronze to entry.
With Bonnyrigg, the reason for the downgrade was an issue with the ground. With Hamilton, it`s not. Their ground is listed as `silver`. It`s on `first team` criteria that they`ve been dropped to entry level.
It`s late in the season, but this has been going on for ages. I found some of the earlier lists of awards from this season and most clubs in this division were initially audited in September. Some, including Hamilton and the Pars, had further reviews in November, presumably to follow up on certain issues. Most were resolved at that time, including ours being downgraded from silver to bronze, also on first team criteria. The lists showed Hamilton`s award still not having been decided at that stage, with further reviews in December. In March, theirs was finalised as only meeting requirements for entry license. One list showed it as subject to appeal, and another list was later published with that asterisk removed.
I assume the hearing tomorrow is going to deal with this. It is now a requirement of all SPFL clubs to maintain at least bronze license and so the fact that they haven`t means they have breached league rules. I don`t see how that can be contested. The SPFL now need to consider what sanction is appropriate, if any. It`s not certain there will be a points deduction and, if there is, it`s not certain it will be 6. To some degree, it will depend on circumstances.
It`s possible it will also look at the separate issues with the ground. The ground issues are to do with them not confirming their ground for next season by the deadline of 31 March, and possibly also whether they have the necessary security to play there at all. There seems to have been some admin issue that meant they returned the forms slightly late. If this is part of what the hearing is about, and it was just a matter of submitting forms a couple of days late, it would be ridiculous for there to be any significant penalty for that if they can find some mitigation for it.
My guess is that it will deal only with the licensing issue, with any ground-related matters to be looked at later if at all. The licensing issue is what needs dealt with now, as any points deductions have to be sorted out very soon. And since it`s been going on since September, there absolutely does need to be a final outcome to it before the end of the season.
🙄😆 guid story though
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Socks
Date: Thu 17 Apr 23:20
The first charge is an absolute shocker - it reads that they`ve deliberately lied or given other falsified evidence to get a transfer embargo lifted. Obviously, that led to them having advantages they should not have been entitled to in terms of the players they had available this season. The penalty for that absolutely does need to be severe and 12 points does not seem harsh at all to me.
Although a big deduction was probably justified, and I`m glad that we might benefit from it, I feel really sad for the Accies fans. There`s obviously a lot going on there, but if that was us I`d feel devastated. Imagine being [almost certainly] relegated on a Thursday afternoon as a result of a tribunal decision where you had no idea the charge was that serious. Horrible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Bertie Paton
Date: Thu 17 Apr 23:23
The appeal will go nowhere.
Hamilton fans have been calling out dodgy dealings with their owners for ages.
Their owners have screwed them over. Nowhere to go now. They are stuck with guys like Scott Robinson, 33 years old and on a 2 and a half year contract.
Real threat to the clubs future now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Socks
Date: Thu 17 Apr 23:27
`guid story though`
Most of what I said was pretty much right, though? The licensing issue was the third charge and there was a 3-point deduction for it. The issue with the ground was the fourth charge, and there was a suspended fine (so basically no sanction) for that. All pretty much in line with what I said.
The main one on the first charge was a total unknown. I certainly didn`t expect that. But I was on about the licensing and ground issues, which people were getting mixed up with.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Parsfangaz
Date: Thu 17 Apr 23:31
Quote:
Socks, Thu 17 Apr 23:27
`guid story though`
Most of what I said was pretty much right, though? The licensing issue was the third charge and there was a 3-point deduction for it. The issue with the ground was the fourth charge, and there was a suspended fine (so basically no sanction) for that. All pretty much in line with what I said.
The main one on the first charge was a total unknown. I certainly didn`t expect that. But I was on about the licensing and ground issues, which people were getting mixed up with.
Have a night aff min,
Post Edited (Thu 17 Apr 23:33)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Thu 17 Apr 23:49
From what? Sensible factual posts?
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Fri 18 Apr 00:00
SFA dealt with NW section indiscretions yet, or is that why we have been downgraded?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: DBA
Date: Fri 18 Apr 00:29
Quote:
Parsfangaz, Thu 17 Apr 23:31
Quote:
Socks, Thu 17 Apr 23:27
`guid story though`
Most of what I said was pretty much right, though? The licensing issue was the third charge and there was a 3-point deduction for it. The issue with the ground was the fourth charge, and there was a suspended fine (so basically no sanction) for that. All pretty much in line with what I said.
The main one on the first charge was a total unknown. I certainly didn`t expect that. But I was on about the licensing and ground issues, which people were getting mixed up with.
Have a night aff min,
Pot, meet Kettle.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Fri 18 Apr 04:01
Quote:
kozmasrightfoot, Thu 17 Apr 18:56
I`m one for of unfortunate humans that suffers from excess empathy so it`s a weird feeling being happy for us but sad for the Hamilton fans. I`d much rather we stayed up on merit by getting enough points in our last 3 games.
How would you feel? Sitting in 7th place with 3 games to go then BOOM! 15 point deduction and almost guaranteed relegation. I`m happy that we`re pretty much safe, but I`m in no mood for celebrating.
I know that others would laugh if it was us, but I`m not them. I remember what happened to us not that long ago and it wasn`t a nice feeling.
I`d imagine that any appeal would have to happen in the next week or 2? You can`t unrelegate/unpromote a team ffs.
Impressed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Fri 18 Apr 08:04
Massive let off but we still have work to do. Doesn`t change anything regarding the lack of quality on the pitch over the course of the season and hopefully we address that over the summer break. Hopefully we can secure safety and start planning for next season in the championship by getting Mullen signed up on that 1 year option.
c'mon the pars
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford
Date: Fri 18 Apr 08:12
I`d rather read a contribution from Socks any day of the week.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford
Date: Fri 18 Apr 08:12
Quote:
cammypar 1995, Fri 18 Apr 08:04
Massive let off but we still have work to do. Doesn`t change anything regarding the lack of quality on the pitch over the course of the season and hopefully we address that over the summer break. Hopefully we can secure safety and start planning for next season in the championship by getting Mullen signed up on that 1 year option.
Totally
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: par-ticular
Date: Fri 18 Apr 08:13
To clear a wee point up !
My partner comes from Airdrie, her brother in law supports Airdrie. Don’t ever tell them they’re part of Glasgow. Just as I don’t consider Inverkeithing part of Dunfermline!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Fri 18 Apr 08:43
It`s not a "let off" if you consider, from reading the SPFL report, not paying players, and lying about paying them to get the a transfer embargo lifted, they deserve it.
They`ve tried to cheat to stay up.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: parsfan97
Date: Fri 18 Apr 09:06
Where’s the left off exactly? We were 5 clear of automatic relegation with 3 to go. Of course work still to be done but to say we are only avoiding automatic relegation cause of this is laughable
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 18 Apr 09:12
Coincidentally, weren`t we docked 15 points in 2013 for maladministration? We haven`t really recovered fully from that and are still suffering the consequences. It`s a shame for the fans but unfortunately lots of things happen at football clubs which are beyond their control.
Post Edited (Fri 18 Apr 14:54)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: king lad
Date: Fri 18 Apr 09:28
I`m not sure what there is to appeal from a Hamilton point of view other than attempting to bring the points deduction down to give them a shot of finishing 9th. As their own fans have attested to, their ownership seems extremely shady and have finally been punished for a number of rules being broken.
It`s a positive for the pars in that it makes it now much more likely we finish above 9th but hopefully there is no complacency and the team can secure safety on Saturday with a win + Airdrie draw or loss.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Fri 18 Apr 09:40
Quote:
da_no_1, Fri 18 Apr 08:43
It`s not a "let off" if you consider, from reading the SPFL report, not paying players, and lying about paying them to get the a transfer embargo lifted, they deserve it.
They`ve tried to cheat to stay up.
This.
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: SusieQ
Date: Fri 18 Apr 10:10
We also DO have to stay up on our own merits - ok we are safe from automatic relegation with this ruling, but there`s still a play off looming if we`re not professional enough to gather some much needed points in the last 3 games so not much has really changed for us.
Be interesting to see how it effects Queens Park, in particular, who looked dead & buried before yesterday.
Airdrie still look most likely, being 5 points behind, so again unless results go with us tomorrow, nothing has really changed for us in terms of trying to beat them next week to ensure our status.
Still work to do - it`s just a (massive) helping hand.
COME ON YE PARS!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Fri 18 Apr 10:45
Quote:
da_no_1, Fri 18 Apr 08:43
It`s not a "let off" if you consider, from reading the SPFL report, not paying players, and lying about paying them to get the a transfer embargo lifted, they deserve it.
They`ve tried to cheat to stay up.
It`s a let off the fact the points are added now instead of suspended for next season. It means we only need to win 1 out of the next 3 to be safe. Especially with McCann out and kane being unreliable it makes it a more achievable target.
c'mon the pars
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 18 Apr 10:55
The way some folk go on you would think we were the only club in the Championship who benefit from Hamilton`s penalty! They took 9 points out of 12 against us. How many would they have won if they`d stuck to the rules?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Fri 18 Apr 11:14
Quote:
cammypar 1995, Fri 18 Apr 10:45
Quote:
da_no_1, Fri 18 Apr 08:43
It`s not a "let off" if you consider, from reading the SPFL report, not paying players, and lying about paying them to get the a transfer embargo lifted, they deserve it.
They`ve tried to cheat to stay up.
It`s a let off the fact the points are added now instead of suspended for next season. It means we only need to win 1 out of the next 3 to be safe. Especially with McCann out and kane being unreliable it makes it a more achievable target.
Don`t be daft. Why would be they be suspended til next season? Assume you didnt bother to read the SPFL statement?
Come back on here when you know the facts.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: GJS93
Date: Fri 18 Apr 11:26
cant remember if it was a small group of players or the whole squad that effectively went on strike over the late wages at the start of the season, what will they do after this? would it be a surprise if they all walked out and the club had to play the u18s against Queens Park tomorrow?
for us, tomorrow was a must not lose anyway, that hasnt changed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Rigger Al
Date: Fri 18 Apr 12:13
Lets get the points on our own merit ,3 wins please :):)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: MinnesotaAndy
Date: Fri 18 Apr 12:54
Very much agree with Rigger_AI.
Let`s get three wins to end this season on a high.
Aside: Judging from last year`s league prize pot, finishing 7th likely earns, in league prize money, another ~25K, over finishing 8th. Chump change, but sure buys you a lot of macaroon bars.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot
Date: Fri 18 Apr 13:31
A new day and I`ve woke up in a right kerfuffle. I`m imagining every game going against us, finishing 9th and losing the playoff. I`m away out to murder some rabbits and cut off their feet to carry around with me.
I hate my life 🙃.
In reality,we only need 1 point as that goal difference over Airdrie is rather substantial.
Pars fan.
Magpies fan.
Mens tennis fan.
Alternative rock fan.
Not a fan of much else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Ahoy!Ahoy!
Date: Fri 18 Apr 13:56
I hope we get the point we need to tomorrow and it’s done and dusted before we play Airdrie at East End.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Fri 18 Apr 13:58
Quote:
da_no_1, Fri 18 Apr 11:14
Quote:
cammypar 1995, Fri 18 Apr 10:45
Quote:
da_no_1, Fri 18 Apr 08:43
It`s not a "let off" if you consider, from reading the SPFL report, not paying players, and lying about paying them to get the a transfer embargo lifted, they deserve it.
They`ve tried to cheat to stay up.
It`s a let off the fact the points are added now instead of suspended for next season. It means we only need to win 1 out of the next 3 to be safe. Especially with McCann out and kane being unreliable it makes it a more achievable target.
Don`t be daft. Why would be they be suspended til next season? Assume you didnt bother to read the SPFL statement?
Come back on here when you know the facts.
ironic statement coming from the .net slaver.
It`s clear it`s a let off if you look at the updated table and our injury list. especially our lack of goal scorers. We still need to win 1 out of 3 remaining games to avoid 9th.
c'mon the pars
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: doctordandruff
Date: Fri 18 Apr 14:03
Normal punishment for fielding an ineligible player is a 3-0 win to the other team. We have probably suffered more than anyone with their cheating and their results should be wiped and be kicked out the league.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Fri 18 Apr 14:05
Quote:
cammypar 1995, Fri 18 Apr 13:58
Quote:
da_no_1, Fri 18 Apr 11:14
Quote:
cammypar 1995, Fri 18 Apr 10:45
Quote:
da_no_1, Fri 18 Apr 08:43
It`s not a "let off" if you consider, from reading the SPFL report, not paying players, and lying about paying them to get the a transfer embargo lifted, they deserve it.
They`ve tried to cheat to stay up.
It`s a let off the fact the points are added now instead of suspended for next season. It means we only need to win 1 out of the next 3 to be safe. Especially with McCann out and kane being unreliable it makes it a more achievable target.
Don`t be daft. Why would be they be suspended til next season? Assume you didnt bother to read the SPFL statement?
Come back on here when you know the facts.
ironic statement coming from the .net slaver.
It`s clear it`s a let off if you look at the updated table and our injury list. especially our lack of goal scorers. We still need to win 1 out of 3 remaining games to avoid 9th.
It will only be a let-off if at the season end we would`ve finished bottom or second bottom without their deduction.
Might happen but not yet.
The last bit of your post is incorrect. We can finish 8th even if we lose our last 3. Airdrie need at least 2 wins from 3. 4 points is no good to them.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
Post Edited (Fri 18 Apr 14:07)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: GJS93
Date: Fri 18 Apr 14:14
"I hope we get the point we need to tomorrow and it’s done and dusted before we play Airdrie at East End"
a win and Airdrie draw or lose = safe
a draw and Airdrie lose = Airdrie must win against us and Ayr and turn around a 14 goal swing at least to finish above us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Fri 18 Apr 14:30
Quote:
da_no_1, Fri 18 Apr 14:05
Quote:
cammypar 1995, Fri 18 Apr 13:58
Quote:
da_no_1, Fri 18 Apr 11:14
Quote:
cammypar 1995, Fri 18 Apr 10:45
Quote:
da_no_1, Fri 18 Apr 08:43
It`s not a "let off" if you consider, from reading the SPFL report, not paying players, and lying about paying them to get the a transfer embargo lifted, they deserve it.
They`ve tried to cheat to stay up.
It`s a let off the fact the points are added now instead of suspended for next season. It means we only need to win 1 out of the next 3 to be safe. Especially with McCann out and kane being unreliable it makes it a more achievable target.
Don`t be daft. Why would be they be suspended til next season? Assume you didnt bother to read the SPFL statement?
Come back on here when you know the facts.
ironic statement coming from the .net slaver.
It`s clear it`s a let off if you look at the updated table and our injury list. especially our lack of goal scorers. We still need to win 1 out of 3 remaining games to avoid 9th.
It will only be a let-off if at the season end we would`ve finished bottom or second bottom without their deduction.
Might happen but not yet.
The last bit of your post is incorrect. We can finish 8th even if we lose our last 3. Airdrie need at least 2 wins from 3. 4 points is no good to them.
It isnt a letoff at any rate.
They cheated, signed players they shouldnt have, and took points from us.
If they were minus those players we might not be in the same predicament.
The penalty fits the crime.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: RhinoPars
Date: Fri 18 Apr 14:35
Coventry Par - I have posted on this in the past a while back but here in South Africa our top PSL (Professional Soccer League) and its effective second division both have 16 teams. The PSL was set up with help from the late Trevor Phillips who I think also had a role in setting up the Premier League in England. He was CEO of the PSL for a period. One of the good things they did was to have a much more equitable revenue distribution. While winner of the PSL gets more than the bottom teams a large part of the total money is provided to all clubs in the PSL equally in the form of a monthly grant. This helps with cash flow and also helps make the league more competitive with smaller teams having a bit more of a chance of winning the league. South Africa has an advantage that there is a much bigger population but most are not wealthy and going to games is very cheap. However, the league`s success has meant that TV revenue has been steadily rising. With a 16 team top division there are only 30 games a season and you only play each team twice not four times as in Scotland.
Here the two clubs with by far the biggest support are Orlando Pirates and Kaiser Chiefs. Mamalodi Sundowns have been more successful in recent years but they don`t have the fan base that the big 2 have. The PSL was founded in 1996 and Mamelodi Sundowns have won it 14 times, Pirates and Chiefs 4 times each and four other teams have won it with Super Sport United winning it 3 times and three others winning it once. While still skewed towards the big 3 clubs other smaller sides have won the league on 6 occasions. Contrast that to Scotland and how long ago it was since Aberdeen and Dundee Utd won the league and Hearts almost did. Given their huge fan bases Pirates and Chiefs could be thought of as an OF equivalent (although without the nasty hatred between the OF fans). The standard of the PSL is reasonable and in the past, teams like Manchester United, Aresenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Crystal Palace, Aberdeen and Rangers have played one or both of the big 2 in pre-season matches. This hasn`t happened for a few years as UK clubs seem to have switched attention to SE Asia and USA where perhaps there are more commercial opportunities for them.
Given the 8 fewer games (compared to Scotland`s top division) and only playing other teams twice a season in the league how are the bigger clubs satisfied and are there lots of meaningless games towards the end of the season?
The way they have got round the meaningless games and fewer league match problem and to give something for more teams to aim for they have an annual Top8 knockout Cup competition. To qualify for the following season you have to have finished in the top 8 league positions. Often teams as far down as 12th or 13th may still have a chance to get into the top 8 with a few games to go. At the bottom the bottom (16th) club is automatically relegated. The second bottom goes into a mini home and away play off league to determine the last club who will play in the PSL the following season. The teams higher up the league are also fighting to qualify for the two African football competitions (our equivalent of Champions League and Europa League). Thus right up to the end of the season every club is usually fighting to either win the league, qualify for African competitions, Qualify for next season`s Top8 competition or fighting to avoid relegation. There are very few dead rubbers.
A search for info on distribution of revenue came up with this...
While exact figures can vary and aren`t always publicly disclosed in detail, here`s a general overview of how money is distributed to PSL clubs:
Monthly Grants: PSL clubs receive a consistent monthly grant, crucial for their operational expenses. These grants come primarily from the league`s lucrative broadcasting rights. Sources indicate this figure was around R2.5 million per month per club. (approx GBP 100,000pm)
Prize Money: Clubs also earn prize money based on their final league position. This amount varies significantly, with the league champions receiving the largest share. The prize money has seen increases over the years, with the most recent figure for the league winner being R20 million (equiv to around GBP 810,000).
Key Observations:
Monthly grants provide a stable income for all teams, helping to ensure the league`s competitiveness.
Prize money serves as an incentive for on-field success, rewarding the top-performing teams.
Broadcasting rights are a major source of revenue for the PSL, enabling them to provide substantial financial support to clubs.
It`s important to note that the financial details of the PSL, including the exact distribution model, can change over time with new sponsorships and broadcasting deals.
The thing that is bad with SA football is the "franchises" can be bought and so clubs with a decent history can sometimes be bought up, renamed and maybe even moved to a different
Post Edited (Fri 18 Apr 15:04)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 18 Apr 14:41
I think some posters are missing the point if they think Hamilton`s punishment is a lucky break for us and other teams involved in the relegation battle. Charge 1 against them states they misled the SPFL regarding the lifting of a transfer embargo. It`s fair to assume this should have been in force during the January transfer window when they brought 5 players to the club including Ricky Lamie, Scott Robinson, Connor Smith and Charlie Telfer. It could also have affected earlier transfers.
The reason for the points deduction is to compensate for the fact that they were probably fielding a stronger team than they were entitled to in games and winning points they would likely not have won otherwise. The penalty is obviously an estimate but the SPFL have deemed that, in relation to this charge, a loss equivalent to 4 wins is appropriate. Rather than `losing` 12 points, they are saying their points total was artificially inflated by that amount as a result of flouting the rules.
[Charge 1: Breach of Rules B1, E17 and E18 in relation to the failure to notify the SPFL of Remuneration Defaults in respect of six players and a failure to act with the utmost good faith in its representations to the SPFL Board regarding the lifting of a transfer embargo after previous Remuneration and Tax Defaults.
Sanction: Immediate 12 point deduction and £5,000 fine.]
ETA - Sorry, I see PARrot has made this point much more concisely whilst I was composing my post!
Post Edited (Fri 18 Apr 14:44)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: neilholland999
Date: Fri 18 Apr 15:03
Excellent post, Wee Eck. I haven`t looked into this, but presumably all the players they signed in the window have featured in most of their fixtures since then?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Lambo1885
Date: Fri 18 Apr 15:21
Quote:
wee eck, Fri 18 Apr 14:41
I think some posters are missing the point if they think Hamilton`s punishment is a lucky break for us and other teams involved in the relegation battle. Charge 1 against them states they misled the SPFL regarding the lifting of a transfer embargo. It`s fair to assume this should have been in force during the January transfer window when they brought 5 players to the club including Ricky Lamie, Scott Robinson, Connor Smith and Charlie Telfer. It could also have affected earlier transfers.
The reason for the points deduction is to compensate for the fact that they were probably fielding a stronger team than they were entitled to in games and winning points they would likely not have won otherwise. The penalty is obviously an estimate but the SPFL have deemed that, in relation to this charge, a loss equivalent to 4 wins is appropriate. Rather than `losing` 12 points, they are saying their points total was artificially inflated by that amount as a result of flouting the rules.
[Charge 1: Breach of Rules B1, E17 and E18 in relation to the failure to notify the SPFL of Remuneration Defaults in respect of six players and a failure to act with the utmost good faith in its representations to the SPFL Board regarding the lifting of a transfer embargo after previous Remuneration and Tax Defaults.
Sanction: Immediate 12 point deduction and £5,000 fine.]
ETA - Sorry, I see PARrot has made this point much more concisely whilst I was composing my post!
Scott Robinson scored what was effectively their winner last weekend.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Jeffery
Date: Fri 18 Apr 15:32
He and Ricky Lamie also scored the goals as they beat QP in February.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Fri 18 Apr 15:32
Quote:
Rigger Al, Fri 18 Apr 12:13
Lets get the points on our own merit ,3 wins please :):)
^^^^ Spot-On Rigger
It would leave a much sweeter taste in everyone`s mouth if we can get maximum`ish points from our three remaining games and hush any hint that we were "bailed out" or "saved" by the Accie`s sad saga.
DunfyDave
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 18 Apr 15:35
I think Scott Robinson has been a regular starter and Charlie Telfer a starter or a sub. Connor Smith was a regular starter too when he first joined but seems to have disappeared recently so he may be injured. Lamie hasn`t featured much but he was a late sub on Saturday.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Fri 18 Apr 17:02
Scott Robinson is a right good player, I said when they signed him that was the sort we needed in midfield
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 18 Apr 18:16
The Robinson deal was a strange one, exchanging Scott Martin, a regular Hamilton starter. I recall Robinson saying Hamilton offered a longer deal than he had at Partick. I`ve just read that Robinson, Oli Shaw and Connor Smith all have deals until 2027!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Par-timer
Date: Fri 18 Apr 19:05
Hamilton will surely appeal this, given that the twelve point element seems to be a guesstimate rather than a standard punishment (like the three point element is, or the fifteen point administration deductions for ICT and Dumbarton were). The SFA won’t overturn it, but by going high they have given themselves the option of reducing the 12 point element (by half, as the English FA has done in certain cases recently) if on appeal substantial mitigations are put forward and still having a substantial punishment. Even if this were to happen, the punishment makes a massive difference to our own position, but a reduction in the punishment would potentially mean a real dogfight between Airdrie and Hamilton.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Fri 18 Apr 22:00
I was struck by the disparity between the relatively minor nature of the fines, and the severity of the points deductions.
Is this because the fines are for administrative failings, but the points deductions are for far more serious breaches? I guess having hit Bonnyrigg hard they had to be seen to be consistent, but is there sentencing guidance on penalties for financial irregularities?
I think when we were deducted 15 points it was a relatively arbitrary amount, the intention being to make it hard but not impossible to avoid relegation. I think the authorities have codified things since.
I wouldn`t be surprised if there were considerations that 12+3 would likely be appealed and the SPFL would settle for 6+3. It is clearly unsatisfactory to have such doubt late into the season.
It`s an interesting idea to regard players signed as being ineligible and award 3-0 wins by default. I think Accies have won 14 points since the closure of the window but I haven`t checked whether the potentially ineligible players played.
Such a sanction can seem a little unfair, as some teams could get points they may not have deserved. We could also get into a long debate about improper registrations.
I see Accies say they are appealing - but the league table hasn`t been unupdated...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Socks
Date: Fri 18 Apr 23:41
On a quick read of the SPFL rules (J22 to J25), it looks like the appeal is to the SFA, rather than the SPFL.
The SFA judicial panel rules say that it can deal with an appeal against a decision of a recognised football body (the SPFL).
The judicial panel rules say that the appeal has to be lodged within 5 working days of the club receiving the decision, so presumably by end of next week at the latest, assuming written reasons received last night or today. Appeal tribunal then sets the date of appeal hearing.
Given where we are in the season, presumably it`ll be arranged quickly once the appeal is received. However, if Hamilton try to draw it out and leave submitting their appeal til near the end of next week, that likely means the appeal hearing will not be until the last week of the season which would not be great. If the appeal goes in early, maybe it could be heard next week.
I don`t think the league table could be unupdated yet. The SFA rules only allow for the sanction to be suspended once the appeal is formally received. Even then, the SPFL would have the right to ask for it not to be suspended. That all seems about procedure rather than outcome and it might be that everyone just agrees to get on with it to come to a quick decision.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Sat 19 Apr 00:09
Do you think they`ll send their appeal by post??
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Rigger Al
Date: Sat 19 Apr 00:23
There is a chance this can be oer ruled by appeal,So we need to continue as if they have the points before.And win the points we need
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sat 19 Apr 00:37
I agree but it won`t be overruled
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sat 19 Apr 06:56
Quote:
Rigger Al, Sat 19 Apr 00:23
There is a chance this can be oer ruled by appeal,So we need to continue as if they have the points before.And win the points we need
Never say never, but the SPFL has not docked Accies 15 pts on a whim. It appears that those running the club informed the SPFL that its finances were in order to have the transfer embargo imposed lifted, at a time when a number of players had not been paid.
If this is the case, they don`t have a leg to stand on. The SFA may decide the punishment is overly harsh and reduce the points deduction, but I don`t see how it can be completely quashed.
Not your average Sunday League player.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: shottslass
Date: Sat 19 Apr 09:52
A small group of Accies fans met with board members yesterday. The board are confident their appeal will be dealt with favourably (but they have to say that). The appeal date has been pencilled in for Wednesday 30th April - 2 days before the end of the league season. My husband is an Accies fan so this has been a crazy week to say the least.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 19 Apr 09:55
According to the Sun the club is due over £500k for rent on New Douglas Park which is owned by a company controlled by the previous owner of the club.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: shottslass
Date: Sat 19 Apr 10:01
The stadium is owned by Colin McGowan - he previously owned both the stadium and the football club and he was involved years ago at Raith Rovers. If local rumours are to be believed, he’s been charging the football club in excess of £30k per match for rent. The footballing side’s only source of income is match day revenues, so it’s clearly an unsustainable model.
I think the clubs only chance is a someone riding in on a white horse to save them, but McGowan isn’t going to part with the stadium, so who would want to buy only the football club? It’s sad times for one of the country’s oldest clubs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sat 19 Apr 10:16
Quote:
shottslass, Sat 19 Apr 10:01
The stadium is owned by Colin McGowan - he previously owned both the stadium and the football club and he was involved years ago at Raith Rovers. If local rumours are to be believed, he’s been charging the football club in excess of £30k per match for rent. The footballing side’s only source of income is match day revenues, so it’s clearly an unsustainable model.
I think the clubs only chance is a someone riding in on a white horse to save them, but McGowan isn’t going to part with the stadium, so who would want to buy only the football club? It’s sad times for one of the country’s oldest clubs.
That`s shocking. A club with such a long history being screwed by an unscrupulous stadium owner. You have to wonder why those running the club agreed to such an exorbitant rent. It doesn`t take an Einstein to work out that it`s unsustainable, given the club`s modest income.
Not your average Sunday League player.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot
Date: Sat 19 Apr 12:57
I`m not going to give an opinion on whether or not the points deduction will be lowered (the decision defo won`t be reversed though, that main charge shows how naughty they`ve been), because I`ll just jinx it.
3 points today please.
Pars fan.
Magpies fan.
Mens tennis fan.
Alternative rock fan.
Not a fan of much else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: par-ticular
Date: Sat 19 Apr 16:03
Shades of Third Lanark here! Followed the HiHi as a lad. Authorities allowed him to destroy the club. Hope they don’t go same way because of someone’s grievances!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Par Dan
Date: Sat 19 Apr 16:30
This will put Hamilton out the game so hopefully their appeal is successful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Sat 19 Apr 16:44
Quote:
Par Dan, Sat 19 Apr 16:30
This will put Hamilton out the game so hopefully their appeal is successful.
Virtue signalling pi5h.
How many teams cared about us when rules were applied?
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sat 19 Apr 16:47
Goal for Raith 😂
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Par Dan
Date: Sat 19 Apr 16:56
Quote:
Dandy Warhol, Sat 19 Apr 16:44
Quote:
Par Dan, Sat 19 Apr 16:30
This will put Hamilton out the game so hopefully their appeal is successful.
Virtue signalling pi5h.
How many teams cared about us when rules were applied?
I don’t know what that means .
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sat 19 Apr 17:08
Quote:
Dandy Warhol, Sat 19 Apr 16:44
Quote:
Par Dan, Sat 19 Apr 16:30
This will put Hamilton out the game so hopefully their appeal is successful.
Virtue signalling pi5h.
How many teams cared about us when rules were applied?
Exactly
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot
Date: Sat 19 Apr 17:15
As sorry as I feel for the Hamilton fans, why would any pars fan want the points deduction reversed? It would put us knee deep in poop again. What an idiotic thing to want.
They`re relegated and will just have to deal with it. A lot worse happened to us and we bounced back whilst other teams laughed at our demise. They broke the rules, and not just frivolous little rules.
Pars fan.
Magpies fan.
Mens tennis fan.
Alternative rock fan.
Not a fan of much else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Par Dan
Date: Sat 19 Apr 17:18
I’m making the point about them going out the game . Bust . Finished .
I don’t like that . If that’s virtue signalling then so be it.
Post Edited (Sat 19 Apr 17:36)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sat 19 Apr 17:23
Quote:
Par Dan, Sat 19 Apr 17:18
I’m making the point about them going out the game . Bust . Finished .
I don’t like that . If that’s virtue signalling then so be it.
Defo the reaction you’d expect from people that never get over their first gf/bf leaving them .
Nobody cared about when we went into admin……or Rangers, Hearts, Dundee, Livi, Dumbarton or ICT. Majority of other fans found it amusing and we were left to fend for ourselves (with the odd help from rivals not wanting to lose those games).
If they go into admin due to this then by all means I hope they get out of it, but I have zero sympathy for them breaking the rules and being punished for it.
As it stands they are down - they need a minimum of a 7 point reduction post appeal to be in with a chance again. Maybe they will get that to give them a slim chance. As it stands, we are effectively safe barring a big collapse in last 2.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Par Dan
Date: Sat 19 Apr 17:34
Quote:
Dave_1885, Sat 19 Apr 17:23
Quote:
Par Dan, Sat 19 Apr 17:18
I’m making the point about them going out the game . Bust . Finished .
I don’t like that . If that’s virtue signalling then so be it.
Defo the reaction you’d expect from people that never get over their first gf/bf leaving them .
Nobody cared about when we went into admin……or Rangers, Hearts, Dundee, Livi, Dumbarton or ICT. Majority of other fans found it amusing and we were left to fend for ourselves (with the odd help from rivals not wanting to lose those games).
If they go into admin due to this then by all means I hope they get out of it, but I have zero sympathy for them breaking the rules and being punished for it.
As it stands they are down - they need a minimum of a 7 point reduction post appeal to be in with a chance again. Maybe they will get that to give them a slim chance. As it stands, we are effectively safe barring a big collapse in last 2.
That doesn’t make it right. Obviously delighted that it keeps us up.
I just think we as a support should be more sympathetic. You are always going to get abuse from other supports . It’s not about them !
Think of the supporter that has followed Hamilton home and away for 30 years . Very likely they are going to lose their club.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: craigypar35
Date: Sat 19 Apr 17:35
We should be trying to get Ollie Shaw of them. Be great to get a quality championship striker who is fit for next season.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Sat 19 Apr 17:53
Feel sorry for the fans and anyone who might lose their job because of this. BUT we need all the help we can get and if this keeps us up then I will gladly take it.
c'mon the pars
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Sat 19 Apr 18:01
Some nonsense being offered up here. There were plenty fans of other clubs helped us through our difficult spell.
I was driving a taxi in Cowden at the time. I got pelters but nobody wanted us to fold.
Some folk gave me a fair few quid to put in the war fund.
Of course there were gobshytes, but every team has its share of them.
Post Edited (Sat 19 Apr 18:01)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Sat 19 Apr 18:02
Quote:
Dave_1885, Sat 19 Apr 17:23
Quote:
Par Dan, Sat 19 Apr 17:18
I’m making the point about them going out the game . Bust . Finished .
I don’t like that . If that’s virtue signalling then so be it.
Defo the reaction you’d expect from people that never get over their first gf/bf leaving them .
Nobody cared about when we went into admin……or Rangers, Hearts, Dundee, Livi, Dumbarton or ICT. Majority of other fans found it amusing and we were left to fend for ourselves (with the odd help from rivals not wanting to lose those games).
If they go into admin due to this then by all means I hope they get out of it, but I have zero sympathy for them breaking the rules and being punished for it.
As it stands they are down - they need a minimum of a 7 point reduction post appeal to be in with a chance again. Maybe they will get that to give them a slim chance. As it stands, we are effectively safe barring a big collapse in last 2.
Re nobody cared....don`t think that was the case as both us and Hearts were in the sh**t at the same time and I remember a fundraising event with shared profits between the clubs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot
Date: Sat 19 Apr 18:38
Their fans have had plenty of sympathy on here but the punishment fits the crime.
We`ve bounced back from worse,so they have just as good a chance.
You don`t even sound like a pars fan tbh, if your Hamilton dream comes true then we have a very real chance of being relegated, and who knows where that could lead.
As for you boyfriend/girlfriend nonsense, grow up. Or at least say something vaguely amusing or interesting.
Pars fan.
Magpies fan.
Mens tennis fan.
Alternative rock fan.
Not a fan of much else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Back_oh_the_net
Date: Sat 19 Apr 18:44
Quote:
Tenruh, Sat 19 Apr 18:02
Quote:
Dave_1885, Sat 19 Apr 17:23
Quote:
Par Dan, Sat 19 Apr 17:18
I’m making the point about them going out the game . Bust . Finished .
I don’t like that . If that’s virtue signalling then so be it.
Defo the reaction you’d expect from people that never get over their first gf/bf leaving them .
Nobody cared about when we went into admin……or Rangers, Hearts, Dundee, Livi, Dumbarton or ICT. Majority of other fans found it amusing and we were left to fend for ourselves (with the odd help from rivals not wanting to lose those games).
If they go into admin due to this then by all means I hope they get out of it, but I have zero sympathy for them breaking the rules and being punished for it.
As it stands they are down - they need a minimum of a 7 point reduction post appeal to be in with a chance again. Maybe they will get that to give them a slim chance. As it stands, we are effectively safe barring a big collapse in last 2.
Re nobody cared....don`t think that was the case as both us and Hearts were in the sh**t at the same time and I remember a fundraising event with shared profits between the clubs.
Ah yes the skint cup
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Sat 19 Apr 18:48
At the business end of the season, I don`t care about pretty performances....good point considering the other results.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot
Date: Sat 19 Apr 19:06
According to Flashscore Hamilton paid 200 thousand quid for big Todorov. Surely that can`t be right?
Also,I hope he`s not the rumoured Bulgarian mentioned in another thread.
Pars fan.
Magpies fan.
Mens tennis fan.
Alternative rock fan.
Not a fan of much else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: dafc-chris1
Date: Sat 19 Apr 20:13
I hope Hamilton go bust as they are a horrible little club that brings nothing to Scottish Football
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 19 Apr 22:05
Quote:
kozmasrightfoot, Sat 19 Apr 19:06
According to Flashscore Hamilton paid 200 thousand quid for big Todorov. Surely that can`t be right?
Also,I hope he`s not the rumoured Bulgarian mentioned in another thread.
He was a free transfer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Par Dan
Date: Sat 19 Apr 22:50
Quote:
kozmasrightfoot, Sat 19 Apr 18:38
Their fans have had plenty of sympathy on here but the punishment fits the crime.
We`ve bounced back from worse,so they have just as good a chance.
You don`t even sound like a pars fan tbh, if your Hamilton dream comes true then we have a very real chance of being relegated, and who knows where that could lead.
As for you boyfriend/girlfriend nonsense, grow up. Or at least say something vaguely amusing or interesting.
Grow up ffs
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot
Date: Sat 19 Apr 22:56
You grow up,you`re the one that said it.
Bring back the `Ignore user` button ffs.
Pars fan.
Magpies fan.
Mens tennis fan.
Alternative rock fan.
Not a fan of much else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Par Dan
Date: Sat 19 Apr 23:11
Quote:
kozmasrightfoot, Sat 19 Apr 22:56
You grow up,you`re the one that said it.
Bring back the `Ignore user` button ffs.
Agreed !
All in favour of bringing back the option to ignore what someone says !!!
Grow a set ffs !!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: PARrot
Date: Sun 20 Apr 02:38
Quote:
dafc-chris1, Sat 19 Apr 20:13
I hope Hamilton go bust as they are a horrible little club that brings nothing to Scottish Football hmmm! Spoken like a true Trumpist.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sun 20 Apr 07:23
The amount of sympathy on SM for a club thats knowingly broken the rules to gain points is mental! If it had been one of the OF doing it people would be losing their minds
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: thenatural
Date: Sun 20 Apr 08:21
I was scrolling through an Accies social media channel yesterday. The prevailing attitude was that they are bang to rights. Opinions seemed to vary on club custodians being incompetent, cheats or crooks. Unfortunately, fan anger seems to have led to a nasty incident at the game yesterday.
|
|
|
|
|
|
