|
|
Topic Originator: ghostrider
Date: Thu 25 Jun 14:46
Whilst Steve Clarke has undoubtedly achieved much by getting Scotland Men`s to 3 major tournaments out of 4, I think we need to ask is it time for a change?
Ask yourself,
1) would Celtic have won the league last year if O`Neill not come in. Turned the same group of players into winners.
2) would Man Utd be competing in Champions League if Amorin had remained in charge. Again new manager with same group of players, suddenly got them playing better.
You could argue teams with stability over managers have gone on to achieve wonders aka Arsenal and Man City. But I would argue even in these cases the managers improved these teams by constantly bringing in different players to take them up a level.
Steve Clarke seems to be able to get teams to play well (sometimes we get lucky) in qualification but as soon as they get to the actual tournament goes into a "safety first" approach.
Also refuses to bring in new players to challenge the existing squad, always coming up with the "I trust these guys I have". Which I think leads to these players subconsciously losing that extra competitive edge as their place is safe.
I genuinely believe a new manager could take this same group and get a better tune of them now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: SeasonedPar
Date: Thu 25 Jun 15:21
Steve Clark has been the best manager Scotland have ever had.
He’s brought in new players, not that long since Gannon Doak, Curtis, Shankland even Lewis Ferguson wouldn’t have got near the team, so a bit unfair to criticise him for not bringing in new players.
Let down by senior players, Robertson, Handley, McKenna especially, while McGinn and McTominay haven’t had a great WC. Yes he’s cautious, but last night’s team looked ambitious. Careless mistakes from different players has cost us dearly. Clark standing in the side looking as frustrated and angry as we are.
No strikers, struggling for a decent right back, poor performances. Tartan Army are amazing, no doubt they deserve much better. Just exactly who would come in and do a better job?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Parsdaft21346327964
Date: Thu 25 Jun 15:34
The best bit about a new Scotland manager is who are you going to go for the only one recently I thought oh maybe he might be good was derek mcinnes but obviously not happening now with the sfa seemingly rather 1. Either not looking outside of being Scottish to manage us or 2. Everyone turning us down if we ask there’s no better option right now
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Hunter78
Date: Thu 25 Jun 15:46
Quote:
Parsdaft21346327964, Thu 25 Jun 15:34
The best bit about a new Scotland manager is who are you going to go for the only one recently I thought oh maybe he might be good was derek mcinnes but obviously not happening now with the sfa seemingly rather 1. Either not looking outside of being Scottish to manage us or 2. Everyone turning us down if we ask there’s no better option right now
Moyes the only candidate in 2/3 years time
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: davepars
Date: Thu 25 Jun 15:47
Clark has shown us loyalty when many past Scotland managers have used us as a stepping stone or bridge to their next club.
He is not out of his depth. He was in a no win situation last night with his team choice.....too conservative, pelters, too attacking minded, pelters.
We should show the guy the same kind of loyalty he has shown our national team and not look to punt him the moment we don`t overachieve in a World Cup or Euro`s
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: WarringtonPar
Date: Thu 25 Jun 15:54
Definitely time for a new manager and new ideas. That’s two tournaments now where we have made no impact whatsoever and to suggest there is no one out there to replace him is nonsense, there are dozens of proven coaches better qualified than Clarke. We might have to look further afield but that’s no bad thing. We need a complete revamp of tactics and approach. He is the dullest individual and it’s clear he’s incapable of organising or motivating the players. Didn’t even have the nuts to face the media after the game because he had no answers. Yes individual mistakes have been the mainstay of our downfall but his blind loyalty to certain players and his tactical naivety hasn’t helped. It’s the same every tournament and all we have as fans is a barrel of what ifs. I said before the tournament started they’d be home before the postcards and I don’t think my prediction is in danger.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Thu 25 Jun 16:16
He’s signed for another three years so there’s no point thinking we need a new one.
He’s been top notch and I can’t imagine anyone else topping what he’s done.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Thu 25 Jun 16:18
Quote:
davepars, Thu 25 Jun 15:47
Clark has shown us loyalty when many past Scotland managers have used us as a stepping stone or bridge to their next club.
He is not out of his depth. He was in a no win situation last night with his team choice.....too conservative, pelters, too attacking minded, pelters.
We should show the guy the same kind of loyalty he has shown our national team and not look to punt him the moment we don`t overachieve in a World Cup or Euro`s
💯 this
Loyalty to Scotland is a very rare thing in management.
The players trust him and hopefully in a few years the new generation will do as well.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: WarringtonPar
Date: Thu 25 Jun 16:21
Quote:
buffy, Thu 25 Jun 16:16
He’s signed for another three years so there’s no point thinking we need a new one.
He’s been top notch and I can’t imagine anyone else topping what he’s done.
Buffy if you like mediocrity give him a 10 year contract. One question. If he left tomorrow where do you think he’d get another job?
His race is run, he’s tried and failed, give him a pat on the back and a big thank you for his efforts. Scotland are not going forward if he remains at the helm.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Hay Fever
Date: Thu 25 Jun 16:22
Maybe top notch, but he is not learning his lesson, last 3 major finals have ended nearly exactly the same for each tournament. Need a change of scenery. Clarke is to stubborn to the players that have failed miserably. No point qualifying if we aren’t going to turn up when we are there🤷🏻♂️
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Parsdaft21346327964
Date: Thu 25 Jun 16:27
“Moyes the only candidate”
The way they both play is the same people seem to forget that everyone at West Ham wanted moyes out for his defensive style of play and I can guarantee that moyes would want a lot more money than Clark ever good
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Thu 25 Jun 16:33
I get the feelings of disappointment, but come on…
If the late penalty shout had been given against Morocco, he’d be getting plaudits as a fekkin tactical genius.
If two schoolboy errors hadn’t given Brazil an easy two goal start - hell, even the third came from losing possession in our own half - we’d have been happy with a 0-1 loss.
Yes, I too feel that he’s too cautious, but it has got us qualified for 3 tournaments in a row - when was the last time we topped a qualifying group???
That line-up against Brazil was probably the most attacking formation for years, and without the errors, might even have paid off.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Thu 25 Jun 16:33
Who said I liked mediocrity? Get over yourself. He’s the only manager who has got us to the WC in 26 years. That’s nowhere near mediocrity.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: WarringtonPar
Date: Thu 25 Jun 16:39
Quote:
Parsdaft21346327964, Thu 25 Jun 16:27
“Moyes the only candidate”
The way they both play is the same people seem to forget that everyone at West Ham wanted moyes out for his defensive style of play and I can guarantee that moyes would want a lot more money than Clark ever good
Why not go for a foreign coach? Play a different style of football organise the team, give them more belief. Prime example by no means suggesting he is the man but look what Dick Advocaat is doing with Curacua. I honestly don’t care if we play attacking football or defensive football but build systems that can adapt and get your team ready to compete. We have nothing like that. This squad was done after the Euros why has it not been refreshed and certain deadbeats removed 🤷♂️
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot
Date: Thu 25 Jun 17:07
Hasn`t he just been given a new contract? If so it`s a moot topic of conversation. We`re just not very good. Very little skill in either area of the pitch and not one player that is remotely close to being world class.
Pars fan.
Magpies fan.
Mens tennis fan.
Alternative rock fan.
Not a fan of much else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Thu 25 Jun 17:15
Quote:
Luxembourg Par, Thu 25 Jun 16:33
I get the feelings of disappointment, but come on…
If the late penalty shout had been given against Morocco, he’d be getting plaudits as a fekkin tactical genius.
If two schoolboy errors hadn’t given Brazil an easy two goal start - hell, even the third came from losing possession in our own half - we’d have been happy with a 0-1 loss.
Yes, I too feel that he’s too cautious, but it has got us qualified for 3 tournaments in a row - when was the last time we topped a qualifying group???
That line-up against Brazil was probably the most attacking formation for years, and without the errors, might even have paid off.
^^^ LP nails it.
If VAR got involved in the Morocco match we would possibly be sitting on 6pts
We were always going to be up against it with Brazil and yes they were silly goals to concede.
Clarke has been a superb Scotland manager. He got us to these tournaments when we were mere tumble-weed blowing in the desert. He helped ignite our love for the national team again and I am willing to repay his efforts with loyalty to his cause.
In the German Euros we only secured 1pt and finished last in the group. We have improved and on a Bigger Stage.
I am always willing to hear/listen to other posts and opinions but I am genuinely quite surprised hear some passioned posts and comments without respect to where we were and where he took us.
DunfyDave
Post Edited (Thu 25 Jun 17:20)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 25 Jun 17:30
I love the way so-called Scotland fans tend to downplay any success Steve Clarke has achieved. Apparently we were lucky to top our qualifying group because Denmark lost at home to Belarus. Does that not suggest Denmark weren`t good enough to win the group, which they could also have done by securing a point at Hampden?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: thebear
Date: Thu 25 Jun 17:34
Definitely, as well as a full review of scottiish football
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Foresters Par
Date: Thu 25 Jun 17:37
Steve Clarke has over achieved with a fairly average group of players. Cudos to him.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Thu 25 Jun 17:39
I dont think that changing manager will achieve anything. Its far more complex than that. After all no manager in the past has got us into the next round of a major competition. Its back to a complete rethink about the game in Scotland, the league structure etc. Thats far more difficukt to address.
G Wardrope
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Thu 25 Jun 17:41
Quote:
wee eck, Thu 25 Jun 17:30
I love the way so-called Scotland fans tend to downplay any success Steve Clarke has achieved. Apparently we were lucky to top our qualifying group because Denmark lost at home to Belarus. Does that not suggest Denmark weren`t good enough to win the group, which they could also have done by securing a point at Hampden?
Denmark didn’t lose at home to Belarus.
And nobody is downplaying the fact that Steve Clarke, is our most successful manager in terms of getting us to major tournaments. But…..
We have flopped at those tournaments. If we get through this week, it will not be because of our own performance v Haiti, but because others don’t pick up the results required to catch us. You will most likely claim thats a positive because we got the result, but the way we qualify will be embarrassing.
Now, Clarke should get the Nations League later this year. If we don’t do well in that, he needs moved on. Bring in a fresh face pre Euros qualifiers. Take the hit.
Our stock is now much higher than previously - we’ve made 3 of the last 4 major tournaments and have Bal’on Dor nominees in our squad. A foreign manager might just get more out this squad and bring in fresh blood.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Thu 25 Jun 17:44
Well, if he gets punted now after they have just signed a 4 year deal with him then all the decision makers need to go too.
He`ll be staying..... just as he should.
Bunch of snowflakes these days chucking toys out of prams when things aren`t perfect.
Can`t make a purse out of a sow`s ear.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 25 Jun 17:57
`Our stock is now much higher than previously - we’ve made 3 of the last 4 major tournaments...`
You don`t do irony, do you?
😊😊😊
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: KirklistonPar
Date: Thu 25 Jun 18:18
The quality of Scottish football hasn’t changed that much since Craig Brown got us to the euro’s and World Cup, if anything it’s got worse, while lots of these so called small nations have massively improved. No easy games and the Euro’s or the World Cup. It’s just gutting to lose any game of football to such basic errors. Maybe qualifying is the pinnacle of what we can achieve as a small nation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: SeasonedPar
Date: Thu 25 Jun 18:32
Isn’t it a very modern thing to call for someone to be sacked? Sack the board, the manager must go, we need a new Prime Minister.
The problems go much deeper. No strikers. Lack of depth.
I really think we’re out now, but if by some fluke we get through, I hope the squad put on a performance for the fantastic Tartan Army.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: WarringtonPar
Date: Thu 25 Jun 18:40
Quote:
Indiapar1, Thu 25 Jun 17:39
I dont think that changing manager will achieve anything. Its far more complex than that. After all no manager in the past has got us into the next round of a major competition. Its back to a complete rethink about the game in Scotland, the league structure etc. Thats far more difficukt to address.
I agree but tell me who’s going to instigate that?
No one very soon I’d wager so you’re left with a national coach who doesn’t seem to have any influence on the structure or direction of our game though id like to think he’d have tried too. Perhaps someone coming from outside can be the catalyst for wholesale change.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: WarringtonPar
Date: Thu 25 Jun 18:41
Quote:
SeasonedPar, Thu 25 Jun 18:32
Isn’t it a very modern thing to call for someone to be sacked? Sack the board, the manager must go, we need a new Prime Minister.
The problems go much deeper. No strikers. Lack of depth.
I really think we’re out now, but if by some fluke we get through, I hope the squad put on a performance for the fantastic Tartan Army.
They certainly deserve one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Thu 25 Jun 19:24
Quote:
WarringtonPar, Thu 25 Jun 18:40
Quote:
Indiapar1, Thu 25 Jun 17:39
I dont think that changing manager will achieve anything. Its far more complex than that. After all no manager in the past has got us into the next round of a major competition. Its back to a complete rethink about the game in Scotland, the league structure etc. Thats far more difficukt to address.
I agree but tell me who’s going to instigate that?
No one very soon I’d wager so you’re left with a national coach who doesn’t seem to have any influence on the structure or direction of our game though id like to think he’d have tried too. Perhaps someone coming from outside can be the catalyst for wholesale change.
I think thats my point WarringtonPar. The easiest route is to fet a new manager then nothing will change. The solution is a grass roots review of where football currently stands, league structure, the youth systems, progression into 1st team football, coaching etc. Etc. Steve Clarke didnt give the ball away for the first goal. Thats on players
G Wardrope
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: WarringtonPar
Date: Thu 25 Jun 19:36
Quote:
Indiapar1, Thu 25 Jun 19:24
Quote:
WarringtonPar, Thu 25 Jun 18:40
Quote:
Indiapar1, Thu 25 Jun 17:39
I dont think that changing manager will achieve anything. Its far more complex than that. After all no manager in the past has got us into the next round of a major competition. Its back to a complete rethink about the game in Scotland, the league structure etc. Thats far more difficukt to address.
I agree but tell me who’s going to instigate that?
No one very soon I’d wager so you’re left with a national coach who doesn’t seem to have any influence on the structure or direction of our game though id like to think he’d have tried too. Perhaps someone coming from outside can be the catalyst for wholesale change.
I think thats my point WarringtonPar. The easiest route is to fet a new manager then nothing will change. The solution is a grass roots review of where football currently stands, league structure, the youth systems, progression into 1st team football, coaching etc. Etc. Steve Clarke didnt give the ball away for the first goal. Thats on players
No one can argue with your last comment but you could argue that the way he set the team up and asked them to play was entirely his doing. We don’t have one centre back who is particularly comfortable on the ball so why have them playing out from the back against one of the best frontlines in the world. I personally think Clarke is done for anyway, sadly not for the fact he’s a poor coach but for the way he handled the media after the game. He’ll get slaughtered the next time they perform as they did last night or struggle at Hampden. He has no personality whatsoever, always looking to be smart or argumentative and I think he crossed the line last night.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Thu 25 Jun 19:46
Quote:
WarringtonPar, Thu 25 Jun 19:36
Quote:
Indiapar1, Thu 25 Jun 19:24
Quote:
WarringtonPar, Thu 25 Jun 18:40
Quote:
Indiapar1, Thu 25 Jun 17:39
I dont think that changing manager will achieve anything. Its far more complex than that. After all no manager in the past has got us into the next round of a major competition. Its back to a complete rethink about the game in Scotland, the league structure etc. Thats far more difficukt to address.
I agree but tell me who’s going to instigate that?
No one very soon I’d wager so you’re left with a national coach who doesn’t seem to have any influence on the structure or direction of our game though id like to think he’d have tried too. Perhaps someone coming from outside can be the catalyst for wholesale change.
I think thats my point WarringtonPar. The easiest route is to fet a new manager then nothing will change. The solution is a grass roots review of where football currently stands, league structure, the youth systems, progression into 1st team football, coaching etc. Etc. Steve Clarke didnt give the ball away for the first goal. Thats on players
No one can argue with your last comment but you could argue that the way he set the team up and asked them to play was entirely his doing. We don’t have one centre back who is particularly comfortable on the ball so why have them playing out from the back against one of the best frontlines in the world. I personally think Clarke is done for anyway, sadly not for the fact he’s a poor coach but for the way he handled the media after the game. He’ll get slaughtered the next time they perform as they did last night or struggle at Hampden. He has no personality whatsoever, always looking to be smart or argumentative and I think he crossed the line last night.
I think thats fair comment. I am sure his comments were a bit soon after the game. You need to sleep on it so he should know better. It was a bit negative to say we are out i wonder of there was a bit of dissent among the players. McTominay seemed quite upset at half time against Morocco. I think like any other job, you get the best from people if you play to their strengths.
G Wardrope
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash
Date: Thu 25 Jun 19:57
I don’t think you can say Clarke qualifying for a 48 team World Cup and a 24 team Euros makes him our most successful manger when you consider we qualified for an 8 team Euro 92 and a couple of 16 team World Cups in the 70’s.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Jock Par36
Date: Thu 25 Jun 20:00
Yes it is time for a new Manager. Time and time again
has Clark used the wrong players in the wrong positions and
the wrong tactics. Too many times players are playing out
of their normal positions. He has stuck with players who
are simply not good enough. Hanley, Ralston Dykes and
Adams for starters. He has been loyal to these players for
far too long. Time for a Manager with a bit of foresight.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: SeasonedPar
Date: Thu 25 Jun 20:46
Quote:
Tad Allagash, Thu 25 Jun 19:57
I don’t think you can say Clarke qualifying for a 48 team World Cup and a 24 team Euros makes him our most successful manger when you consider we qualified for an 8 team Euro 92 and a couple of 16 team World Cups in the 70’s.
Steve Clarke is the best and most successful manager in modern Scottish national team history, having made history as the first manager to guide Scotland to three consecutive major tournaments: UEFA Euro 2020, Euro 2024, and the World Cup.While Clarke holds the modern record for consistency and tournament qualifications, the debate over Scotland`s all-time greatest manager encompasses a few legendary figures:Sir Alex Ferguson: Widely regarded as one of the greatest football managers of all time. Though best known for his unparalleled club success at Manchester United, he notably stepped in to manage the Scotland national team during the 1986 World Cup following the tragic passing of Jock Stein.Jock Stein: A legendary figure in Scottish football, Stein led Celtic to historic European Cup success and successfully managed the national team, guiding them to the 1982 World Cup in Spain.Andy Roxburgh: Managed Scotland at both the 1990 World Cup and Euro 1992, and boasts a 33.3% win record in major tournaments, tying him among the most successful tournament bosses.Willie Ormond: Praised for his tactical achievements, Ormond successfully steered the squad to the 1974 World Cup finals in West Germany.
Source - AI.
Post Edited (Thu 25 Jun 20:57)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Thu 25 Jun 20:52
Quote:
SeasonedPar, Thu 25 Jun 20:46
Quote:
Tad Allagash, Thu 25 Jun 19:57
I don’t think you can say Clarke qualifying for a 48 team World Cup and a 24 team Euros makes him our most successful manger when you consider we qualified for an 8 team Euro 92 and a couple of 16 team World Cups in the 70’s.
Steve Clarke is the best and most successful manager in modern Scottish national team history, having made history as the first manager to guide Scotland to three consecutive major tournaments: UEFA Euro 2020, Euro 2024, and the World Cup.While Clarke holds the modern record for consistency and tournament qualifications, the debate over Scotland`s all-time greatest manager encompasses a few legendary figures:Sir Alex Ferguson: Widely regarded as one of the greatest football managers of all time. Though best known for his unparalleled club success at Manchester United, he notably stepped in to manage the Scotland national team during the 1986 World Cup following the tragic passing of Jock Stein.Jock Stein: A legendary figure in Scottish football, Stein led Celtic to historic European Cup success and successfully managed the national team, guiding them to the 1982 World Cup in Spain.Andy Roxburgh: Managed Scotland at both the 1990 World Cup and Euro 1992, and boasts a 33.3% win record in major tournaments, tying him among the most successful tournament bosses.Willie Ormond: Praised for his tactical achievements, Ormond successfully steered the squad to the 1974 World Cup finals in West Germany.
Youve shot yourself in the foot with the first sentence of your reply…..will let you figure that one out though 😂
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 25 Jun 21:43
How can it be three consecutive when 2022 is missing?
I like Clarke. Scotland`s success is having a pretty consistent line up who work well. The downside is some of them should really be replaced so others get a chance. Some of what we saw last night would embarrass the Pars u-18s!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: thebear
Date: Thu 25 Jun 21:43
It`s interesting, how we say no point in changing the manager as he has got us to a few big championships. If that`s the case let`s all accept mediocrity and that we are awful. I genuinely believe that we should be much better. There is no point in arguing who could have done better. The point we have to try and to try we have to change. No point in stating new manager same pool of players, so do nothing.
We need all stakeholders in Scottish football to get together and change stuff
That includes the big two, it`s not about having two big teams who using a team of foreigners struggle to qualify for the big cup. We need leagues where lots of Scots, play at our highest standard, we need less third tier leagues and we needcto re invigorating schools and mentoring, we also need to minimise foreign players, if that legal.
So SFA and SPFL sort it out and in 10 years it will be better
Post Edited (Thu 25 Jun 21:44)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: stevemac
Date: Thu 25 Jun 22:03
.....and yet many yearn for us as a club to go for guys like cacares ,amade and i suppose the irish guys,gilmour etc.
way,way,way too many players from outwith scotland in our leagues.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: kozmasrightfoot
Date: Thu 25 Jun 22:49
I don`t think that any manager within our means could make us better. Too many average players.
Kids need to be outside playing football instead of playing on their Playboxes or making Ticky Tack and Yourtub videos.
Pars fan.
Magpies fan.
Mens tennis fan.
Alternative rock fan.
Not a fan of much else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: WYPar
Date: Thu 25 Jun 22:57
He deserves a lot of praise for getting us to three tournaments. It’s a great achievement. But we’ve been utter mince when we’ve arrived at each of those tournaments, which can’t be overlooked either.
There’s definitely a deeper issue at play too though. We’ve got, per capita, I believe the best attended league in Europe, and a fantastic backing for the national team. But we don’t seem to be able to do build on that passion for the game in the way other similar sized nations occasionally do and really show up. Aside from a few, we’re not bringing through real quality in key positions and those in charge need to look at why and how they fix that longer term.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: par-ticular
Date: Fri 26 Jun 00:30
You can argue all you like about Clarke ability, his tactics etc.
He didn’t make the football mistakes his players did. They are the ones who screwed it up. As we all know all the tactics in the world can go out the window if your players make stupid mistakes.
Not seen anyone on here screaming abuse at individuals, claiming they should be dismissed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu
Date: Fri 26 Jun 00:58
Quote:
par-ticular, Fri 26 Jun 00:30
You can argue all you like about Clarke ability, his tactics etc.
He didn’t make the football mistakes his players did. They are the ones who screwed it up. As we all know all the tactics in the world can go out the window if your players make stupid mistakes.
Not seen anyone on here screaming abuse at individuals, claiming they should be dismissed.
Depends ive seen 3 podcasts saying the team werent coached well enough .
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Fri 26 Jun 01:18
We entered this competition as "honest fans" understanding the competition and hoping for a 3rd place "play off spot" against the mighty Brazil and Morocco.
They got the 3rd place!
They improved on their final league position from last place in the Euros in Germany with only 1 point
We are improving.
Time to keep the faith with the current management 👍
DunfyDave
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Fri 26 Jun 03:24
Steve Clark knows the script. He rewarded all the players loyal to him throughout the last 7 years and gave them a seat at the big table but he will realise now, for a good lot of them it is thank you but goodbye.
He will stay on at least till the next Euro campaign and I expect to see a new influx of younger players he can rely on to carry on that journey.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: widtink
Date: Fri 26 Jun 03:58
He`s going nowhere in the short term so we`re stuck with him.
Admin
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: MinnesotaAndy
Date: Fri 26 Jun 07:39
We don`t have enough world class players. A change of manager won`t change that.
On another day, we would have been awarded 1 or 2 penalties against Morocco, and got the point needed to progress.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: doctordandruff
Date: Fri 26 Jun 10:03
Just cause nobody can name `off the top of their head` a good replacement doesnt mean there aren`t many out there. Who would`ve believed we would`ve got Lennon in after Tidser.
I just think Clarke is out if his depth. We are neither one thing nor the other. Floating around on the pitch, not really set up for 0-0 draws/counter attack and not set-up to control the game. Like for like subs in the 90th minute when you had to score a goal or were going out.
Going into the Brazil game only Iraq, out of the 48 teams, had less shots on target than us. That is utterly miserable and is on the coach.
His attitude towards fans and the media after a loss is a disgrace. For me, his behavior after the Euros after that performance shouldve got him the sack
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: king lad
Date: Fri 26 Jun 11:33
For me Clarke should be doing better with the players we have. Our performances are substandard considering the players at our disposal, look at some other nations at this tournament punching above their weight.
We just slowly prod about on the ball, our counter attacks are so slow that it allows the other team to get set and into position, we make very few forward runs, it`s reminiscent of watching a McPake team given how negative it is in attack.
He`s incredibly stubborn and rarely adapts to conditions happening within a game even if it`s blatantly obvious the game is going in the wrong direction. His player selections for the national team is baffling, don`t get me wrong I`m no Oli McBurnie lover but he has a goal every 2 games in the English championship which is a far better standard than what Shankland is playing against. Lennon Miller playing in Serie A not taken over Tyler Fletcher who is a youth? Continually selecting Grant Hanley who struggles to get in the Hibs team and not Dominic Hyam who is a starter for Wrexham.
He`s had his time and managed to get Scotland back to a respectable footing, with as good a crop of players as we`ve had in decades and made some fantastic memories along the way, but the overall trend of performances has been negative. Handing him a 4 year contract extension before a tournament was lunacy, indicative of the clowns running the SFA. Scot Gemmell is still the U21 Scotland manager despite being a disaster for years.
It`s okay to say thanks to Clarke for what he`s accomplished which no doubt has been terrific compared to what came before, but it`s also fair to say he`s had his time and that we as a nation need to innovate and bring new ideas to the table as we have been absolutely abysmal in tournament football
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Fri 26 Jun 12:38
^^^ agree with the above. We are too slow in moving the ball and too predictable. I got the impression that we were pinning our hopes on set pieces with our setup. What good teams do is they change the pace of the game in the final third, one touch football with alot of movement off the ball, they create space to get behind defences and create chances. We scored one goal in three games, and didnt really look like scoring any more. We lack tge creativity and vision that more successful teams have.
G Wardrope
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Fri 26 Jun 13:49
Quote:
king lad, Fri 26 Jun 11:33
For me Clarke should be doing better with the players we have. Our performances are substandard considering the players at our disposal, look at some other nations at this tournament punching above their weight.
We just slowly prod about on the ball, our counter attacks are so slow that it allows the other team to get set and into position, we make very few forward runs, it`s reminiscent of watching a McPake team given how negative it is in attack.
He`s incredibly stubborn and rarely adapts to conditions happening within a game even if it`s blatantly obvious the game is going in the wrong direction. His player selections for the national team is baffling, don`t get me wrong I`m no Oli McBurnie lover but he has a goal every 2 games in the English championship which is a far better standard than what Shankland is playing against. Lennon Miller playing in Serie A not taken over Tyler Fletcher who is a youth? Continually selecting Grant Hanley who struggles to get in the Hibs team and not Dominic Hyam who is a starter for Wrexham.
He`s had his time and managed to get Scotland back to a respectable footing, with as good a crop of players as we`ve had in decades and made some fantastic memories along the way, but the overall trend of performances has been negative. Handing him a 4 year contract extension before a tournament was lunacy, indicative of the clowns running the SFA. Scot Gemmell is still the U21 Scotland manager despite being a disaster for years.
It`s okay to say thanks to Clarke for what he`s accomplished which no doubt has been terrific compared to what came before, but it`s also fair to say he`s had his time and that we as a nation need to innovate and bring new ideas to the table as we have been absolutely abysmal in tournament football
Young Mr King has saved me typing a long post. Thanks
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 26 Jun 14:18
As well as saying `thanks` we`d have to give him a substantial payment to compensate him for the rest of his contract.
So what are the criteria for recruiting a new coach? We could look for somebodty who favours a more expansive style which might pay dividends in tournament football but will it succeed in the qualifiers? There will be quite a lot of pressure on a new coach to get us to the Euros in 2028 as all home games will be at Hampden if we quaify directly. Maybe the ideal would be to employ Steve Clarke for the qualifiers and then engage a coach just for the tournament, (assuming we have qualified)!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Fri 26 Jun 14:39
How many folk thought he was worthy of a new contract but now want him gone? I suspect not many, and this is simply a hangover of long-standing displeasure.
It is worth having a look at his record, especially the competitive matches. I think we would struggle to find that many who would have done much better.
http://www.scotlandfootballstats.co.uk/managers
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Fri 26 Jun 14:56
Giving him such a long deal prior to the WC didn’t make sense.he pushed for it but I didn’t see him linked with any club sides.
It looks an even worse decision now.
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
Post Edited (Fri 26 Jun 14:57)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: SeasonedPar
Date: Fri 26 Jun 15:44
Clarke was visibly angry during the game.
Players too timid, turning back rather than taking their man on, few shots. Lack of confidence? Lack of ability? Not playing to instructions.
I suspect he’ll ring a few changes for the Euros and include the younger lads now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Fri 26 Jun 15:52
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Fri 26 Jun 14:56
Giving him such a long deal prior to the WC didn’t make sense.he pushed for it but I didn’t see him linked with any club sides.
It looks an even worse decision now.
"He pushed for it"
Did he? I missed that....
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Fri 26 Jun 17:10
Quote:
da_no_1, Fri 26 Jun 15:52
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Fri 26 Jun 14:56
Giving him such a long deal prior to the WC didn’t make sense.he pushed for it but I didn’t see him linked with any club sides.
It looks an even worse decision now.
"He pushed for it"
Did he? I missed that....
You did miss it.
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Fri 26 Jun 17:12
The countries who were assured of a WC place (USA, CAN, MEX) could plan comfortably for 4 years, peaking in 2026. Same for those who were reasonably confident of getting through their qualifying group (the higher-ranked countries in each Confederation - although it didn`t work for Italy!)
All other countries had to fight and claw their way through difficult qualifying group matches and play-offs, so they didn`t have the luxury of throwing in youngsters and had to depend on tried and trusted players. That seemed to suit Clarke`s personality and he did the job as well as anyone could have done.
However, that mindset is hard to change when expected to thrash a team like Haiti, 88th in the FIFA rankings, and I think that affected the players too. Similar to Zaire in 1974, playing Scotland was Haiti`s "cup final", their best chance of points, and TBH they probably merited a draw. I thought our general play (howlers apart) was probably better against Morocco and Brazil, because it suited how we think of ourselves.
I think there`s a thread on here showing that on FIFA rankings Scotland were the 32nd best team at the WC, and that`s about where we will finish despite being in the same group as Brazil and Morocco. So it`s disappointing, given all the usual pre-tournament hype, but not particularly surprising.
_________________
 Support Dunfermline Athletic Disabled Supporters` Club (DADSC) when you shop online with one of 8000 firms:https://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/dadsc[
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Fri 26 Jun 17:35
I dont 5hink that changing the manager will make much difference. In terms of hos tactics you could look at it a different wsy ie. he chose the tactics based on the limitations of the squad. If you change the manager, it will be a case of getting 2 years further down the line to come to the same conclusion in terms of the players the system produces. I think what is needed is a recognition that the standard of the game in Scotland isnt good, we dont produce alot of home grown talent and what systems need to be put in place to change that. There are countries of similar size to ours that seem to be able to do that. Perhaps we can learn some lessons from them.
G Wardrope
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 26 Jun 17:44
There`s news today of a 16 year old, Harry Grierson, moving from Motherwell to Brighton. This still seems to happen quite a lot but they then get `lost`. I suppose Ben Gannon-Doak and Billy Gilmour were exceptions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Fri 26 Jun 19:18
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Fri 26 Jun 17:10
Quote:
da_no_1, Fri 26 Jun 15:52
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Fri 26 Jun 14:56
Giving him such a long deal prior to the WC didn’t make sense.he pushed for it but I didn’t see him linked with any club sides.
It looks an even worse decision now.
"He pushed for it"
Did he? I missed that....
You did miss it.
Care to enlighten me? I`m not being funny but you obviously cannot stand him so a link would be handy.
PS - don't quote Tom English. He's a knob.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
Post Edited (Fri 26 Jun 19:20)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Fri 26 Jun 19:52
https://share.google/w9WrTyMAjgpgsNX3p
Can’t stand him? That’s harsh. I just feel the team could be doing better under a more positive manager.
I’m fairly sure he said similar in an interview I listened to. It maybe where this editorial was lifted from ?
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
Post Edited (Fri 26 Jun 19:55https://share.google/w9WrTyMAjgpgsNX3p
Can’t stand him? That’s harsh. I just feel the team could be doing better under a more positive manager.
I’m fairly sure he said similar in an interview I listened to. It maybe where this editorial was lifted from ?
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
Post Edited (Fri 26 Jun 19:55)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Fri 26 Jun 20:27
Tom English was right in his debate with Dodds and McCann. If this group were capable of better, we would do better in the crunch games like these.
Our performances in the qualifiers were below par. We ground out results. Our overall performance v Denmark was rotten, where we got helped out by 3 great goals.
We are heading out, because of our own underperformance, which ultimately lies at the managers feet.
I do think it’s the last we will see of numerous players though - Gordon, Robertson, Hanley, McLean could all hang up their international boots post tournament. And some others shouldn’t feature again really.
He MUST use the Nations League this year to bleed youngsters in. Of the 26 man squad only 4 are under the age of 24 and one of them was late call up Fletcher.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Fri 26 Jun 20:57
He`s a knob and it annoys me that I help to pay his wages.
Fair doos Raymie - I think saying he pushed for a 4 year deal is a bit of a stretch. Reading that interview it sounds like a guy who`s done what was asked of him and is looking for a bit clarity about his future.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: jojo
Date: Sat 27 Jun 01:41
Get big Ange Postecoglu in
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: General Zod
Date: Sat 27 Jun 07:36
Big Ange with Duncan Ferguson as his number 2 would be something else. Never going to happen. We’re stuck with Jurassic Clarke for a while yet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Ahoy!Ahoy!
Date: Sat 27 Jun 10:58
Yes it is. Why he was given a new contract before the World Cup I don’t know.
It’s all very well getting to tournaments but what’s the point if we don’t give it a go.
Team selection always raises eyebrows.
Our 3 keepers have a grand total of around 8 appearances between them this season, why not go for Bain who played the whole season at that lot.
How Hanley, Ralston, Hendy and McKenna makes the squad is laughable.
I just don’t see how the players get up for a game with Clarke “motivating” them.
Cape Verde the smallest ever country to qualify for the knockouts a of a World Cup and it’s their first ever one.
As we all know we’ve never done it and never will so long as Clarke is leading us.
The biggest mistake I feel during the tournament was sitting back and holding onto a 1-0 against Haiti, they were there for the taking and we should’ve went all out for it and tried to get a few goals.
The probability was high we were gonna lose to both Morocco and Brazil but Haiti was a missed opportunity.
Post Edited (Sat 27 Jun 11:03)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 27 Jun 11:11
Is it his fault if we have no top-class goalies playing regularly? I don`t think Bain is top class.
Who replaces Hanley, Ralston, Hendry and McKenna?
It`s all very well to say Clarke won`t get us to the knockout stages but you`ve got to qualify first and he`s the only one to manage it since Craig Brown!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sat 27 Jun 11:39
Aside from the obvious, mainly negative tactics, we should mention his actions in the post match interviews.
His arrogance towards the tartan army and his disrespect shown towards the millions of viewers and interviewers, was wholly unacceptable and is actually part of his job. I think we got a view of the real Steve Clarke right there and then? Don’t give me the emotional argument. All managers and players are expected to front up after the game. We expect it of Lennon and he is no different
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
Post Edited (Sat 27 Jun 11:40)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Sat 27 Jun 11:42
Think we ought to be rewarding players who are playing regular football for their domestic teams where achievable, although don’t think Gunn did anything particularly wrong.
Bain is the only one who has been getting regular football as a GK.
I had a look at alternatives in our defence and was really struggling, Hyam probably the only one that springs to mind who is getting regular championship level standard football.
The problems lie much deeper than at just Clarkes doorstep, we need to scrutinise how the money is spent at grass roots level as we are struggling to develop our own talent.
Clarke does need to take a look at himself though, getting to the majors is great but to end up doing naff all - how many shots on target we had in the last three tournaments?
His attitude to the press as well post match was unprofessional.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sat 27 Jun 11:45
Berry, I think the quote that if it wasn’t for him, the fans would have been sat at home, watching on telly, is particularity arrogant
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 27 Jun 11:57
Some folk are easily offended. I don`t know what happened with that interview just after the game that was cut short. It looked like he`d been called elsewhere. The BBC said he`d be back later and he was. When did he show arrogance to the TA? I missed that.
He`s not a romantic about football. He`s a pragmatist. No one will be hurting more than him and the players. He knew we were out of the competition and said so as did Robertson and McGinn.
I think we all thought there was a good chance to get through given that 8 out of 12 third-placed teams would but as the competition got going and you saw the composition of some of the other groups you realised it was no certainty. Playing early on in the tournament doesn`t help either. No excuses though - we`re out!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Sat 27 Jun 12:20
Whether he likes it or not, one of his core duties as the Scotland manager is to face into the media.
Yes we’d lost, and was disappointed no doubt but so were the thousands of Tartan Army and everyone watching at home.
He should’ve handled it much better, both in the post interview whilst on the pitch and the post match main interview. He just came across rude.
Then as Raymie mentions, he went on about us not being there if it wasn’t for him and the current team, he had his back up, those that travelled would have spent thousands, some probably be paying back debt for a while when home and won’t regret it as was some experience from them but from a purely football performance viewpoint with Scotland, they were really poor and let them down.
Even post the Haiti game, yes a good achievement but we all knew we needed to win by more, and Clarke had his back up about that, saying that everyone been banging on about that being a must win game, and they achieved it so what’s to complain about…how a couple more goals could’ve made a difference.
As for the four year extension, thought it was premature to give him it, he’s done well to get us into major tournaments but I think as the squad is beginning to age in some areas, we need a rebuild and start bringing in more of our youth prospects and not sure Clarke is the man for that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash
Date: Sat 27 Jun 12:24
It looks like we’ve not made it to the last 32, so he’s not made it as far as Craig Brown in 1998 who made it to the last 32 just by qualifying.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Sacktheref69
Date: Sat 27 Jun 12:29
As someone who goes to most Scotland games, home and away, and was at all three World Cup games, I can`t see anyone capable of doing a better job. Maybe we just need to accept that we aren`t good enough to perform at a level to reach the knockout stages of major tournaments.
When you`re a smaller nation, your big players need to perform, and unfortunately ours didn`t. McTominay was mince in Germany, and he was the same in the USA. McGinn wasn`t much better.
The worry now is that our better players have probably played their last major tournament. We don`t have anyone coming through to replace them. We`ve had the same Under 21 manager for almost 10 years, and he hasn`t qualified for a single tournament. That is where we need to look at.
I think Steve Clarke has made us defensively solid and that`s probably why we set up as we did, but individual mistakes have cost us, and we just don`t score enough goals to get ourselves back into games. There was a clamour to get rid of Hanley, but his replacement tried to play it out from the back against a striker from Real Madrid that sums us up.
This is Andy Tod`s world and we are lucky to live in it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 27 Jun 12:35
I don`t know if the TA are insulted by his remarks but from the clips I`ve seen and heard of supporters who are in the States being interviewed, they are a lot more tolerant and understanding of the results and performances than those of us watching from home. Maybe they`re used to it or maybe they put more store on just being there, enjoying the experience. A friend and I drove all the way to the south of Spain for the 1982 WC and had no regrets.
Unfortunately when things go wrong in football everything gets criticised from team and squad selections, tactics, substitutes to the way the manager conducts himself at interviews. It`s the same at the Pars!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Parsweep
Date: Sat 27 Jun 12:48
Aye , it`s time . It`s been time for a few years now . He`s been the luckiest manager we`ve had in my lifetime (70 yrs) . When you look at some of the nations who are through . Iran , Cape Verde, with a population a tenth of ours !
I know we had Morocco and Brazil , but we had Haiti up first . Which makes his decision to sit in for a 1-0 victory all the more galling . It seems everyone but him knew goal difference could be crucial .
Get someone younger in . The rest of the world are leaving us behind , everyone seems to move the ball back to front so much quicker than us 😔
Bobvo
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sat 27 Jun 14:12
He has been absolutely slaughtered by pundits and media personnel for his attitude towards Eilidh Barbour post match, and rightly so.
As for making us defensively solid, he has, but every single one of his go to guys is prone to an error. Picking players like Hanley, Mckenna etc whilst leaving players like Welsh, Halkett, Milne at home shows his arrogance. These guys haven’t even been close to call ups despite being in 2 over performing teams all season.
And let’s not get started on the attacking mindset of the team…….1 deflected goal in 3 games, to add to our 2 goals in 3 games at the last Euros, and 1 goal in 3 games at the one before that, is shocking. End of story.
Fans have spent 10s of thousands to go support the team. And millions at home have most likely sacrificed time to watch on TV at all hours this summer. Its simply not good enough 🤷🏻♂️
Post Edited (Sat 27 Jun 14:13)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 27 Jun 14:42
At what point should he have introduced Welsh, Halkett and Milne - during the qualifiers or after we had qualified?
Aye, I`m really annoyed to have `sacrificed` all that time watching the World Cup. You watch football, you hope for the best but seldom get it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford
Date: Sat 27 Jun 16:32
Important to remember we`re all in charge of our own emotions. I`m as gutted as the next guy to be out in the first round but to torture myself at a post match interview where a man has just watched the pinnacle of his career go down the pan and is understandably gutted...nah...i choose to not get annoyed at that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Sacktheref69
Date: Sat 27 Jun 16:46
Quote:
Dave_1885, Sat 27 Jun 14:12
He has been absolutely slaughtered by pundits and media personnel for his attitude towards Eilidh Barbour post match, and rightly so.
As for making us defensively solid, he has, but every single one of his go to guys is prone to an error. Picking players like Hanley, Mckenna etc whilst leaving players like Welsh, Halkett, Milne at home shows his arrogance. These guys haven’t even been close to call ups despite being in 2 over performing teams all season.
And let’s not get started on the attacking mindset of the team…….1 deflected goal in 3 games, to add to our 2 goals in 3 games at the last Euros, and 1 goal in 3 games at the one before that, is shocking. End of story.
Fans have spent 10s of thousands to go support the team. And millions at home have most likely sacrificed time to watch on TV at all hours this summer. Its simply not good enough 🤷🏻♂️
We can`t really tell how suited to international football these guys would be so we can`t really say it`s arrogant not picking them. Steve Clarke has his go to players and has been his mantra since he came in. I don`t think there was any player not selected that would change the fate we suffered. I do agree as a nation we just aren`t good enough.
This is Andy Tod`s world and we are lucky to live in it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Sat 27 Jun 16:58
In order to improve at this level we need to be addressing every available small percentage advantage we can step-up to and this involves playing to our strengths whilst understanding and acknowledging our weaknesses.
No.1 on my list is to address how the game is set-up in Scotland. The league structure, finances and the half-century monopoly dominated by the two Glasgow teams.
Tough, brave decisions need to be made to benefit the Scottish game and encouraged to advance and promote Scottish youth through the ranks. Quotas perhaps need to be dictated to encourage the % of Scots and youth that teams must include
Edited to mention that this may infringe upon certain protection laws.
DunfyDave
Post Edited (Sat 27 Jun 17:03)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Sacktheref69
Date: Sat 27 Jun 17:46
Quote:
DunfyDave, Sat 27 Jun 16:58
In order to improve at this level we need to be addressing every available small percentage advantage we can step-up to and this involves playing to our strengths whilst understanding and acknowledging our weaknesses.
No.1 on my list is to address how the game is set-up in Scotland. The league structure, finances and the half-century monopoly dominated by the two Glasgow teams.
Tough, brave decisions need to be made to benefit the Scottish game and encouraged to advance and promote Scottish youth through the ranks. Quotas perhaps need to be dictated to encourage the % of Scots and youth that teams must include
Edited to mention that this may infringe upon certain protection laws.
Let`s be real here. We all know what needs to be done, but in reality, it won`t happen.
Back to the OP`s question: is it time for a new manager?
Under Strachan, we scored goals, but we struggled to keep them out and didn`t qualify for anything. Under Clarke, he`s made us much harder to play against when everyone sticks to the system. Individual errors and players not performing to their usual standards (like McGinn and Mctominay) aren`t something the manager can control. McTominay gave the ball away far too often against Brazil. That`s on the player, not the manager.
Could Clarke have managed the game better? Yes, probably. But we also need to take a step back and recognise that, as a group, we simply underperformed. That`s the biggest reason we`re all flying home before the knockout stages. Unfortunately we aren`t good enough to take the next step.
This is Andy Tod`s world and we are lucky to live in it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: thebear
Date: Sat 27 Jun 17:46
It`s interesting the view that questions whether it was Clarke fault that a defender made the mistake, or we`ve not got quality players etc.
But it is absolutely is his fault to select a team that does better and does not make silly mistakes, the dont make these mistakes in their own league, albeit less quality players, but it`s not difficult to train players to not mess around in your own box, with good players near by. It`s not difficult to select players who are two footer, in that they need to kick the ball in another direction, that one of the reasons we pass backwards so often, it`s not difficult to make players move in to empty spaces to relieve the ball, or to lose it then because they have no skill or one good foiot to hold on to it. It`s not difficult to select a team that has more than one chap up front.
These are all the reasons Clarke has a massive part of the blame, but what Clarke must also do is pressurise spfl and sfa into changing scotland football structure, because at the moment it`s crap and so focused on the OF.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Sacktheref69
Date: Sat 27 Jun 17:49
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Sat 27 Jun 11:45
Berry, I think the quote that if it wasn’t for him, the fans would have been sat at home, watching on telly, is particularity arrogant
He said if it wasn`t for the players not him.
This is Andy Tod`s world and we are lucky to live in it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: par-ticular
Date: Sat 27 Jun 17:52
I worked for our Alex Smith’s dad, Bill, who also played professional football.
We used to discuss his time playing. The worst time to be interviewed he said is after you just lost, and if you played badly. So understand Clarke. You just wanted to hide.
Clarke didn’t make the mistakes on the field the players did that. We were playing teams that were comfortable playing in the heat.
Gutted yes, but we weren’t playing diddy teams. Losing goals in the first 10 minutes is what killed us. We were on the back foot immediately.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: SusieQ
Date: Sat 27 Jun 18:35
He`s just signed a new 4 year contract so he`s not going anywhere whether we like it or not.
Yes he`s done well and got us to 3 major championships and league A in the Nations League but we`ve also had A LOT of utter keech along the way.
The performances in all 9 finals games have been pretty woeful.
Some of the WC qualifiers in particular were awful to watch, but we somehow got the result and we were of course helped by Belarus that set up the momentous night in November.
Spain & Denmark, maybe Norway away are the only highlights I can think of in the last few years.
I`m not calling for his head but I wouldn`t be particularly upset if he went.
Question is - who comes in if / when he does go 🤔
COME ON YE PARS!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: neilholland999
Date: Sat 27 Jun 18:55
Jurgen Klopp would be an exciting appointment 😉🤣
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Sat 27 Jun 18:56
Susie-Q nails it.
Painful to watch but he got us there and ultimately "who is out there that can repeat and improve on this"?
DunfyDave
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Sat 27 Jun 18:57
Quote:
neilholland999, Sat 27 Jun 18:55
Jurgen Klopp would be an exciting appointment 😉🤣
^^^ Had my full both as a Scotland and Pars fans with German management 😁😁
DunfyDave
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sat 27 Jun 18:58
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Sat 27 Jun 11:45
Berry, I think the quote that if it wasn’t for him, the fans would have been sat at home, watching on telly, is particularity arrogant
It would be arrogant if it was true.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Sacktheref69
Date: Sat 27 Jun 20:14
Quote:
da_no_1, Sat 27 Jun 18:58
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Sat 27 Jun 11:45
Berry, I think the quote that if it wasn’t for him, the fans would have been sat at home, watching on telly, is particularity arrogant
It would be arrogant if it was true.
Remember this is .net let`s not let facts get in the way of a moan.
This is Andy Tod`s world and we are lucky to live in it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sat 27 Jun 20:18
My mistake. He was talking about this group of players. Still an arrogant comment to make and really no need to say that.
Some will support him, others won’t. Let’s leave it at that
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
Post Edited (Sat 27 Jun 20:36)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sat 27 Jun 20:24
Quote:
neilholland999, Sat 27 Jun 18:55
Jurgen Klopp would be an exciting appointment 😉🤣
Go for Martinez, I believe he has Scottish connections, Austin Mcphee beside him, he was even at the Alhambra pantomime recently!🤔
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Sacktheref69
Date: Sat 27 Jun 20:39
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Sat 27 Jun 20:18
My mistake. He was talking about this group of players. Still an arrogant comment to make and really no need to say that.
Some will support him, others won’t. Let’s leave it at that
How is it arrogant? It`s fact.....
This is Andy Tod`s world and we are lucky to live in it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sat 27 Jun 20:55
Like I said. Let’s leave it.
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Sat 27 Jun 20:58
Quote:
par-ticular, Sat 27 Jun 17:52
I worked for our Alex Smith’s dad, Bill, who also played professional football.
We used to discuss his time playing. The worst time to be interviewed he said is after you just lost, and if you played badly. So understand Clarke. You just wanted to hide.
Clarke didn’t make the mistakes on the field the players did that. We were playing teams that were comfortable playing in the heat.
Gutted yes, but we weren’t playing diddy teams. Losing goals in the first 10 minutes is what killed us. We were on the back foot immediately.
💯 correct and it doesn’t matter what level of football you manage at.
When I did it, I didn’t want to speak to anybody for quite some time after a defeat in a match you spent so much time preparing for.
It showed he cares and puts himself as part of the squad/group rather than being the big shot.
The big players let us down this tournament more than anyone
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Polt
Date: Sat 27 Jun 21:24
Agree with above. Steve Clarke has worked wonders for our national team. Yes he is frustrating in some of his picks and his tournament style needs improvement. Thing is now he’s been to 3 and restored Scotland as a viable option to players who can play for us and not their birth nation.
His loyalty to players that don’t quite stand out or aren’t playing regular first team football needs changing. We had 3 goalies not first choice at their clubs. Tyler fletcher played only a half for man united got called up - not saying he is pants but is he World Cup fit. There is others that would have been more deserving.
After all that - I still genuinely believe he can takes us further forward than we are now and he has taken us from never getting to tournaments to 3 out of 4. In return it gives teams here better exposure and more of a chance to sign promising prospects
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash
Date: Sat 27 Jun 21:36
Quote:
Sacktheref69, Sat 27 Jun 20:39
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Sat 27 Jun 20:18
My mistake. He was talking about this group of players. Still an arrogant comment to make and really no need to say that.
Some will support him, others won’t. Let’s leave it at that
How is it arrogant? It`s fact.....
It’s not a fact though. We’ve seen Scotland flags at every tournament that we haven’t qualified for, and Scottish journalists have covered those tournaments .
So to say ‘you’re only here because we’ve brought you here’ is downright disrespectful to the people who pay his wages.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Sun 28 Jun 00:23
Heading home tomorrow as we are now officially out. Been a great trip and enjoyed every moment. Football is football and them is the breaks. You can torture yourselves all you need or want to. I was happy I was here and my life goes on. Anything else causes stress beyond what I can control. Had a blast and see you at East End in few weeks time for another roller coaster of a season.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sun 28 Jun 00:45
It is now.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: BlackLight
Date: Sun 28 Jun 01:06
He`s made the decision for you.
Well played SC.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Sun 28 Jun 01:58
Quote:
da_no_1, Sun 28 Jun 00:45
It is now.
^^^^ They think it`s all over
DunfyDave
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sun 28 Jun 02:43
Quote:
DunfyDave, Sun 28 Jun 01:58
Quote:
da_no_1, Sun 28 Jun 00:45
It is now.
^^^^ They think it`s all over
😆
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic Originator: Johanisk
Date: Sun 28 Jun 07:36
Quote:
SusieQ, Sat 27 Jun 18:35
He`s just signed a new 4 year contract so he`s not going anywhere whether we like it or not.
Yes he`s done well and got us to 3 major championships and league A in the Nations League but we`ve also had A LOT of utter keech along the way.
The performances in all 9 finals games have been pretty woeful.
Some of the WC qualifiers in particular were awful to watch, but we somehow got the result and we were of course helped by Belarus that set up the momentous night in November.
Spain & Denmark, maybe Norway away are the only highlights I can think of in the last few years.
I`m not calling for his head but I wouldn`t be particularly upset if he went.
Question is - who comes in if / when he does go 🤔
Just shows that ye never know in football!
|
|
|
|
|
|
