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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 12 Mar 11:40
He said looking at Diane Abbott makes you ‘want to hate all black women’. He has issued a statement saying he accepted he was “rude” about Abbott in a private meeting, but that “his criticism had nothing to do with her gender nor colour of skin”.
He cites all sorts of practices at his businesses which prove he is not racist or sexist but the offending statement seems to me to be the epitome of both racism and sexism!
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Tue 12 Mar 12:11
Worst than that Wee Eck, he also said she should be shot!
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 12 Mar 12:24
You`re right, TOWK.
`It’s like trying not to be racist but you see Diane Abbott on the TV and you’re just like, I hate, you just want to hate all black women because she’s there, and I don’t hate all black women at all, but I think she should be shot.`
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Tue 12 Mar 12:27
The comments (as reported) are clearly racist, sexist and totally out of order
I’ll keep to see rushaks response, given his lecture recently on words matter etc - and would also like to know what the guy is getting for his £10m?
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 12 Mar 12:43
A spokesman for the PM said what Hester said was `unacceptable` but wouldn`t be drawn on whether it was racist. As to what he got for his money - Hester, a businessman from West Yorkshire, runs a healthcare technology firm, the Phoenix Partnership (TPP), which has been paid more than £400m by the NHS and other government bodies since 2016, primarily to look after 60m UK medical records. He has profited from £135m of contracts with the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) in less than four years.
It could be purely coincidental of course!
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Tue 12 Mar 12:47
Sounds like he got a bargain!
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Tue 12 Mar 15:17
Surely the £10 million donation had anything to do with the NHS contract?🤔💩💩💩
Amazingly the BBC news failed to mention his involvement in the NHS!🤬
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Tue 12 Mar 16:42
I would shoot the rich white Tory B@stard :-))
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 12 Mar 17:07
Hester has made a statement today in his defence. The first paragraph is what he claims he said to staff at the same meeting where he made the comments about Dianne Abbott :-
“For me, racism is a hatred and a fear of the other. For me, it is exactly the same as homophobia - it’s not limited to the colour of your skin, it is not limited to religion, it can just be the country next door. It can be northerners and southerners, which we have here.”
I can confirm that this is an accurate reflection of my view that hatred of others based on race, religion, gender, sexuality or geography is odious and disgusting and that racism - in particular - is a poison that has no place in public life.
The UK benefits immensely from the rich diversity of people - like my parents - who had roots in another land, religion and culture. We should celebrate those differences which have made us the world’s most successful multi-ethnic, multi-faith democracy. And we should have the confidence to discuss our differences openly and even playfully without seeking to cause offence.
I`m sure I`m not the only one wondering how these comments are compatible with what he said about Dianne Abbott which he hasn`t denied apparently.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Tue 12 Mar 18:15
You have to wonder about some Tory ministers whose parents were immigrants, must be in their DNA!🤔
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 12 Mar 19:29
Downing Street has finally conceded that the statement was racist but PMQs should be interesting tomorrow.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 12 Mar 21:04
So a week ago we had Sunak call a special meeting to tell us about the threat of hatred from the likes of Galloway but his party are taking money from scum like Hester? People in glass houses...
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Tue 12 Mar 22:14
Sunak is unbelievable, how often have we heard him try to weasel out of answering if a statement from one or his party/ backers is racist or not. Those words are clearly racist. Why can`t he just think for himself and say what it is. To say someone should be shot is disgraceful as well.
The tories and their supporters are a vile bunch. They are constantly using the language of hatred and division. They are trying to incite trouble, divide and conquer tactics. They will be the first to complain the next time a tory MP gets stabbed to death.
They will reap what they sow
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Tue 12 Mar 22:55
Quote:
red-star-par, Tue 12 Mar 22:14
Sunak is unbelievable, how often have we heard him try to weasel out of answering if a statement from one or his party/ backers is racist or not. Those words are clearly racist. Why can`t he just think for himself and say what it is. To say someone should be shot is disgraceful as well.
The tories and their supporters are a vile bunch. They are constantly using the language of hatred and division. They are trying to incite trouble, divide and conquer tactics. They will be the first to complain the next time a tory MP gets stabbed to death.
They will reap what they sow
If you think the Tories and their supporters are vile just wait and see if any Reform candidates actually get a seat after next election. Their only current MP is Lee Anderson, and we all know what his views are like!
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Wed 13 Mar 09:09
I noticed from the Beeb report that it was Sunak`s spokesperson who admitted it was racist remarks
As wee eck says PM`s question time will be interesting .. If asked the question will Sunak admit it or will he flannel on about half inflation.. more police .. more nurses .. more people in work .. yawn
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Wed 13 Mar 11:02
Oi Parboiled, where are you? You seem strangely absent from this thread
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Wed 13 Mar 11:27
Of course they would :-
A Tory minister has said his party would take another £10m from a donor who allegedly made comments about Diane Abbott that No 10 called "racist".
Donor Frank Hester apologised after reportedly saying the ex-Labour MP made him want to "hate all black women".
Andy Street, a Tory mayor, told the BBC that he would return the cash.
Post Office minister Kevin Hollinrake however said that his party would accept more because Mr Hester`s apology demonstrated he was not racist.
The disagreement within the party comes as Downing Street faces calls to return the money.
Hollinrake another Tory Turd
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 13 Mar 11:45
There seems to be a view held by some that it is possible to make racist remarks without being a racist. I don`t get that.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Wed 13 Mar 13:04
Never even got the chance to speak .. shocking really
A shake of the head from Diane Abbott as the Speaker calls the final question - indicating she will not be called.
The Commons has had an extensive conversation about Abbott, without hearing from the Independent MP herself — despite her clear desire to speak.
As PMQs finishes, both Stephen Flynn, the SNP Westminster leader, and Keir Starmer have gone to the back of the chamber to talk to her, as have a succession of Labour backbenchers.
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 13 Mar 13:44
The Scottish Tories have come out with a statement on Hester`s donation :-
`These comments were racist and wrong. The Scottish Conservative Party has never accepted a donation from Frank Hester and the UK Conservative Party should carefully review the donations it has received from Hester in response to his remarks.`
So the Scottish Tories have now taken a different line from UK HQ on this as well as on the extension of the windfall tax on oil companies. Could this be the start of an INDEPENDENT Scottish Tory party?
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Wed 13 Mar 14:37
Quote:
wee eck, Wed 13 Mar 13:44
The Scottish Tories have come out with a statement on Hester`s donation :-
`These comments were racist and wrong. The Scottish Conservative Party has never accepted a donation from Frank Hester and the UK Conservative Party should carefully review the donations it has received from Hester in response to his remarks.`
So the Scottish Tories have now taken a different line from UK HQ on this as well as on the extension of the windfall tax on oil companies. Could this be the start of an INDEPENDENT Scottish Tory party?
Trying to distance themselves and gain favour before a general election, business as usual after!
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Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Wed 13 Mar 17:24
Quote:
wee eck, Wed 13 Mar 11:45
There seems to be a view held by some that it is possible to make racist remarks without being a racist. I don`t get that.
This will depend on your definitions of racism and racist.
I’m sure plenty of people would claim not to be racist yet would espouse racist views or say things that are racist without realising it. And that’s before you consider grey areas, if I can use that term.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Wed 13 Mar 18:47
You`ll have to explain that one further MT as I`m maybe genuinely misunderstanding you. If someone espouses racist views then they are racist. That isn`t however a life sentence. They can reflect on and change their views.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Thu 14 Mar 12:28
Just when you thought you had seen it all from the Tories....
What an odious bunch are running the country
and that **** that`s the PO minister, oh, the irony
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Thu 14 Mar 12:29
has anyone seen Parboiled?
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 14 Mar 13:22
All the controversy over Hester`s comments has deflected from the other issue - the benefits that accrue to donors from their gifts. It sums up the Tories for me and why I would never vote for them; they look after the people best able to look after themselves.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Thu 14 Mar 13:36
Has certainly put the Science Ministers fine on the back burner!
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 14 Mar 15:07
Apparently he donated another £5m recently which hasn`t been declared yet.
In other news MPs have been awarded a pay rise of 5.5% from April taking them to £91,346 pa.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Fri 15 Mar 18:02
So he was also involved in the Covid vaccine roll out as well, through the company Phoenix!🤔💰💰💰
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Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Tue 19 Mar 17:23
TOWK
Maybe that was one of those sentences that made more sense in my head than on the page.
I think the area is a philosophical minefield, so possibly I should have steered well clear of the matter,
However, I think I’m saying that, in my view, racism lies on a spectrum. Some people say that you either are racist, or you are not. I disagree – I think there is a difference between being knowingly racist and being unwittingly racist, and being persistently racist and occasionally racist. (You could apply this distinction to many things of course).
To give you an example, a few years ago Jeremy Corbyn gave his endorsement to the artist of an antisemitic trope. He withdrew this endorsement and admitted he had been in error. Did this make him an antisemite? I would say no. You may disagree.
But if someone genuinely espouses racist views I think calling them racist is fair enough.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Wed 20 Mar 08:36
There is no racism spectrum. You either are or are not. There are no gray areas. Only people with racist tendencies want there to be a spectrum.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 20 Mar 09:57
Quote:
moviescot, Wed 20 Mar 08:36
There is no racism spectrum. You either are or are not. There are no gray areas. Only people with racist tendencies want there to be a spectrum.
To me the nuance is that someone can be racist today and not racist tomorrow. Views can change rapidly. The spectrum would relate to how consistently racist someone is.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Wed 20 Mar 16:00
Being knowingly racist is morally worse than being naively racist, but both are just as racist.
Both negatively impact individual lives as well as society as a whole.
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Wed 20 Mar 18:36
Absolute rubbish. There is absolutely no spectrum.
You can`t be a racist one day and then move along your imaginary spectrum the next day and not be.
Saying there is a spectrum is a cop out.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Wed 20 Mar 18:51
You can be racist one day and then the next not be. Unless you are saying that being racist isn`t an act of will and is a genetic condition.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 20 Mar 21:08
Moviescot, by your own definition, someone can be classed as racist for making a remark like "I think [insert race here] are a bunch of wallopers." Are you suggesting that person can`t the very next day reflect on their words and think "I was a bit of an idiot saying that?".
If so, I can guarantee pretty much all of this forum would be classed as racist, bigoted, homophobic, transphobia etc etc based on comments they may have made years ago.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Wed 20 Mar 21:14
Being racist one day and not the next is basically the definition of a binary, on/off, situation.
i.e. you are both right: yes, racists can be "cured" and, no, racism isn`t a spectrum.
"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Wed 20 Mar 22:13
Quote:
Wotsit, Wed 20 Mar 16:00
Being knowingly racist is morally worse than being naively racist, but both are just as racist.
Both negatively impact individual lives as well as society as a whole.
Surely being naively racist could be something like an old white woman saying to a black woman "you you have lovely thick hair, can I touch it? Where are you from?".
Surely that`s not "just as racist" as someone attending a EDL march and then booting the p!sh out of someone due to their colour.
One of these forms of racism must effect the victim more than the other and so is not `just as racist" as the other?
Racism must have a spectrum, ranging from a racist joke to a racist murder and everything in between
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 20 Mar 22:34
It comes down to intent. An older person using an incorrect term is still making a racist remark but likely isn`t racist. Someone actively supporting or participating in events run by questionable groups is likely a massive and consistent racist. Only today it was revealed that a Reform UK candidate has a long history of making racist remarks on social media. You could argue they are reformed (no pun intended) but, given their long history of racist behaviour, it appears unlikely.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Thu 21 Mar 07:24
My 95yr old mother still comes out with comments that are hardly PC, but that`s just her age and generation she grew up in.
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Thu 21 Mar 08:19
So intent seems to be the primary and most obvious driver - however we all have to recognise that many a hurtful comment has been make out of ignorance or habit…
although I think we all should think about what we’re saying and it’s potential impact today, regardless of the current social norms
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