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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Thu 25 Apr 09:15
As above.
Emergency meeting called this morning at Bute House and by 9am the coalition government has collapsed.
Are the SNP really starting to unravel in Scotland? Are we about to see Labour push back in to power?
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 25 Apr 09:23
Let`s hope so. It would be best for Scotland and I say that as someone who has never voted Labour. It`s not good for the country for a government to simply be re-elected regardless of performance and nobody can reasonably argue that the snow performance over the last few years has been anything other than woeful. The question is do enough people love Scotland more than they love the notion of independence?
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Thu 25 Apr 09:41
Labour in?
No thanks, just following the Tory mantra!
Would be run from London 🤬
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 25 Apr 09:45
`It`s not good for the country for a government to simply be re-elected regardless of performance...`
Some of us would say that about the Westminster elections. The last one was effectively called as a referendum on Brexit.
My impression is that a lot of SNP voters have become disaffected with the SNP because of the agreement with the Greens and their perceived undue influence on government policies so I don`t see that it`s necessarily an electoral disaster for the SNP.
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Thu 25 Apr 10:00
Perhaps those creeps Harvie and Greer rubbishing the Cass report had something to with it.
Lorna Slater will be sadly missed from the front bench though, such raving bonkeroony brightened up many a dull day
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 25 Apr 11:35
My view would be the Greens had far too much sway and lost their way with too much focus on non environmental issues. They have a great local rep (don`t recall her name but she`s a Pars supporter) but the Green leadership seems to have gone for a very narrow focus that disregards the bigger societal issues in Scotland.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 25 Apr 12:09
I assume then that the SNP were also ignoring these greater societal issues as I`m sure the Greens would have gotten fully behind any initiatives to tackle them.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Thu 25 Apr 13:38
don`t know what the greens were playing at TBH...
their message to SNP was along the lines of, we don`t know if we want to stay in gov. with you given recent announcements - so you just sit in limbo for a few weeks while we decide!?!?
no wonder SNP got together quick smart and told them to do one!
edited to say it`s a bit dissapointing as I agree with green`s objectives and have voted for them in past
Post Edited (Thu 25 Apr 13:44)
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 25 Apr 14:04
So the Tories are going to force a vote of no confidence in Yousaf. If he loses that isn`t a General Election likely in which case the Tories would probably lose seats. Isn`t a vote of confidence a bit of a risk of an o.g. for Douglas Ross?
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Thu 25 Apr 14:42
I think this is more to do with last week`s event.
I`d be inclined to think our leader is trying to rid himself of the deserved title "continuity candidate"
No doubt we`ll find out in due course
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 25 Apr 15:19
I wasn`t suggesting it would affect him personally, I was questioning the tactics. Help ma Boab if Ash Regan is the most powerful politician at Holyrood.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 25 Apr 16:57
Ash Regan 🤣 You`ll need to let us know when your Fringe show is on, Tenruh. That was a cracker.
An election in the near future would be great news for Labour. Terrible news for the Tories though.
To give additional context to my earlier comments, they relate to the Greens moving their focus to be more around LGBTQ concerns. These are valid concerns but in my opinion it feels odd that these are raised primarily by the Greens rather than being seen as issues for ALL parties to resolve. The issues also feel minor in comparison to much bigger problems with premature death, poverty and substance abuse. Of course, a big part of this is the narrative coming from the press so I admit my view is likely somewhat biased by this.
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Thu 25 Apr 17:24
I agree with many of the policies of the Greens with regard to environmental issues and have voted for them in the past, normally as my second choice. I do feel they have gone a bit far on LGBT+ issues, and dragged the SNP along in pandering to them on these.
I don`t think many people truly support these minority issues privately, but no one really speaks out because the Trans lobby are vociferous in shouting down any discussion, it`s a vote loser.
The First Minister got it right in terminating the agreement in my opinion. Now he needs to work on bringing the Alba party onboard and uniting the movement
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Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Thu 25 Apr 17:49
Normally it`s thought to be bad politics to propose a VONC unless you are confident you will win, as losing tends to strengthen the position of the person you are notionally trying to get rid of.
But Douglas Ross might be in a win-win situation.
Win the VONC, and it`s embarrassing for the SNP, and Kate Forbes may have to take over when she doesn`t really want to. (Although I believe it is possible for the FM just to ignore it). I don`t think there would necessarily be a GE.
Lose the VONC and Humza`s safe for a few more months, right at time the men in grey kilts are plotting to have him binned.
In the meantime, there`s 5 days of bad news stories.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 25 Apr 17:57
Ross is an eejit. He says the Greens shouldn`t have been in power but then calls a vote of no confidence in the person who just removed them from power. He`s a cretin of the highest order.
I think this is potentially great news for the SNP as the Greens had tarnished things. I am 100% behind transitioning away from oil and gas but it needs to handled properly. Suggestions of things like banning gas boilers without a reasonable alternative (don`t suggest heat pump!) isn`t logical. Neither is importing fossil fuels from other countries whilst banning extraction here.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 25 Apr 17:59
There`s bad news stories every day about the SNP regardless, thanks to our media, so no change there.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 25 Apr 18:52
When Labour are likely in power, albeit through a coalition with someone, then there will also be plenty of media coverage on their gaffes and incompetence.
Don`t think Yousaf had any choice here and has played his hand as well as he could have. The General Election will be a chastening experience for an snp now so used to weighing the votes rather than counting them. Time yet though for it to be turned around before the Holyrood elections but I`d imagine it won`t be with Yousaf as leader.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 25 Apr 20:22
The only option for Labour would be Lib Dems. I see it more likely of SNP going with Libs. Yousaf knew this would happen. If he didn`t have a plan B or confidence then he`d have stuck it out for another year THEN bumped the Greens.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Thu 25 Apr 21:02
If it comes to the point of the SNP losing control/a majority with a coalition, then they may as well just scrap Holyrood and go back to us taking orders from London 🤷🏻♂️
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Thu 25 Apr 21:07
Quote:
Dave_1885, Thu 25 Apr 21:02
If it comes to the point of the SNP losing control/a majority with a coalition, then they may as well just scrap Holyrood and go back to us taking orders from London 🤷🏻♂️
Don`t you think the SNP haven’t been taking orders from London already ?
The lose of 50,000 members certainly says somethings gone wrong.
Post Edited (Thu 25 Apr 21:07)
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Thu 25 Apr 21:35
Quote:
Tenruh, Thu 25 Apr 21:07
Quote:
Dave_1885, Thu 25 Apr 21:02
If it comes to the point of the SNP losing control/a majority with a coalition, then they may as well just scrap Holyrood and go back to us taking orders from London 🤷🏻♂️
Don`t you think the SNP haven’t been taking orders from London already ?
The lose of 50,000 members certainly says somethings gone wrong.
Like a broken record
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Thu 25 Apr 21:48
Quote:
Tenruh, Thu 25 Apr 21:07
Quote:
Dave_1885, Thu 25 Apr 21:02
If it comes to the point of the SNP losing control/a majority with a coalition, then they may as well just scrap Holyrood and go back to us taking orders from London 🤷🏻♂️
Don`t you think the SNP haven’t been taking orders from London already ?
The lose of 50,000 members certainly says somethings gone wrong.
No, I don’t…..I believe they’ve been incompetent in certain aspects and seriously considering just not voting in the next election.
But to claim the SNP are taking orders from London? If that was the case then Dross would be delighted with them…
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Fri 26 Apr 06:02
Quote:
Andrew283, Thu 25 Apr 21:35
Quote:
Tenruh, Thu 25 Apr 21:07
Quote:
Dave_1885, Thu 25 Apr 21:02
If it comes to the point of the SNP losing control/a majority with a coalition, then they may as well just scrap Holyrood and go back to us taking orders from London 🤷🏻♂️
Don`t you think the SNP haven’t been taking orders from London already ?
The lose of 50,000 members certainly says somethings gone wrong.
Like a broken record
Go tell me what their big achievements have been over the last 10 years ?
You certainly won`t appear like a broken record
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Fri 26 Apr 06:19
Quote:
jake89, Thu 25 Apr 16:57
Ash Regan 🤣 You`ll need to let us know when your Fringe show is on, Tenruh. That was a cracker.
An election in the near future would be great news for Labour. Terrible news for the Tories though.
To give additional context to my earlier comments, they relate to the Greens moving their focus to be more around LGBTQ concerns. These are valid concerns but in my opinion it feels odd that these are raised primarily by the Greens rather than being seen as issues for ALL parties to resolve. The issues also feel minor in comparison to much bigger problems with premature death, poverty and substance abuse. Of course, a big part of this is the narrative coming from the press so I admit my view is likely somewhat biased by this.
It`s all about Ash Regan this morning Jake....yesterday might just turn into a fringe show.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/25/humza-yousaf-future-determined-ash-regan-alba-party/
://wingsoverscotland.com/here-you-go-again/
Post Edited (Fri 26 Apr 06:26)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 26 Apr 07:24
Do you ever read the stories you post? As is stated in the article, if Ash Regan votes with the SNP it would be a narrow victory that would STILL result in him being a dead man walking.
Also, given their past, I can`t see Ash Regan supporting him.
We`re likely looking at another leadership vote or an election. The latter would result in a Lab-Lib coalition and would destroy the Tories in Scotland and massively reduce the number of SNP MSPs.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 26 Apr 07:33
To me, at this moment, the independence movement is dead. It`s fractured down ideological lines and that`s a circle that can`t be squared. The socially conservative wing doesn`t want to live in an independent Scotland where the socially liberal wing`s societal changes are implemented and the same is true the opposite way around. Those in the middle are just put off by the whole thing now as proven by the fact that Dave_1885 probably won`t bother voting at all (a win for the unionists) and that myself, having voted snp for the past twenty five years, can`t bring myself to lend them my vote at the next election. The snp deserve an electoral kicking as incompetence must be punished. If Labour have any sense they will quickly move to claim the centre ground in Scottish politics and if they do that competently then they will clean up come election day.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 26 Apr 07:36
Does anyone know if there is even a mechanism for calling a Holyrood election early? I was under the impression it`s fixed term and every election is in the May five years after the last election unless that date falls within a month of a Westminster election.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Fri 26 Apr 08:02
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Fri 26 Apr 07:36
Does anyone know if there is even a mechanism for calling a Holyrood election early? I was under the impression it`s fixed term and every election is in the May five years after the last election unless that date falls within a month of a Westminster election.
Think they need something like 66% vote to call an election, maybe the FM can also collapse the parliament.
Great comments you wrote further up , sums it up perfectly 👌
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Fri 26 Apr 08:04
Quote:
jake89, Fri 26 Apr 07:24
Do you ever read the stories you post? As is stated in the article, if Ash Regan votes with the SNP it would be a narrow victory that would STILL result in him being a dead man walking.
Also, given their past, I can`t see Ash Regan supporting him.
We`re likely looking at another leadership vote or an election. The latter would result in a Lab-Lib coalition and would destroy the Tories in Scotland and massively reduce the number of SNP MSPs.
She`d only vote for him if she got concessions around Woman`s rights and fighting independence.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 26 Apr 08:13
If there is a vote of no confidence and parliament can`t agree a new FM then an election can be called.
I`d suggest independence was pushed aside by other issues primarily being pushed by the Greens and some SNP MSPs. Obviously just my opinion but there are three key things to focus on and they all relate to reducing poverty:
- the economy
- education
- health and social care
The last one needs the biggest review. The National Care Service is a start but the sector is a mess, particularly around NHS wastage and staff retention in the care sector. Obviously just my experience, but when I worked in the NHS it reminded me of an old local authority - all the issues were resolved by spending more money. The workforce wears invisible shackles. They`ve been there for years so are sitting on the top of their band. If they leave they lose money unless going for a higher up role. So they stay but they`re fed up and jaded. They`ve had more "transformation" programmes than you`ve had hot dinners. These programmes fail because the high ups don`t want to relinquish power and the lower downs don`t believe change for the better is possible. Even the National Care Service bill (voted through a couple of months ago) has been significantly diluted.
If you can improve health, you improve education, if you improve the economy. If you do all three you reduce poverty. This does need money but it`s a spend to save. The Audit Scotland report makes clear we`re in crisis but everyone seems too busy worrying about whether John is now Jane and if Jane now uses she/her or they/them pronouns. Yes, treat people with respect and put in mechanisms to support that, but maybe make sure we don`t have people choking on their own vomit from injecting the wrong drugs first.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 26 Apr 08:14
Quote:
Tenruh, Fri 26 Apr 08:04
Quote:
jake89, Fri 26 Apr 07:24
Do you ever read the stories you post? As is stated in the article, if Ash Regan votes with the SNP it would be a narrow victory that would STILL result in him being a dead man walking.
Also, given their past, I can`t see Ash Regan supporting him.
We`re likely looking at another leadership vote or an election. The latter would result in a Lab-Lib coalition and would destroy the Tories in Scotland and massively reduce the number of SNP MSPs.
She`d only vote for him if she got concessions around Woman`s rights and fighting independence.
Her vote is irrelevant. He`s a goner regardless. Shame as I was looking forward to borrowing the Blue Peter thermometer to see how close we were to independence 😂
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Fri 26 Apr 09:20
Indy still on life support mate.
Next step assisted dying to put it out of its misery..
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 26 Apr 09:30
Quote:
Parboiled, Fri 26 Apr 09:20
Indy still on life support mate.
Next step assisted dying to put it out of its misery..
How is anyone supposed to know that if there`s no thermometer in Princes Street gardens though?
Whether you support independence or not, it`s not going away. No party truly represents the views of independence supporters in the same way no party supports the views of those wishing to stick within a union.
Obviously just my view, but I`d suggest the biggest change in independence support will be a result of how the future Labour Westminster government handles Scotland. If it treats it with disdain as has been the case under the Tories, then I can see the push continuing. If they work to support Scotland then I`d suggest the desire for independence would wain. If I were Labour in power, the first things I`d do is accelerate getting rid of those rusty subs in Rosyth, "save" Grangemouth and bulldoze Glasgow...joking.
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Fri 26 Apr 12:48
Bulldozing Glasgow is probably a step too far.
Bulldozing Ibrox and Celtic Park is something I could get onboard with.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 26 Apr 13:15
The events of the last 24 hours just show the folly of trying to predict what is going to happen.
Labour are now calling for a vote of no confidence in the SG, not just the FM. If successful that would be binding apparently, unlike the Tory proposal, and would inevitably lead to a General Election but Labour don`t have enough MSPs on their own to force the vote. Would anyone else support it? Maybe the Lib Dems? Of course Labour UK are now sticking their noses in saying the people of Scotland need a GE. (It`s amazing how politicians always seem to know what voters want when they`re not in power themselves).
The Greens seem to have softened their position and might be prepared to speak to Yousaf. I can`t see Ash Regan favouring a GE as she`s likely to lose her seat!
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 26 Apr 13:39
Regan won`t be brought in by Yousaf. I genuinely question where the media gets some of this crap.
There`s definitely something afoot here though. HY wouldn`t kick out the Greens without anticipating this so either he sees this as an easy way of stepping down, or he knows he has support from elsewhere.
Labour are just the gift that keeps giving. Their motion would benefit them but other parties, particularly Green, Conservative and Alba know it would be bad news for them to force an election.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 26 Apr 13:59
The Greens have, I believe, made a serious misjudgment. All they have done is force a party which they could align with on many issues have to veer further away from the goals they, the Scottish Greens, wish to achieve. They`ve thrown the rattle out the pram and instead of being able to influence and steer policy they are now going to be reduced to sniping from the sidelines.
Not that I actually care but if Yousaf wants to survive this he needs to call the oppositions bluff. I don`t think, and I`m ready to be wrong on this , that Labour want to fight a Scottish election less than 200 days or so before a UK general election. UK Labour has all the momentum and if they do well in a Holyrood election then that`s great for them. Say they don`t though? What if, to do well up here, they come out with comments that don`t play back well down south. Nah I reckon they`d rather win at Westminster which would then give them a tremendous platform to retake Holyrood eighteen months later. Labour are walking the tight rope of trying to further weaken the SNP but not so much as to bring them down.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Fri 26 Apr 14:10
I understood the position to be as follows:
Extraordinary General Election - requires 2/3rds of members to vote in favour.
Compulsory resignation of FM - VONC in government by simple majority of members voting - 28 days to elect a new FM or there`s an election.
VONC in FM alone - up to FM to quit or not.
An election of FM needs more than 50% of votes if contested, but more than 50% of members if not contested.
There might be an issue here as it may be easier for a potential FM to win a contested election than an uncontested election.
Salmond will be delighted to have the opportunity to appear in front of the cameras and will be milking this for all it is worth.
If Humza loses a VONC personally then a VONC in the SG will surely follow. The Greens will likely support an alternative FM - get their retaliation in but keep their seats for a bit longer.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 26 Apr 14:35
It seems the Greens aren`t in a conciliatory mood after all and the LibDems have said they will add their votes to Labour`s VONC so it can be debated.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sat 27 Apr 20:58
Seems to be some talk that the Greens will abstain. I reckoned they had miscalculated and perhaps they are thinking the same now.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 27 Apr 21:20
I heard two journalists this morning on the radio, one from the National and the other from the Sun, who both thought he would win both votes.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 28 Apr 09:45
If Ash Regan votes in any way that precipitates a General Election she`ll be voting herself out of Parliament won`t she?
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sun 28 Apr 09:48
Wee DROSS as FM?🤔
Gies us a break!🤪🤭🤣🤣🤣🙈
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 28 Apr 11:10
From an impartial view, the issue here is none of the pro-independence parties will get us there. Tenruh was previously quite warm to the Alba numpties but even he`s gone cold on them. They haven`t a hope in hell. Clearly what Salmond hoped was that there would be a massive defection to Alba but that didn`t happen.
If there is to be a proper new party supporting independence then they need to agree to support each other. The Greens and Alba must be the Tories wet dream!
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Sun 28 Apr 11:30
Quote:
jake89, Sun 28 Apr 11:10
From an impartial view, the issue here is none of the pro-independence parties will get us there. Tenruh was previously quite warm to the Alba numpties but even he`s gone cold on them. They haven`t a hope in hell. Clearly what Salmond hoped was that there would be a massive defection to Alba but that didn`t happen.
If there is to be a proper new party supporting independence then they need to agree to support each other. The Greens and Alba must be the Tories wet dream!
I`d be inclined to think independence won`t go forward until both Salmond and Sturgeon depart the scene.
Incredible what the establishment has achieved regarding Scottish Nationalism over the last 10 years .
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/GuPnrzkaowejAcs5/
Post Edited (Sun 28 Apr 13:24)
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