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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 4 Sep 07:57
We all know of course Farage was given 5 million as a personal gift by foreign based crypto billionaire Christopher Harborne for reasons yet to be plausibly explained. It maybe isn`t so widely known though that this foreign based crypto billionaire also gave Reform 15 million quid. It`s now come to light that another crypto billionaire Ben Delo, who was convicted in the US in 2022 for failing to implement adequate anti-money laundering controls in his cryptocurrency business, (surprise surprise then pardoned by Trump)has given Reform 4 million. Why exactly is Reform proving such a popular destination for crypto bros to dump their millions into? Is it their policy on asylum seekers? Their policy on which flags council buildings can display? Or is their another policy, perhaps yet to be announced, that is attracting them? Whatever it is I`m sure it`ll be a policy that will greatly be of benefit to your average Briton.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 4 Sep 10:58
Reform now in absolute turmoil as undercover journalists reveal the shenanigans they will pull to accept mega donations from foreign entities which breaks all sorts of laws. Do not ask for whom the bell tolls Reform, the bell tolls for thee.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Fri 4 Sep 14:57
Jail time, please. What a horrible party,
full of horrible people
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
Post Edited (Fri 04 Sep 14:57)
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 4 Sep 15:17
You`ve summed it up perfectly, Raymie.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 4 Sep 15:25
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Fri 4 Sept 10:58
Reform now in absolute turmoil as undercover journalists reveal the shenanigans they will pull to accept mega donations from foreign entities which breaks all sorts of laws. Do not ask for whom the bell tolls Reform, the bell tolls for thee.
Yet the BBC still let them on debate programmes to spread their drivel. Stop giving these absolute crooks a platform!!!
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 4 Sep 15:40
Perhaps but through exposure they are cancelling themselves. Ultimately they, and Restore for that matter, are using the issue of immigration to try and get the fox into the henhouse. It`s who that fox is that`s going to have to be exposed. The multi millions from the crypto bros isn`t charity. It`s a favour that will be expected to be returned. In hundredweight and penny pound.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Fri 4 Sep 17:00
Farage continually makes the point about him being the most attacked MP in the UK.
Has he missed the news about Jo Cox and Sir David Amess? It strikes me as the statements of a complete narcissist.
While it is great that this stuff is being made public, we are still reliant on those voting for them to be smart enough to understand what is going on. And, on that, I`m not particularly confident.
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Sat 5 Sep 06:24
Quote:
wee eck, Fri 4 Sept 15:17
You`ve summed it up perfectly, Raymie.
Wonder how Mr Murrell is doing?
He`s probably home for the weekend.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 5 Sep 06:53
Mr Murrell was a paid employee of the SNP rather than a politician. I don`t recall him ever expressing a political opinion.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sat 5 Sep 08:49
He also didn’t take illegals bungs for party funding.
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Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Sat 5 Sep 09:00
Farage has always been a blatant grifter however, they`re all at it, all of them.
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sat 5 Sep 10:07
Quote:
wee eck, Sat 5 Sep 06:53
Mr Murrell was a paid employee of the SNP rather than a politician. I don`t recall him ever expressing a political opinion.
I wonder if he’s a unionist in disguise…
COYP
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Wed 9 Sep 16:17
Lol. So after making sure he clarified the point during interviews that it wasn`t a criminal investigation, good old Nige is going to have to find another line to try and talk over the interviewer.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sat 12 Sep 09:00
Ben Delo, the.crypto billionaire convicted felon I mentioned in the opening post has donated a record 36 million quid to Reform.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sat 12 Sep 09:54
Wanting nothing in return no doubt.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sat 12 Sep 10:09
Ten they bang on about Lord Salisbury giving Labour £16m over a 15 year period……the irony in their party is genuinely staggering.
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Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Sat 12 Sep 12:43
Christopher Harborne just matched Delo`s donation. Reform up to to 72 million pounds
G Wardrope
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sat 12 Sep 14:12
How much has Sainsbury`s donated to get some free labour for Christmas?
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sat 12 Sep 21:09
I wonder if British businesses are willing to throw 10’s of millions at Reform in hope of a change in financial policy
COYP
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sun 13 Sep 10:01
Quote:
NMCmassive, Sat 12 Sep 21:09
I wonder if British businesses are willing to throw 10’s of millions at Reform in hope of a change in financial policy
Have any done it yet? Maybe that says it all if they haven’t so far.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sun 13 Sep 12:13
Was just reading the eye watering amounts of profit the power companies are making at the time of supply problems.
The heads of these companies are also pocketing a great basic salary along with huge bonuses!
And folk in the UK won`t be able to afford to turn their heating on this winter.
Doesn`t affect MP`S though, it just goes on expenses!😡
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 13 Sep 13:34
Quote:
Dave_1885, Sun 13 Sep 10:01
Quote:
NMCmassive, Sat 12 Sep 21:09
I wonder if British businesses are willing to throw 10’s of millions at Reform in hope of a change in financial policy
Have any done it yet? Maybe that says it all if they haven’t so far.
If you’re going to ignore that both Ben Delo and Christopher Harborne are British born and have British businesses then I suppose you’d be closer to an argument that British business hasn’t donated to the Reform party
COYP
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sun 13 Sep 13:44
Quote:
NMCmassive, Sun 13 Sep 13:34
Quote:
Dave_1885, Sun 13 Sep 10:01
Quote:
NMCmassive, Sat 12 Sep 21:09
I wonder if British businesses are willing to throw 10’s of millions at Reform in hope of a change in financial policy
Have any done it yet? Maybe that says it all if they haven’t so far.
If you’re going to ignore that both Ben Delo and Christopher Harborne are British born and have British businesses then I suppose you’d be closer to an argument that British business hasn’t donated to the Reform party
One loves the country that much he lives in Thailand and has done since Brexit (I wonder why) and the other is a convicted fraudster in America…….
It’s not exactly ringing endorsements.
Post Edited (Sun 13 Sep 13:45)
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 13 Sep 16:45
Quote:
Dave_1885, Sun 13 Sep 13:44
Quote:
NMCmassive, Sun 13 Sep 13:34
Quote:
Dave_1885, Sun 13 Sep 10:01
Quote:
NMCmassive, Sat 12 Sep 21:09
I wonder if British businesses are willing to throw 10’s of millions at Reform in hope of a change in financial policy
Have any done it yet? Maybe that says it all if they haven’t so far.
If you’re going to ignore that both Ben Delo and Christopher Harborne are British born and have British businesses then I suppose you’d be closer to an argument that British business hasn’t donated to the Reform party
One loves the country that much he lives in Thailand and has done since Brexit (I wonder why) and the other is a convicted fraudster in America…….
It’s not exactly ringing endorsements.
Exact same can be said about donors to every party so what does it even matter?
Lord Waheed Alli and the Quadraure Capital trading firm… yeah. Ringing endorsements…
COYP
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Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Sun 13 Sep 18:02
If you look at the donations that each party has received from 2019 to 2026 they are as follows;
Conservative £226.9m
Labour £184.6m
Liberal Democrats - £73.2m
Reform UK £57.8m
SNP £11.1m
Sinn Féin - £6.95m
Green Party £6.37m
DUP - £3.95m
Plaid Cymru £2.71m
SDLP -£2.42m
I
G Wardrope
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 13 Sep 18:14
I suspect that’s why these 2 large donations to Reform is a bit of a cat amongst the pigeons.
Labour and Tories have always generated much larger incomes than others and now Reform has overtaken them.
I don’t think we should underestimate how important business is to politics especially when it comes to generating income for the party.
COYP
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Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Sun 13 Sep 18:52
The headline is the amount but my thoughts behind this are;
I don` think the issue is the amount of money. The political dynamic seems to have changed from the two party system to three party, with the latest polls showing Labour and Reform both on about 23% of the vote, and Tories on about 20%.
My question would be:
"Why has the UK political environment developed to the point where sophisticated wealthy individuals consider investing £36m each in a relatively new political party to be worthwhile?"
Reform were a Brexit movement and political influence party 5 years ago. Now they are probably considered a plausible contender for political power. Thus they are likely to attract donations.
What has remained under developed with the Reform party is the organisational machine. The money will fund organisational development and structure. £72m spent building institutional capability could permanently change the Reform party
Simply attacking Reform will not work.
If Reform voters already believe that established institutions are dysfunctional, attacks from those institutions can paradoxically reinforce Reform`s narrative.
Money and credibility - Money cannot manufacture political demand indefinitely, but it can dramatically improve the efficiency with which existing support is converted into votes.
Success goes to success i.e. resources migrate towards the apparently successful competitor. This could attract candidates from the other parties, more donations etc.
Both donors have substantial cryptocurrency interests, while Reform has advocated crypto-friendly policies. Reform says the donors expect nothing in return. However, the scale of the donations will generate scrutiny.
The Electoral Commission is proposing limitations on donations. This also helps explain why making very large contributions now could make strategic sense to donors before the regulatory regime changes.
One of the constraints for Reform in the past was voter awareness. However now everybody knows Reform and Farage. The constraint now for Reform is how you convert one in four voters into hundereds of MP`s in Parliament. I see this £72m as an attempt to remove that constraint.
The challenge for Reform will be if the donations remove that constraint, the next constraint for them is competence, trust and governing credibility. That is something that cannot be purchased.
I think the intent is to cement Reform as the third political party. It goes beyond the donations. It wouldnt surprise me if we end up with a coalition government after the next general election.
G Wardrope
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 13 Sep 18:54
Single biggest issue in society is all these supposed "experts" who are nothing but clickbait headline creators. It genuinely is depressing that these idiots are given a platform. Years ago we`d have them in asylums.
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Sun 13 Sep 19:45
Quote:
Indiapar1, Sun 13 Sept 18:52
The headline is the amount but my thoughts behind this are;
I don` think the issue is the amount of money. The political dynamic seems to have changed from the two party system to three party, with the latest polls showing Labour and Reform both on about 23% of the vote, and Tories on about 20%.
My question would be:
"Why has the UK political environment developed to the point where sophisticated wealthy individuals consider investing £36m each in a relatively new political party to be worthwhile?"
Reform were a Brexit movement and political influence party 5 years ago. Now they are probably considered a plausible contender for political power. Thus they are likely to attract donations.
What has remained under developed with the Reform party is the organisational machine. The money will fund organisational development and structure. £72m spent building institutional capability could permanently change the Reform party
Simply attacking Reform will not work.
If Reform voters already believe that established institutions are dysfunctional, attacks from those institutions can paradoxically reinforce Reform`s narrative.
Money and credibility - Money cannot manufacture political demand indefinitely, but it can dramatically improve the efficiency with which existing support is converted into votes.
Success goes to success i.e. resources migrate towards the apparently successful competitor. This could attract candidates from the other parties, more donations etc.
Both donors have substantial cryptocurrency interests, while Reform has advocated crypto-friendly policies. Reform says the donors expect nothing in return. However, the scale of the donations will generate scrutiny.
The Electoral Commission is proposing limitations on donations. This also helps explain why making very large contributions now could make strategic sense to donors before the regulatory regime changes.
One of the constraints for Reform in the past was voter awareness. However now everybody knows Reform and Farage. The constraint now for Reform is how you convert one in four voters into hundereds of MP`s in Parliament. I see this £72m as an attempt to remove that constraint.
The challenge for Reform will be if the donations remove that constraint, the next constraint for them is competence, trust and governing credibility. That is something that cannot be purchased.
I think the intent is to cement Reform as the third political party. It goes beyond the donations. It wouldnt surprise me if we end up with a coalition government after the next general election.
I normally just scroll past the name of who has made the post to try and read their post objectively, without any subconscious bias. As soon as I started reading this I recognised it as being AI generated, and guessed it would be IndiaPar. I`m not sure if it is a real person or just some kind of AI Chatbot the site has introduced but I`m finding it really tedious now. Let`s try and keep AI off the site and just keep it for actual humans having an opinion
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Sun 13 Sep 20:30
Yep totally stands out as AI but I’ve no objection to its use as long as people say it’s AI and what their prompt was as AI tends to bias towards the prompt and prompter.
That said, once the AI has provided it’s output they could have said ‘make this more succinct’ as the post just droned on and on adding little value.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 13 Sep 20:40
I use AI, it’s like a really sharp Google but if you’re taking a point/learning something from it you really need to check sources. Like everything on the internet there’s to many times the source for something is circular and unchallenged. Once looked at, it falls apart.
I can’t say for certain that’s copied and pasted from AI but if I was a betting man I would say it is. It looks like part of a conversation with a LLM.
Again, nothing wrong with using them. They’re tools but I don’t appreciate copied and pasted responses without context.
COYP
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Topic Originator: parsfan
Date: Mon 14 Sep 06:41
AI was my first thought, a lack of "tge" usual spelling mistakes was a clue but then there are a couple. Not "hundereds", but a straight AI copy and paste wouldn`t have any.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Mon 14 Sep 10:42
Quote:
NMCmassive, Sun 13 Sept 20:40
I use AI, it’s like a really sharp Google but if you’re taking a point/learning something from it you really need to check sources. Like everything on the internet there’s to many times the source for something is circular and unchallenged. Once looked at, it falls apart.
I can’t say for certain that’s copied and pasted from AI but if I was a betting man I would say it is. It looks like part of a conversation with a LLM.
Again, nothing wrong with using them. They’re tools but I don’t appreciate copied and pasted responses without context.
NMC in response to your post. I suppose the context is to undertake an inquiry into the issue regarding crypto donations . Whilst I may use AI to research information, I take the output at face value. I apply the data through Soft Systems Methodology (SSM) to try to understand the issue Statements in the press or on the new quoting the donator or Reform politicians such as "level the playing field" or "this money is to prepare us for government" I personnally need to understand the context of those statements and what they actually mean
For example: if a billionaire already has billions, what are there interests ie more billions? Will this money actually translate to votes? Why are they donating,? Why now? How will this money be used?
I think I set out my conclusion from my perspective in my post ie I believe the money is an intent to cement the Reform party as the third major party moving away from the Brexit protest party that it was 5 years ago I have no real view on the rights and wrongs of that, but it strikes me that there are still a number of constraints or hurdles to translate that funding into votes that would elect hundreds of MP`s into parliament such that they would have a majority. A coalition government seems more likely to me.
G Wardrope
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Mon 14 Sep 10:52
Do you think it will be a coalition of the right or the left?
Politically it should be easier for the right but I don’t see Farage and Badenock forming a coalition together (just my gut feeling - I’ve nothing to back that up)
COYP
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Mon 14 Sep 11:25
On a side note, Rupert Lowe of Restore states that if they get in they will force all businesses to accept cash.
Is that not what they hate about all these barbers and vape shops? 🤔 or is it ok if its British businesses money laundering and avoiding taxes?
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Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Mon 14 Sep 13:25
Quote:
NMCmassive, Mon 14 Sept 10:52
Do you think it will be a coalition of the right or the left?
Politically it should be easier for the right but I don’t see Farage and Badenock forming a coalition together (just my gut feeling - I’ve nothing to back that up)
NMC - I agree that politically a coalition of right seems more realistic. It will be interesting to see if the rhetoric from Reform and the Conservatives changes over time. Personally I think yesterdays solutions are todays problems in many ways and the Tories haven`t governed particularly well in my view. I don`t see that a change in leadership can dismiss that. Reform lack experience in government and they have a credibility issue. That could in part be solved by a coalition with the Tories
In terms of Labour, I think that in some respects a change in leadership occurred before (I assume) Labour politicians thought things got too bad. I suppose it depends on what the current leadership actually delivers and as a result what share of the vote they can achieve.
I do think that parties these days spend too much time attacking each other. The issues that the country faces needs a common approach and collaboration amongst all parties and MP`s. I think it was Harold Wilson who said, a bird needs a left wing and right wing to fly (might be wrong)
Of course this could all change given the current external security threats we face.
G Wardrope
Post Edited (Mon 14 Sep 13:43)
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Mon 14 Sep 18:08
Anyone else remember when the Lib Dem’s decided to not take part in attacking other parties and took a huge jump at the voting booth? Okay, they absolutely pumped themselves with Tory coalition but my point is perhaps not attacking everyone and discussing the root causes of issues is a better idea than just attacking everyone else
COYP
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Topic Originator: Indiapar1
Date: Mon 14 Sep 18:56
NMC - I also remember the "gang of four" who left the Labour Party to form the SDP in the early 80`s. They formed an alliance with the Liberal Party to contest the 1983 election and received about 25% of the vote by filling a political space in the centre of politics. This was not far off the 28% of the Labour vote share. They eventually merged with the Liberals following a poor showing in the 1988 general election. They failed to turn vote share into the number of MP`s seats.
Different circumstances (Democrats were in the centre between Tories and Labour but Reform are probably to the right of the Tories) but there are some parallels with Reform who need to turn vote share into MP`s seats given it was never solved by the Lib Dems.
I suspect the donations they will receive will be aimed at funding the development of constituency organisation, candidate quality, and governing credibility.
Personally, I cannot believe the two donors woke up one morning and decided to give £36m each to Reform, then picked up the phone to tell them. I would have thought there would have been discussions over many weeks and involve some sort of strategy to determine the cost.
I suppose the question is are we exleriencing another SDP moment with today`s politics.
G Wardrope
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Tue 15 Sep 01:10
A large part of the problem is Labour stepped right and the tories stepped left.
Reform then restore are to the right of the Tories and SNP / Greens to the left of Labour.
It’s splitting votes on both sides, major parties are representing a smaller percentage of voters. Lib Dem’s were well placed to me but they genuinely look like they stand for nothing atm
COYP
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 24 Sep 11:50
A MRP mega poll has Labour storming into tip spot with Reform slumping to third place from being first only twelve months ago. Seems their alliance with billionaire foreign based crypto bros isn`t being received well with those struggling by on twenty odd grand a year. Funny that.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Thu 24 Sep 12:00
Top 3 still very close on vote share, and Reform 2nd on that basis.
Mental the variation in seats given the parity on votes. I wonder if Andy will still be pushing for electoral reform.....
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 24 Sep 12:24
Tactical voting is going to sink Reform. You can fool some of the people all of the time etc etc.
Post Edited (Thu 24 Sep 12:24)
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 24 Sep 12:46
Former public school boy and "man of the people" Daniel Thomas has been arrested for numerous offences under the 1995 merchant shipping act.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Thu 24 Sep 13:00
The fine for a slash is only about £100 isn`t it?
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