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 Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: Jbob  
Date:   Sat 27 Oct 18:02

In a synagogue in Pittsburgh with multiple deaths- shooter now in custody.

Gunsville, USA.

Bobs of the world unite
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Sat 27 Oct 22:47

11 folks dead.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 28 Oct 08:56

Donald Chump is reported as saying an armed guard at the church would have prevented this happening.

More like it just added to the casualty list.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 28 Oct 11:30

Well nobody would know that for sure VE. I mean if that is the case why put armed guards anywhere?

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Sun 28 Oct 12:37

That's basically it.Everywhere will resemble a prison.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sun 28 Oct 18:45

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sun 28 Oct 08:56

Donald Chump is reported as saying an armed guard at the church would have prevented this happening.

More like it just added to the casualty list.


He can't say anything about all the guns in circulation without upsetting the powerful US gun lobby, who no doubt chipped in to help him get into the White House, so why not lay the blame at the door of the victims of this atrocity?

Obviously, if the Jewish community in Pittsburgh hadn't been so tight, they'd have hired their own gunslinger to shoot down that crazy gunman before he could murder anyone........



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Sun 28 Oct 22:15

Guns are only the tool, where tough gun laws exist like in the UK they resort to turning vehicles into weapons with the same level of tragedy! Or suicide bombs as per Manchester arena.

Cut to the current Glasgow feuds the guns being used are not legal and in most cases banned weapons illegally imported.

Blaming guns is not a solution or the problem!
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sun 28 Oct 23:11

Quote:

richie5401, Sun 28 Oct 12:37

That's basically it.Everywhere will resemble a prison.


That might be the point...

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 29 Oct 09:58

''Guns are only the tool, where tough gun laws exist like in the UK they resort to turning vehicles into weapons with the same level of tragedy! Or suicide bombs as per Manchester arena.

Cut to the current Glasgow feuds the guns being used are not legal and in most cases banned weapons illegally imported.

Blaming guns is not a solution or the problem!''

Are you having a laff, Andy? You sound like one of the most entrenched gun lobbyists, ''From my cold dead hands'', Charlton Heston.

You believe that making it more difficult if not impossible for Joe Public to get his hands on guns, by making it illegal to own one without good reason, would have no effect on the number of senseless murders we see in the good old US of A, almost every other week?

Seriously?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: preston par  
Date:   Mon 29 Oct 10:09

"Blaming guns is not a solution or the problem!"

Wow, just wow. Not even sure what to say to that.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 29 Oct 10:20

Reminds me of the old adage "guns don't kill people... People kill people".
Eh... No, people WITH guns kill people!
Sadly only a change in their constitution will ever lead to change... And that ain't gonna happen... Is it?
🤔

ADMIN.... min 😏

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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Mon 29 Oct 11:10

Would be interested to see knife crime for USA in comparison to UK. Certainly not the "mass" elements like we get with Guns but UK weapon issue is just a different weapon rather than having no issue.

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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Mon 29 Oct 12:01

Well it's certainly seems to be heading that way Rasta.You are correct Widders no chance the constitution will change.Besides what do you say to a guy/woman who has a gun who hasn't harmed anyone?(which is the overwhelming majority)
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: preston par  
Date:   Mon 29 Oct 13:11

Having lived in the USA for 10+ years not too long ago, it would be ridiculously hard to amend the constitution given the current climate. So much of the political voting is done in regards to gun laws. If Trump was to put in stricter measures etc. then he would see his ratings drop drastically and would have no chance of winning the next election.
I was lucky enough (or not) to live in some of the states (Wyoming, Montana etc) where people would vote purely based on immigration and gun laws. Any sniff of a change was met by huge backlashes. The amount of guns in circulation if frightening as well.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 29 Oct 16:32

"Well nobody would know that for sure VE. I mean if that is the case why put armed guards anywhere?"

I doubt if armed security would deter an armed "crazy" determined on an attack.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Mon 29 Oct 17:06

Ok to try and give some context to my statement. So it is not taken completely out of context.

The USA 325 million. UK 66 million. Nearly 5 times as many people.

In 2010, the reported gun murder rate for the U.S. was 2.84 per 100,000
According to a 2013 report by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), between 2005 and 2012, the average homicide rate in the U.S. was 4.9 per 100,000 inhabitants compared to the average rate globally, which was 6.2.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Murders/WHO

per 100,000 people more murders are committed in the UK than America (2004)
As I'm saying if someone wants to kill somebody they will choose a weapon.

London murders this year are higher average than US. Mostly knives.

Our massacres, atrocities are now generally carried out by vehicles and bombs.
It's still death.

The media will actually lead you to believe that USA is the murder capital of the world but you are far more likely to be murdered in the UK where we have some of the toughest gun laws.



Post Edited (Mon 29 Oct 17:11)
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Mon 29 Oct 18:05

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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 29 Oct 18:17

Even though that data is eight years old there is no way, RM, that you are statistically more likely to be murdered in the UK than the U.S.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: parforthecourse  
Date:   Mon 29 Oct 19:27

https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5/rankings

....this list would appear to show you are around 6 times more likely to be a homicide victim in the USA compared to the UK.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Mon 29 Oct 20:32

So far as I can see there is no absolute right to bear arms in the USA. This is a misrepresentation of the second amendment which states: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of the State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


My reading of this is that the person bearing arms has to be part of some militia, a bit like the Territorial Army in the UK or the National Guard in the USA. The idea that any country could ever be protected by individuals firing off their rifles is clearly preposterous, especially in the USA which has the largest armed force in the history of the world.

sammer
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 29 Oct 21:02

Surely the National Guard is the Federal militia ?

I know it is organised state by state and is not a precise equivalent of our TA.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Mon 29 Oct 22:06

VEE,

I am sure you're right. But these words 'A well regulated Militia' do not in themselves give carte blanche to anybody and everybody to carry firearms.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Mon 29 Oct 23:24

Here are the arguments for both sides of that Sammer.Like most things in the constitution it depends who is interpreting it!

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/second_amendment
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Tue 30 Oct 00:51

Thanks a lot for that Richie. I realise that this was just a summary of judicial judgments, but I did not see any reference to the concept of ' a well-regulated Militia. The word 'Militia' surely suggests some form of common defence, not individual gung ho reaction. And the phrase preceding that is not just 'regulated' but 'well regulated' which again indicates the intention was to have a well-disciplined collective response to external threat. That is the duty which accompanies the right to bear arms.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Tue 30 Oct 01:23

Many believe that the Militia wasn't just for external threats but mainly for internal purposes,in case any govt went rogue.

As for the right to bear arms,the break in the sentence has caused a lot of debate.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Tue 30 Oct 05:33

Quote:

Playup_Pompey, Mon 29 Oct 11:10

Would be interested to see knife crime for USA in comparison to UK. Certainly not the "mass" elements like we get with Guns but UK weapon issue is just a different weapon rather than having no issue.


If having a higher knife crime rate is the price to pay for preventing mass shootings in schools, churches, synagogues etc then it's a price worth paying.

If you only turn up to moan then do it elsewhere
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Tue 30 Oct 07:09

Indeed. Knives tend to kill one or two people per minute as a worst case scenario, the attacker needs to get right up to the victim(s), they can be disarmed more easily and there is a higher survival rate. The assault weapons used in the attacks in the USA can kill scores of people per minute, the attacker can be far away and so rather than target someone can fire indiscriminately, and can't be disarmed easily. Knife crime is abhorrent but it's a lesser of two evils in this case.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 30 Oct 13:56

Many if not most of these mass killings are pre planned.

In the UK they don't tend to happen with guns due to strict gun laws, our factions within the UK have sudsquently changed their weapons from guns to vehicles and bombs to complete their evil plan.

America has already seen the largest ever atrocity with the hijack of planes to destroy the twin towers and the Pentagon.

These nutters will change their weapons accordingly to achieve their evil plans.

Bomb making is readily available on the Internet and I would suspect components are readily available in the US as are cars and vans and all probably far harder to detect using metal detectors at the front of buildings!

By thinking that taking guns away from people will stop mass killings is sheer nonsense and I'd suspect by doing so in the US would only see an increase in other methods used and quite possibly with larger death tolls.

Whichever set of figures you choose to use (mine were planned murders, not accidental) you are comparing figures from a country the UK which has some of the toughest gun controls and the US with the slackest where gun ownership is the norm and the murder rates per 10,000 people are not abhorrently skewed.

The media have a thing currently about US gun crime, whereas the mass killings in the East using suicide bombs hardly make the news, we are being fed what we need to believe. It's there to make Trump look incompetent and to keep guns in the news to subconsciously make people be scared of guns and those that choose to use them regardless of situation.

Clay pigeon shooting is currently one of the fastest growing sports in the UK and high level meetings have already taken place to try and reduce the appeal of recreational shooting which included Facebook changing its rules 3 times already this year and many private shooting groups having their pages closed and 100's of others required to remove the word gun or shooting from their names to be allowed to continue.

The only thing concerning guns which is being dulled down by the media in the UK is the death and injuries caused by the illegal weapons currently being used in the UK as it is a testament to how poor our customs and border patrols have become that their are so many of them on our streets and the government have absolutely no control or no idea what to do about it!

Radio Scotland reporting today that 58% of our murders in Scotland were carried out using knives, they don't mention how many were with illegal guns?



Post Edited (Tue 30 Oct 13:57)
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Tue 30 Oct 14:21

A well reasoned,factual assessment.Nicely played.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Tue 30 Oct 15:58

Nicely played doesn't change the facts though.
The USA has 10 times more deaths as a result of guns per head of population than any country on earth.
I accept many of them are suicides but I say again.
Take away the means, the less chance there is of them happening at all.

Every stat bears this out with countries that have banned gun ownership.

It is common sense.

The problem America has is that it can't just slowly ban guns as there are so many so the killing of innocents will continue.

Australia and the UK took the decision to ban them outright bar special licences and it has paid dividend big time.

If you only turn up to moan then do it elsewhere
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Tue 30 Oct 16:14

What do you say to a gun owner who hasn't harmed anyone and has no plans to?Which i re-iterate is the vast majority?
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 30 Oct 16:40

AAPS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

I think you need to look at some of the stats for Africa, Russia and other American Nations before you tar the USA with that brush.

We also have close to 2 million legally held guns in the UK so they are not actually banned at all.

A shotgun certificate is required but as a citizen of the UK you have the right to also own a gun.

The BBC report that most illegal guns in the UK are stolen from within the UK which again is just a lie as most guns illegally held in the UK and used in violence are handguns which were banned over 25 years ago and were collected and owners compensated.

Illegal handguns have crossed our borders mainly from mainland Europe.

Scotland last year 59 murders over 600 suicides, you think banning guns from the UK would reduce either of those figures?



Post Edited (Tue 30 Oct 16:44)
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Tue 30 Oct 18:19

Do you think those figures would increase if gun ownership was more widespread?

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 30 Oct 18:39

TOWK

The legally held number of guns is increasing year on year but crimes involving legally held guns in violence are very low. Is 2 million legally held guns not already quite a high figure? So no I don't not within the legally held gun fraternity.

However the use of illegally held weapons in England and Wales is huge with the majority from handguns which have been banned for over 20 years in the UK.

I think you will find the figures below for the UK quite alarming.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&ved=2ahUKEwiz65C05a7eAhVH_KQKHfjDApoQFjAKegQIBRAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fresearchbriefings.files.parliament.uk%2Fdocuments%2FCBP-7654%2FCBP-7654.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1PVZVwb4KWX6HDlnWigr0i
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Tue 30 Oct 19:49

It is legitimate to talk about illegally held guns in the UK but at the end of the day , they are still illegal and fact is there are very rare occurrences of multiple shootings and certainly not from lone madmen.

In America the vast majority of mass shootings are from people with permits to carry them in the first place.

It is very blasé to talk about defending yourself when you are at a concert, church, synagogue, shopping market, school and someone opens up with a semi automatic bought from a local store near Walmart.

If you only turn up to moan then do it elsewhere
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: parforthecourse  
Date:   Tue 30 Oct 19:56

Quote:

richie5401, Tue 30 Oct 16:14

What do you say to a gun owner who hasn't harmed anyone and has no plans to?Which i re-iterate is the vast majority?


How about something like "I'm sorry to be taking away your gun, which I know you've used responsibly, but by doing so, I can maybe prevent the next 10 Sandy Hooks"?
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 30 Oct 20:26

Topic Originator: parforthecourse like | nolike
Date: Tue 30 Oct 19:56

Quote:

richie5401, Tue 30 Oct 16:14

What do you say to a gun owner who hasn't harmed anyone and has no plans to?Which i re-iterate is the vast majority?


How about something like "I'm sorry to be taking away your gun, which I know you've used responsibly, but by doing so, I can maybe prevent the next 10 Sandy Hooks"?


Look if someone wants to commit mass murder they will find a way. Taking legally held guns off someone and depriving someone of their right to recreation isn't going to stop the the next mass killing! As I said above the school buses blown up in the East etc etc are all carried out by people with serious issues as are the ones in the USA. Same result different tool!
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Tue 30 Oct 21:34

Someone with intent to kill will find a way, we can all agree on that.

Why the hell make it so easy for them is what I can't understand.

If you only turn up to moan then do it elsewhere
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Tue 30 Oct 21:52

PFTC-The majority response would be "As tragic as that was i had nothing to do with Sandy Hook"Adam Lanza was a member of a gun club and shot regularly with his mum.One day he shot her and 20 young children.No warning,nothing.

How do you legislate that?I wish we could but it's impossible.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: parforthecourse  
Date:   Tue 30 Oct 21:59

Quote:

richie5401, Tue 30 Oct 21:52

PFTC-The majority response would be "As tragic as that was i had nothing to do with Sandy Hook"Adam Lanza was a member of a gun club and shot regularly with his mum.One day he shot her and 20 young children.No warning,nothing.

How do you legislate that?I wish we could but it's impossible.


And with no access to a gun, in all probability, 21 people would be alive today.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Tue 30 Oct 22:01

The gun was locked in a cupboard.He forced the lock and killed his mum.As RM said if the will is there nothing can stop it.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 31 Oct 16:01

I find d it almost incredible that some posters are siding with America's Gun Lobby supporters.

Richie, I can just about understand. He lives in the US and has been conditioned by his environment and convinced by the Gun Lobby's rhetoric. Renegade Master, lives right here in West Fife, so how on earth can he subscribe to the flawed logic of Republican America?

Our last mass shooting was the Dunblane tragedy. Yes, the perpetrator was completely deranged, but he wouldn't have been able to carry out his evil crime if he had not been able to freely and legally own a variety of firearms.

He even handed in a Kalashnikov-style rifle after Hungerford, for which he was compensated to the tune of £800 after writing to his MP.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Wed 31 Oct 16:19

Folks have been killing each other on this planet for thousands of years GG,Do you really believe the tool is the problem?

The last 3 mass shootings all passed background checks.That was a good idea but it didn't stop anything.

You have 99.9% of gun owners being responsible.

Adam Lanza,Rob Bowers,Dylan Roof etc are responsible.Punishing law abiding folks for individual evil is a poor argument.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Wed 31 Oct 16:45

GG I have owned guns since I was 12, I'm on the verge of the Scotland Clay Pigeon Team, I use my guns for my work and livelihood as I have done since I was a gamekeeper now a pest controller and it has never crossed my mind to ever want to hurt anyone with them.

I am certainly going to stand up for the rights of gun ownership, shooting is still taught in many schools in Scotland, Strathallan recently won the British National School Championships.

I also game shoot and feed my children freshly shot game.

But please retract and apologise regarding your statement that I subscribe to the flawed logic of Republican America because that is entirely incorrect and shows a blatant blinkered view of your choice and I find quite narrow minded from yourself.

My point throughout has been to say that people will kill others the weapons change due to conditions and circumstances.

Should demolition experts be denied explosives incase they decide to go and blow up a school?
Should school busses be banned incase the driver flips one day and decides to drive it off a cliff?

The list goes on!

We've banned knives in public places folk still get stabbed to death.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Wed 31 Oct 16:51

All the best getting on the team RM.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Wed 31 Oct 17:04

Cheers Ritchie!
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 31 Oct 17:33

Shotguns are not the big issue, that's why it is relatively straightforward to own one (or more) in the UK.

The real problem is access to rifled weapons that can discharge several rounds in quick succession and can be reloaded quickly.

"shooting is still taught in many schools in Scotland," - maybe in fee paying so called public schools, but not in any state school to my knowledge.

I cannot see any local authority allowing such.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 04:47

Quote:

renegade master, Wed 31 Oct 16:45

GG I have owned guns since I was 12, I'm on the verge of the Scotland Clay Pigeon Team, I use my guns for my work and livelihood as I have done since I was a gamekeeper now a pest controller and it has never crossed my mind to ever want to hurt anyone with them.

I am certainly going to stand up for the rights of gun ownership, shooting is still taught in many schools in Scotland, Strathallan recently won the British National School Championships.

I also game shoot and feed my children freshly shot game.

But please retract and apologise regarding your statement that I subscribe to the flawed logic of Republican America because that is entirely incorrect and shows a blatant blinkered view of your choice and I find quite narrow minded from yourself.

My point throughout has been to say that people will kill others the weapons change due to conditions and circumstances.

Should demolition experts be denied explosives incase they decide to go and blow up a school?
Should school busses be banned incase the driver flips one day and decides to drive it off a cliff?

The list goes on!

We've banned knives in public places folk still get stabbed to death.


What a naive view to have. Just because people carry knives (also banned under UK law) the chances they have of killing dozens or in the USA, hundreds sometimes are miniscule.
As I said earlier someone with an intent to kill will do it but why make it even easier by selling a semi automatic rifle in the shop next to Walmart?

Can't you see the flawed logic?

If you only turn up to moan then do it elsewhere
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 06:47

Quote:

GG Riva, Wed 31 Oct 16:01

I find d it almost incredible that some posters are siding with America's Gun Lobby supporters.

Richie, I can just about understand. He lives in the US and has been conditioned by his environment and convinced by the Gun Lobby's rhetoric. Renegade Master, lives right here in West Fife, so how on earth can he subscribe to the flawed logic of Republican America?

Our last mass shooting was the Dunblane tragedy. Yes, the perpetrator was completely deranged, but he wouldn't have been able to carry out his evil crime if he had not been able to freely and legally own a variety of firearms.

He even handed in a Kalashnikov-style rifle after Hungerford, for which he was compensated to the tune of £800 after writing to his MP.


He wouldn't have been able to carry out the crime without his friends in high places.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 07:08

Quote:

Rastapari, Thu 1 Nov 06:47

Quote:

GG Riva, Wed 31 Oct 16:01

I find d it almost incredible that some posters are siding with America's Gun Lobby supporters.

Richie, I can just about understand. He lives in the US and has been conditioned by his environment and convinced by the Gun Lobby's rhetoric. Renegade Master, lives right here in West Fife, so how on earth can he subscribe to the flawed logic of Republican America?

Our last mass shooting was the Dunblane tragedy. Yes, the perpetrator was completely deranged, but he wouldn't have been able to carry out his evil crime if he had not been able to freely and legally own a variety of firearms.

He even handed in a Kalashnikov-style rifle after Hungerford, for which he was compensated to the tune of £800 after writing to his MP.


He wouldn't have been able to carry out the crime without his friends in high places.


Why are the files closed for decades?
This would not happen with a normal crime.

If you only turn up to moan then do it elsewhere
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 07:55

Dunblane aside, Scotland doesn't seem to have a problem with gun ownership; in comparison to USA, it is miniscule. I seem to remember reading not so long ago that there were only about 600 gun-owner licences in Scotland.

In Australia, we have had very powerful gun legislation since the Port Arthur massacre back in the late nineties. Generally speaking, it seems to have worked very well.

However, the issue of knives is quite another matter. I have seen some horrendous knives on sale at markets around the country that have come from Japan, Russia and China. They clearly are not for use in the kitchen or the tool shed and cater for evil intent.

I don't know what the situation is in the UK, but I would certainly like to see those weapons banned here.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 12:02

AAPS-Corporate America have actually made a stand when it comes selling and investment in gun companies.Walmart,Dick's sporting goods,Wells Fargo JP Morgan,Bank of America all made statements that they would stop selling/investing automatic rifles and their companies.

Will these actions change anything?You would like to hope so.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 13:00

Unless relevant regulations have changed since Dunblane, which I doubt, even military units need a regular firearms licence to have privately held firearms - commonly 0.22 inch target rifles used for entries in non service smallbore competitions.

It would be interesting to know if these are included in the figure of 600 licence holders in Scotland.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 13:37

Quote:

richie5401, Thu 1 Nov 12:02

AAPS-Corporate America have actually made a stand when it comes selling and investment in gun companies.Walmart,Dick's sporting goods,Wells Fargo JP Morgan,Bank of America all made statements that they would stop selling/investing automatic rifles and their companies.

Will these actions change anything?You would like to hope so.


I'm going to say something that I agree with you about.

A partial gun ban won't work.

Restricted ownership won't work.

Only a total ban such as the UK and Australia did will stop this madness.

Now, you probably laugh right now because this wont ever happen but what if even one state adopted this for a number of years to compare statistics from A to B?
It could inspire the rest if a very noticeable difference is there.

Small changes can make huge ones if you ignore the profit makers

If you only turn up to moan then do it elsewhere
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 13:49

You are right,it's big bucksvile when it comes to gun sales.

The theory of one state being gun free for a few years sounds good but would be difficult to implement.Why?You would have to build a wall,fortify it with police and armed guards to keep all those bad boys out who know folks are unarmed.

It's a sad truth but in practice that's how some folks are.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 14:05

Topic Originator: renegade master like | nolike
Date: Wed 31 Oct 16:45

'' GG I have owned guns since I was 12, I'm on the verge of the Scotland Clay Pigeon Team, I use my guns for my work and livelihood as I have done since I was a gamekeeper now a pest controller and it has never crossed my mind to ever want to hurt anyone with them.

I am certainly going to stand up for the rights of gun ownership, shooting is still taught in many schools in Scotland, Strathallan recently won the British National School Championships.

I also game shoot and feed my children freshly shot game.

But please retract and apologise regarding your statement that I subscribe to the flawed logic of Republican America because that is entirely incorrect and shows a blatant blinkered view of your choice and I find quite narrow minded from yourself.

My point throughout has been to say that people will kill others the weapons change due to conditions and circumstances.

Should demolition experts be denied explosives incase they decide to go and blow up a school?
Should school busses be banned incase the driver flips one day and decides to drive it off a cliff?

The list goes on!

We've banned knives in public places folk still get stabbed to death.''


First of all, I wish to apologise unreservedly for any offence caused - that was certainly not my intention. I can fully appreciate that you have had a passion for guns from young age and have always used them entirely legally in your line of work and as a hobby. I also understand that you do not - and never have - represented a danger to the British public.

Now for the tricky bit. I don't think I explained myself very well in my previous post and I apologise for that, too. I don't have a problem with the current gun laws in this country. I don't even have a problem with the American philosophy that ordinary citizens want the right to own a gun for the purpose of self defence. What I find indefensible is the kind of weapons which American citizens can buy, which go way beyond any reasonable need for self defence. Why would you need a weapon which fires multiple rounds of ammunition for self defence? (Btw, what's to stop a law abiding citizen, with no criminal record from buying such weapons and selling them on to some shady character for a handsome profit?)

If you believe the widespread availability of such weapons does not contribute to the USA's shocking record of gun murders, you're in a tiny minority in this country. Americans are far more relaxed about this and regularly spout that ''it's not guns that kill people, it's people that kill people.'' Well maybe so, but I reckon it's pretty difficult to shoot anybody if you don't have a gun. For sure, if someone wants to kill someone else, they can go out of their way to find a someone who will sell them a gun, but it makes it more difficult for the would be killer and therefore less likely. Do you lock your doors and windows at night? Why not leave them open, because if a burglar is intent on breaking into your house, he'll find a way to do it?

So, I reiterate my apology for the offence caused to you, but I cannot retract my statement that you appear to subscribe to flawed American logic. You are at liberty to consider this stance as blinkered and narrow minded, but I find myself at odds with your conclusion.

I hope we can agree to differ on this and still remain civil to one another and respect that different people can have different opinions on the same subject. I won't try to convince you that I'm right and your wrong and neither should you, because we're both firm and sincere in what we believe.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 16:20

Quote:

richie5401, Thu 1 Nov 13:49

You are right,it's big bucksvile when it comes to gun sales.

The theory of one state being gun free for a few years sounds good but would be difficult to implement.Why?You would have to build a wall,fortify it with police and armed guards to keep all those bad boys out who know folks are unarmed.

It's a sad truth but in practice that's how some folks are.


Not really.
Of course you can't prevent someone from out of state killing but you can gather data from the people within it?

If , as I think the death rate will fall then the others will take notice and follow suit?

If you only turn up to moan then do it elsewhere
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: richie5401  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 19:44

Probably have to try it in California or New York,maybe Massachusetts.

The problem is even in those states there are folks who wouldn't give up their guns.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 20:25

GG Thank You, and I won't remonstrate on any of the points we differ on.

The one thing I would say (without prejudice) having used many guns over the years including some of the weapons you mention.

If someone wanted to kill as many folk as possible they should use a vehicle in a densely pedestrianised area!

If someone wanted to make headlines and cause as much grief to authorities and government they should use a gun.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 20:42

"He even handed in a Kalashnikov-style rifle after Hungerford, for which he was compensated to the tune of £800 after writing to his MP."

Which, as you say, would have been legally held at the time, and which the police would have on record - so surrendering it was no remarkable gesture, knowing it would be confiscated anyway.

The real issue with Hamilton's licence was why it was renewed after a police sergeant who reviewed his application recommended it be revoked but was overruled by a senior officer.
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Thu 1 Nov 20:52

VEE Jimmy Saville could answer that question if he was still alive ;-)
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 Re: Another USA shooting spree
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 2 Nov 12:27

What question ?

"Why are the files closed for decades?
This would not happen with a normal crime."

Were not most opened to the public in 2005 by the Lord Advocate ?



Post Edited (Fri 02 Nov 15:27)
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