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 Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: dave67  
Date:   Tue 21 May 08:04

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48315979

The first major legal challenge to police use of automated facial recognition surveillance begins in Cardiff later.

Ed Bridges, whose image was taken while he was shopping, says weak regulation means AFR breaches human rights.

The civil rights group Liberty says current use of the tool is equivalent to the unregulated taking of DNA or fingerprints without consent.

South Wales Police defends the tool but has not commented on the case.

In December 2017, Ed Bridges was having a perfectly normal day.

"I popped out of the office to do a bit of Christmas shopping and on the main pedestrian shopping street in Cardiff, there was a police van," he told BBC News.

"By the time I was close enough to see the words 'automatic facial recognition' on the van, I had already had my data captured by it.

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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 21 May 12:46

It happens at every airport now.

I was at the Calvin Harris gig at Glasgow and at TRNSMT and the police were on the stage between acts scanning the crowd, every so often someone would be lifted by undercover officers in the crowd.

I asked the Police what was going on, they told me they were exercising arrest warrants using facial recognition.
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Tue 21 May 13:17

I'll be personally covering my face more often now I think. Don't trust the police or Government in this country to not make an absolute c*ck-up of this.

Awaiting the 'Nothing to fear if you've done nothing wrong' crap that always gets spouted by half-wits
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Tue 21 May 15:27

Quote:

Andrew283, Tue 21 May 13:17

I'll be personally covering my face more often now I think. Don't trust the police or Government in this country to not make an absolute c*ck-up of this.

Awaiting the 'Nothing to fear if you've done nothing wrong' crap that always gets spouted by half-wits


Half-wits and cowards.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 21 May 15:35

If you have a passport and/or photo driving licence your mug is on file - likewise a bus pass for us auld farts.

One the topic of half wits, covering your face will only attract attention and suspicion.
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Tue 21 May 17:26

Quote:

veteraneastender, Tue 21 May 15:35

If you have a passport and/or photo driving licence your mug is on file - likewise a bus pass for us auld farts.

One the topic of half wits, covering your face will only attract attention and suspicion.


Indeed. It's not like we are invisible. And you would be amazed who can get access to your DVLA records.

Post Edited (Tue 21 May 17:28)
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Tue 21 May 17:38

"Awaiting the 'Nothing to fear if you've done nothing wrong' crap that always gets spouted by half-wits"

Just out of interest, what is it you're afraid of particularly?
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Tue 21 May 18:41

Just as well no other ugly gits look like me so I'm safe from mistakes.
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Tue 21 May 21:41

Not long until Robocop now. Cool!
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Tue 21 May 21:58

Quote:

kelty_par, Tue 21 May 17:38

"Awaiting the 'Nothing to fear if you've done nothing wrong' crap that always gets spouted by half-wits"

Just out of interest, what is it you're afraid of particularly?


Perhaps the ever looming prospect of a complete police state that Britain is moving towards? We already have more CCTV cameras per person than any country on earth. Factor in widespread facial recognition and the Government /Police will know exactly where everyone is, at any given time.

Have a look at China and their citizen score for exactly what this kind of BS leads to.

Regarding forms of ID like passports, drivers licenses etc, when did these become compulsory to have? I own both because they benefit me and have a purpose but I don't need either to live.

Post Edited (Tue 21 May 22:01)
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 21 May 22:34

"I own both because they benefit me and have a purpose but I don't need either to live."

Try opening a bank account etc. without official UK government issued photo ID.
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Tue 21 May 23:29

A birth certificate is often sufficient alongside proper proof of address to open a bank account. Different banks, and different staff within different branches, have different policies.

Official, government issued, photo id isn't always required - the bank just has to be sure of the person's identity.

Ich bin ein auslander.
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Tue 21 May 23:45

The distinction between compulsory and voluntary ID is very important.

Every totalitarian state justifies its actions by claiming it is only codifying what citizens are doing already. In the UK we have never had compulsory ID, outside of wartime, nor a requirement to register with the local police. It’s a precious liberty and not one to be lightly handed over. Winston Churchill’s government abolished ID cards in 1952 much to the chagrin of the police and security services. Imagine what the Daily Mail and Daily Express would have made of that today! Probably get a turnip imposed on his head.

The CCTV virus has been sold to the public on the basis that it prevents crime; we even had a programme called ‘Crimewatch’ which celebrated this notion. In truth, CCTV might record crime and make conviction easier; it does not prevent crime. The daily knifing deaths in London are evidence of that.
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 21 May 23:48

Face recognition and finger prints are nothing to worry about.

Here is what really matters.
Rev:13 16-17
Trump (The Little Horn) pushing the compulsory use of biometric tracking.
Kinda strange the RFID chip is being manufactured in "The Great Boaster, Father of Lies, Mammon Lover's building.
What's it called now....ah yes, the 666 building.
Pfffft nah its all just coincidence.
Collaboration with Gog of Magog, "Fooling even the elect - if it was possible" (well any antichrist could spin the fascist hick evangelical biggoted pseudo Christians), pretending to support Israel....Hmmmm! "Time, Times and Half of Time."
Watch out Israel he's going to turn.
Well lots to research there lol 🤪😇🙏

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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: kelty_par  
Date:   Wed 22 May 06:42

Come on now Andrew, a police state? Comparing us to China? That's a very long way off, if it ever happens at all.
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Wed 22 May 07:03

Quote:

kelty_par, Wed 22 May 06:42

Come on now Andrew, a police state? Comparing us to China? That's a very long way off, if it ever happens at all.


You really think if the Tories get to rewrite our human rights we'll be far off?

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 22 May 08:00

In a police state you wouldn’t have the option of not having state issued photo ID - and you wouldn’t have normally unarmed cops either.

They’ve had national ID cards in many EU countries for decades and it is compulsory to carry them on your person.

As for living without a driving licence and passport, that would be an existence, not a life.

Imagine not being able to drive anywhere (legally) or not being able to travel outwith the U.K. - I doubt that’ll catch on anytime soon.
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Wed 22 May 08:12

I don't have a photo licence but I still drive around without any worries.
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 22 May 08:33

Quote:

Rastapari, Wed 22 May 07:03

Quote:

kelty_par, Wed 22 May 06:42

Come on now Andrew, a police state? Comparing us to China? That's a very long way off, if it ever happens at all.


You really think if the Tories get to rewrite our human rights we'll be far off?


It's not a case of if, it's already started happening. They've very kindly omitted the protections of the Charter of Fundamental Rights from the Brexit Bill. Privacy rights are obviously a part of that.
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 22 May 08:54

"I don't have a photo licence but I still drive around without any worries."

'Er indoors had to renew her old paper licence recently, DVLA accessed her photo from previous passport application.

The old green licences are being phased out, and I don't think they are accepted outside the UK ?


"A birth certificate is often sufficient alongside proper proof of address to open a bank account. Different banks, and different staff within different branches, have different policies.

Official, government issued, photo id isn't always required - the bank just has to be sure of the person's identity."

You are quite correct Wotsit, however I think the majority (possibly by a large %) require photo ID as their default position - if you have a passport or photo driving licence the birth certificate is irrelevant.

By chance, I was looking to purchase a railcard online last night, it required a passport or photo driving licence issue number. otherwise a visit in person to an issuing station with birth certificate.
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 25 May 08:27

"We already have more CCTV cameras per person than any country on earth"

An unfortunate aspect of modern society, however as they help in the fight against crime.............................

For example, I watched a programme last night on the Hatton Garden robbery from 2015 - CCTV and ANPR cameras played a crucial role solving the case.

I got a speeding ticket recently, based on camera evidence - self inflicted, nobody else to blame.



Post Edited (Sat 25 May 08:29)
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sat 25 May 12:01

I always think back to the London Bridge/Southwark attacks and how quickly the perpetrators and their associates were caught. All largely down to CCTV and great police work.

It is a difficult issue in terms of personal freedoms but on balance I can see the argument for "the greater good" winning out for the moment.

The dystopian world that already exists in China, where your face reveals on a screen how many society points you are worth, may be some way off yet in the West, but it will require supreme vigilance on the part of the public to keep it that way.

As the years go by, the more I become convinced that George Orwell was put on this earth for a reason.
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 25 May 12:41

We were in China a few years ago - to access the internet at Beijing airport (airside) foreign visitors had to insert their passport photo page into a scanner and be registered.

Certain websites that are available in the West are not accessible to Chinese users.

Big Brother is certainly censoring over there.
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 25 May 16:00

How about facial recognition for the season tickets?

Make up artists could get regular employment!😝😜😜
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sat 25 May 17:00

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sat 25 May 08:27

"We already have more CCTV cameras per person than any country on earth"

An unfortunate aspect of modern society, however as they help in the fight against crime.............................

For example, I watched a programme last night on the Hatton Garden robbery from 2015 - CCTV and ANPR cameras played a crucial role solving the case.

I got a speeding ticket recently, based on camera evidence - self inflicted, nobody else to blame.


Recent studies have shown whilst they result in more convictions they do not stop crimes.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 25 May 17:46

That does not constitute a logical argument for not having them, in fact quite the opposite.

If crime could be eliminated then they would be redundant.
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: Jbob  
Date:   Sat 25 May 18:45

Paranoia rules........

Bobs of the world unite
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sun 26 May 08:04

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sat 25 May 17:46

That does not constitute a logical argument for not having them, in fact quite the opposite.

If crime could be eliminated then they would be redundant.


Didn't say it did, just saying even the police on your beloved BBC News the other day accepted cameras do not prevent crime, just records it.
It would be fine if the law was equally doled out but it's just not the case.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sun 26 May 09:50

Strange thing for the police to say.

It probably doesn't prevent hardened criminals but I cant believe many opportunists haven't been deterred by cameras.



Post Edited (Sun 26 May 09:51)
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sun 26 May 10:56

I think theres a difference between the effect on crimes like theft and violent crimes.

The reports I saw said they helped reduce car theft and burglaries etc but that was often in conjunction with other measures such as improved lighting and fencing which are obviously far cheaper.

There was no change to violent crime rates apparently.
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 26 May 12:49

"Didn't say it did, just saying even the police on your beloved BBC News the other day accepted cameras do not prevent crime, just records it.
It would be fine if the law was equally doled out but it's just not the case."

Reverting back to your snide little remarks I see ? Any excuse to get in a personal dig it seems.

Let's stick to the issue.

If CCTV helps the rate of convictions for crimes already commited then it justifies its existence IMO.

To say it doesn't prevent crime is a dubious claim - it must have some deterrent effect.

I have absolutely no idea what the last sentence of the above means, presumably part of your parallel agenda ?
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 26 May 15:32

The property crime which would have previously taken place in view of the cameras is now taking place elsewhere.

This is helping with the concentration of petty crime into ghettos, into areas where people are already facing multiple disadvantages and are, from what I can see, essentially written off. Even if they do have CCTV police resources in these areas are overstretched so crimes aren't even investigated.

In Edinburgh I'm thinking of places like Niddrie or Wester Hailes where Community Centres and libraries have to deal with groups of rampaging teens almost every evening. All caught on CCTV, none of it ever acted on by police and instead it has to be dealt with by overstretched and untrained council staff. This also has the knock-on of council staff having damaged relationships with the young folk and residents in the area receiving less of a service because so many resources are being used to perform tasks usually associated with the police.

Now, imagine a gang of aggressive teenagers roaming around Morningside library, breaking the toilets or insulting the staff and laidies-who-lunch. Or the University library. different police response then I bet.

tl;dr: Rasta is right: crime in this country is not policed evenly.

Ich bin ein auslander.

Post Edited (Sun 26 May 15:33)
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sun 26 May 15:50

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sun 26 May 12:49

"Didn't say it did, just saying even the police on your beloved BBC News the other day accepted cameras do not prevent crime, just records it.
It would be fine if the law was equally doled out but it's just not the case."

Reverting back to your snide little remarks I see ? Any excuse to get in a personal dig it seems.

Let's stick to the issue.

If CCTV helps the rate of convictions for crimes already commited then it justifies its existence IMO.

To say it doesn't prevent crime is a dubious claim - it must have some deterrent effect.

I have absolutely no idea what the last sentence of the above means, presumably part of your parallel agenda ?


I respond to you in kind you revisionist cretin.

I Hope You're Ok Today....

Post Edited (Sun 26 May 15:50)
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 26 May 16:36

Good grief.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 26 May 18:47

"I respond to you in kind you revisionist cretin."

Aye, peurile personal insults seem to be your forte right enough.
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Sun 26 May 20:29

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sun 26 May 18:47

"I respond to you in kind you revisionist cretin."

Aye, peurile personal insults seem to be your forte right enough.


Yes. Seems a bit childish and just negates any proper point being made.
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 26 May 20:35

Rasta is clearly intelligent and educated, never really understood the compulsion to bad mouth other folks.

Anyway, I'm away to watch the last two episodes of Cardinal from last night.
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Mon 27 May 07:46

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sun 26 May 20:35

Rasta is clearly intelligent and educated, never really understood the compulsion to bad mouth other folks.

Anyway, I'm away to watch the last two episodes of Cardinal from last night.


I put up with insults from you nearly every time i post, I'm just more direct than you.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 27 May 08:43

Unreal petulance.

Having a pet theory etc. ridiculed is not an insult.
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 Re: Police facial recognition surveillance court case starts
Topic Originator: Jbob  
Date:   Mon 27 May 18:30

Rasta your insults take away from your posts.

I don't agree with most of them but you would be better served by playing the ball and not the man.

Bobs of the world unite
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