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 Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sun 7 Jul 19:04

Paedophile pal Epstein arrested, wonder if that sex slave story will stay hidden or resurface?

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 7 Jul 19:48

Is this another hidden secret conspiracy busted. The rich and powerful protected again.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Mon 8 Jul 08:38

Never liked Andrew. Always seemed to get himself into dodgy situations, suggesting (perhaps quite strongly) that he is, actually, dodgy.

Don't usually go for conspiracy theories, but there sure are a lot of big names getting mentioned in this Epstein case.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Mon 8 Jul 10:50

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 7 Jul 19:48

Is this another hidden secret conspiracy busted. The rich and powerful protected again.


Witnesses paid off, I know if I was innocent not one penny would be parted with.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Mon 8 Jul 23:58

Quote:

OzPar, Mon 8 Jul 08:38

Don't usually go for conspiracy theories, but there sure are a lot of big names getting mentioned in this Epstein case.


“He’s a lot of fun to be with... ... it is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.” Donald Trump on Epstein in 2002.

Also, the guy who got Epstein such a ridiculously lenient deal is now in Trump's cabinet.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.


Post Edited (Mon 08 Jul 23:58)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 9 Jul 10:02

I wonder what the Mike Pence sudden emergency disappearance that, "Will take a few weeks to explain" is all about.

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Wed 10 Jul 06:55

Quote:

PARrot, Tue 9 Jul 10:02

I wonder what the Mike Pence sudden emergency disappearance that, "Will take a few weeks to explain" is all about.


I'm wondering where .net's establishment defence league has gone😂

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 10 Jul 09:23

I’ve never heard of Mike Pence, what’s his claim to “fame” ?

That apart, Carl Beech’s revelations at Newcastle Crown Court anybody ?

Convicted peadophiles make good witnesses right enough.

Update - VPOTNUS - the name didn’t register !!!



Post Edited (Wed 10 Jul 09:59)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Wed 10 Jul 18:16

Quote:

veteraneastender, Wed 10 Jul 09:23

I’ve never heard of Mike Pence, what’s his claim to “fame” ?

That apart, Carl Beech’s revelations at Newcastle Crown Court anybody ?

Convicted peadophiles make good witnesses right enough.

Update - VPOTNUS - the name didn’t register !!!


Yep. Doing some cleaning up for the Trumpet methinks.

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 10 Jul 18:31

Nothing would surprise me about Trump and his inner circle.

Still embarrassed that I could’nt recognise the name of VPOTUS.

DOH !!!
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Wed 10 Jul 19:18

Aye that's a hammer blow to your rep VE. 😁👍

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 10 Jul 20:53

He could sit next to me in the Norrie and I’d be none the wiser !!!
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 10 Jul 22:02

Don't worry, vee, he probably wouldn't know you either.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Thu 11 Jul 06:51

Child sex trafficking involving powerful public figures.....aaaaaand here come the usual laughing and joking.
And folks wonder why they get away with it.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Thu 11 Jul 07:54

Out of order Rasta. Nobody is joking about it.

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 11 Jul 08:51

It seems this guy isn't getting away with it though despite being rich and powerful. Of course if people didn't make allegedly false reports about the rich and powerful being involved in this vile and disgusting abuse then genuine claims would stand out more prominently. You'd almost think that some of the more outlandish claims were deliberately put out there for that very purpose.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 11 Jul 09:46

What Parrot said.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey  
Date:   Thu 11 Jul 10:35

"And folks wonder why they get away with it."

Yep because a couple of people on a Dunfermline forum talking about the relative anonymity of Mike Pence is sure to result in them getting away with it.

Over-reaction, much ?
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Thu 11 Jul 11:26

<<Of course if people didn't make allegedly false reports about the rich and powerful being involved in this vile and disgusting abuse then genuine claims would stand out more prominently. >>


Absolutely hit nail on the head there, TOWK.

While those QAnon clowns were inventing the fantasy of Pizzagate which, let's not forget, was repeated on here ad infinitum by certain posters, the real crimes were occurring in plain sight in Manhatten, Florida and the Virgin Islands.

I wouldn't be too confident that Epstein will get what's coming to him. There is already talk of a plea bargain where, in exchange for a much-reduced five-year sentence (out in two years or so), Epstein provides the names of those who paid him to have sex with children.

But here's the thing: The really big names would never need to hand over money for such things; it would be seen as a gift from Epstein to be redeemed, one way or another, later.

And so, those prominent men we would most like to see exposed and taken to task, escape Scot-free... as per usual.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 11 Jul 12:48

"Of course if people didn't make allegedly false reports about the rich and powerful being involved in this vile and disgusting abuse then genuine claims would stand out more prominently."

Absolutely.

The issue for the police is that they have to investigate all claims, and be seen to be investigating them.

However when there is clear and strong evidence to indicate allegations as false then the claimant(s) should face the consequences, then perhaps we might expect a reduction in malicious accusations.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Thu 11 Jul 13:01

Quote:

veteraneastender, Thu 11 Jul 12:48

"Of course if people didn't make allegedly false reports about the rich and powerful being involved in this vile and disgusting abuse then genuine claims would stand out more prominently."

Absolutely.

The issue for the police is that they have to investigate all claims, and be seen to be investigating them.

However when there is clear and strong evidence to indicate allegations as false then the claimant(s) should face the consequences, then perhaps we might expect a reduction in malicious accusations.


It's hard enough for people who have been abused to come forward as they think they won't be believed.
Now you want them to run the risk of being jailed themselves if their abuser says it is a "malicious accusation "
Bring this in and expect to see an increase in kids being raped as paedophiles escape justice and are free to continue.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 11 Jul 13:09

No - there would have to be strong and clear evidence that the allegations are false.

One persons word against the other does not fall into that category.



Post Edited (Thu 11 Jul 13:09)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Thu 11 Jul 13:25

Quote:

veteraneastender, Thu 11 Jul 13:09

No - there would have to be strong and clear evidence that the allegations are false.

One persons word against the other does not fall into that category.


You say that but victims would be more afraid to come forward leading to more kids being raped.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 11 Jul 16:34

I don’t buy that, sorry.

Opinions differ.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 11 Jul 21:11

You don't have to buy it, it's not a matter of opinion, it is an established fact that people who have been raped and abused tend not to act according to your standard of logic or common sense.

Trauma is a hell of a drug.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 11 Jul 21:36

VE isn't disputing that though.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 11 Jul 21:57

He's disputing the fact that many people will be even more afraid to come forward.

When, by doing so, they open themselves up to criminal charges, a risk which they wouldn't face if they didn't come forward.

That's not open to debate: it is an established fact.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 11 Jul 22:07

Some people, not all, not even a sizable minority, do make false claims. That's an established fact.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 11 Jul 22:12

And prosecuting them isn't the answer.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 11 Jul 22:15

Well yes it is. If its malicious, if its totally unfounded.

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 11 Jul 22:56

"And prosecuting them isn't the answer."

It is if there is clear and credible evidence that their accusations are false and malicious.

Or maybe you think that Carl Beech (for example) should not be facing criminal charges ?
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Thu 11 Jul 23:27

Yeah sorry, but I agree with VEE here. The whole system needs completely reworked for how cars involving rape etc happen as right now you can get instances like the Neymar case, where there is blatant proof the girl has tried to frame him, even going so far as to try and secretly record him from the bathroom, whilst goading him to strike her by hitting him herself. Not a chance in hell someone like that should be free to continue gallivanting around when if she hadn't made such an utter erse of her attempt, his entire career, reputation would be ruined and he'd likely see serious jail time.

On the other hand, its already nigh on impossible to prove without a doubt rape has occurred if not reported almost immediately.

Frankly there's no ideal system I can think of, but I really think first cases should remain totally anonymous until after court proceedings etc have finished, and if found guilty, then it can be reported upon and further victims brought forward. The system is currently far too open for abuse
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey  
Date:   Fri 12 Jul 11:22

"And prosecuting them isn't the answer."

What is the answer then, great wise one?

Anybody proven to be making deliberately false accusations - particular ones as vile as these - should feel the full weight of the law. No exceptions.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 12 Jul 16:00

So you are happy to prevent rape victims from feeling comfortable about coming forward for fear of imprisonment?

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey  
Date:   Fri 12 Jul 16:53

No rape victim should have anything to feel uncomfortable if they're telling the truth as justice will - or at least should - be served.

You, on the other hand seem comfortable with the idea that perfectly innocent people should be outed as guilty and have their lives destroyed?

Only one person should be questioning themselves here and it sure isn't me
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 12 Jul 17:17

Oh, they shouldn't feel uncomfortable should they?

That's them telt!

I'll just tell the victims of the thousands of rapes that go unreported that their trauma from having been violated is imaginary, according to world's most pompous man, and the problem will be solved.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.


Post Edited (Fri 12 Jul 17:18)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Fri 12 Jul 17:38

Quote:

Wotsit, Fri 12 Jul 17:17

Oh, they shouldn't feel uncomfortable should they?

That's them telt!

I'll just tell the victims of the thousands of rapes that go unreported that their trauma from having been violated is imaginary, according to world's most pompous man, and the problem will be solved.


All victims and accused deserve the right to anonymity until the trials are over. Then the accused is either convicted or not. If not it should be down to the judge whether the victims name can be released. Because as we know even if not convicted it doesn't mean they are innocent.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey  
Date:   Fri 12 Jul 18:01

Nothing quite like having my words twisted, but then I'd expect no less from you.

A very close friend of mine was subject to such an assault at a very young age so I am very familiar with the trauma caused. What I meant - and shouldn't really have to explain myself - is that they should not fear reporting the crime if the crime actually happened.

And I stand by my point that anybody purposely falsifying an accusation should be hammered by the full force of the law
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 12 Jul 18:53

"I'll just tell the victims of the thousands of rapes that go unreported that their trauma from having been violated is imaginary, according to world's most pompous man, and the problem will be solved."

Lots of rape victims don't come forward because they can't face more trauma - such as an intimate medical examination and the possibility of having to face the alleged perpetrator in court, as well as the harrowing experience of cross examination by the defence counsel.

Not for fear of being prosecuted for false witness or perjury.

As moviescot says, such cases should be striclty anonymous, for the benefit of both parties until a verdict is reached.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Fri 12 Jul 20:17

Classy victim blaming....
Thank **** I know none of you in real life you utter cretins.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey  
Date:   Fri 12 Jul 20:44

"Thank **** I know none of you in real life you utter cretins."

Something I can finally agree with you on then.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 12 Jul 20:55

On the subject of victim’s Rasta, have you resigned from the Nick Fan Club yet, do you still reckon he’s still nothing more than a flawed character ?
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Fri 12 Jul 21:05

Quote:

veteraneastender, Fri 12 Jul 20:55

On the subject of victim’s Rasta, have you resigned from the Nick Fan Club yet, do you still reckon he’s still nothing more than a flawed character ?


What evidence do the police have he lied?
Not been following trial so just wondering.

The one thing I saw was that he had said he was terrified of water and they had photos of him in the sea.
Seemed flimsy to me as I am scared of water as I nearly drowned once but have still been in the sea since.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 12 Jul 21:24

"What evidence do the police have he lied?
Not been following trial so just wondering."

By his own admission, for starters.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/08/vip-accuser-nick-admits-lied-police-court-hears/

Turns out he has a previous conviction for paedophilic tendancies as well.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Fri 12 Jul 21:50

Quote:

veteraneastender, Fri 12 Jul 21:24

"What evidence do the police have he lied?
Not been following trial so just wondering."

By his own admission, for starters.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/08/vip-accuser-nick-admits-lied-police-court-hears/

Turns out he has a previous conviction for paedophilic tendancies as well.


The fact he has himself got conviction for this makes him more credible not less since many victims go on to offend. They end up with a distorted image of adult/child relationships due to what happened to them.

Will read telegraph story when I get home later.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 12 Jul 22:05

"The fact he has himself got conviction for this makes him more credible not less since many victims go on to offend. They end up with a distorted image of adult/child relationships due to what happened to them."

I suspect you have misunderstood ?

Carl Beech was the perpetrator, not a victim.

He had illegal images of children on his laptop, hidden by two layers of innocent looking app logos (as I understand his camouflague attempt) - and he had taken video footage of a boy urinating.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 12 Jul 22:14

I'd like to think that we live in a world where the rights of a genuine victim are equal to those of someone wrongly accused of any crime.

It would appear not. Sad times.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sat 13 Jul 00:46

Quote:

veteraneastender, Fri 12 Jul 22:05

"The fact he has himself got conviction for this makes him more credible not less since many victims go on to offend. They end up with a distorted image of adult/child relationships due to what happened to them."

I suspect you have misunderstood ?

Carl Beech was the perpetrator, not a victim.

He had illegal images of children on his laptop, hidden by two layers of innocent looking app logos (as I understand his camouflague attempt) - and he had taken video footage of a boy urinating.


Think you misunderstood.
Victims of abuse often go on to be abusers.

Had a look at his "lies" to the police.
When first interviewed he said he didn't know the abusers identities.
He later revealed the names.
This would be pretty normal behaviour if he thought he wouldn't be taken seriously due to the high profile nature of the individual's he accused.

Have just read some background to the allegations.
He had been undergoing therapy for abuse for 2 years before the allegations were made to the police.

I have no doubt he has been a victim of abuse by someone.
I have no idea if those he accused were involved. He may well be guilty of fabricating that.
Be interesting to see how the trial goes.
So far I see no evidence presented that shows he is definitely lying.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sat 13 Jul 02:53

Quote:

Captain Desmond Fancey, Fri 12 Jul 18:01
they should not fear reporting the crime if the crime actually happened.

And I stand by my point that anybody purposely falsifying an accusation should be hammered by the full force of the law


I didn't twist your words then, did I? Because you repeated the pompous imposition that people shouldn't feel something when many definitely do.

And I stand by my statement that opening victims up to potential criminal charges as a result of reporting it if their coward rapist (or their lawyer) is manipulative enough, or they are confused enough, in court will put some people off reporting the crime.

It's also worth pointing out that wasting police time and perjury are already illegal, and will be charged when in the public interest, so do you want false rape allegations to be extra illegal? To have a law which specifically only applies to a person who reports a rape?

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.


Post Edited (Sat 13 Jul 02:57)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 13 Jul 07:36

"Have just read some background to the allegations"

Best read all the trial reports.

The famous quote attributed to Lincoln applies here IMO

"You can fool some of the people all of the time.....etc., etc."



Post Edited (Sat 13 Jul 07:59)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sat 13 Jul 11:37

Often when people have experience trauma they basically relive it whenever they talk about it, unless the topic is approached extremely sensitivity by a trained trauma practitioner.

Defence lawyers and police officers are not usually trained trauma practitioners, so the experience of being questioned in an adversarial way can illicit quite bizarre responses from people. Their thinking becomes extremely confused and erratic and fight or flight kicks in. People who have experienced trauma should never have to be exposed to this sort of questioning, it serves no useful purpose of our goal is to find the truth.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Sat 13 Jul 12:28

I understand a lot of viewpoints here, but let's take Neymars accuser as an example. After all the attempts of trying to get evidence of Neymar abusing her all she has proved is how crazy she is, should this woman go unpunished? I'm sorry but that is utter nonsense if you're in her court.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 13 Jul 12:58

"Defence lawyers and police officers are not usually trained trauma practitioners,"

The police have specially trained officers who deal with rape allegations operating within specalised dedicated units.

They work with appropriate external qualified personnel when assessing individual cases.

As for defence lawyers - they are quite at liberty to make the defendant take the stand and subject them to the same level and nature of intimate and personal questioning as the accuser.

Not a desirable scenario for either party, but that's the nature of our court system.



Post Edited (Sat 13 Jul 13:49)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sat 13 Jul 13:58

specially trained officers

But those are rare and rape is not.

There are still far too many stories of people being treated appallingly when they make an allegation of rape, or of people withdrawing the allegation because the process is too difficult.

The court ordeal is more than enough to put people off. Our court system rewards defence lawyers who make witnesses uncomfortable and distressed to the point where they doubt themselves and their evidence because they are being forced to relive, in intricate detail, a highly traumatic event, and they will probably be doing so for the second or third time as a result of choosing to report what happened to them.

I understand a lot of viewpoints here, but let's take Neymars accuser as an example. After all the attempts of trying to get evidence of Neymar abusing her all she has proved is how crazy she is, should this woman go unpunished? I'm sorry but that is utter nonsense if you're in her court.

Like I said, in most places it is already illegal to waste police time by making false reports and to lie in court. It's up to the authorities to determine whether or not to apply those laws in specific circumstances, but I see no good coming from making an extra law that specifically applies to people who report rape.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 13 Jul 14:40

"The court ordeal is more than enough to put people off."

Exactly what I said yesterday at 18:53.

"But those are rare and rape is not"

All 43 police forces in England and Wales have specially trained officers - and 1/3 of them operate within specialised units.

There should be one in every authority of course.

Scotland has its own specialised staff.



Post Edited (Sat 13 Jul 14:41)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sat 13 Jul 14:53

They don't have enough officers to process the rape kits; do you honestly think that everyone who provided this seemingly overwhelming backlog of evidence has been seen, at every stage, by a specially trained officer? I would say that it is reasonable to assume that this is nowhere near being the case, sadly.

And we all know that having attended a training course doesn't really mean anything: that training also needs to be applied.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 13 Jul 15:14

"I would say that it is reasonable to assume that this is nowhere near being the case, sadly."

Best that neither of us make assumptions.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sat 13 Jul 22:25

I see Epstein has got bail and is allowed out under house arrest. It's expected he will get some leniency for naming names. Whats the betting he will be found with half a dozen gunshots to the head having committed suicide
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 14 Jul 00:30

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sat 13 Jul 15:14

"I would say that it is reasonable to assume that this is nowhere near being the case, sadly."

Best that neither of us make assumptions.


I chose my words carefully, I backed them up and I stand by them.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sun 14 Jul 08:01

The usual suspects sticking up for establishment criminals.
Sickos.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 14 Jul 09:01

Trying too hard now Rasta.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 14 Jul 11:49

Which criminals Rasta ?

Name them etc.

Oops, I forgot ......... you don't do sources.



Post Edited (Sun 14 Jul 11:50)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 22 Jul 17:47

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/22/carl-beech-vip-paedophile-ring-claims-guilty

Justice served.

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 22 Jul 18:40

Several questions still to be answered.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 22 Jul 18:48

Such as VE?

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 22 Jul 18:54

Why did the CICA pay out £22,000 as compensation to Beech without credible evidence to support his claim that he had been abused ?

That was the basis of the fraud case against him which has now been proved.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 22 Jul 19:27

Ahh right. I thought you meant some of his victims still had questions against them.

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 22 Jul 19:52

It's now being reported that he tried to implicate the late John J Louis Jnr., former US Ambassador to the UK as well.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Mon 22 Jul 20:36

I see Epstein’s been denied bail.

His trial would be revelatory no doubt but I hope, for the sake of his alleged victims, that it doesn't come to that.

I suspect that others have other, more personal, reasons or fears about what could transpire in a trial which is why, I suspect, that the original plea-deal was so extraordinarily lenient - almost as if Epstein had a lot of leverage in the negotiations.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 22 Jul 21:13

But not enough leverage to be granted bail this time.

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Mon 22 Jul 22:25

Different circumstances this time - he's got form and there is a spotlight on previous leniency. A cabinet minister in the US has resigned because of it.

Bear in mind that his plea deal actually barred prosecutors from charging "any co-conspirators" in relation to his crimes - so anybody who committed crimes, no matter how egregious, connected with Epstein's activities, was basically given a free pass because the US Attorney agreed not to charge ANY of them.

That's not normal, is it?
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 22 Jul 22:27

That would seem unusual but then I'm not informed enough about other plea deals that the US attorney has given to other felons.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Mon 22 Jul 22:36

They can be quite generous with child sex offenders in an effort to avoid a traumatic trial, but this is apparently extremely lenient and then Acosta (the ex-US Attorney and Labor Secretary) lied about it then immediately resigned which, along with Acosta's failure to bring Federal charges (he was charged previously by the state of Florida), only makes it more suspicious in my opinion.

Certainly worth keeping an eye on anyway.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Tue 23 Jul 07:15

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sun 14 Jul 11:49

Which criminals Rasta ?

Name them etc.

Oops, I forgot ......... you don't do sources.


Been through this, you only trust the BBC and Mail.
Both sources whom have covered up paedophilia.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Tue 23 Jul 08:24

Are you referring to their lackluster reporting of Asian grooming gangs?

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 23 Jul 10:05

"Been through this, you only trust the BBC and Mail.
Both sources whom have covered up paedophilia."

Looks like the BBC got it 100% right to question and challenge the "Nick" accusations promoted by Mark Watts and Mark Conrad.

Incidentally, the Mail is not a "go to" source - although they did discredit Chris Fay on separate claims.

I prefer the longer established reliable media sources of which there are several - Exaro is not one of them.

Anyway, this ship has sailed - Carl Beech has now been exposed as a major league liar, money grabbing opportunist and paedophile.

Time to move on.



Post Edited (Tue 23 Jul 14:25)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Thu 25 Jul 12:36

Jeffrey Epstein was found unconscious in a Manhattan jail cell with injuries to his neck, US media reported late on Wednesday, citing unidentified sources.

Epstein was found by guards sprawled on the floor of his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center on Wednesday, it was reported.

The billionaire financier was taken to hospital, according to the New York Post, but it was unclear where he was taken or what his condition was. It was not clear how he suffered his injuries.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Thu 25 Jul 13:50

I'd expect him to end up dead before he can implicate others
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 25 Jul 14:18

tbf child sex offenders are targets in prison anyway (from guards as well as other prisoners) and Epstein is even more of a target because of his profile, so this is potentially just one among thousands of similar incidents of prison violence.

Prisons are violent enough if you aren't the most high profile child abuser in the world.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Thu 25 Jul 16:32

Wouldn't surprise me if he is murdered before he can reveal any names, if he ever planned to anyway
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 25 Jul 18:08

Given the names he could be giving I wouldn't be surprised if someone killed him in jail.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Thu 25 Jul 18:16

Quote:

jake89, Thu 25 Jul 18:08

Given the names he could be giving I wouldn't be surprised if someone killed him in jail.


The royal family got Diana knocked off for getting knocked up by a Muslim, so I would imagine the threat of randy andy being exposed as a child molester would mean a hit in jail would be perfectly feasible
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Fri 26 Jul 14:47

Carl Beech jailed for 18 years

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 26 Jul 15:05

Do you reckon Tom Watson, Mark Watts and Mark Conrad will visit him in jail ?

Maybe not, seeing as they helped put him there.



Post Edited (Fri 26 Jul 15:36)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 26 Jul 17:49

Those you named VE acted recklessly and irresponsibly but Beech put himself there.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 26 Jul 18:07

Beech was coached by Conrad in the first instance, then presented to the media by Watts as the star whistleblower.

If they had been honest and advised Beech that his "evidence" was unsound then it's questionable if he would have persisted with his allegations.

Watson has been despicable - he was driven by political motivation.

There is a well established protocol for MPs in these situations - they should deal with such matters unless the individual is a constituent, which Beech was not.

He meddled where he should not have, then hid behind the shield of Parliamentary privilege to make accusations, then refused to apologise when they were found to be false.

To think that creature is potentially a heartbeat away from being a future Prime Minister - God forbid.



Post Edited (Fri 26 Jul 18:07)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 26 Jul 18:09

Yes but the false allegation weren't the only charges that Beech faced

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 26 Jul 18:26

Would the compensation scam and/or the paedophile activities have come to light if he had not been investigated for the abuse allegations ?

Who knows ?

Regardless, that doesn't absolve the other supporting acts.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 26 Jul 19:10

No it doesn't but I don't like this guy being excused by even 1% for the crimes he committed.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 26 Jul 19:35

I really do wonder if he'd have got 18 years for making false paedophile and murder allegations against his social worker or wee bob down the road.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 26 Jul 19:39

He didn't just make false allegations though.

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 26 Jul 21:51

He had some indecent images of children on his PC - that still seems like a very heavy sentence.

You should get 18 years for killing someone, not for child porn and being a fantasist.

For instance, Ian Hughes, was found guilty in 2014 of possessing 8200 indecent images of children, including 800 of the “worst kind,” and he was sentenced to a 12-month custodial sentence.

He was a vicar though.

Do you think Ted Heath would have got 18 years if he had, in fact, physically and sexually abused young boys in the stste's care?

Cyril Smith didn't, despite it being an open secret.

Same with Jimmy Saville,

Neither of whom were ever found guilty in a court of law by the way, because they were protected from having to defend their heinous crimes.

If I were erring on the side of caution, I'd say that the balance should be in favour of vigorous investigation of all accusations with false ones like this, and the "Satanic Abuse" panic in the 80s and 90s acting to inform future investigations.

II'd much rather embarrass Ted Heath and Cliff Richard than let someone like Jimmy Saville roam around thinking he's allowed to do whatever he likes to whoever they like.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 26 Jul 22:07

Smith and Saville were dead when it became apparent what they had done. Other people who were dead were also the victims of Beech. They spent their last days with the shadow of these heinous crimes hanging over them, crimes that they knew they did not commit but that others were ready to condemn them over. Other people who were dead were also the loved ones of those falsely accused. They died possibly with a niggle of doubt in their minds over loved ones because of the filthy lies this man spread. You see its not just embarrassing to be the victim of false accusations like this, it's life destroying. Embarrassing is walking along a busy with your fly undone. Being wrongly accused of being a child murdering peadophile must be horrendous. Beech will spend years in prison but the damage is done for those who had no chance to defend themselves.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 26 Jul 22:24

Smith and Saville were dead when it became apparent what they had done.

Nope, they were dead before anyone listened to the victims who did come forward - it's not like either was hiding it.

They were dead so they couldn't use their wealth and power to protect themselves from the fact that it was openly acknowledged in certain circles (Saville in particular hid in plain sight and his predilections were even mentioned to Mrs T before she knighted him) what they were up to.

They were both, however, considered "too big to fail" and protected.

I stand by my assertion that 18 years is a gigantic sentence for what he was convicted of and that it's inflated because of who he accused.

He'd have got 10 at max if he'd accused Bob down the road, and five if he'd been a Vicar rather than an extremely vulnerable man who probably has learning difficulties and social problems.

The message here seems to be: You Come At the King,You Best Not Miss
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 26 Jul 22:32

I'd say it says if you come at the king don't be a lying piece of crap. Beech wasn't a man with learning difficulties and social problems though I'm not sure that what you're saying.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 26 Jul 22:52

My mistake, I don't know where I got that from - sorry about that and thanks for picking me up on it.

Even still, it seems like a steep sentence for the crimes.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Fri 26 Jul 22:57

[Post Deleted] - Deliberately provoking fellow DAFC.net poster(s)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 26 Jul 22:58

Wow. I'll accept your apology whenever your ready Red Star.

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 26 Jul 23:01

If the CICA had properley investigated Beech's earlier abuse claim and correctly made no award at that time this whole sorry mess might have never happened.

Incompetence and/or negligence ?

Is there any other explanation ?
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 26 Jul 23:06

"It's always the same people defending the paedophile elite on here."

You couldn't make this up, except perhaps on this forum.

There was only one paedophile identified in this investigation - Carl Beech.

If you wish to defend him - please present your case.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Sat 27 Jul 06:14

On the subject of Saville and other, there is a Johnny Rotten interview (banned at the time and now seems to be available to listen to) that names Saville and infers to what was happening at the time. He even states in the interview that it will never be aired, but this reference implies that it was well known what was happening, but who specifically protected Saville rather than using the BBC as a figurehead for this protection. I wonder if anyone has any material on this?
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Gem 1977  
Date:   Sat 27 Jul 10:20

Quote:

parsmad68, Sat 27 Jul 06:14

On the subject of Saville and other, there is a Johnny Rotten interview (banned at the time and now seems to be available to listen to) that names Saville and infers to what was happening at the time. He even states in the interview that it will never be aired, but this reference implies that it was well known what was happening, but who specifically protected Saville rather than using the BBC as a figurehead for this protection. I wonder if anyone has any material on this?


He discussed it with Piers Morgan
https://youtu.be/esKnWAIgpLY

Here's to the first of the day, fellas! To old D.H. Lawrence.
Neh! Neh! Neh! Fuh! Fuh! Fuh! Indians

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Jbob  
Date:   Wed 31 Jul 18:57

More institutional abuse in the news today from the 60's onwards in 2 shires in England. Truth is sadly that the stories that are coming out are just the tip of the iceberg. It shouldn't only be the celebs that are being pursued.

Bobs of the world unite
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Wed 31 Jul 19:44

We still have some of the same attitudes, in some of our institutions, which can lead to or allow abuse.

The recent Rotherham case was a big one. Folk were focussed on the fact that the abusers were from Muslim backgrounds but there was no mention made of how they got away with it for so long and in plain sight.

Basically, the local authorities viewed the girls who were being abused as "troublesome attention seekers" and "dirty little sl*gs" and completely ignoring the abuse.

There are thought to be over 100 police officers involved and the IPCC has already identified 70 officers who were implicated in worngdoing by the findings of the Jay Report into Child Sexual Exploitation in Rotherham..

The barrier for the authorities wasn't the race or religion of the perpetrators so much as it was the socio-economic position of the victims. They came from difficult backgrounds with traumatic lives filled with the most horrific abuse who may have, as a result, engaged in antisocial behaviour.

Their trauma and the behaviour they displayed as a result meant that the authorities didn't see them as reliable witnesses.

So they were viewed as the problem and their abusers were free to get on with it right in front of everybody.

It's exactly the same pattern as Savile and Smith.

And that's why it's better to take such accusations seriously imo.

What happened to Cliff Richard was awful, but it's nothing compared to what happened to those girls.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 31 Jul 22:45

The retired High Court judge who conducted the review into the Met’s handling of the Beech investigation is now recommending a public inquiry into their conduct, with potential criminal charges for illegal search warrants.

What a mess.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 08:51

Kitty's day will come.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 09:24

And so it continues.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 10:29

Yawn (in spades) - time some folks looked for a new conspiracy.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 18:23

But there are definitely conspiracies around child sex rings (that's why they are "rings")- they have been being exposed at the rate of one or two a year for decades now with people at all levels of society involved.

Margaret Thatcher was fully aware of Savile's predilections but still went out of her way to get him a knighthood.

Why would she do that? What possible reason would she have to press for a knighthood for a man who she knew to be a paedophile and who she had been advised was most likely a necrophile?

That she received repeated warnings from Civil Servants re Savile is a matter of public record.

Which means that "the establishment" knew full well what he was up to.

So until this conspiracy stops being so insidious and pervasive I think that I, personally, will stick with this one. It is a proven conspiracy fact, with mountains of evidence and patterns of behaviour that need to stop because thousands of children are being irreparably hurt by it, and it is happening practically in the open.



The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.

Post Edited (Thu 01 Aug 18:57)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 19:52

Who is disputing the Savile scenario ?
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 21:06

I'm discussing the authorities' responses to allegations of organised abuse of children, not just the Savile case (although it is the most prominent) and attempts to cover it up.

There's the various churches.
Children's homes all over the UK.
Cases such as Rotherham.
Cyril Smith.
and far too many more.

These are all cases where ongoing abuse was allowed to continue because the perpetrators were allowed to undermine the testimony of traumatised and emotionally vulnerable young people and continue raping children, in plain sight of the authorities. i.e. conspiracies.

If the price to be paid for a robust and thorough approach to investigating allegations is that more people are questioned about stuff that didn't happen then fair enough.

I'm normally the first the rattle on about people's privacy and right to exist without the authorities snooping on their private lives, butt he power dynamic at play in cases of child abuse mean that it is often reasonable to peer a little closer in my opinion.

Put it this way, if it becomes reasonably common to be investigated, and exonerated, then the stigma will soon disappear and we can move on as a society safe in the knowledge that those with whom we entrust our kids are not abusing that trust.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 1 Aug 22:57

"If the price to be paid for a robust and thorough approach to investigating allegations is that more people are questioned about stuff that didn't happen then fair enough."

The fallout from the Cliff Richard case followed by the revelations of the Carl Beech trial are very likely to initiate a root and branch review of the way such allegations are initially investigated and any subsequent action if appropriate.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 2 Aug 18:35

very likely to initiate a root and branch review of the way such allegations are initially investigated and any subsequent action if appropriate.

I'm sure they will VEE, but not in a way that will make it easier to catch paedophiles or protect their victims. Quite the opposite I fear.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Fri 2 Aug 22:58

Quote:

Wotsit, Fri 2 Aug 18:35

very likely to initiate a root and branch review of the way such allegations are initially investigated and any subsequent action if appropriate.

I'm sure they will VEE, but not in a way that will make it easier to catch paedophiles or protect their victims. Quite the opposite I fear.


It'll all come out when they're dead and the usual suspects will deny all knowledge...rinse and repeat.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 3 Aug 14:30

"It'll all come out when they're dead and the usual suspects will deny all knowledge...rinse and repeat."

How do the "usual suspects" deny all knowledge when they are dead ?

The accusations against Heath, Janner and Brittan. all now deceased, have been proven false.

Likewise the allegations against the living such as Lord Bramall and others.

Beech's trial concluded that there was no organised Westminster paedophile ring, similarly the stories of child abuse, torture and murder at Dolphin Square don't stand scrutiny.



Post Edited (Sat 03 Aug 14:31)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Big T Par  
Date:   Sat 10 Aug 09:04

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/co6r2d/jeffrey_epstein_accuser_names_powerful_men_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sat 10 Aug 09:41

Quote:

Big T Par, Sat 10 Aug 09:04

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/co6r2d/jeffrey_epstein_accuser_names_powerful_men_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app


Unfortunately the enablers on here would have to see these via the paedophile protecting bbc to believe it.
NXVIM, Epstein at al won't exist until then.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 10 Aug 14:15

Dead. "Suicide".
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Sat 10 Aug 14:20

That’s convenient
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sat 10 Aug 14:44

Another suicided...
No doubt the enablers will be on here crying an innocent man has been hounded to death.
So that's the Clintons and Royals off the hook.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sat 10 Aug 16:36

It does seem strange that a high profile prisoner with a previous, recent, suicide attempt was given the opportunity to try again. And a day after the Price Andrew revalation

It's almost as if somebody was turning a blind eye.

They probably put him in a cell with knotted sheets hanging from the ceiling then acted shocked when they came back a week later to find him dead.

I joke, but in all seriousness it is an absolute disgrace that this man wasn't on 24/7 suicide watch.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sat 10 Aug 17:07

Cardiac arrest, according to main reports.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sat 10 Aug 18:21

Quote:

OzPar, Sat 10 Aug 17:07

Cardiac arrest, according to main reports.


Easy done.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sat 10 Aug 18:38

We all knew it was going to happen, surprised it took so long. I wonder if anyone managed to get the important videos before they were dealt with.

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sat 10 Aug 19:03

Quote:

PARrot, Sat 10 Aug 18:38

We all knew it was going to happen, surprised it took so long. I wonder if anyone managed to get the important videos before they were dealt with.


The files are out...

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sat 10 Aug 21:02

Told you weeks ago this would happen. A lot of powerful people will be very relieved
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Sat 10 Aug 21:27

All very fishy. He was supposedly on 24/7 suicide watch after a previous attempt.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Sat 10 Aug 23:04

Nice little lethal injection to keep him silent. Nothing at all surprising here. The elite are disgusting
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 11 Aug 07:57

What exactly does the BBC have to do with what is going down in the US?

Incidentally it was the BBC who gave Mark Watts (and Conrad) or Exaro the opportunity on air to use their star whistlerblower to expose the establishment paedophile ring in Westminster and bring down the government(Watt’s prediction) of the day.

It’s on the BBC website and You Tube I think.

What transpired was somewhat different - “Panorama” rubbished “Nick’s” fairytale about his school pal being murdered etc. he turned out to be a paedophile (how ironical), Exaro closed down, and Watts was thoroughly discredited.

Of course, why let the facts contradict the guff and drivel some peddle around here ?
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: d3monstrate  
Date:   Sun 11 Aug 08:41

"A lot of powerful people will be very relieved"

They wont be relieved, they knew this would be happening anyway. Wont even have registered with them once the call was made
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sun 11 Aug 08:41

Quote:

veteraneastender, Sun 11 Aug 07:57

What exactly does the BBC have to do with what is going down in the US?

Incidentally it was the BBC who gave Mark Watts (and Conrad) or Exaro the opportunity on air to use their star whistlerblower to expose the establishment paedophile ring in Westminster and bring down the government(Watt’s prediction) of the day.

It’s on the BBC website and You Tube I think.

What transpired was somewhat different - “Panorama” rubbished “Nick’s” fairytale about his school pal being murdered etc. he turned out to be a paedophile (how ironical), Exaro closed down, and Watts was thoroughly discredited.

Of course, why let the facts contradict the guff and drivel some peddle around here ?


Simple question, do you think Epstein actually committed suicide and that there were no powerful men enjoying the company of children via him?

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 11 Aug 10:08

At first glance it certainly seems suspicious. However if you look at it objectively it isn't really. The suicide rates in prison is incredibly high. This guy was facing spending the rest of his natural life in a U.S penitentiary. Looking over his shoulder every minute waiting for the next beating or worse to come his way. After a lifetime of luxury I could imagine his new surroundings would have been quite a shock to the system.
I mean why would these shadowy powerful elites wait until now to do it. Why wait until it becomes international headline news and prompts American senators and mayor's to demand further investigations. Why not do it years ago when the investigations first began? Why not silence the witness who made the allegations?
By the way I'm not defending Epstein. He admitted his guilt and was a wretched individual I'm just not ready to follow the established thinking that his suicide was a murder.
Oh and Rasta please don't refer to me as one of the 'enablers' again.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 11 Aug 10:34

I don't think it was murder by action but the authorities had a responsibility and a duty of care to ensure that this exact thing didn't happen.

It just takes an "accidentally" missed welfare check and next time they're checking a corpse.

Epstein was in the special housing unit so his environment and who/what he had access to would have been even more micromanaged than in general population. He had a recent suicide attempt so he should have been on 24/7 suicide watch, so something is fishy here. This isn't an average Joe, this is the most high profile prisoner in the world right now. Who has already made a suicide attempt.

Well fishy.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sun 11 Aug 10:40

I have no idea who killed him, if indeed it was not natural causes, and have even less interest.

Maybe it was BBC sanctioned operation ?
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sun 11 Aug 10:42

Some of you would literally defend anything.
Staggering.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Sun 11 Aug 12:04

Quote:

Rastapari, Sun 11 Aug 10:42

Some of you would literally defend anything.
Staggering.


Were you there? No. So you do not know precisely what happened do you? Your assuming which is not a very strong position.

Just so you know, I think it's suspicious and he was possibly assisted but I couldn't prove it so I will not be prepared to shout about it
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Jbob  
Date:   Sun 11 Aug 13:47

Your enabler throwaway line does you no favours Rasta.

Bobs of the world unite
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sun 11 Aug 18:40

Rasta is right on this one. No way this was suicide or natural causes. The bookies wouldnt take odds on this it was so obviously going to happen. The damage he could cause outweighed the fact it was blatantly obvious. The only thing we don't know is who made the move. He was uber high profile and even if they didnt have him on 24/7 suicide watch he should have been on 24/7 protection. There should have been at least 2 guards on him 24/7.
Absolutely no doubt about this one unless your head is in the sand.
They wouldnt kill him earlier because he had protection measures in place. Stuff that could be found. He was blackmailing them all. He was starting to talk though so caution was thrown to the wind.
The evidence may still surface...just depends who gets it first and how good they are at avoiding the eyes of tje establishment before leaking them. Mwuhuhuhuhuhu!

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Jbob  
Date:   Sun 11 Aug 18:57

If you fire a hundred arrows then some will hit the target.

Bobs of the world unite
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 11 Aug 18:59

''Rasta is right on this one.''

He's not right to refer to those who may disagree with him as 'enablers'.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sun 11 Aug 19:27

No he needs to calm doon a bit.

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Sun 11 Aug 19:56

Quote:

wee eck, Sun 11 Aug 18:59

''Rasta is right on this one.''

He's not right to refer to those who may disagree with him as 'enablers'.


And he is not able to categorically prove how he died and neither can Parrot. Everyone is entitled to believe what they wish but unless you were there you cannot know how he died. It's all speculation from people 3,000 plus miles from the incident.

It's all opinion not fact

Post Edited (Sun 11 Aug 19:56)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sun 11 Aug 21:24

Another beast away!
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Mon 12 Aug 08:02

Quote:

EEP, Sun 11 Aug 21:24

Another beast away!


Before his beast friends are collared.
No wonder the Queen and her paedo son Andy are all smiles today.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Mon 12 Aug 08:21

Quote:

Rastapari, Mon 12 Aug 08:02

Quote:

EEP, Sun 11 Aug 21:24

Another beast away!


Before his beast friends are collared.
No wonder the Queen and her paedo son Andy are all smiles today.


More assumptions again.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Mon 12 Aug 12:08

Quote:

moviescot, Mon 12 Aug 08:21

Quote:

Rastapari, Mon 12 Aug 08:02

Quote:

EEP, Sun 11 Aug 21:24

Another beast away!


Before his beast friends are collared.
No wonder the Queen and her paedo son Andy are all smiles today.


More assumptions again.


I've researched enough to be comfortable in my views.
In other news I can't believe the guard on Epstein's suicide watch died next week in a car crash...

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 12 Aug 12:33

Funny because I can't believe it either.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Mon 12 Aug 13:00

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Mon 12 Aug 12:33

Funny because I can't believe it either.


Not to worry, the official story that Epstein killed himself and was the only high profile child trafficker involved will no doubt comfort you ;)

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Mon 12 Aug 13:13

Moviescot is quite right. It is speculation regardless of the extremely high likelyhood.
Lets put it this way though....knowing what we do know, would you let Andrew babysit your 15 year old daughter for a weekend?

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Mon 12 Aug 13:36

Quote:

PARrot, Mon 12 Aug 13:13

Moviescot is quite right. It is speculation regardless of the extremely high likelyhood.
Lets put it this way though....knowing what we do know, would you let Andrew babysit your 15 year old daughter for a weekend?


I wouldn't let anyone I don't know babysit my daughter.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Mon 12 Aug 13:37

Quote:

Rastapari, Mon 12 Aug 12:08

Quote:

moviescot, Mon 12 Aug 08:21

Quote:

Rastapari, Mon 12 Aug 08:02

Quote:

EEP, Sun 11 Aug 21:24

Another beast away!


Before his beast friends are collared.
No wonder the Queen and her paedo son Andy are all smiles today.


More assumptions again.


I've researched enough to be comfortable in my views.
In other news I can't believe the guard on Epstein's suicide watch died next week in a car crash...


Your views which you are entitled to. However, still assumptions.
It was reported Epstein was not on suicide watch so who is this guard who died in a car accident?
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Mon 12 Aug 14:02

Quote:

moviescot, Mon 12 Aug 13:37

Quote:

Rastapari, Mon 12 Aug 12:08

Quote:

moviescot, Mon 12 Aug 08:21

Quote:

Rastapari, Mon 12 Aug 08:02

Quote:

EEP, Sun 11 Aug 21:24

Another beast away!


Before his beast friends are collared.
No wonder the Queen and her paedo son Andy are all smiles today.


More assumptions again.


I've researched enough to be comfortable in my views.
In other news I can't believe the guard on Epstein's suicide watch died next week in a car crash...


Your views which you are entitled to. However, still assumptions.
It was reported Epstein was not on suicide watch so who is this guard who died in a car accident?


Try reading it again ffs 😂

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Mon 12 Aug 14:29

Quote:

Rastapari, Mon 12 Aug 14:02

Quote:

moviescot, Mon 12 Aug 13:37

Quote:

Rastapari, Mon 12 Aug 12:08

Quote:

moviescot, Mon 12 Aug 08:21

Quote:

Rastapari, Mon 12 Aug 08:02

Quote:

EEP, Sun 11 Aug 21:24

Another beast away!


Before his beast friends are collared.
No wonder the Queen and her paedo son Andy are all smiles today.


More assumptions again.


I've researched enough to be comfortable in my views.
In other news I can't believe the guard on Epstein's suicide watch died next week in a car crash...


Your views which you are entitled to. However, still assumptions.
It was reported Epstein was not on suicide watch so who is this guard who died in a car accident?


Try reading it again ffs 😂


That's what I get for skim reading. ☹️🤣
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: average white par  
Date:   Mon 12 Aug 15:29

^^^ A splendid little interchange there, and truly one of those little cameos which lighten the darkness of this thread...

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Mon 12 Aug 17:24

Quote:

moviescot, Mon 12 Aug 13:36

Quote:

PARrot, Mon 12 Aug 13:13

Moviescot is quite right. It is speculation regardless of the extremely high likelyhood.
Lets put it this way though....knowing what we do know, would you let Andrew babysit your 15 year old daughter for a weekend?


I wouldn't let anyone I don't know babysit my daughter.


Nobody would but you answered that like a politician. You get the point and you could give a reply that contributes to the thread more constructively.

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Mon 12 Aug 17:33

Quote:

PARrot, Mon 12 Aug 17:24

Quote:

moviescot, Mon 12 Aug 13:36

Quote:

PARrot, Mon 12 Aug 13:13

Moviescot is quite right. It is speculation regardless of the extremely high likelyhood.
Lets put it this way though....knowing what we do know, would you let Andrew babysit your 15 year old daughter for a weekend?


I wouldn't let anyone I don't know babysit my daughter.


Nobody would but you answered that like a politician. You get the point and you could give a reply that contributes to the thread more constructively.


No. I answered that like a father. I don't know Andrew so no he wouldn't get to babysit. Not sure when a 15 year old would need a babysitter mind.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Mon 12 Aug 17:35

Quote:

moviescot, Mon 12 Aug 17:33

Quote:

PARrot, Mon 12 Aug 17:24

Quote:

moviescot, Mon 12 Aug 13:36

Quote:

PARrot, Mon 12 Aug 13:13

Moviescot is quite right. It is speculation regardless of the extremely high likelyhood.
Lets put it this way though....knowing what we do know, would you let Andrew babysit your 15 year old daughter for a weekend?


I wouldn't let anyone I don't know babysit my daughter.


Nobody would but you answered that like a politician. You get the point and you could give a reply that contributes to the thread more constructively.


No. I answered that like a father. I don't know Andrew so no he wouldn't get to babysit. Not sure when a 15 year old would need a babysitter mind.


Ok we'll move on. Enough said.

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Mon 12 Aug 19:30

“Not sure when a 15 year old would need a babysitter mind.”

Would probably only need one if Prince Andrew were skulking about
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Mon 12 Aug 23:42

I shoulda said chaparone but that wouldnt have prevented the evasive answer either.

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Tue 13 Aug 08:30

Quote:

PARrot, Mon 12 Aug 23:42

I shoulda said chaparone but that wouldnt have prevented the evasive answer either.


What evasive answer?
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 13 Aug 10:43

Some would defend everything ?

Talk about being deluded by ignorance - those who readily believe anything and everything if it suits their prejudiced agenda !!!

The truth will eventually come out about Eipstein, just as it did about Carl Beech etc.

Enjoying cafe rest in Rouen - nice city.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Tue 13 Aug 15:22

Errrrrr.... I think the Epstein and Beech cases are somewhat different.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Tue 13 Aug 23:19

That's the basis of the problem that the real victims have: where folk are naturally inclined to compare the obvious liars with people who are essentially unstable because they are the victims of systematic abuse and gaslighting over years or decades.

If we catch it early enough we call it grooming, but if it gets past that, to "groomed" then it gets more difficult to deal with.

Especially if it occurs where children have little "loving supervision", such as when they are in state care, foster care or when their parents completely lack the skills to properly care for them, let alone actually cherish and nurture them.

Children in that situation often have to "hustle" to literally survive (even in this country) and will be less socially or ethically pressured to stick to the law when they look to bring money into the "household" (which could be an actual household or a more ad-hoc group living in different houses).

It's not a new thing that desperation (eg extreme poverty) and lack of investment will make people less inclined to follow the law or authority. Often the opposite due to past bad experience - they shun and lash out against authority.

So now we have a perfect storm for abuse: vulnerable, desperate children for whom "Stranger Danger" is more of a challenge than a warning, combined with authorities who are institutionally geared to see them as a problem rather than a victim.

We, as a society, are responsible for insisting on creating the environment where this continues decades after we became starkly aware of it.



The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.

Post Edited (Tue 13 Aug 23:21)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Fri 16 Aug 18:27

Mandelson and Blair in Epstein's little black book, feel numerous times in his plane.
Epstein had 12, yep 12 phone numbers for Mandelson...fair to say he was on call.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Fri 16 Aug 23:38

Are we going off the presumption that everyone that Epstein was in contact with was a nonce? Not a loaded question to you Rasta but wheres the cut off between "Aye he probably just k knows him" and "Turbo nonce"?

Fortunately I've never known someone to commit these crimes (hopefully) however a mate of mines, best man at his wedding was later done for being a paedophile, my mate was naturally disgusted, but he himself isn't one.

Where's the line?
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sat 17 Aug 07:26

Quote:

Grant, Fri 16 Aug 23:38

Are we going off the presumption that everyone that Epstein was in contact with was a nonce? Not a loaded question to you Rasta but wheres the cut off between "Aye he probably just k knows him" and "Turbo nonce"?

Fortunately I've never known someone to commit these crimes (hopefully) however a mate of mines, best man at his wedding was later done for being a paedophile, my mate was naturally disgusted, but he himself isn't one.

Where's the line?


You have to look into what Epstein is and does, he's a leverage collecter, Mandelson was pretty keen to stay in touch, my point is not necessarily that he is a nonce, but would have been aware of Epstein's tastes and trades.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sat 17 Aug 07:41

Quote:

Rastapari, Fri 16 Aug 18:27

Mandelson and Blair in Epstein's little black book, feel numerous times in his plane.
Epstein had 12, yep 12 phone numbers for Mandelson...fair to say he was on call.


I'm fairly certain that Epstein provided young girls. Since Mandelson is gay I'm not so sure about your assumptions.
Are we doing guilt by association now?
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Jbob  
Date:   Sat 17 Aug 09:01

Was 10 phone numbers re Mandelson but your point is taken.

Bobs of the world unite
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 17 Aug 09:18

Numerous Brits listed apparently, including Mick Jagger, Simon Le Bon, the late Sir David Frost, Richard Branson, Naomi Campbell, Tamara Beckwith, Jonathan Dimbleby and Loyd Grossman.

Are they all in the alleged paedophile circus ?
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 17 Aug 10:16

No Takeaways or Taxis?😎
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sat 17 Aug 15:40

If I was in the personal phone book of one of the most active and high profile paedophiles this century then I would expect to have to explain that to police.

They wouldn't be doing their job otherwise.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sat 17 Aug 16:12

Quote:

Wotsit, Sat 17 Aug 15:40

If I was in the personal phone book of one of the most active and high profile paedophiles this century then I would expect to have to explain that to police.

They wouldn't be doing their job otherwise.


This.
Epstein supplied children of bith sexes.
I reckon his missus could be next dead.
Or promoted.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sat 17 Aug 20:18

Quote:

Rastapari, Sat 17 Aug 16:12

Quote:

Wotsit, Sat 17 Aug 15:40

If I was in the personal phone book of one of the most active and high profile paedophiles this century then I would expect to have to explain that to police.

They wouldn't be doing their job otherwise.


This.
Epstein supplied children of bith sexes.
I reckon his missus could be next dead.
Or promoted.

Definitely, she will be found having 'killed herself' very shortly
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Sat 17 Aug 21:33

Epstein supplied both sexes!!

So far nothing in the released court papers support this view. But of course Rasta will have his "secret" sources.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sat 17 Aug 21:54

Still the same people standing up for their betters. I wonder if they are in The Order
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sun 18 Aug 07:42

Quote:

moviescot, Sat 17 Aug 21:33

Epstein supplied both sexes!!

So far nothing in the released court papers support this view. But of course Rasta will have his "secret" sources.


Bless, your dislike for me eve extends to defending a paedophile eh, how sad for you.
Do you think Epstein was getting Spacey little girls?
Edit, given your admitted and we'll illustrated "skim reading" I'll just assume this is another subject you've skimmed over.
Epstein was a collector of leverage, for whom is hazy right enough but if you think it was just the straight guys he catered for try reading the list instead of skimming through it.

I Hope You're Ok Today....

Post Edited (Sun 18 Aug 07:59)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 18 Aug 09:26

You mean throughly read the list, that by your own admission, is hazy?

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Sun 18 Aug 10:07

Quote:

Rastapari, Sun 18 Aug 07:42

Quote:

moviescot, Sat 17 Aug 21:33

Epstein supplied both sexes!!

So far nothing in the released court papers support this view. But of course Rasta will have his "secret" sources.


Bless, your dislike for me eve extends to defending a paedophile eh, how sad for you.
Do you think Epstein was getting Spacey little girls?
Edit, given your admitted and we'll illustrated "skim reading" I'll just assume this is another subject you've skimmed over.
Epstein was a collector of leverage, for whom is hazy right enough but if you think it was just the straight guys he catered for try reading the list instead of skimming through it.


Get a life Rasta. I have not defended anything to do with Epstein. So gives us the list of hazy people then.

You always seem to be better informed than everyone else on these murky goings on. I wonder why that is?

I have no dislike for you. I don't know you and have no opinion on you personally.

Bless that you think I care about you so much though.

Post Edited (Sun 18 Aug 10:08)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Sun 18 Aug 11:05

Going too far saying Moviescott defended Epstein Rasta. He never did. He seems more concerned with simply sticking to proven facts.
I agree with you that his death was organised but who knows who by. So many candidates. I believe it goes to the top though and Barr's visit confirms that for me.
Fact is though Moviescott is right too. Despite my convictions I don't have enough evidence to conclude guilty if I was in a jury and we need to hold these standards high to protect everyone.

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 18 Aug 15:48

Agreed Parrot, we don’t have anywhere near enough evidence to convict anyone. But there seems to be more than enough for a very robust investigation.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: petrie_pants  
Date:   Mon 19 Aug 11:36

If you go over the Youtube and search for a guy called Shaun Attwood he's done some really good videos on Epstein.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Mon 19 Aug 19:31

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 18 Aug 09:26

You mean throughly read the list, that by your own admission, is hazy?


Try reading, like Moviescot you skim.
The list is not hazy at all, flight/guest lists etc.
Whom Epstein gathers leverage for is a bit of a web, I suspect you knew that though as you get awfully defensive when your beloved leaders get the spotlight.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Mon 19 Aug 21:10

Quote:

Rastapari, Mon 19 Aug 19:31

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 18 Aug 09:26

You mean throughly read the list, that by your own admission, is hazy?


Try reading, like Moviescot you skim.
The list is not hazy at all, flight/guest lists etc.
Whom Epstein gathers leverage for is a bit of a web, I suspect you knew that though as you get awfully defensive when your beloved leaders get the spotlight.


Interesting Rasta. So just how many paedophiles do you actually know? How do you know so much about how they operate?

Do you think everyone who came into contact with Epstein knew what he was?

Just interested.

Post Edited (Mon 19 Aug 21:12)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Mon 19 Aug 22:38

Hi moviescot, did you know that asking about personal experiences in this regard can be quite damaging to folks' mental health?

Or that it is hugely lacking in tact to demand that someone recounts their personal experiences with paedophiles on a public forum?

Just interested.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 19 Aug 23:28

I don't get awfully defensive at all Rasta. I just have a sceptical nature and it usually takes hard evidence to sway me one way or another.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 19 Aug 23:47

Wotsit, while Moviescot certainly should have reconsidered his words before posting I'm sure you would concede that it can also be damaging to someone's mental health, depending on their history, to label them, in the context of this subject matter, an 'enabler'.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Tue 20 Aug 07:05

Quote:

moviescot, Mon 19 Aug 21:10

Quote:

Rastapari, Mon 19 Aug 19:31

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 18 Aug 09:26

You mean throughly read the list, that by your own admission, is hazy?


Try reading, like Moviescot you skim.
The list is not hazy at all, flight/guest lists etc.
Whom Epstein gathers leverage for is a bit of a web, I suspect you knew that though as you get awfully defensive when your beloved leaders get the spotlight.


Interesting Rasta. So just how many paedophiles do you actually know? How do you know so much about how they operate?

Do you think everyone who came into contact with Epstein knew what he was?

Just interested.


Study the subject, quite simple.
Maybe if you and TOWK read things instead of skimming eh.
Edit, whilst concern for mental health is always welcome expend no energy on me.
I'm good, this pair teeth knashing doesn't bother me.

I Hope You're Ok Today....

Post Edited (Tue 20 Aug 07:27)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Tue 20 Aug 08:16

Thank you for your response Rasta. No intention on my part to cause any offence.

So you have no direct experience. I thought I had led a pretty closeted life but I can recount my experience of having known 3 paedophiles. Two of whom I would have called friends and another who was my manager at my work.

Maybe I will give some details when I can put them into some order.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Tue 20 Aug 09:05

I'm good as well Rasta so don't worry about it but I'd rather you didn't bother with the put downs and insults.

Turn on, Tune in, Drop out.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 20 Aug 10:10

Rasta has a track record of pathetic wiseguy efforts at badmouthing others who question some of his claims, he's presumably predisposed to such personalt insults.

The "enabler" nonsense is particulary derisory and laughable.

I wouldn't have known Jeffrey Eipstein if he'd have sat beside me in the Norrie.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 20 Aug 10:16

I don't think it is a trait of his general character. More a reflection on how strongly he feels about a particular subject

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Tue 20 Aug 10:34

Whatever your views on this topic can we keep it "on topic" and refrain from personal digs at each other.
You may not agree with someones point of view but that's the way life is.



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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 20 Aug 11:55

Can't argue that one.

Back on course, I didn't realise that a US court had cleared Prince Andrew.

Presumably that was the hearing in Florida under state jurisdiction ?

Could be "interesting" now that Federal authorities are investigating.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Tue 20 Aug 12:30

Quote:

veteraneastender, Tue 20 Aug 11:55

Can't argue that one.

Back on course, I didn't realise that a US court had cleared Prince Andrew.

Presumably that was the hearing in Florida under state jurisdiction ?

Could be "interesting" now that Federal authorities are investigating.


Oh well if he's been cleared by a US court then 😂
Moviescot, I went to Dollar Academy which was riddled with paedophiles, knew two people who killed themselves because of it, utterly rife.
The guy two doors along from my folks was a paedophile, must I go on?

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 20 Aug 14:43

I had three relatives at Dollar Academy, they never mentioned any of this.

Who were the perpetrators ?

Just curious.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey  
Date:   Tue 20 Aug 14:55

Mountbatten documentary on last night, did they mention his "fondness" for young vulnerable males?

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Tue 20 Aug 14:57

Please don't post names or initials.
They will be removed.



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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Tue 20 Aug 14:58

Main one Jonathon Quick, convicted and jailed, only when nearly dead though, see how that works?
His pal Porteous, although his tastes were violence toward young boys.
Various older pupils involved, two suicides I know of, witnessed Quick on many occasion being inappropriate, he would touch boys in front of the class whilst spanking them over his knee.
His previous school erased him from their records I believe.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Tue 20 Aug 15:34

Quote:

Rastapari, Tue 20 Aug 12:30

Quote:

veteraneastender, Tue 20 Aug 11:55

Can't argue that one.

Back on course, I didn't realise that a US court had cleared Prince Andrew.

Presumably that was the hearing in Florida under state jurisdiction ?

Could be "interesting" now that Federal authorities are investigating.


Oh well if he's been cleared by a US court then 😂
Moviescot, I went to Dollar Academy which was riddled with paedophiles, knew two people who killed themselves because of it, utterly rife.
The guy two doors along from my folks was a paedophile, must I go on?


See what I mean. A closeted existence.

I had heard about Dollar Academy though. A couple of people who were at my primary school went there. One only lasted a year. Never really found out why but there were rumours.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 20 Aug 15:36

The DY suicide is a tragic case.

It appears the perpetrator only eluded justice earlier because his crimes didn’t come to light until he was well into later life - after 2002.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Tue 20 Aug 17:12

Ref: Rastapari
Date: Tue 20 Aug 14:58

<<<Main one Jonathon Quick, convicted and jailed, only when nearly dead though, see how that works?>>>

Well done Rasta 😂

Methinks he was a proper jailbird.



Post Edited (Tue 20 Aug 20:41)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Wed 21 Aug 11:35

It appears the perpetrator only eluded justice earlier because his crimes didn’t come to light until he was well into later life - after 2002.

Forgive my rudeness but, to me, that seems like a really facile thing to say.

For instance, what do you mean by "come to light"? To whom did it come to light? Presumably you aren't suggesting that nobody with power to act knew? What were the systemic and/or social failures that prevented it "coming to light" sooner? For example, was it the case that the behaviour had become normalised thorough systematic grooming with the kids essentially being brainwashed into thinking that the behaviour was normal and innocent.

Basically, this isn't simple and it extends beyond the individuals who actually commit the acts. Rasta used the word "enabler" earlier and whilst I don't necessarily agree with his choices of target, it's important to remember that there are enablers out there who, for whatever reason*, will "turn a blind eye" or knowingly keep avenues of abuse open.

*politics, blackmail, loyalty, fear, PR etc
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Wed 21 Aug 14:32

Quick's crimes were hidden by Dollar....an example...I was beaten by one of his colleagues whilst in p5 for trying to bring attention to his liking for touching boys.
Hence his crimes coming out later.
Are we seeing how this works yet?

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 21 Aug 18:09

"Forgive my rudeness but, to me, that seems like a really facile thing to say."

Going by contemporary media reports, the authotities only became aware after 2002 when the victim tragically took his life.

The abuse apparently took place several years earlier.

Hence the delay in the case coming before the Sheriff.

Why it didn't come to public attention sooner (as Rasta alludes to) is a matter for Dollar Academy to answer in the first instance.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Wed 21 Aug 18:43

Quote:

veteraneastender, Wed 21 Aug 18:09

"Forgive my rudeness but, to me, that seems like a really facile thing to say."

Going by contemporary media reports, the authotities only became aware after 2002 when the victim tragically took his life.

The abuse apparently took place several years earlier.

Hence the delay in the case coming before the Sheriff.

Why it didn't come to public attention sooner (as Rasta alludes to) is a matter for Dollar Academy to answer in the first instance.


Indeed it is, good luck getting an answer, they had to be aware if what was going on as there was even an occasion another teacher lost the place with Quick about "touching" boys and some of the physical/violent abuse doled out on his behalf was truly frightening at that age.
Also, you thinkpupils didn't tell their parents? There were some who did, only for their parents to be told their child was a lying troublemaker. Who do you think the parents believed? A child getting it tight from numerous teachers at a prestigious school or the child?
I can tell you the answer.
I was lucky in that I got the violence, frankly how some other boys I knew have survived to adulthood is beyond me. I would be very surprised if they did so without issues.
So that's what happens to kids abused at a private school, can you imagine children/victim's trying to take billionaires or powerful establishment figures?

I apologise for the "enablers" comment I made, I guess my experience has made me somewhat absolutist on the subject, it was however an unfair thing for me to spit out.

I know how effed up some of the witnesses at Quick's trial were at having to revisit that time.
You would think the truth is all that matters but it isn't, try and take on a remotely powerful paedophile when money and image are involved and you see the nature of the beast.
I can only imagine a child/victim trying to take on an Epstein or Windsor/Sax Gotha and what they would face.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Wed 21 Aug 19:42


Why it didn't come to public attention sooner (as Rasta alludes to) is a matter for Dollar Academy to answer in the first instance.


I disagree.

I think that it is a matter for us all, as a society, to demand answers and to pay more attention so that it gets picked up sooner in future.

Or that it is impossible for people in positions of authority to ignore warning signs or disclosures.

It is also beholden on us, as a society, to ensure that those who have close relationships with vulnerable children are properly monitored.

I am a PVG (Protection of Vulnerable Groups) signatory at my work, processing about 60-odd PVGs a year and I'm honestly not overly confident in the system as it stands (it's not necessarily unfit for purpose, but it has some cracks in it's identity checking systems that could be exploited by a determined person), suggesting that we haven't learned from experience.

So we definitely have work to do and it is unreasonable to point the finger at each institution rt individual as if they exist in a vacuum; we have systems and checks and if they fail then that's on us.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 21 Aug 19:48

"Also, you think pupils didn't tell their parents?"

33 years secondary teacher, including guidance post, so yes to that.

Outside of school, long time in the past, I was obliged (under duty of care) to report an allegation of child abuse up the chain of responsibility. Fortunately, from my perspective, higher authority took over.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 21 Aug 19:54

The Disclosure Scotland process is far from perfect, however it is a quantam leap forward from what existed (or rather didn't exist) in the past.

My son and heir was in one of Thomas Hamilton's youth groups, which of course we would never have allowed had we known.

Hindsight of course is perfect 20-20 vision.



Post Edited (Wed 21 Aug 19:55)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Wed 21 Aug 22:09

The response to the Hamilton case at the time was great and the Disclosure system that came out of it was great for the time - well ahead of the curve compared with other systems - but there have been 1 or 2% of the applications I've made for people have allowed subtle mistakes to get through (which I only picked up after the certificate was issued) - mostly in cases where the applicant has either been confused by a question or when the DS handwriting recognition system makes a transcription error and the misspelled surname or subtly off DoB or address isn't spotted and a certificate is issued.

DS are also supposed to record any claims or suspicions made against people, even if they are unproven, in order to spot patterns across multiple organisations, but all too often an employer will simply encourage a staff member out the door or hope they go though natural wastage when they have suspicions but no evidence. However, it's obviously in DS's interests to know when folk have a number of these incidents (maybe a subtle, less sexual touching or inappropriate but not overly sexual comments for example) across multiple jobs because perhaps some of those people too are not the best folk to be working with kids or vulnerable adults; we don't need beyond reasonable doubt here - balance of probability the way to go in these cases and it's what DS use. They just need ALL incidents, however minor on the surface, reported in order to best do that.

Also, iirc more than a few people reported Hamilton's predilections (taking pictures of half naked boys) to police, but no action was taken - again, there has been a missed lesson, to catch criminals you have to follow up reports - even if it is a bit awkward for somebody who might be innocent, or might not. If they are innocent then there is some problems for an unlucky person and that's terrible, but if they aren't then we have dead or permanently damaged children.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Thu 22 Aug 02:13

"My son and heir was in one of Thomas Hamilton's youth groups"

That's a horribly close brush, did you ever meet and him did he ever seem like the person who he'd turn out to be?
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Digs  
Date:   Thu 22 Aug 10:37

My mate was also in one of his groups at about 5 years old. He made them partake in games, like football, or crab football etc in their underwear.

My mate told his mum and dad he didn't want to go back because he made him feel really uncomfortable, although being 5, he couldn't really articulate it.

Thomas Hamilton then came round his house to try and persuade him to come back, but on seeing how my mate reacted to him in their own home, they informed him he wouldn't be back.

He was lucky in that he didn't actually do anything to him but he firmly believes that if his mum and dad hadn't picked up on his reaction there is more than a strong chance he would have done. As such they couldn't really report him or anything as he hadn't actually done anything.

Predators are very clever manipulators who manipulate not only their victims but people who their victim might turn to. I think it's too simplistic to say 'people should've listened' but I do take the point that sometimes, a lot of the time, those who may be in the spotlight if allegations are made against someone they have entrusted or employed, will sometimes consciously ignore it for self preservation or preservation of any number of a given status quo.


Stair Maistreas na Beatha
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 22 Aug 14:09

"Also, iirc more than a few people reported Hamilton's predilections (taking pictures of half naked boys) to police, but no action was taken - again, there has been a missed lesson, to catch criminals you have to follow up reports - even if it is a bit awkward for somebody who might be innocent, or might not."

Apparently the police were unable to find sufficient evidence to proceed following that incident.

Hamilton was "streetwise" when it came to dealing with the authorities, little or nothing could be pinned on him.

"My mate was also in one of his groups at about 5 years old. He made them partake in games, like football, or crab football etc in their underwear."

It wasn't uncommon in times past for one of the two team in sports sessions to remove their t-shirt etc. and play as "skins" against "tops" - I mind doing it many times in school and we never thought anything sinister of it, simply a convenient way for the teacher to keep the activity moving along.

"That's a horribly close brush, did you ever meet and him did he ever seem like the person who he'd turn out to be?"

Never met him - he had use of Clack Council schools premises in the evening for his clubs so we all assumed all was kosher.

Discovered later that the council were reluctant to let him use their facilities but he was able to challenge them because they were unable to justify the grounds for objections with solid evidence etc.

Son and heir, to my recollection, never voiced any negative vibes during his relatively short time in that club.

Hamilton sent home letters fairly regularly when he wanted written permission for some purpose. These were on headed stationey, with Stirling Association of Boys Clubs at the top - only afterwards did it become clear that he'd made up the group name, and was self appointed as secretary. There was no committee of parents or adult leaders.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Digs  
Date:   Thu 22 Aug 15:18

It wasn't uncommon in times past for one of the two team in sports sessions to remove their t-shirt etc. and play as "skins" against "tops" - I mind doing it many times in school and we never thought anything sinister of it, simply a convenient way for the teacher to keep the activity moving along.

I'm aware of that, I did it at PE. It's wasn't common to make both teams strip down to bare chest and underpants though. That's clearly not normal behaviour, no matter when it happened.


Stair Maistreas na Beatha
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Thu 22 Aug 17:20

Didn't twig it was both teams - that is not on.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie  
Date:   Thu 22 Aug 17:22

He was ultra strict even beyond anything i had encountered at school or elsewhere at the time, this would have been 1993 so i'd have been about Primary 5 or there abouts at the time.

Ran it like more of a boot camp than a boys club, there was always a huge emphasis on PT and the warmups etc were harder than anything i'd experienced before.

He also detested anyone who was overweight and would draw attention to them in front of the rest of the group on a weekly basis. Not to trivialise it but if you've ever seen Full Metal Jacket think back to the scenes with Hartmann and Private Pyle it was that kind of scenario, even with ten year old laddies.

Club itself was an hour a week, pretty much a 50/50 split of gymnastics style warmups with pummell horse, vault that sort of with the second half being small sided games of football. As i said it was all ultra strict; big emphasis on all the boys being responsible for helping setup then dismantle the equipment and there was zero chat or larking about allowed.

Very much a control freak and as i said ran it like a boot camp. Having said that my primary school head teacher at the time was a PE teacher in his earlier days and i was in the school basketball team which he took and it was a similar 'old school' approach there, ableit he was a 6ft 4" adonis who commanded respect where as Hamilton was a bit of a weasel in comparison.

Never had to play stripped down to underwear in my experience although there were never any bibs so it always skins v tops.

The only genuinely odd thing looking back was that during games he would film every single session week in week out. Wasn't your average Joe's camcorder either, was one of th huge things you'd expecta TV camerman to be using all setup on a huge tripod tucked away into the wee fire escape dookit at the half way line. He claimed he had contacts and knew scouts at all the big teams and they would be passed tapes of the best players. I suppose at that age you were excited by that stuff and never even thought to question it, looking back now though......

Nothing untoward ever happened to me or any of the boys in the class. I think the club just ran it's course after less than a year, folk got fed up with him and bored of the same format week in week out and it ended up folding as numberd dwindled.

I may be wrong but i think that was the general pattern of his 'clubs' over the years. I don't think he was ever ran out of town or shut down, they just started off strong then people couldn't be bothered with his disciplinarian approach and eventually chucked it - possibly had a few parents challenging him over his methods and thus stopping their lads from reattending . He would then move onto the next town/village and repeat cycle etc.....he was in Alloa and Stenny by then so i guess Stirling, Bridge of Allan, Dunblane and surrounding areas had all been done and dusted by this point.

Obviously now adays between the internet and social media he would have been flagged up and black balled years ago and would never have been able to do that in terms of moving onto the next town or village.

---------------------------------------------------------------


"People always talk about Ronaldinho and magic, but I didn't see him today. I saw Henrik Larsson; that's where the magic was."


Post Edited (Thu 22 Aug 17:32)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Grant  
Date:   Fri 23 Aug 21:53

Some incredibly insightful posts there gents, cheers for writing them out, was unaware until a bit of googling about his past with boys clubs, for some reason I thought he was the janitor and he'd went mental, despite watching the Dunblane documentary on TV a few years back which was also outstanding.
.net at it's finest.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Tue 27 Aug 22:10

Randy Andy all over the news, strong statement from an alleged victim.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Thu 29 Aug 20:58

TH was also good friends for whatever reason (suspicious) with Cheif Constable of Central Police through the club era and who was ultimately responsible for TH having the licence for his guns, as it had been turned been down and he overruled. This was due to rumours that had got back to authorities.

Dunblane files are in 100 year vault for a lot of reasons!
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Thu 29 Aug 21:44

Quote:

renegade master, Thu 29 Aug 20:58

TH was also good friends for whatever reason (suspicious) with Cheif Constable of Central Police through the club era and who was ultimately responsible for TH having the licence for his guns, as it had been turned been down and he overruled. This was due to rumours that had got back to authorities.

Dunblane files are in 100 year vault for a lot of reasons!


What documents are in a 100 year vault?
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Thu 29 Aug 22:05

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-46721297
http://dunblane.site/burtonart.htm
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Fri 30 Aug 07:35

Wonder how long the young lady making the strong allegations against Prince Andrew has before she commits suicide or is in an accident?

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Captain Desmond Fancey  
Date:   Fri 30 Aug 07:47

Sadly - and I don't say this often - I think you're right Rasta. Going to be a similar end to poor Dr David Kelly.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Fri 30 Aug 07:51

Quote:

Captain Desmond Fancey, Fri 30 Aug 07:47

Sadly - and I don't say this often - I think you're right Rasta. Going to be a similar end to poor Dr David Kelly.


They haven't minced their words.
The idea that Andrew knew nothing about Epstein and didn't participate is laughable.
That lass sounds pretty sure of herself.

Where did the kids go that flew to Epstein's island but never left?

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 30 Aug 19:24

"TH was also good friends for whatever reason (suspicious) with Cheif Constable of Central Police through the club era and who was ultimately responsible for TH having the licence for his guns, as it had been turned been down and he overruled. This was due to rumours that had got back to authorities."

It was Depute Chief Constable Douglas McMurdo who overruled the recommendation, made in 1991, by Detective Sergeant Paul Hughes that Hamilton's firearms licence renewal be rejected.

I've never heard anybody mention that Hamilton was friends with Chief Constable Willie Wilson - would be interested to know the source of that.

"Dunblane files are in 100 year vault for a lot of reasons!"

The Lord Advocate ordered they be opened and made available at the National Archives nearly 14 years ago.



Post Edited (Fri 30 Aug 19:32)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Fri 30 Aug 20:27

.

"Dunblane files are in 100 year vault for a lot of reasons!"

The Lord Advocate ordered they be opened and made available at the National Archives nearly 14 years ago.

Are you sure about that.


In 2005, the then lord advocate Colin Boyd lifted the restriction on SOME documents closed under the 100-year rule.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 30 Aug 21:49

Only a small number of files were left closed - personal profiles, photos, medical reports and post mortem of the victims.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Fri 30 Aug 22:35

Quote:

veteraneastender, Fri 30 Aug 21:49

Only a small number of files were left closed - personal profiles, photos, medical reports and post mortem of the victims.


Yeah right. Pity none of us will ever know eh
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Fri 30 Aug 23:19

VEE I apologise that it was the Depute Chief Constable who overturned the licence application. An oversight in rank but still a an overusing which would have ultimately have prevented TH having the weapons to carry out the tragic massacre.

It clearly states in the links provided it proved too hard to censor certain documents to allow them to be published. Background reports on TH and connections to others are part of those locked away. The fact that the the Duke of York is also mentioned in the QVS report brings it all a little closer too home!
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 31 Aug 09:26

RM - I doubt if Hamilton's renewal application would have come near the CC, the DCC would have been the highest rank to deal with it.

Apparently he consulted other senior officers, however the concensus of opinion seems to have been that there were no substantive grounds to refuse the application.

Hamilton was litigious and would have taken legal action up to a Sheriff to have it reinstated.

The police had tried to bring charges against him a few times, each dismissed by the Procurator Fiscal in Stirling due to insufficient evidence - the PCs opinion.

If only they had listened to Det. Sgt. Hughes.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sat 31 Aug 09:32

Yeah, so what about the strong statements against Prince Andrew?
The subject if the thread....

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 31 Aug 10:54

Nothing would surprise me about Andrew.

Anecdotal stuff on his Royal Navy days supports his arrogant reputation.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Sat 31 Aug 10:59

VEE

My SGC and FAC are both signed by the Chief Constable and it states can only be signed by the CC.

I know they also check each application/renewal with the advice and recommendations taken from the firearms department reviewed.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 31 Aug 12:00

"My SGC and FAC are both signed by the Chief Constable and it states can only be signed by the CC.

Not sure if that was the procedure used by Central Scotland Constabulary (or any other force) prior to 1996 or not - it appears not as the recommendation not to renew Hamilton's application failed at a rank below CC.

"I know they also check each application/renewal with the advice and recommendations taken from the firearms department reviewed."

That was my experience when successfully applying for my shotgun licence - a few years after Dunblane.

Unless I'm totally mistaken that was also the procedure previously followed.

Hamilton's renewal was not rejected because McMurdo felt it would be successfully challenged before the local Sheriff.

Tragically they did not put that to the test.

Had they done so, it might have been the Sheriff who would have had to bear the responsibility for what transpired, not CSP.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sat 31 Aug 13:47

My late wife had a summer job as a grouse beater at Balmoral when she was a medical student at St Andrews Uni back in the mid-1970s. She interacted with the royal family over two consecutive summers and often said afterwards that Andrew was especially difficult to deal with. He was, even in his teens, a very childish and spoilt individual.



Post Edited (Sat 31 Aug 21:27)
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sat 31 Aug 13:55

My ego would be fragile too if my greatest achievement was being born. I mean, I don't even remember it tbh.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Big T Par  
Date:   Sat 31 Aug 15:35

https://newsthump.com/2015/01/05/duke-of-york-strenuously-denies-he-had-ten-thousand-men/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork

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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Parsbilly  
Date:   Sun 8 Sep 12:11

any bets available on how many months or years it will be before Andrew is seen in public again?
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Sun 8 Sep 12:22

Eh... Yesterdays ceremony marking the 75th anniversary of the liberation of Bruges



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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: d3monstrate  
Date:   Sat 16 Nov 09:13

He definitely looks like hes sweating it in this documentary tonight on the BBC. Snippets on BBC Breakfast
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 16 Nov 13:47

So he didn't know the girl even though photographed with her???👹
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Sat 16 Nov 19:14

He isn't denying it any more. Just "can't remember it".

Dirty, dirty man who is up to his kneck in manure. Just hope it all comes out and he pays for his crimes. Very much doubt it though.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 17 Nov 03:58

Can't see the monarchy lasting beyond Liz. Or that might just be wishful thinking.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sun 17 Nov 07:52

Might remain in England and NI
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Sun 17 Nov 08:24

In the 21st century, our monarchy and all the titled and entitled that go along with it is a total travesty.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sun 17 Nov 08:59

Car crash interview last night, guilty as sin.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 17 Nov 11:41

When he said that he and Maxwell didn't discuss Epstein when the met in the spring?

That's completely and utterly crazy!

And the stuff about how he had some obscure medical condition that meant that he didnt't sweat?

Who came up with this stuff for him? Surely he can afford better liars?

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Sun 17 Nov 12:48

Just watched the interview this morning and well...what a massive own goal that was, makes him look more guilty than ever.

Not even taking into account what he said, his facial impressions when the woman was repeating what he was being accused of, looked so put on and forced as if to stress how absurd they were.

The fact he can’t then remember the woman at all, or dancing in a nightclub or the photo, yet can remember he was at Pizza Express in Woking...

Load of nonsense, guilty he definitely is, how far it went and whether everything said is true still up for debate.

It would have been in Andrews best interests to have just shut up shop.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sun 17 Nov 15:36

At least niw everyone with half a brain knows the Royals have paedos in the midst.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Parsbilly  
Date:   Sun 17 Nov 17:31

Ironic title months ago given he doesn’t, sorry does now but didn’t used to, sweat.

Nonce
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Sun 17 Nov 17:54

Quote:

Parsbilly, Sun 17 Nov 17:31

Ironic title months ago given he doesn’t, sorry does now but didn’t used to, sweat.

Nonce


Unwittingly prophetic.
On the upside more and more people are seeing just how far our establishment will go to protect wealthy paedophiles.

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 17 Nov 18:40

It's not just the paedophiles. Our system allows the wealthy to evade justice for pretty much anything.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: EEP  
Date:   Sun 17 Nov 20:08

Oh he’s as guilty as the Mcanns!
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 18 Nov 09:17

It's a pity we no longer have Tom Watson in the Commons to expose those concerned.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Mon 18 Nov 10:36

Quote:

veteraneastender, Mon 18 Nov 09:17

It's a pity we no longer have Tom Watson in the Commons to expose those concerned.


And here comes the defence...

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 18 Nov 10:46

I couldn't care less if he's guilty or innocent.

However, it would be interesting to know who all the other wealthy (alleged) paedophiles are and who is defending them ?
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Mon 18 Nov 14:35

That information will never come into the light of day and you know that. Epstwin was murdered in prison and I cna guarantee there will be no fallout from that and by next year, all but a few that check up on the case will even remember it happening
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Mon 18 Nov 16:24

Quote:

Andrew283, Mon 18 Nov 14:35

That information will never come into the light of day and you know that. Epstwin was murdered in prison and I cna guarantee there will be no fallout from that and by next year, all but a few that check up on the case will even remember it happening


Same as it ever was...

I Hope You're Ok Today....
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 18 Nov 16:33

"That information will never come into the light of day and you know that."

At least we knew the identified "guilty" parties in the Carl Beech fiasco, now it's back to guessing games again.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Mon 18 Nov 19:27

The notion tha Prince Andrew and his kids can go to a Pizza Express in Woking without leaving any paper trail is frankly laughable.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Mon 18 Nov 20:08

As said elsewhere Royal Protection officers will have a full list of where he was and what times, easy enough to prove his claims if he so wishes.

No witnesses coming forward as yet to say they saw him in there or were in there at the same time. Bit surprising that, I'm sure if you were eating pizza next to a Prince and and Princess you'd remember!
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Mon 18 Nov 23:15

I'm sure it would have been in the local papers.

Unless he was in disguise. Maybe he was wearing his travelling cufflinks rather than his London cufflinks to throw off the press.

The law locks up the man or woman,
Who steals the goose from off the common.
But leaves the greater villain loose,
Who steals the common off the goose.
And geese will still a common lack,
Until they go and steal it back.
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 Re: Prince Andrew sweating it?
Topic Originator: MikeyLeonard  
Date:   Tue 19 Nov 00:06

Just watched this. If he was wired up to a lie detector during that interview, it would be going aff its nut.

He's blatantly lying.
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