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 The haka
Topic Originator: Mario  
Date:   Thu 31 Oct 14:22

Well, rugby is football. Sort of, so this is the forum..

Anyway a letter in the Times last Saturday referred to this fearsome war dance being worth 7 points of a start to NZ, and suggested England should respond with something from their own culture. A Morris dance no less.

This was not required as it turned out, and England have in fact been fined for intruding over the half day line, but preparation is the key. Scotland could recreate a certain scene from Braveheart perhaps. A Murrayfield section for hen do’s would be booked up years in advance.



Post Edited (Thu 31 Oct 14:30)
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 Re: The haka
Topic Originator: General Zod  
Date:   Thu 31 Oct 15:14

England doesn’t have culture.
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 Re: The haka
Topic Originator: Mario  
Date:   Thu 31 Oct 15:50

Away and toss your caber...
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 Re: The haka
Topic Originator: General Zod  
Date:   Thu 31 Oct 16:45

At least it’d be my caber.
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 Re: The haka
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 31 Oct 16:48

Quote:

General Zod, Thu 31 Oct 16:45

At least it’d be my caber.


Post of the year!

I'm a Brexit Negotiator, just like my father before me and his father before him.
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 Re: The haka
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Thu 31 Oct 17:12

I think it's fine that the NZ's get to do the haka, I just don't see why the opposition should have to be on the pitch and receive it like dummies at the time. I think they should do the haka purely as a display to the crowd, not as an intimidation to the opposition. Let them do it, then have the opposition take the field.
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 Re: The haka
Topic Originator: Johan_Cruyff  
Date:   Thu 31 Oct 18:21

If I were the opposition manager/ coach I'd instruct my team to turn their backs

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 Re: The haka
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Thu 31 Oct 18:48

Or do like in 'Braveheart'.





Post Edited (Thu 31 Oct 18:50)
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 Re: The haka
Topic Originator: Jbob  
Date:   Thu 31 Oct 20:51

That's the backa

Bobs of the world unite
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 Re: The haka
Topic Originator: Mario  
Date:   Thu 31 Oct 22:38

Heh heh Zod
But you’ll no be laughing when your caber inevitably ages as mine has... more woodworm than hardwood.
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 Re: The haka
Topic Originator: GG741  
Date:   Fri 1 Nov 01:33

My understanding is that the international Rugby organisation has protocols in place for teams to be present and face any cultural offerings by their opponents.
That is why England were fined; for crossing the centre line which is outside of the protocol.

Facing the haka (or similar offerings from other teams) is a sign of respect by both teams.
The All Blacks use it to issue a challenge to their opponent, and in general terms you need to be deemed worthy to have a challenge issued to you.
Similarly, the All Blacks welcome any response from their opponents, and face that response with respect. My understanding is that a response is traditionally expected, so not being on the field or turning to not face them is disrespectful.

No need to poke the bear.
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 Re: The haka
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Fri 1 Nov 02:14

Ref: GG741
Fri 1 Nov 01:33

<<< My understanding is that a response is traditionally expected, so not being on the field or turning to not face them is disrespectful. >>>

Blimey. Gets a bit wierd if you have to follow protocols so as not to offend those who are out to provoke you. I don't go along with the assumption that it would be disrespectful to stay off the field while NZ do their display.

But if a display in return is the only way, I'd like to see a version of the Zulus when they intimidate the British forces at Rourkes Drift in the film 'Zulu'. I think they run forward, stop and bang on their shields and make some great vocal sounds. Without shields we could bang a fist on a palm and make those sort of vocal sounds.

Final attack, from 'Zulu':

https://youtu.be/1csr0dxalpI?t=114



Post Edited (Fri 01 Nov 02:20)
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 Re: The haka
Topic Originator: GG741  
Date:   Fri 1 Nov 05:42

@onandupthepars
The protocols only apply to Rugby, but a response is not required.
It isn't intended to provoke you; it is a statement 'we are ready, are you?'.

In NZ (away from rugby), if you are 'challenged' with a haka it is traditional to show respect and respond (particularly if you are Maori). That response could be a nod or bow, or could be a full on response haka, but you never turn away.

There was an amazing game recently in NZ, between Tonga and Samoa. A fierce long-held rivalry exists, and there had been some supporter problems leading up to the game.
So both teams did their respective versions of the 'haka' in coordination. The clip is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9muvx0P6G5Q (might need to copy/paste sorry)
The respect is evident at the end when players from both teams applauded the other team.
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 Re: The haka
Topic Originator: BoAPar  
Date:   Fri 1 Nov 08:11

"If I were the opposition manager/ coach I'd instruct my team to turn their backs".

Disrespecting the haka is a really terrible idea - it just fires NZ up.

For example 1996. Australia ignore the haka and warm up instead. A furious NZ beat them 43-6 (Australia's record defeat at the time). Australian Captain John Eales has said that doing it was the biggest regret of his career.

Far better idea is to meet the challenge (like England in the semi or France in the 2011 final).

The 20m rule is ridiculous though.
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 Re: The haka
Topic Originator: Mario  
Date:   Fri 1 Nov 09:03

England could have gone whole hog on the Zulu thing, but somehow I don’t think blacking up and brandishing knobkerries would go down very well...



Post Edited (Fri 01 Nov 09:59)
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 Re: The haka
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Fri 1 Nov 12:06

Quote:

GG741, Fri 1 Nov 05:42

@onandupthepars
The protocols ..
...It isn't intended The clip is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9muvx0P6G5Q (might need to copy/paste sorry)
The respect is evident at the end when players from both teams applauded the other team.


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 Re: The haka
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Fri 1 Nov 12:16

Scotland should respond with its own traditional dance to invoke fear - The Slosh

The fine is for crossing the line which tbh is fair enough, it’s not that hard to stay in your own half until kick off. And let’s put it in perspective, the fine was £2k so barely even a slap on the wrist
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 Re: The haka
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Fri 1 Nov 12:57

Ref: Mario
Date: Fri 1 Nov 09:03

<<< England could have gone whole hog on the Zulu thing, but somehow I don’t think blacking up and brandishing knobkerries would go down very well.. >>>

😅😅


oh I don't know, might stun the opposition into gawps of incredulity! 😅



Post Edited (Fri 01 Nov 13:11)
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 Re: The haka
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Fri 1 Nov 13:10

Ref: GG741
Fri 1 Nov 05:42

& PARrot
Fri 1 Nov 12:06


Brilliant clip GG741 & Parrot. Fantastic crowd response as well, made a tremendous atmosphere.

But they're two teams for whom that's part of their culture. I think it's unfair to demand that other cultures stand and take it.

Mind you, it'd be easy enough to do something as a show of unity and strength. Maybe it is time other nations worked out their own choreographed displays.



Post Edited (Fri 01 Nov 13:39)
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 Re: The haka
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Fri 1 Nov 21:48

Dunno about that Parrot, in seriousness I go to rugby for the match not for a dance off
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 Re: The haka
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sat 2 Nov 01:27

Captain Cook and his crew of the Endeavour faced the Haka when they arrived in western Pacific waters. Can you imagine how intimidating and frightening that would have been when first encountered? And how much restraint they showed to not c*ck their rifles...
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 Re: The haka
Topic Originator: Mario  
Date:   Sat 2 Nov 07:40

Poor chap was killed during a tiff with some locals in Hawaii, his body was then disembowelled, baked, and stripped of flesh as per the local custom. They did hand a few bones back later as a peace gesture.

At least they didn’t eat him. Not sure if any the Pacific rugby playing Islands were cannibals back in the day, but maybe someday we’ll be treated to the sight of a huge pot being wheeled out...
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