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 Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 18:47

Due to ice forming on cables and falling onto carriageway
Detour via Kincardine!

Does anyone know of the buses are still getting over the forth road bridge ?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: shrek par  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 18:54

Did I hear reporting Scotland right that it won't be opening tomorrow?

Admin.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 18:58

Single decker buses are still using the road bridge apparently... Although that could change if the wind gets up.



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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 19:05

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 19:11

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 19:27

Why not use a lane of the northbound carriageway or is that too sensible ?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 19:33

One lane wouldn't cope with the volume of traffic at a guess.
The amount of traffic currently being diverted through Rosyth to Kincardine right now means its difficult just getting around Rosyth.
I'm just back from the monster in laws in Inverkeithing and its pandemonium min



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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Par  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 19:58

I thought this bridge was weather proof apparently not
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: saltonsgonagetu  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 20:08

❗QUEENSFERRY CROSSING

⛔CLOSED Southbound⛔

The Queensferry Crossing is closed S/B due to adverse weather issues

The situation will be monitored overnight and reevaluated however it is currently highly likely to remain closed through morning peak

@TheForthBridges #PlanAhead https://t.co/173sXxafTQ
Taken from Traffic Scotland twitter

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Alf  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 20:26

Quote:

Par, Mon 10 Feb 19:58

I thought this bridge was weather proof apparently not


It can cope with higher wind speeds, but ice building up on the cables is a different matter
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Alf  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 20:28

Now closed in both directions
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 20:28

Closed in both directions now.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: cambozpar  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 20:54

Shambles....... Someone should be hung for this
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 21:12

Safety is paramount in todays modern society I know it is a huge inconvenience for many who just want to get home

Authorities over react.. over elaborate.. over state ..but it is the safer option rather than being caught out and fatalities involved then all hell would break loose
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Alf  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 21:31

Quote:

cambozpar, Mon 10 Feb 20:54

Shambles....... Someone should be hung for this


A slight overreaction,
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: cambozpar  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 21:39

Is it not a shambles? Over £1.3 billion and grinds to halt with a wee bit snow
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Alf  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 21:42

How do you expect them to stop ice forming on the cables? Is it worth putting someone in danger if a chunk of ice were to fall and go through a windshield?
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 21:45

Must admit, I’m a bit miffed with this as well, can understand the closure for safety, it is just a bit naff that the first bit of snow that arrives and it’s come to a halt.

Didn’t think it was really that bad today either if I was being honest.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: cambozpar  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 21:49

Bad design for a country with inclement weather. Heated cables much like heating elenets in wind turbine blades to stop ice throw. People have already been put in danger and had there windscreens smashed thats why its shut. Not for the first time either.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 21:51

First closure in over 2 years. Chill out.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Alf  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 21:53

So to stop further incident they have closed it, correctly,
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: cambozpar  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 21:53

Im chilled out, i dont have to cross it tomorrow morning.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: cambozpar  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 21:58

Im not disputing that Alf, of course that is the correct thing to do to prevent the possibility of someone being hurt but you cant argue its not a major design flaw
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Alf  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 21:59

It may well be, but hanging someone is a bit of an overreaction, should all roads be heated to stop ice forming?
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: cambozpar  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 22:02

No but not all 1.7 miles stretches of road cost over £1.3 billion and they certainly dont get closed for a wee bit snow and slush.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 22:12

Glad you can call a storm that has hit the whole country and caused loads of closures and postponements a wee bit of snow and slush.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 22:23

Quote:

donj, Mon 10 Feb 22:12

Glad you can call a storm that has hit the whole country and caused loads of closures and postponements a wee bit of snow and slush.


Storm in a teacup from where I’ve been today at the Gyle.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: cambozpar  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 22:24

Thats whats shut the bridge, its open to cars up until the wind hits100mph so yeah a wee bit snow and slush
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Alf  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 22:25

It's the risk of ice falling from cables that shut it, not a wee bit slush
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: cambozpar  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 22:29

Yeah Ice caused by a wee bit snow turning to slush and freezing up on the cables
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Alf  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 22:32

Aye very good, I'm sure you know better
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 22:35

I guess the question is do other bridges in parts of the world with a similar climate to our have to close because of this.

No one would talk much in society if they realised how often they misunderstood others
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: cambozpar  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 22:38

oh aye nae bother obviously you think you know better so we'll leave it at that.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 22:51

Nat supporters - bridge is fab, safety is paramount, can't blame us for STORM Ciara

Everyone else - absolute joke, bridge is a joke, a wee bit of snow

Rinse and repeat

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 22:52

Guess all those times I had to use Kincardine bridge when I worked I should have whinged like you.Actually I just accepted it as the weather that nobody has control over.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: cambozpar  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 22:53

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl4OgGcvWzM

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 23:00

That seems to be a very labour intensive solution. Although it is a solution I suppose.
But... Surely there's an easier solution.



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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: cambozpar  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 23:06

Definitely ,not too good for the paint job either
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 23:07

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: cambozpar  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 23:19

Bingo, could have been implemented at the CDM stage. Its a known inherant problem on other bridges of the same type.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 23:21

Not sure how a game of bingo would help... But I'm in 🤣



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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 23:33

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 10 Feb 23:41

Playing devils advocate as I dont really know much about it but maybe they did a cost/benefit analysis and decided that if the bridge was only going to be closed once or twice a year for this then the money could be better spent elsewhere?

The new bridge has already managed to remain open on far more occasions than the old bridge could have but this particular problem seems to be its Kryprtonite.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: cambozpar  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 00:06

11 vehicles hit so far in ice fall incidents. Cost/benefit analysis shouldnt come in to it in my opinion.
Someone could be killed.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 00:19

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 01:36

FRB closed once in 55 years due to this scenario. QC closed twice in one year. Progress?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 02:14

It is rare but not uncommon in cooler climes. Even the much-vaunted Oresund Bridge that links Denmark and Sweden was closed due to ice falls three weeks ago.

As for taking precautionary measures in the design, well heating the cables would be enormously expensive and goodness knows how long it would take in chill conditions to reach a temperature that was effective against icing-up.

A Teflon-like application would certainly work, but I'll bet that, again, the prohibitive cost would rule it out in any cost-benefit analysis.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: DulochConvert  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 03:56

Just come back via Kincardine, they are setting it up like 2015. Kincardine bridge for South bound traffic, Clackmannanshire for North bound.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 07:04

Quote:

Raymie the Legend, Tue 11 Feb 01:36

FRB closed once in 55 years due to this scenario. QC closed twice in one year. Progress?


Well as a regular commuter going over the bridge using a vulnerable vehicle... I can say the new bridge has been brilliant so far.
I used to be regularly stopped on the FRB on what appeared to be nothing more than a slight breeze.

So while this particular scenario has happened more on the new bridge than the FRB, your comment ignores the multiple times a year the FRB had been shut to many road users who drive things other than cars
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 08:08

Quote:

cambozpar, Mon 10 Feb 20:54

Shambles....... Someone should be hung for this


I don't think some posters get hyperbole, cambozpar. ☹



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 08:23

So the motorway is shut at Admiralty so even if you want to park and ride at ferrytoll you can't. Tremendous work lads

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 08:25

Topic Originator: widtink like | nolike
Date: Mon 10 Feb 23:21

Not sure how a game of bingo would help... But I'm in 🤣


widtink..your not allowed to say two fat ladies anymore :-)
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 08:27

Can't see any reason why the bridge could not be opened now. Weather is decent. Can always be closed if it deteriorates again, but I suppose that would involve some kind of monitoring, which might be too much for some people to manage?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 09:14

Isn't it closed because of ice forming on the over head structures and falling onto the cars? Not really to do with the current weather conditions.

No one would talk much in society if they realised how often they misunderstood others
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 09:45

BBC reporting it could be shut until at least tomorrow.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 09:48

Clackmannanshire bridge closed as well today apparently ??
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 10:01

Quote:

cambozpar, Mon 10 Feb 22:38

oh aye nae bother obviously you think you know better so we'll leave it at that.


Reading your postsson this thread my grandbairns know better. You just got it wrong this time.

I wonder what the bridge would have cost if they fitted a heating system. And what it would cost to run

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 10:27

Quote:

Buspasspar, Tue 11 Feb 09:48

Clackmannanshire bridge closed as well today apparently ??


Where did you hear that? It’s open just now.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 10:39

My wife saw it on facebook allparone which I found it hard to believe unless it was an accident ?
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: DAFC23  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 10:52

Think they are doing same as they did when frb was shut. All southbound traffic going over kincardine and northbound over the clackmannan bridge. Trying to improve traffic flow i would imagine
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 11:11

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 11:13

I don’t think that was in place this morning. There was a big queue on the clacks bridge heading southbound. When they did this the last time the road was closed between Kincardine and Cairneyhill and all northbound traffic was sent via Oakley. I don’t think that was the case this morning either.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 12:34

Quote:

renegade master, Tue 11 Feb 11:11

Parrot
It would not have been overly expensive the miles and miles of oil pipelines have them installed as standard it's very simple system involving heating element wires.

As running costs and what I still find hard to comprehend under current building regulations the whole bridge from what I can see has no renewable energy devices installed. Small wind turbines and solar panels (even forming the wind shields) could have provided the bridge and the control centre with all the power it would ever need and powered any heating system required!


You would have thought they would have installed it on the bridge from Denmark to Sweden then. Unless you're talking nonsense.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 12:54

Does that bridge close for ice falling off it's structures onto vehicles below? Genuine question. Is this a problem for many recently built bridges around the world?

No one would talk much in society if they realised how often they misunderstood others
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 12:56

Just had Boris Johnson phone me about his Scotland - N.Ireland bridge. Sent him a link to this thread as we clearly have a lot of bridge engineers following the Pars.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 13:10

Topic Originator: DBP |
Date: Tue 11 Feb 07:04

Quote:

Raymie the Legend, Tue 11 Feb 01:36

FRB closed once in 55 years due to this scenario. QC closed twice in one year. Progress?


Well as a regular commuter going over the bridge using a vulnerable vehicle... I can say the new bridge has been brilliant so far.
I used to be regularly stopped on the FRB on what appeared to be nothing more than a slight breeze.

So while this particular scenario has happened more on the new bridge than the FRB, your comment ignores the multiple times a year the FRB had been shut to many road users who drive things other than cars


That's a fair point, DBP, but keep in mind the FRB was built in 1964, so the current design has benefited from over 50 years worth of technological improvements and learnings.




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 13:16

Reading comments from Michael Matheson, Transport Secretary, that the FRB couldn't be used as back at this time as one half of the carriageway has been completely dug up.
My initial thoughts are, why not carry out this type of work in the summer, when the chances of the FRB being needed as a backup to the QC, would have been greatly reduced?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 13:20

That work has been going on for months Raymie. I’ve noticed replies from the FRB twitter account saying the same thing for a while now. It’s not a small job that takes a few weeks by the sounds of it. They had sections (may still have) completely removed from the carriageway.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 13:38

And it has RTL, evidenced by the fact that I can get across it on multiple occasions where the older bridge works be shut to me.

As for anything to do with extreme weather, my view is that we don't live in a country that routinely suffers from extreme weather... I still remember my old neighbour buying a 4x4 after the heavy snow a few years back when we were unable to get the cars up the hill... Since then, he paid all the extra fuel and VED for about 4 years (before he got rid) and there wasn't one day during that time when I cotogne jump in the car and drive up the hill
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Big T Par  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 16:10

Took me two and a half hours to get from The Gyle to KVH today. Mental queues. Got quite a tour of Fife though, so not all bad.



Post Edited (Tue 11 Feb 16:15)
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 16:39

Where's KVH? I didn't go in today. Won't be going in tomorrow either.

Most of the folk round me should be fine given all the 4x4s. Shame most of them are 2x4 in the guise of a 4x4.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: StevenPar77  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 16:47

Kirkcaldy Victoria Hospital possibly?

http://www.agiftfor.net
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Big T Par  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 17:19

Aye, the Hospital mate.

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 18:09

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Tue 11 Feb 12:54

Does that bridge close for ice falling off it's structures onto vehicles below? Genuine question. Is this a problem for many recently built bridges around the world?


Yes and yes
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 18:47

Towk yes and remember the higher they build them the colder it is up there so add -0.65 degrees for every ?.....ach ah canny mind from the school science classes :-)
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 19:39

Any idea if it will be open tomorrow? All I can find is “until tomorrow “. What does that mean?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 19:56

I think the last release said that it would be around mid day tomorrow weather dependant.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: parforthecourse  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 20:32

Worked from home today but have to go in tomorrow.

Anyone use the trains today? First one at 0630 will presumably not be totally rammed?
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 20:36

A shambles.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Jose_Mourinho  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 20:37

Fife Jammers on facebook saying Kincardine bridge is closed but nothing on traffic Scotland, single lane both ways clackmannan bridge
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 22:24

I'm trying to think of a word to describe Fife Jammers that won't offend anyone especially admin.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"

Post Edited (Wed 12 Feb 08:40)
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 23:52

Quote:

renegade master, Tue 11 Feb 11:11

Parrot
It would not have been overly expensive the miles and miles of oil pipelines have them installed as standard it's very simple system involving heating element wires.

As running costs and what I still find hard to comprehend under current building regulations the whole bridge from what I can see has no renewable energy devices installed. Small wind turbines and solar panels (even forming the wind shields) could have provided the bridge and the control centre with all the power it would ever need and powered any heating system required!


If they put all those wee turbiney helicopter things on the bridge with yon wind, would it maybe no take off?

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Tue 11 Feb 23:55

Quote:

Raymie the Legend, Tue 11 Feb 13:16

Reading comments from Michael Matheson, Transport Secretary, that the FRB couldn't be used as back at this time as one half of the carriageway has been completely dug up.
My initial thoughts are, why not carry out this type of work in the summer, when the chances of the FRB being needed as a backup to the QC, would have been greatly reduced?


Because folk wouls say, "Why are the doing this when everyone is going their holidays and all the tourists are flooding the place. Why not do it in the winter when its quieter?"

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: allparone  
Date:   Wed 12 Feb 00:01

Quote:

Jose_Mourinho, Tue 11 Feb 20:37

Fife Jammers on facebook saying Kincardine bridge is closed but nothing on traffic Scotland, single lane both ways clackmannan bridge


Kincardine bridge is closed northbound just now to allow for traffic management works for tomorrow. It’s open southbound. Just been over it.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Wed 12 Feb 07:34

Was wondering what would happen if we got a repeat of the winters of 2009 and 2010? Bridge closed for months?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Mario  
Date:   Wed 12 Feb 07:48

I see Ian Blackford is all at sea with his bridges, taunting Boris in Parliament about building one from Scotland to N Ireland across the North Sea...
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 12 Feb 08:24

Can you imagine life in Portpatrick if the Tories go ahead and build the bridge
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: parforthecourse  
Date:   Wed 12 Feb 08:28

Drove to IK in the end and got train at 0619. Very busy on arrival, but got on at least.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Jose_Mourinho  
Date:   Wed 12 Feb 11:10

Bridge is back open, opened at 1045
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: shrek par  
Date:   Wed 12 Feb 20:10

Left at 5 both days got in for 6 no drama . **** happens few extra hours but such is life

Admin.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Wed 12 Feb 22:13

Quote:

Buspasspar, Wed 12 Feb 08:24

Can you imagine life in Portpatrick if the Tories go ahead and build the bridge


Does Boris' dad have a house in Portpatrick by any chance?

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Wed 12 Feb 23:13

Seems a certain Mr Carlaw was o the design committee. 🤔🤔🤔
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Wed 12 Feb 23:27

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Wed 12 Feb 23:56

How is this closure of two days or so worse than a closure of weeks?

No one would talk much in society if they realised how often they misunderstood others
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Wed 12 Feb 23:57

Cos folk like a good moan 🤣



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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 00:05

Ahh yes Widders. I thought it would be something along those lines.

No one would talk much in society if they realised how often they misunderstood others
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: PARrot  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 00:11

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Wed 12 Feb 23:56

How is this closure of two days or so worse than a closure of weeks?


I think we need some closure on this.

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 00:20

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 00:31

RM, your concerns are only down to the fact that the bridge has some sort of notional link to the Scottish Government. Now granted the SNP have tried to play up the construction of the bridge as to a sign of capable governance but that doesn't mean you have to, as default position, assume that every and any problem is automatically a failure of the bridge authorities. Rise above the politics and treat issues on their own merit. I asked if other bridges around the world suffer from similar issues with ice and have been told they do. Seems its one of those things.

No one would talk much in society if they realised how often they misunderstood others
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 09:46

Amazing to think that there is actually 70 km of cable on that bridge. This article answers most of the questions about ice formations on bridges worldwide...


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-51473419
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 09:53

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 10:04

Whenever something goes wrong with public works it's always deemed to be the fault of politicians but sometimes that lets others off the hook. For example, the problems at the Queen Elizabeth hospital in Glasgow and the new Sick Kids' hospital in Edinburgh were surely design or construction problems which should have been rectified earlier but no one seems to be accountable for them. The practice of blaming politicians isn't confined to Scotland of course, it's worldwide.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 10:14

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 10:24

Think Salmond is going to leave an entirely different legacy?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 11:49

Quote:

renegade master, Thu 13 Feb 09:53

TOWK

No political slant on the post above. Regardless of who in government if they knew these problems existed last year why has no action been taken?

If the SNP and Salmond in particular wants to herald the Queensferry Crossing as being down to them their legacy to Scotland etc etc and take all the plaudits for building a bridge that will never close.

Then when it does close for something as basic as snow coming from the West and the towers being higher than the road so slightly colder the same as happened last year. They can expect the criticism that comes with it, you can't have it one way.

I'm afraid this Scottish Government has become very predictable when its good its very very good and it was all our doing. When it goes wrong or is bad or fails its not our fault its always someone else usually Westminster.

I saw a tweet yesterday saying Jackson Carlaw was on the QFC committee so he needs to be careful what he says. Really that is a hell of a finger to be pointing!


So what is your solution. Heating the cables from a past post I noticed. Seems this had been tried unsuccessfully.

Prof Christos Georgakis, from the department of engineering at Aarhus University in Denmark says: "Ice is a very difficult problem to deal with."

He explained: "We have tried in the past many different solutions, coatings on cables, heating systems, even helicopters to come and try to blow all the snow and ice off with downwash, but it is a very difficult problem."

Seems you know better though.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 11:59

Overspends on private contracts are unlikely to attract the sort of publicity those on public contracts do. We'll never hear about them. It would be odd if designers/constructors got things right on private contracts but not public contracts.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 12:56

A large proportion of Government overspends are often down to the use of private sector consultancies. Governments almost never have the expertise in-house, so they contract this in at quite mouth-watering commercial rates.

Government officials invariably have no understanding of the concept of "sticking to the spec", so vast amounts of money are spent on changes. Politicians constantly interfere in projects with the result that specs and drawings are almost always subject to amendments. Sometimes things get so bad that a project has to literally go back to the drawing board and start again almost from scratch.

I have first-hand experience of this.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 14:09

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 14:28

In terms of Government spending wastes, the Bridge is a drop in the water compared to the absolute disgrace that is HS2. £100,000,000,000+ (100 Billion) just to shave around 20mins from Birmingham to London. Incredible stuff...
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 14:28

It closed for a day and a half. Chill out.

If we want to moan about government contracts then query the Edinburgh trams or Edinburgh sick kids. Far more serious.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 14:40

Quote:

jake89, Thu 13 Feb 14:28

It closed for a day and a half. Chill out.

If we want to moan about government contracts then query the Edinburgh trams or Edinburgh sick kids. Far more serious.


Edinburgh trams was an Edinburgh council contract not a government contract.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 14:47

Local government.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 14:51

Well it was an Edinburgh Council contract which was funded by the Scottish Government. Hence the reason why in 2007 the snp almost pulled the plug on it.

No one would talk much in society if they realised how often they misunderstood others
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 16:16

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Thu 13 Feb 14:51

Well it was an Edinburgh Council contract which was funded by the Scottish Government. Hence the reason why in 2007 the snp almost pulled the plug on it.


Yes so a council contract. Administered by the council really badly.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 16:42

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 17:16

Governments always 'waste' money.

HS2 is already over budget and it's hardly started.

Who remembers the Millennium Dome?

What about Brexit and the rolling out of Universal Credit?

The cost of the refurbishment of Big Ben has also been underestimated.

The Northern rail franchise has recently been put into public ownership.

Bailing out the banks in 2008.

That's just off the top of my head. It seems to be what governments do.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 17:53

Bailing out the bank's was hardly due to government inefficiency!

One thing to consider is that all of these projects involved private companies. The issue with tenders is they put in silly quotes that end up resulting in corners being cut or additional costs later on.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 13 Feb 18:39

''Bailing out the bank's was hardly due to government inefficiency!''

Wasn't government deregulation of the banking sector a major contributor to the problem?
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: back oh the net  
Date:   Fri 14 Feb 07:01

Quote:

renegade master, Thu 13 Feb 16:42

Abelio (cancel the contract after they do everything asked of them investing millions and making major improvements)



You having a laugh at what point during Abelio’s time in charge of this country’s rail network have they made “major improvements” have you tried getting on a train at peak times? and then we have the fife circle at weekends it’s normally 6 sometimes 7 coaches long and it’s for the most part empty when busy routes such has dundee to Edinburgh Perth to Edinburgh and Inverness to Edinburgh all get fobed off 3 maybe even 4 coaches if you are lucky

Come on ye pars ⚽️
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Berry  
Date:   Fri 14 Feb 09:20

‘I'm afraid this Scottish Government has become very predictable when its good its very very good and it was all our doing. When it goes wrong or is bad or fails its not our fault its always someone else usually Westminster.’

Slightly off topic but on the above point, on QT a question was about how we tackle the increased deaths associated with drug use in Dundee. First thing out the SNP’s mouth was Westminster.

Post Edited (Fri 14 Feb 09:26)
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Fri 14 Feb 09:49

Well Considering drug policies are set by Westminster and not Holyrood...

We've requested control of this to look into things, always rejected by the Tories
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 14 Feb 10:08

Quote:

Andrew283, Fri 14 Feb 09:49

We've requested control of this to look into things, always rejected by the Tories


"We've"?

Drug rooms were rejected by the UK Government. They don't, however, control spending on research into the effects of adverse childhood experiences, place or mental health support, all of which are linked to drug use.

Post Edited (Fri 14 Feb 10:12)
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Fri 14 Feb 11:45

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 14 Feb 12:01

I think investment has gone up since. It needs a whole systems approach though. Need to have government, local authorities, third sector and health boards/partnerships working together. There's no silver bullet and the needs of somewhere like Dunfermline are different to Glasgow. Personal view is there is way too much focus on developing solutions and approaches based solely on views in Glasgow or Edinburgh. We call on our MPs to get out their London bubble but the same needs to happen in Scotland.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: back oh the net  
Date:   Fri 14 Feb 12:17

so no answer on where abelio have made "major improvements" then RM? nah thought as much

Come on ye pars ⚽️
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 14 Feb 12:31

Have to say the Glasgow-Edinburgh line is fantastic. I use it fairly regularly. The Fife service is woeful. Third largest region in Scotland and still getting 2 carriage diesel units at peak times. Journeys have dropped and bridge traffic is up.

The Scottish Government's approach seems to be to allow house building around Glasgow and Edinburgh with little thought to where these people will work. They need to be looking to move Government offices out of the cities. When the bridge was shut this week my office was apparently a ghost town due to all the Fifers working from home. When more than half of your office is Fifers you really begin to question why on Earth the office is in Edinburgh!

Not sure who will replace Abellio but the big problem is having a franchise who don't control the rolling stock or rails they run on. I'd bet most of the issues have actually been a result of Network Rail infrastructure or the rolling stock. Wasn't the big Abellio issue that the the ordered rolling stock was late? Aren't we still waiting on some of these new trains?
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Fri 14 Feb 13:06

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: back oh the net  
Date:   Fri 14 Feb 15:46

Quote:

renegade master, Fri 14 Feb 13:06

Back oh the net

https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/future-of-scotrail-in-doubt-as-abellio-stripped-of-rail-contract-without-replacement-plan-1-5064270

A good summing up as the investment they put in starts to bring improvements.

Explains how delays to new stock has slowed down the improvements!

But you knew all that and you are more than capable of using Google!


So still nothing about major improvements then all that tells us is what they HOPED to put in place dress it up anyway you want but the only improvement made under this shower of cowboys is the Edinburgh to Glasgow service which jake has already mentioned the rest still remain a shambles it cost me less to go to Dumfries via Carlisle two weeks ago than it would have for me to go via glasgow Central so not only are they making improvements they are ripping us off

Come on ye pars ⚽️
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Fri 14 Feb 16:18

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Fri 14 Feb 19:20

All got a bit silly as I believe the bridge is open now.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Fri 14 Feb 20:06

Best punctuality and fewer cancellations? That has to be trolling on a Fife forum 😂


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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Fri 14 Feb 23:03

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Fri 14 Feb 23:35

To be totally honest I'd much prefer all rail and buses to be public services with no profits to shareholders etc.
I reckon Lothian Buses have shown how well it can work.

Thing is the much better european railways are not nationalised but work better.Maybe because the fatcats are not taking all the cream.

https://www.citymetric.com/transport/continent-s-approach-rail-liberalisation-holds-lessons-britain-3727
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 09:28

Who are RBS? Never heard of them.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: JnrB  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 13:24

Quote:

back oh the net, Fri 14 Feb 07:01

Quote:

renegade master, Thu 13 Feb 16:42

Abelio (cancel the contract after they do everything asked of them investing millions and making major improvements)



You having a laugh at what point during Abelio’s time in charge of this country’s rail network have they made “major improvements” have you tried getting on a train at peak times? and then we have the fife circle at weekends it’s normally 6 sometimes 7 coaches long and it’s for the most part empty when busy routes such has dundee to Edinburgh Perth to Edinburgh and Inverness to Edinburgh all get fobed off 3 maybe even 4 coaches if you are lucky


Not to rain on your parade, but you can’t have a 7 coach service on the fife circle.......... also not ‘normally’ 6 coaches at the weekend. Not denying anything else you have said, just that part as it’s factually incorrect.

Post Edited (Sat 15 Feb 13:24)
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 13:39

You can have 7. Just wouldn't all be accessible from the platform. Same applies for a few stations on the Glasgow line.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: JnrB  
Date:   Sat 15 Feb 13:53

You can on the Glasgow line as they are electric trains and you can select what doors to open. Trust me, scotrail don’t run 7 cars on the fife circle.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 11:52

Renegade, not necessarily disagreeing but that gov. pretty much shoehorned BoS into Lloyds and the end result has been tens of thousands of job losses since

(so not sure if use that particular example)

Post Edited (Sun 16 Feb 11:53)
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 12:08

I didn't say Scotrail did, I said they could. LNER use Kirkcaldy even though their carriages are longer than the platform.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 12:10

As for banking - HBoS is effectively just a brass plaque. Scottish operations reduced. RBS is the same. Chief Exec isn't even based at their "Global HQ" and now they won't even be known as RBS. Dunfermline was handed to Nationwide and now their HQ is a glorified call centre.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: JnrB  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 12:23

Quote:

jake89, Sun 16 Feb 12:08

I didn't say Scotrail did, I said they could. LNER use Kirkcaldy even though their carriages are longer than the platform.


They can’t Jake. If they were to run more than a 6 car, they would have to isolate the doors on the rear coaches that wouldn’t be on the platform, and because of that the whole coach would have to be locked out of use for safety reasons as there would be no route of escape in an emergency for passengers in said coaches.

The Lner services can do it as they also have selective door operation, the diesel scotrail trains don’t have that.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 14:27

But they COULD if they weren't running old carriages.

The slam door ones are a disgrace.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 14:58

How many carriages does the "harry potter train" as the commuters call it have everyday- the one with the engine, I think it leaves Edinburgh at 5.11 pm at night and goes over at 8 ish in the morning ?
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 16:09

5 I think.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 20:33

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 21:09

You lost me a bit as why are you blaming the SNP for not bailing out the banks?
I'm pretty sure they had and still have no control over banks.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 21:21

Or ask why Dunfermline BS wasn't bailed out whilst others were.

Worth also noting the taxpayer hasn't earned money from bailing out RBS. They could have built nearly 35 Queensferry Crossings for the money spent on RBS.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 22:12

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 22:59

You really hate the SNP but saying they never saved the banks from a crisis caused by the government deregulation says it all.And picking on penny things,compared to that, hardly an answer.
We could throw Ravenscraig,Linwood etc in if you want to play games.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 16 Feb 22:59

You seem to be saying that all interventions and public works financed by Westminster have been successful and justified despite evidence to the contrary. Also the resources available to Holyrood for similar expenditure is severely restricted.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 17 Feb 19:46

The difference with DBS is that it needed a short term loan to support its losses rather than saving to the extent of HBoS, RBS, Northern Rock etc. This was supposedly around £25m. Instead it was punted off to Nationwide for the reasonable parts of the business.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Mon 17 Feb 22:00

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 17 Feb 22:41

That's what my question was. Why bail out RBS at a cost of billions whilst deciding not to bother with DBS who needed a few million? Seemed very cynical.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Tue 18 Feb 09:02

The banking system in this country isn't designed to provide useful and sustainable financial products, it is designed to make the highest short term profits for banks and bonuses for senior bank employees.

The regulations have been set by senior bankers for years whilst those who work for the actual regulator are doing so in the hope of acquiring a top investment banking job. If that's not a conflict of interest then I don't know what is. But then we have always been experts at legitimising corrupt behaviours in this country.

There were ways to protect the economy without providing massive bailouts to failures. Give the money to people, to spend, instead. Perhaps by paying the mortgages of those screwed over by the banking system's greed and regulatory failings.

Or take advantage of labour availability by investing in massive infrastructure works. Those billions would provide jobs, putting cash into the economy, and further boost the economy for years to come through improved transport, education, etc.

But no. Let's just reward failure in the most heinous way we can. And let's pay for it by demonising and taking from the already impoverished who played no part whatsoever in creating the mess.

The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel the warmth.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 18 Feb 09:27

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 18 Feb 09:56

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Perkins  
Date:   Tue 18 Feb 16:48

DBS's problems were a lot bigger than a short term £25m loan unfortunately.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Tue 18 Feb 16:50

The budget for infrastructure projects was cut along with everything else, so that we could pay it all to failed banks.

The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel the warmth.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 18 Feb 19:05

The request from DBS was for £25m.

As for infrastructure projects. Building additional capacity on roads should be rejected in most cases. Investment should be in public transport. It says a lot about Scotland's supposed green future when rail journeys have reduced whilst the population has grown. I don't know if this is being researched but it'd be fair to suggest this is because the service in Fife (the third largest area in Scotland) is abysmal. So, rather than investing in roads, the investment should be in improving those services so that people are moving efficiently on public transport rather than sitting nose to tail in traffic made up of hundreds/thousands of cars with single occupants.

I raised these points many times with Michael Matheson without reply. I've also fed in around the farcical local plans and had no response from ministers.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 18 Feb 19:38

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 18 Feb 19:54

Well it was a massive success on the M4...
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: renegade master  
Date:   Tue 18 Feb 19:57

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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Wed 19 Feb 07:14

<<You could make the inside lane of 3 a bus at peak times. Then people would benefit from using public transport.>>


In Australia, well at least in Victoria where I live, on the major toll roads in peak times, the OUTSIDE lane is designated for buses, taxis and cars carrying more than one person. Also, on three-lane highways, trucks are never allowed in the outside lane.

We have extensive use of highway cameras and fines are very, very steep.

It works pretty well.
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 Re: Queensferry crossing southbound closed
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Wed 19 Feb 12:54

The Scottish budget is based on the UK budget which is set by Westminster.

The UK budget was slashed to pay the banks back what they lost on a dangerous bet.

As a result of this the Barnett Formula provided in a much reduced Scottish budget.

The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel the warmth.
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