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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 9 Nov 14:44
Austria has taken a hard line against citizens who have not been vaccinated against Covid. The restrictions also apply to visitors to the country.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/8/austria-introduces-new-covid-restrictions-as-cases-surge
I'd imagine other countries will be watching developments with interest and may follow suit, if these restrictions bring about a significant reduction in the number of new daily cases.
Coercion is not something I'm at all comfortable with, but Austria's political leaders obviously felt drastic action was needed to arrest the outbreak.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Tue 9 Nov 16:51
Just keeps on creeping, the oldest trick in the book.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Tue 9 Nov 16:54
I suspect, what with the crossover between brexiteers and covid-deniers, that this is going to create some cognitive dissonance for lots of folk around the concept of sovereignty.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Tue 9 Nov 17:15
Always preferred a takeaway anyway to be fair. :)
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 9 Nov 18:04
It couldn't happen here, or could it?
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Tue 9 Nov 18:43
Is what it is GG, they have the power to do what they want and if they invoked it, it would work for the majority I imagine.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Tue 9 Nov 18:51
The Prime Minister doesn`t even wear a mask while in a hospital of course it won`t happen here.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: parsfan
Date: Tue 9 Nov 19:42
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Tue 9 Nov 18:51
The Prime Minister doesn`t even wear a mask while in a hospital of course it won`t happen here.
Well, for him and his ilk at least.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 9 Nov 20:00
Not many Governments are daft enough to embark on a policy which may lose them a lot of votes.....
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: ianbd6
Date: Tue 9 Nov 20:53
I am going to Vienna in December so I have been taking a keen interest in what is happening. We are both fully Vaccinated but I am still a bit twitchy incase they decide to take it further. I am against forcing folk to do anything really especially when it is injected into you. I am not sure what COVID cases in Fife are like but here in Bradford we had a huge rise in cases. The thing was the areas with the highest number of cases are some of the more affluent and also the areas with the highest uptake in the vaccines. The areas with some of the lowest cases are also some of the poorer areas and also have low vaccine uptake. I can see where the sceptic's are coming from although I am not one of them yet.
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Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh
Date: Tue 9 Nov 23:01
This is something that is repeating itself across the world.
Areas with low vaccine coverage had higher rates throughout the year, but now they are starting to be overtaken by areas with high vaccine uptake. This is because the vaccine persistence against infection and transmission seems to be very poor, and recent natural infection probably offers better protection than a vaccine given 9 months ago.
We are getting into silly territory now, and the only winner is Pfizer.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Wed 10 Nov 08:07
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Tue 9 Nov 18:51
The Prime Minister doesn`t even wear a mask while in a hospital of course it won`t happen here.
Oh it will happen here, for the plebs.
All about money and control now, people being coerced into a life of 6 monthly jabs there is no long term data on.
Two weeks to flatten the curve eh, even the language 7sed by dome of you lot.. "I don' agree with coercion...but"
And folks wondered how so many ordinary people ended up supporting the holocaust.
Some of you would have me held down and forced, have a think about that.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Wed 10 Nov 08:27
Quote:
ianbd6, Tue 09 Nov 20:53
I am going to Vienna in December so I have been taking a keen interest in what is happening. We are both fully Vaccinated but I am still a bit twitchy incase they decide to take it further. I am against forcing folk to do anything really especially when it is injected into you. I am not sure what COVID cases in Fife are like but here in Bradford we had a huge rise in cases. The thing was the areas with the highest number of cases are some of the more affluent and also the areas with the highest uptake in the vaccines. The areas with some of the lowest cases are also some of the poorer areas and also have low vaccine uptake. I can see where the sceptic's are coming from although I am not one of them yet.
“Active” cases in Fife as of today is 6776, and increase of around 1800 from last week. This is useful to understand as this shows the number of people isolating and the ongoing impact to others.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 10 Nov 09:39
It should be up to an individual as to whether or not they choose to get vaccinated. Not being vaccinated doesn't necessarily make you a COVID-denier, plenty of unvaccinated people accept COVID exists but do not feel the risk of catching the virus outweighs the risk of receiving a new vaccine, where long term effects are yet to be seen.
We are led by idiots. We have the likes of JRM claiming no masks needed as they're all good pals in the Commons. We then have a PM visiting a hospital without a mask. Perhaps the companies making masks didn't offer a big enough donation?
The worst bit? These scumbags will be voted in again.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Wed 10 Nov 09:43
Governments use coercion all the time. If you don`t wear a seat belt you can be fined 500 quid.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Wed 10 Nov 09:53
Spoke to a colleague in Germany yesterday on the subject of masks. As he going to a trade show next week and a specific design of mask is required with an allotted “safe” time to use and a mandated downtime in a segregated area without a mask on.
These rules are now in place in Munich with hospitalisation rates above 600 people. As a company we must comply by the Bavarian laws. But as has been said, who makes these rules, how common are they, do they work, how effective, at what cost…….
So many other questions.
The main thing is that without a “world strategy” of understanding what they want to do with this virus (eradication, containment or just another virus) then there has to be a consensus. However given the EU is as corrupt as many south East Asian nations, then there will be no agreement.
It is a true mess and they expect an agreement on CO2 emissions. Dream on Greta my dear.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Wed 10 Nov 09:54
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Wed 10 Nov 09:43
Governments use coercion all the time. If you don`t wear a seat belt you can be fined 500 quid.
A seat belt has proven long term effects, doesn't put anything in trial phase in your body and can be talked about in a balanced manner.
Poor comparison.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Wed 10 Nov 10:45
Good to know that the vaccination of females some 10/15 years ago has more or less eradicated the incidence of cervical cancer!
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Wed 10 Nov 10:55
Should start vaccinating boys as well. The hpv has been linked with many cancers that effect both sexes.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Wed 10 Nov 11:13
The vaccine isn't compulsory here and isn't anywhere as far as I am aware?
Giving people incentives to choose a particular course of actions is not the same as forcing somebody to perform that action.
If I say "you can only come into my house if you wear pink trousers" you then have no case for accusing me of forcing you to wear pink trousers, because I'm not forcing you to come into my house, you have a choice.
The way some people are talking in this thread it's like we are under threat of being shot or jailed if we don't get the jag.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Wed 10 Nov 11:14
Quote:
Rastapari, Wed 10 Nov 08:07
And folks wondered how so many ordinary people ended up supporting the holocaust.
I know the thread title is about Hitler's birthplace, but we seem to be getting into the territory of Godwin's Law ... :)
_________________
 Support Dunfermline Athletic Disabled Supporters` Club (DADSC) when you shop online with one of 8000 firms: https://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/dadsc[
Post Edited (Wed 10 Nov 11:17)
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Wed 10 Nov 12:14
Like I said, amazing how people's language changes to suit the narrative.
It would be interesting to see if the protection from prosecution was removed whether the vaccines would be available this time next year.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 10 Nov 12:43
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Wed 10 Nov 10:55
Should start vaccinating boys as well. The hpv has been linked with many cancers that effect both sexes.
Already happening.
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Wed 10 Nov 14:16
Id never heard of godwins law before, but will start using it! 🤣
Post Edited (Wed 10 Nov 14:17)
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Wed 10 Nov 14:22
Quote:
Stanza, Wed 10 Nov 11:14
Quote:
Rastapari, Wed 10 Nov 08:07
And folks wondered how so many ordinary people ended up supporting the holocaust.
I know the thread title is about Hitler's birthplace, but we seem to be getting into the territory of Godwin's Law ... :)
There are direct comparisons that can be made.
If the roles were reversed I'm sure you would all be as pragmatic.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Wed 10 Nov 14:23
‘Areas with low vaccine coverage had higher rates throughout the year, but now they are starting to be overtaken by areas with high vaccine uptake. This is because the vaccine persistence against infection and transmission seems to be very poor, and recent natural infection probably offers better protection than a vaccine given 9 months ago.’
This interpretation would make some sense. The vaccines were rushed out and their capability might never amount to as much as people hoped: we struggle to vaccinate against the ‘flu each year. No doubt the vaccines will become more effective over time but until then what lies ahead seems to be vaccination in perpetuity otherwise moves will be made to exclude you from public life.
For the time being I will stick to my tried and trusted vaccine which helped see me through a dose of Covid a few months back. My friend (double jabbed) who caught Covid also recommends it.
sammer
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Wed 10 Nov 14:38
Godwin’s Law is useful advice when we get het up about a particular issue. It does have some relevance in respect of this topic however, even if Rastapari’s reference to the Holocaust is a bit drastic. The removal of the right to participate in public life in respect of ‘enemies of the state’ was a slow process in Nazi Germany which began with being banned from swimming pools and libraries, then schools, then the right to own property or stand for public office. That eventually led to life behind barbed wire in either a camp or a ghetto where enemies of the state were forced to wear what might be termed a visible non QR code.
The Final Solution is better known due to its ultimate horror, but it would not really have been possible without 8 years of eroding the rights of citizens who disagreed with or were deemed unsuitable for the Third Reich. I can’t see that as a remotely likely consequence for conscientious objectors to vaccination but the development of two tier citizenship is never a healthy sign.
sammer
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Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Wed 10 Nov 17:18
Quote:
jake89, Wed 10 Nov 09:39
It should be up to an individual as to whether or not they choose to get vaccinated. Not being vaccinated doesn't necessarily make you a COVID-denier, plenty of unvaccinated people accept COVID exists but do not feel the risk of catching the virus outweighs the risk of receiving a new vaccine, where long term effects are yet to be seen.
I think Jake you’ve summed up better than I could the category I’m in so thank you.
Wotsit, agree, if it is your house you’re entitled to let in who you wish under whatever circumstances you want, pink trousers or no trousers at all.
I’d be comfortable if bars, restaurants, football grounds etc came out on their own accord and advised they are only comfortable letting vaccinated people in…it’s their premises. It’s not happening that way obviously with Government mandating it.
Not sure in some scenarios incentivise is the right word, my interpretation of that is free movie tickets, £50 cash, entry into a lottery, would class those as incentives.
Government taking something away that you have been openly able to do and then make people have to take a vaccine to get back to them, in my view, is a form of coercion, not incentivising. Yes you are not forced to take the vaccine but they are doing everything but.
Think I might chap on sammers door and try a few of his vaccines!
Post Edited (Wed 10 Nov 17:19)
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Wed 10 Nov 17:20
I believe that the point where the "reasonable comparison" defence against Godwin`s Law fails in this case is that of consent.
Those targeted by the holocaust did not make a conscious decision to be (for example) Jewish or Roma. They just were.
For this reason it is, I would argue, unreasonable to make a direct comparison between those who choose not to be vaccinated and those who were targeted by Nazi propaganda and, later, death camps.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 10 Nov 17:27
A key thing people seem to be forgetting is that the vaccine does not protect you from contracting the virus - it protects you from becoming seriously ill from the virus.
For example, plenty of pregnant people are catching COVID, but 99% of the the ones who are hospitalised are unvaccinated. This is.far higher than the wider public, presumably because pregnant people are more hesitant about being vaccinated due to concerns about their unborn child.
There's a lot of whitabootery on vaccinated Vs unvaccinated and I think this tells us that there is no perfect approach. Given the high uptake in the UK and considering the majority of unvaccinated are younger, presumably the risk to the NHS is now relatively low? Infection Vs hospitalisation figures seem to suggest this is the case but I don't work in a hospital so I may be way off the mark!
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Wed 10 Nov 17:37
I’d be comfortable if bars, restaurants, football grounds etc came out on their own accord and advised they are only comfortable letting vaccinated people in…it’s their premises. It’s not happening that way obviously with Government mandating it.
How would it work if the government didn`t mandate it? How would insurance premiums work? Would the businesses without a vaccine mandate not have to pay more tax since they would be, according to current scientific advice, going to increase infection levels and therefore put strain on public finances due to increased absence from work and higher hospital occupation.
What if only a few businesses decide to not have a vaccine rule? That would then encourage the unvaccinated people to congregate in smaller and smaller spaces and, despite protestations to the contrary, the least good outcome of this would be for the unvaccinated to congregate together, we need them spread out if herd immunity is to work!
Not sure in some scenarios incentivise is the right word, my interpretation of that is free movie tickets, £50 cash, entry into a lottery, would class those as incentives.
Government taking something away that you have been openly able to do and then make people have to take a vaccine to get back to them, in my view, is a form of coercion, not incentivising. Yes you are not forced to take the vaccine but they are doing everything but.
Coercion would be the threat of physical harm by the use or threat of force, which isn`t happening here, so "incentive" is the more accurate word in my view.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Wed 10 Nov 19:46
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Wed 10 Nov 16:41
Looks like Germany is teetering on the brink of a fourth wave worst than the rest combined.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59234443
So how can this be with such high vaccine take up?
Deep down I think you know something stinks but you're kind of all in at this point.
Doesn't exactly scream " get the vaccine quick it's working" does it?
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Wed 10 Nov 21:50
Wotsit, You have made what appears a very important distinction. But I’m afraid it fails.
‘Those targeted by the holocaust did not make a conscious decision to be (for example) Jewish or Roma. They just were. For this reason it is, I would argue, unreasonable to make a direct comparison between those who choose not to be vaccinated and those who were targeted by Nazi propaganda and, later, death camps.’
The Nazis killed 6 million Jews and 26 million USSR citizens. Let that number sink in for just one moment. 26 million. Five times more than the entire population of Scotland. Almost half of the UK population at the time. They just liked killing people who were different! Or people who would not bend the knee to fascism.
Do you really think the Nazis only killed Jews? The whole point of fascism is to exterminate the weak or opponents until there are no victims worth killing! It’s the history of Homo Sapiens in fast forward mode; lets slow it down best we can. It’s the best we will manage.
sammer
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Wed 10 Nov 23:13
Rasta, only 57% of the Saxony region have been vaccinated. Over 16 million a Germans haven`t been innoculated. It now sadly looks like they will pay a heavy price. As the German minister said in the article "this is now a pandemic of the unvaccinated".
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Thu 11 Nov 07:34
Coercion: the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats
Using force doesn’t necessarily in my book anyway mean causing physical harm. Government would force us to take the vaccine if they could and they’ve certainly been throwing threats about.
Sympathies go out today to all the care home staff likely to lose their job in England. Sad thing is the residents who they have likely built a really close bond and relationship with couldn’t give a damn if they’re vaccinated or not. Those that pushed through and worked with a lack of or complete absence of PPE during the initial critical waves.
‘A key thing people seem to be forgetting is that the vaccine does not protect you from contracting the virus - it protects you from becoming seriously ill from the virus.’
Anyway, enjoy your boosters when they are eligible for all whilst the cycle continues.
Post Edited (Thu 11 Nov 07:42)
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 11 Nov 09:33
Even more key is this fact about the vaccine as stated by Christopher Byron Brooke of Illinois University; "They absolutely do reduce transmission. Vaccinated people do transmit the virus in some cases, but the data is super crystal-clear that the risk of transmission for a vaccinated individual is much, much lower than for an unvaccinated individual.”
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: EastEndBoy
Date: Thu 11 Nov 12:44
Quote:
Rastapari, Wed 10 Nov 19:46
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Wed 10 Nov 16:41
Looks like Germany is teetering on the brink of a fourth wave worst than the rest combined.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59234443
So how can this be with such high vaccine take up?
Deep down I think you know something stinks but you're kind of all in at this point.
Doesn't exactly scream " get the vaccine quick it's working" does it?
You didn't read the story did you?
...ken?
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Thu 11 Nov 13:46
Coercion: the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats
I have yet to hear anything that would lead me to believe that the current situation is coercive rather than incentivised. You provide a definition which backs up mine but then go off on a tangent about nurses?
Wotsit, You have made what appears a very important distinction. But I’m afraid it fails.
‘Those targeted by the holocaust did not make a conscious decision to be (for example) Jewish or Roma. They just were. For this reason it is, I would argue, unreasonable to make a direct comparison between those who choose not to be vaccinated and those who were targeted by Nazi propaganda and, later, death camps.’
The Nazis killed 6 million Jews and 26 million USSR citizens. Let that number sink in for just one moment. 26 million. Five times more than the entire population of Scotland. Almost half of the UK population at the time. They just liked killing people who were different! Or people who would not bend the knee to fascism.
Do you really think the Nazis only killed Jews? The whole point of fascism is to exterminate the weak or opponents until there are no victims worth killing! It’s the history of Homo Sapiens in fast forward mode; lets slow it down best we can. It’s the best we will manage.
You`re a smart guy Sammer so you probably already worked out my first point for yourself, given the bolded parts, so I`ll not insult your intelligence by spelling it out.
My second point is that none of that refuted my core point around consent since Soviet citizens didn`t consent to their perceived slavic heritage either.
Post Edited (Thu 11 Nov 13:46)
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Thu 11 Nov 14:04
Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 10 Nov 17:27
A key thing people seem to be forgetting is that the vaccine does not protect you from contracting the virus - it protects you from becoming seriously ill from the virus.
A few weeks ago, nine lads went to a restaurant in town. Within five days, eight of us had tested positive.
The only one to escape was the guy who had received a booster, three weeks before.
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 11 Nov 15:32
I can see where the coercion angle comes from. Only allowing vaccinated people in is effectively saying "Get the vaccine or else".
However, it shouldn't be considered coercion as, as others have highlighted, there are reasons for the approach.
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Thu 11 Nov 15:43
"Or else" makes it sound sinister.
You could say, get a passport or else
Or more realistically you could say, get a passport or else...you'll have to holiday within the UK as you will not be permitted to travel abroad
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 11 Nov 17:31
That's what I mean. It can be interpreted as coercion but there's a reason for it so really it's just stating a fact.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Thu 11 Nov 20:12
Bit of a quandary for the government right now eh...simultaneously trying to convince the unvaccinated the vaccines work whilst having to convince thd vaccinated they don't so they go get their boosters 🤣
Science eh...just as well you're allowed to question it..oh wait...we're not anymore.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: dd23
Date: Thu 11 Nov 22:20
Bullshit. They’re saying the vaccine is effective for 6 months then you need a booster to maintain its efficiency. It’s not hard to understand unless you don’t want to.
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Topic Originator: EastEndBoy
Date: Thu 11 Nov 22:29
Quote:
Rastapari, Thu 11 Nov 20:12
Bit of a quandary for the government right now eh...simultaneously trying to convince the unvaccinated the vaccines work whilst having to convince thd vaccinated they don't so they go get their boosters 🤣
Science eh...just as well you're allowed to question it..oh wait...we're not anymore.
Yeah, that's not what's happening.
I feel like you know that though.
...ken?
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Fri 12 Nov 07:59
Quote:
dd23, Thu 11 Nov 22:20
Bullshit. They’re saying the vaccine is effective for 6 months then you need a booster to maintain its efficiency. It’s not hard to understand unless you don’t want to.
Absolute toss, you've just changed your narrative to match theirs, there was no talk when the vaccines came out that it would be every six months, your just being weak there chum, by all means disagree but don't lie.
You were taken in with the "two weeks to flatten the curve" now you're claiming it was two jabs a year from the start.
Aye go on then🤣🤣
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Fri 12 Nov 08:03
Quote:
EastEndBoy, Thu 11 Nov 22:29
Quote:
Rastapari, Thu 11 Nov 20:12
Bit of a quandary for the government right now eh...simultaneously trying to convince the unvaccinated the vaccines work whilst having to convince thd vaccinated they don't so they go get their boosters 🤣
Science eh...just as well you're allowed to question it..oh wait...we're not anymore.
Yeah, that's not what's happening.
I feel like you know that though.
Really?
So you're saying hand on Stockholm syndrome riddled heart the idea was a six monthly jag from the start?
You're really going to claim that?
You are right though, they're not even claiming thd jag works anymore just telling you to line up for mix and match boosters and off you trot.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 12 Nov 08:13
"they`re not even claiming the jag works anymore"
No they`re not.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 12 Nov 09:35
The most telling line in that articles is "death rates among the unvaccinated are significantly higher".
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Fri 12 Nov 10:51
Would like to see a further breakdown of figures, eg overlying health conditions etc.
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Topic Originator: CAPar
Date: Fri 12 Nov 11:21
Quote:
Rastapari, Fri 12 Nov 07:59
Absolute toss, you've just changed your narrative to match theirs, there was no talk when the vaccines came out that it would be every six months, your just being weak there chum, by all means disagree but don't lie.
You were taken in with the "two weeks to flatten the curve" now you're claiming it was two jabs a year from the start.
Aye go on then🤣🤣
I don't recall anyone saying at the start of this that the vaccines were for life either. If it wasn't for all of us test monkeys taking the vaccine and finding out that they don't last forever, you wouldn't be able to sit there mocking us all.
This might come as a surprise to you but science is ever evolving, it doesn't remain fixed in one place forever.
I vaguely remember you trying to tell us no one would ever be able to go abroad on holiday again, and we'd all be back in lockdown by September but neither of those things have happened either.
Post Edited (Fri 12 Nov 12:41)
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Topic Originator: dd23
Date: Fri 12 Nov 12:28
I absolutely am not and never said any such thing. I think you’re mistaking me for someone else.
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Topic Originator: CAPar
Date: Fri 12 Nov 12:41
Quote:
dd23, Fri 12 Nov 12:28
I absolutely am not and never said any such thing. I think you’re mistaking me for someone else.
I'm not sure if you're referring to my last post but I wasn't referring to you in any of my comments. I've removed the part of the post where your prior post had been quoted.
Post Edited (Fri 12 Nov 12:43)
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Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Fri 12 Nov 14:00
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Fri 12 Nov 10:51
Would like to see a further breakdown of figures, eg overlying health conditions etc.
You can get this information by looking at the raw data, and if you want it for Scotland (as opposed to England) you can get it from a report published last week by Public Health Scotland, showing similar results: https://publichealthscotland.scot/media/9994/21-11-03-covid19-publication_report.pdf
Or you can just accept the analysis of those who have actually studied the data, as quoted in your own link:
"Death rates among the unvaccinated are significantly higher.
For people aged over 80, the unvaccinated have a death rate of 125.4 per 100,000 compared to the vaccinated 54.9 per 100,000 in the past four weeks.
For 70-79 the gap is even wider, with the unvaccinated death rate at 103.8 per 100,000 compared to 16.2 for the vaccinated."
Despite what is sometimes claimed, there is no attempt to conceal information, as the more data that is in the public domain the greater the evidence that vaccination saves lives. Unfortunately not everyone is convinced by facts.
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Post Edited (Fri 12 Nov 14:01)
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Topic Originator: dd23
Date: Fri 12 Nov 14:09
Quote:
CAPar, Fri 12 Nov 12:41
Quote:
dd23, Fri 12 Nov 12:28
I absolutely am not and never said any such thing. I think you’re mistaking me for someone else.
I'm not sure if you're referring to my last post but I wasn't referring to you in any of my comments. I've removed the part of the post where your prior post had been quoted.
Post Edited (Fri 12 Nov 12:43)
No not you CApar, Rastapari.
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Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Fri 12 Nov 14:47
Quote:
Rastapari, Fri 12 Nov 07:59
Absolute toss, you've just changed your narrative to match theirs, there was no talk when the vaccines came out that it would be every six months, your just being weak there chum, by all means disagree but don't lie.
You were taken in with the "two weeks to flatten the curve" now you're claiming it was two jabs a year from the start.
Aye go on then🤣🤣
I'm afraid you're mistaken. It was recognised from near the start within the epidemiological community that immunity induced by infection or vaccine was likely to wane over time, the only question was by how much - a question that with the passage of time and more data is now being answered, although still not conclusively.
To be fair, there was a lot of wishful thinking by politicians and the media that there would be a quick return to normality once most people were vaccinated. However, this didn't factor in the more aggressive Delta variant and the refusal of so many younger people to be vaccinated, thus providing a reservoir of infection that is now also affecting the vaccinated older people whose immunity is waning.
The booster jab deals for now with the decline in immunity, and over time it's reasonable to expect that improved vaccines will have greater and/or longer-lasting efficacy. The big problem will be in persuading the unvaccinated to take these vaccines - particularly younger people for whom the risk of death from Covid infection is very low and who consider themselves invincible anyway!
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Post Edited (Fri 12 Nov 14:48)
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Fri 12 Nov 19:59
Pages 43 and 47 of the Scottish report certainly focuses the mind!
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 12 Nov 20:39
Loads of data and analysis published by PHS. Key thing is hospitalisation levels remain fairly low despite rises in infection. That's why they want people vaccinated.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Sat 13 Nov 00:10
Apologies to Wotsit for my very poorly written response to a point he made earlier in the week in which I managed to break Godwin’s Law a few times. And veer off topic as well.
However I will assert once more the serious implications that I believe arise from the Austrian policy. You cannot Lockdown or Lock up people on suspicion without doing a very great social harm. The balance, or maybe trust, between government and individual is shifted alarmingly, so that every citizen now has to prove his or her innocence. Or in this case, evidence of being vaccinated- which is no guarantee of good health as has been explained. It seems to be the compliance that matters, rather than the effect of vaccination.
I was ever suspicious of these buzzwords like ‘accountability’ or ‘transparency’ since the politicians mouthing them never seemed to be answerable to anything much. If Austria, and my goodness this is a country which had ex-Nazi Kurt Waldheim as President as late as the 1990s, is leading the way on how to deal with Covid then a resistance movement will follow inevitably against what is effectively compulsory vaccination.
sammer
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Topic Originator: Grant
Date: Sat 13 Nov 06:46
Quote:
Rastapari, Fri 12 Nov 07:59
Quote:
dd23, Thu 11 Nov 22:20
Bullshit. They’re saying the vaccine is effective for 6 months then you need a booster to maintain its efficiency. It’s not hard to understand unless you don’t want to.
Absolute toss, you've just changed your narrative to match theirs, there was no talk when the vaccines came out that it would be every six months, your just being weak there chum, by all means disagree but don't lie.
You were taken in with the "two weeks to flatten the curve" now you're claiming it was two jabs a year from the start.
Aye go on then🤣🤣
There was 100% talks and fairly open discussion that there would need to be boosters. I was aware of it when I got my vaccine.
Even logically, people get the flu shot every year don't they?
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sat 13 Nov 10:24
My son in law is going to a works night out in a Dunfermline pub mid December and they have asked for the Covid Passport for all attendees.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Sun 14 Nov 07:09
So the slogan "get thr vaccine, stop the spread" was never used?
OK then, you've gone full Stockholm.
That worked out well, the vaccinated are more dangerous than us, cuttin about with no restrictions spreading and catching...I on the other hand still at one unvaccinated person who had to go to London to catch it.
I must be a walking miracle then eh, no vaccine, no mask, no distancing from friends and family, barely seen the thing...this most virulent virus, this super killer.
OK humour me...extol the virtues of me getting the jab, the positives, only please don't mention catching and spreading because I can't seem to catch it and the pandemic I'd allegedly worse since vaccination , so given the majority are vaccinated, you don't forget to blame the minority, you will of course because you're told to, but if you have to go down that route, come on, justify it....come at me.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
Post Edited (Sun 14 Nov 07:32)
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sun 14 Nov 08:41
What's your solution then Rasta? Folk staying at home getting paid while doing no work for the rest of their lives?
Do you disagree that there have been two main stages?
The first where folk stayed at home, there was a lot of virus around and the rate of hospital admission and death was reactively high.
And a second where folk have got back to some semblance of normality, where they caught it they are ending up in hospital less and are thankfully dying less?
I wouldn't have known (pre vaccine) I actually had it without a test. None of my family or friends have thankfully been very ill at all with it. Doesn't give me the grounds to suggest it doesn't exist though, in my view. That would be rather ignorant and arrogant.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 14 Nov 09:59
A before and after vaccine roll out chart of hospital admissions and deaths is worth looking at.
Of course some people don't want the vaccine. That's fine and very few people care. If you're healthy and under 40 you'll likely be fine.
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Sun 14 Nov 10:04
“OK humour me...extol the virtues of me getting the jab, the positives, only please”
I think the absolute biggest positive for everyone would be that you would maybe stop drivelling on and on and on
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Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Sun 14 Nov 10:54
Quote:
Rastapari, Sun 14 Nov 07:09
I must be a walking miracle then eh, no vaccine, no mask, no distancing from friends and family, barely seen the thing...this most virulent virus, this super killer.
OK humour me...extol the virtues of me getting the jab, the positives, only please don't mention catching and spreading because I can't seem to catch it.
You are indeed fortunate if you know of only one person who has caught Covid. Personally I know of many, two of whom have died (one vaccinated but very elderly, one unvaccinated middle-aged and healthy) and several of whom have had long-term illness. I also have a family member who has worked in a Covid ICU for 18 months, dealing with the dying and their relatives.
But public policy cannot sensibly be decided on anecdotal evidence either way, data and statistics are needed. This BBC article on recent research has graphs showing the impact of vaccines on hospitalizations and deaths:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59260294
So by all means live your life without precautions if you want to - if you are young and fit you will probably be fine, even if you catch Covid. But please stop peddling the nonsensical ideas that Covid is not a serious threat to the lives of many, or that vaccination does not save lives.
_________________
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Topic Originator: brian
Date: Mon 15 Nov 00:30
Well said Stanza.
I`m not wanting to be brainwashed by someone who thinks vaccinations are not relevant.
I`ve had two jags, then got covid. I can be very thankful that I had the jags previously.
Had my booster Saturday, bring it on.
____________________
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 15 Nov 06:07
Can those who want to put across their own point of view not do so respectfully, without resorting to insulting, condescending or snide remarks? I find it so frustrating and adopting such a stance actually detracts from what may be a perfectly valid standpoint.
Case in point Rasta and Brian, who kissed and made up recently, after a long running feud. I was especially pleased as I played a very small part in it. Sadly, it`s likely to kick off again with Rasta using phrases like "I must be a walking miracle" which appears heavily sarcastic to me and Brian replying in kind with "I`m not wanting to be brainwashed"
Come on guys, you`re grown men. Take a leaf out of Stanza`s book. The season of goodwill to all men (and women) is fast approaching. 🙂
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Mon 15 Nov 09:50
Jake. Pregnant women. Not people. Cmon eh?
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Mon 15 Nov 13:54
Quote:
GG Riva, Mon 15 Nov 06:07
Can those who want to put across their own point of view not do so respectfully, without resorting to insulting, condescending or snide remarks? I find it so frustrating and adopting such a stance actually detracts from what may be a perfectly valid standpoint.
Case in point Rasta and Brian, who kissed and made up recently, after a long running feud. I was especially pleased as I played a very small part in it. Sadly, it`s likely to kick off again with Rasta using phrases like "I must be a walking miracle" which appears heavily sarcastic to me and Brian replying in kind with "I`m not wanting to be brainwashed"
Come on guys, you`re grown men. Take a leaf out of Stanza`s book. The season of goodwill to all men (and women) is fast approaching. 🙂
I'm not attempting to "brainwash" anyone...I'm pointing out the valid point I cannot even find a case of covid in my friends and family....a virus so deadly and virulent I cannot seem to catch it despite being unvaccinated.
Your saying it yourselves, getting vaccinated THEN catching covid....doesn't exactly promote the effectiveness if the jabs does it.
I haven't seen one person unvaccinated catch the blooming thing, vaccinated...see them catching it all the time....daily basis.
That's facts as my life unfolds, no "brainwashing" no coercion, no name calling, no ire...seems to trigger folks though, that's on them if they cannot look at both sides.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 15 Nov 14:17
Quote:
Rastapari, Mon 15 Nov 13:54
I'm not attempting to "brainwash" anyone...I'm pointing out the valid point I cannot even find a case of covid in my friends and family....a virus so deadly and virulent I cannot seem to catch it despite being unvaccinated.
Your saying it yourselves, getting vaccinated THEN catching covid....doesn't exactly promote the effectiveness if the jabs does it.
I haven't seen one person unvaccinated catch the blooming thing, vaccinated...see them catching it all the time....daily basis.
That's facts as my life unfolds, no "brainwashing" no coercion, no name calling, no ire...seems to trigger folks though, that's on them if they cannot look at both sides.
Rasta, I think you'll find I didn't accuse you of brainwashing anyone, so I'm surprised you quoted my previous post. I've not included it again as there's a word limit on posts. I did suggest you try and make your points without resorting to emotive or provocative language. You'll have noticed that some posters are more easily offended than others. It's a maturity thing. 🙂
In your post above you get all defensive and start throwing out evidence to support your stance, e.g. you haven't seen one unvaccinated person catching Covid but vaccinated people are catching it all the time...... Hmm, so are you saying the vaccine makes you more susceptible to Covid? If you are, you won't find a shortage of people who will dispute your assertion.
The evidence you put forward isn't really evidence at all, quite frankly. It's flawed because you're talking from the narrow base of your own experience. Imagine I posted that I have lots of friends and relatives who smoke but not one of them has lung cancer, but I've heard of lots of smokers who have never smoked but died of it at a relatively young age.
What would you make of that?
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Mon 15 Nov 14:37
And yet here we are with allegedly the majority of the population vaccinated but being threatened with lockdown over Christmas because it's worse than last year...so what is it?
If the narrative coming from the government is true what does it say about the vaccines?
What positive spin does it put on having more and more jabs?
Well over 100 thousand nurses going to be sacked.. do we hear their concerns as health care professionals? No we don't do we, why not, seems a big issue?
Apparently there's more sympathy for coercion and bullying than there is for a balanced picture.
I said it before, this will never end, you're locked into the experiment to keep your utterly useless vaccine passports up to date.
And what when passport protected event causes a spike...Will the unvaccinated still get the blame?
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
Post Edited (Mon 15 Nov 14:57)
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Topic Originator: soothsayer
Date: Mon 15 Nov 15:07
Rasta:
“I only know one person who has caught covid”
“I see all these vaccinated folk catching it all the time”
Make your mind up! You absolute slaverer.
People have presented you with data that clearly shows how the vaccination has helped us all. Why were hospital admissions so high before the vaccination rollout and now post vaccination rollout they’ve been drastically reduced? Answer that one please.
You’re a free thinker allegedly so do some actual thinking.
People like you are dangerous. But you have no self-awareness. Sadly.
Don’t get the vaccination, that’s fine. It’s a personal choice. But please, and I implore you to do so, cut out the conspiracy, scaremongering nonsense.
Can I ask sincerely, are you back on the booze and weed?
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Mon 15 Nov 15:13
Quote:
soothsayer, Mon 15 Nov 15:07
Rasta:
“I only know one person who has caught covid”
“I see all these vaccinated folk catching it all the time”
Make your mind up! You absolute slaverer.
People have presented you with data that clearly shows how the vaccination has helped us all. Why were hospital admissions so high before the vaccination rollout and now post vaccination rollout they’ve been drastically reduced? Answer that one please.
You’re a free thinker allegedly so do some actual thinking.
People like you are dangerous. But you have no self-awareness. Sadly.
Don’t get the vaccination, that’s fine. It’s a personal choice. But please, and I implore you to do so, cut out the conspiracy, scaremongering nonsense.
Can I ask sincerely, are you back on the booze and weed?
Pi55 off son, no need for that and no I'm not.
What conspirarational about my questions?
OK then doctor why are things only getting worse?
Try answering without insults.
Edit : I did only no one person to have got covid, she got it in London pre vaccination, she got vaccination and has had it again twice....now though, loads of folk...all vaccinated.
But yeah you just chuck out snide remarks about weed and bevvy because you can't answer the ver simple questions I put to you.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
Post Edited (Mon 15 Nov 15:28)
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Mon 15 Nov 15:34
And can you guess why it will never end, Rasta? Why it has become endemic?
It is because you and your cohorts refused to accept the scientific solution and instead opted to believe the sage advice of Karen and Sharon and Freedomguy on Facebook. You actively delayed the vaccination process and unconsciously let Big Pharma win the jackpot.
Of course, you didn`t realise it, but all along you were the lab rat. You were in the control group.
I have given up arguing the point with you Rasta. You have nothing new to say and each time you dismiss the virus you hurt those who lost close family relatives to it.
You display a complete lack of sensitivity to the pain of others, yet when someone quite validly questions whether you have dropped off the straight and narrow, you scream foul from the rooftops.
You recently showed your good side and we all applauded. It is such a shame that you are undoing all that positivity by reverting to this poisonous lunacy.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 15 Nov 15:39
I see my plea for posters to make their points in a civil manner has fallen on deaf ears. ☹
Was it too much to ask for?
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Mon 15 Nov 16:08
Quote:
GG Riva, Mon 15 Nov 15:39
I see my plea for posters to make their points in a civil manner has fallen on deaf ears. ☹
Was it too much to ask for?
Ask Soothsayer.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Mon 15 Nov 16:10
Ozpar if the guy next to you was incontinent, would you fon nappies just in case?
I'm not being experimented on for anyone, you made that choice, you don't get to blame me for the choices you made that didn't work.
Weigh in as well that two pretty fit guys I know, one a long time friend, dropped dead of massive heart attacks within days of their second jabs, so yeah that gave me reason to pause.
I'll leave you to it but hey, when they keep telling you it's getting worse and more and more boosters are needed to keep your utterly useless vaccine passport up to date, just you leave my name out of it.
I'll be sitting in the told you so corner, this won't end, it's no longer even remotely about your health.
I just read Klaus Schwab, The Great Reset, you can buy it on Amazon, it literally spells out the plan for you, if course you won't read it but ypu should.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
Post Edited (Mon 15 Nov 16:33)
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Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh
Date: Mon 15 Nov 16:22
GGRiva - yes, it was a good attempt but it was indeed too much to ask for.
The vaccines work better than some people think, and not as well as others think.
The vaccines harm fewer people than some people think, but more than others think.
The risk of being hospitalised (or dying) due to Covid is higher than some people think, but not as high as others think.
There are very few facts out there.
One is that the vaccines reduce hospitalisation and death rates in the short term. Another is that the vaccines have killed some people.
The rest is anyone`s guess.
I think we are all just skirting around the main issue on this thread, and that is that I saw a documentary in 1994 about Arnold Schwarzenegger and he was pregnant in it. This is also a fact.
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Topic Originator: soothsayer
Date: Mon 15 Nov 16:57
Quote:
Rastapari, Mon 15 Nov 15:13
Quote:
soothsayer, Mon 15 Nov 15:07
Rasta:
“I only know one person who has caught covid”
“I see all these vaccinated folk catching it all the time”
Make your mind up! You absolute slaverer.
People have presented you with data that clearly shows how the vaccination has helped us all. Why were hospital admissions so high before the vaccination rollout and now post vaccination rollout they’ve been drastically reduced? Answer that one please.
You’re a free thinker allegedly so do some actual thinking.
People like you are dangerous. But you have no self-awareness. Sadly.
Don’t get the vaccination, that’s fine. It’s a personal choice. But please, and I implore you to do so, cut out the conspiracy, scaremongering nonsense.
Can I ask sincerely, are you back on the booze and weed?
Pi55 off son, no need for that and no I'm not.
What conspirarational about my questions?
OK then doctor why are things only getting worse?
Try answering without insults.
Edit : I did only no one person to have got covid, she got it in London pre vaccination, she got vaccination and has had it again twice....now though, loads of folk...all vaccinated.
But yeah you just chuck out snide remarks about weed and bevvy because you can't answer the ver simple questions I put to you.
I asked you sincerely because I’m happy to know that you’re still clean and sober. Your recent posts made me worried, that is all.
Conspiracy? Yeah you’re peddling nonsense about the virus not being as virulent and deadly as the press, government, and scientists would have us believe.
I’m sorry for calling you a slaverer but when you contradict yourself so heavily in one post then I feel that remark was justified. By all means, you can put me in my place and explain otherwise. You see vaccinated folk succumbing to covid all around you and at the same time you tell us you only know one person who has caught it. So please explain how that’s not a contradiction.
So I’ve done you the service of explaining myself, apologising and I’ve invited you to contradict what I’ve said.
Can you now do me the honour of answering this one question.
Pre vaccine rollout the death rate and hospital admissions were vastly higher than they are now, post vaccine rollout. So how do you explain that?
I’m genuinely interested in your point of view.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 15 Nov 18:15
Quote:
buffy, Mon 15 Nov 09:50
Jake. Pregnant women. Not people. Cmon eh?
Inclusive language. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. 😶
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 15 Nov 18:23
I must be rare in that I know plenty of people who got it. I think only one was a "down the pub" job. The rest were down to transfer through the family.
All got it in different ways. Two got it particularly badly. One of my healthier mates was close to being hospitalised. He's the type of guy who climbs up hills and goes mountain-biking.
So I go with the data. Of course it could be getting made up but, as someone who knows a fair few analysts, I don't think it is. The data is certainly going to be more reliable than the gutter press or someone on social media.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Mon 15 Nov 18:41
Quote:
jake89, Mon 15 Nov 18:23
I must be rare in that I know plenty of people who got it. I think only one was a "down the pub" job. The rest were down to transfer through the family.
All got it in different ways. Two got it particularly badly. One of my healthier mates was close to being hospitalised. He's the type of guy who climbs up hills and goes mountain-biking.
So I go with the data. Of course it could be getting made up but, as someone who knows a fair few analysts, I don't think it is. The data is certainly going to be more reliable than the gutter press or someone on social media.
I go by data too, I don't read social media for anything other than what folks have for their dinner, so please, cut that out, yeah?
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Mon 15 Nov 18:44
Quote:
jake89, Mon 15 Nov 18:15
Quote:
buffy, Mon 15 Nov 09:50
Jake. Pregnant women. Not people. Cmon eh?
Inclusive language. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. 😶
ONLY women can get pregnant.
Don’t anyone @ me with this inclusive language *****. IDGAF
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Mon 15 Nov 18:45
Soothsayer....the government are spouting on a daily basis that things are getting worse.
There's your answer.
Another lockdown coming.
You going to try and answer any of my quote simple questions?
I'll back out now, have at it for the rest of your lives.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 15 Nov 19:00
Data suggests vaccination works, Rasta.
Not seeking to upset anyone, Buffy. 🙂
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 15 Nov 19:29
Back on topic, all unvaccinated people in Austria are locked down at least until 25th November. They are only allowed to leave their homes for essential shopping such as food and medicines. Anyone flouting these restrictions is liable to be fined up to €1450 and the owner of any bar, restaurant etc. who allows anyone in without checking that they have a Green Pass is liable to be fined in excess of €4500. The objective is to get the pandemic under control before the Christmas festivities. I can't say I'm altogether comfortable with how the Austrian Government is tackling this.
In Italy there are almost daily organised protests involving thousands of people who are opposed to having the Covid vaccine. Some protesters are now threatening to bomb the Italian Parliament buildings and lynch those politicians they hold responsible.
It's all getting very ugly.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Mon 15 Nov 19:43
Middle child lateral flow positive today (did it twice), complained of minor aches.
Our youngest who’s five, he’s had a hacking cough and cold symptoms, tested negative…odds are it’s just a cold which is rife at the moment.
Wife, the eldest and I all negative so I suppose this is a good test to see how transmittable this disease is across a family of the unvaccinated living under the same roof.
Will keep you all posted.
Naturally, being kids, they are just delighted to be off school and more time on TickTock, whatever the hell that is.
Post Edited (Mon 15 Nov 19:44)
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Topic Originator: soothsayer
Date: Mon 15 Nov 21:30
Quote:
Rastapari, Mon 15 Nov 18:45
Soothsayer....the government are spouting on a daily basis that things are getting worse.
There's your answer.
Another lockdown coming.
You going to try and answer any of my quote simple questions?
I'll back out now, have at it for the rest of your lives.
Absolutely pathetic response. You’re a coward. You’ve answered nothing. You never do so that’s true to form.
The data proves you are wrong but keep peddling your pihs if it makes you feel like a special boy.
Goodnight, son.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 15 Nov 22:10
Hope the wee one is okay, Berry.
Definitely colds going round. Both mine have been off. Both had LFTs and PCRs (all negative). The buggers have given it to me now too!
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Topic Originator: JTH123
Date: Mon 15 Nov 22:22
I hope family is ok Berry.
It's just coming up to a year since my wife caught it and she was quite ill for a few days at which point me and 2 of my 3 kids tested positive albeit with minimal symptoms. Ironically my oldest son never tested positive despite him being the one with various other ailments. The doctor said at the time that he had most likely had it earlier than the rest of us and was asymptomatic.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Mon 15 Nov 23:41
Berry I wouldn`t necessarily go with a positive lateral flow test being a definite. A friend of my sons tested positive with a lateral flow so then went and got a pcr test which came back negative. Makes me wonder what the point of the lateral flow tests are. I could understand if it gave someone a false negative but if they are able to give false positives then how are they detecting something that isn`t there? Regardless of what is making your children unwell I wish them a speedy recovery.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Mon 15 Nov 23:50
Quote:
sadindiefreak, Mon 15 Nov 19:05
Quote:
buffy, Mon 15 Nov 18:44
Quote:
jake89, Mon 15 Nov 18:15
Quote:
buffy, Mon 15 Nov 09:50
Jake. Pregnant women. Not people. Cmon eh?
Inclusive language. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. 😶
ONLY women can get pregnant.
Don’t anyone @ me with this inclusive language *****. IDGAF
Trans men can also get pregnant and give birth.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/20/the-dad-who-gave-birth-pregnant-trans-freddy-mcconnell
It's not really a man that has got pregnant there though, it's a woman
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Tue 16 Nov 00:29
Quote:
red-star-par, Mon 15 Nov 23:50
Quote:
sadindiefreak, Mon 15 Nov 19:05
Quote:
buffy, Mon 15 Nov 18:44
Quote:
jake89, Mon 15 Nov 18:15
Quote:
buffy, Mon 15 Nov 09:50
Jake. Pregnant women. Not people. Cmon eh?
Inclusive language. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. 😶
ONLY women can get pregnant.
Don’t anyone @ me with this inclusive language *****. IDGAF
Trans men can also get pregnant and give birth.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/20/the-dad-who-gave-birth-pregnant-trans-freddy-mcconnell
It's not really a man that has got pregnant there though, it's a woman
If they identify as male then yes it is a man.
There is also intersex people who have both sex organs at birth who can be assigned male at birth yet get pregnant.
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Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Tue 16 Nov 06:50
Cheers folks. Yeah TOWK, one of the reasons why we tried it twice, she’s off for a PCR this morning so will soon see I guess.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Tue 16 Nov 08:45
Quote:
soothsayer, Mon 15 Nov 21:30
Quote:
Rastapari, Mon 15 Nov 18:45
Soothsayer....the government are spouting on a daily basis that things are getting worse.
There's your answer.
Another lockdown coming.
You going to try and answer any of my quote simple questions?
I'll back out now, have at it for the rest of your lives.
Absolutely pathetic response. You’re a coward. You’ve answered nothing. You never do so that’s true to form.
The data proves you are wrong but keep peddling your pihs if it makes you feel like a special boy.
Goodnight, son.
Whilst you joke about me me being back on the bevvy and weed trying to be a smart er5e only to pathetically backtrack?
At least own your words...you know what's true to form? The cowardice of this place.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Tue 16 Nov 09:20
The Austrian response should set alarm bells ringing in the ears of any citizen. If being unvaccinated was equivalent to carrying a virus the Austrian government’s response would be reasonable, but that is not the case. An unvaccinated person, especially one who has caught Covid already, could well be healthier than a person who received vaccination but remains vulnerable. Yet one is put under virtual house arrest whilst the other walks freely in public. This is not so much about protecting public health; it’s more about punishing non compliance with government diktat.
As Rastapari has often pointed out, if vaccines were effective then the vaccinated would have precious little to fear: only the unvaccinated would be a risk to themselves. Yet on the sites I visit it appears to be those who have been vaccinated that are the most agitated. If they don’t have confidence in the effectiveness of the vaccine themselves, how on earth are they going to convince sceptics to take a jab?
This time last year we were told that herd immunity could be obtained by 60-70% vaccination, which is where Austria is right now. The goalposts have been moved: now we are hearing that 90% vaccination will be required although I suspect that number will rise if an Epsilon variant appears.
PS Having read recent posts I think we should respect everyone`s right to exercise caution whether that be by being vaccinated or not. Accusations of cowardice are unhelpful.
sammer
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Topic Originator: soothsayer
Date: Tue 16 Nov 09:27
Quote:
Rastapari, Tue 16 Nov 08:45
Quote:
soothsayer, Mon 15 Nov 21:30
Quote:
Rastapari, Mon 15 Nov 18:45
Soothsayer....the government are spouting on a daily basis that things are getting worse.
There's your answer.
Another lockdown coming.
You going to try and answer any of my quote simple questions?
I'll back out now, have at it for the rest of your lives.
Absolutely pathetic response. You’re a coward. You’ve answered nothing. You never do so that’s true to form.
The data proves you are wrong but keep peddling your pihs if it makes you feel like a special boy.
Goodnight, son.
Whilst you joke about me me being back on the bevvy and weed trying to be a smart er5e only to pathetically backtrack?
At least own your words...you know what's true to form? The cowardice of this place.
I clearly stated that I’m happy that you’re clean and sober. I explained that I asked sincerely because I was worried. So where are you seeing the joke?
Pathetically backtrack? Behave man.
You accuse me of not answering questions. Well I have. And it’s you who’s now dodging mine. And as I said that’s true to form. If you have no answer then it’s obvious why that is.
So I’ll answer it for you:
The reason why there are less hospital admissions and there are less deaths today is because the vaccine rollout has been a success. It’s literally doing what it’s supposed to do.
Happy to help 👍🏼
Hope you have a great day!
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Topic Originator: Gem 1977
Date: Tue 16 Nov 10:29
Quote:
Berry, Mon 15 Nov 19:43
Middle child lateral flow positive today (did it twice), complained of minor aches.
Our youngest who’s five, he’s had a hacking cough and cold symptoms, tested negative…odds are it’s just a cold which is rife at the moment.
Wife, the eldest and I all negative so I suppose this is a good test to see how transmittable this disease is across a family of the unvaccinated living under the same roof.
Will keep you all posted.
Naturally, being kids, they are just delighted to be off school and more time on TickTock, whatever the hell that is.
My son and I both tested positive with lateral flow and PCR tests last week. Wife tested negative with both 🤷♂️
Here's to the first of the day, fellas! To old D.H. Lawrence.
Neh! Neh! Neh! Fuh! Fuh! Fuh! Indians
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 16 Nov 14:50
The concern isn't people getting the sniffles. The concern is people getting seriously ill and taking up limited NHS resources.
Banning unvaccinated is a step too far though. Will they also start imposing restrictions on people who lead unhealthy lives or take unnecessary risks?
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Topic Originator: Stanza
Date: Tue 16 Nov 18:17
Topic Originator: Rastapari like | nolike
Date: Mon 15 Nov 16:10
I just read Klaus Schwab, The Great Reset, you can buy it on Amazon, it literally spells out the plan for you, if course you won`t read it but ypu should."
Yes, I have read it, actually - it can be read free online if you Google it.
It was written in June 2020, just a few months after the start of the pandemic so before the advent of vaccination and before the Covid mutations such as Delta. Despite that, it`s a decent and level-headed read, with a lot of sensible analysis on the different ways that society, economics, politics, technology, business etc might develop post-pandemic.
NOWHERE that I saw was there any suggestion that Covid is anything other than a major disruptor and a serious threat to life (although with lower mortality than some previous pandemics.) One example in the closing summary:
"There is no denying that the COVID-19 virus has more often than not been a personal catastrophe for the millions infected by it, and for their families and communities."
NOR does it suggest or anywhere imply that there is some grand plan, just an analysis of the different routes (some worse than others) that human society might take at the different forks in the road. It concludes as follows:
"We are now at a crossroads. One path will take us to a better world: more inclusive, more equitable and more respectful of Mother Nature. The other will take us to a world that resembles the one we just left behind – but worse and constantly dogged by nasty surprises. We must therefore get it right. The looming challenges could be more consequential than we have until now chosen to imagine, but our capacity to reset could also be greater than we had previously dared to hope."
_________________
Support Dunfermline Athletic Disabled Supporters` Club (DADSC) when you shop online with one of 8000 firms: https://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/dadsc[
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Tue 16 Nov 19:31
Looks like the Republic of Ireland is heading towards a partial Lockdown as infections are at their second highest point for infections in a 14 day period, with only January being higher. They expect it to get worse too before they see the effects of further restrictions.
That's despite them having one of the highest percentage of population vaccinated in the world with 90% of people over the age of 12 having had 2 jabs
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Tue 16 Nov 21:12
Shudder to think what the hospitalisation rate and death toll would be if they hadn`t had such a high vaccination rate.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: soothsayer
Date: Tue 16 Nov 21:46
My girlfriend’s daughter has covid, she’s only 7 and she has mild symptoms but she’s okay. Her dad is anti-vaxx and he’s suffering, really suffering. My girlfriend is a nurse and she’s had her 3rd jab and she doesn’t have it. This is by no means proof of anything but it’s first hand experience that should be shared. I’m double vaxxed and clean as a whistle so far.
Wish me luck Rasta! 🙏🏼🤞🏼
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Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Tue 16 Nov 21:46
If 90% having had two jabs, hospitalisations rate should be low, why do the lockdown?
Can’t surely be that 10% alone that’s causing such an increase in infection?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 16 Nov 22:34
Quote:
Berry, Tue 16 Nov 21:46
If 90% having had two jabs, hospitalisations rate should be low, why do the lockdown?
Can’t surely be that 10% alone that’s causing such an increase in infection?
Because it's 68.5% not 90%?
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Tue 16 Nov 22:53
Quote:
jake89, Tue 16 Nov 22:34
Quote:
Berry, Tue 16 Nov 21:46
If 90% having had two jabs, hospitalisations rate should be low, why do the lockdown?
Can’t surely be that 10% alone that’s causing such an increase in infection?
Because it's 68.5% not 90%?
It is 90% of people aged 12 and over according to the BBC.
BBC News - Covid-19: Pubs curfew and working at home return in Ireland
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59305710
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 16 Nov 23:15
90% of over 12s have had their first dose in the UK. That story relates to ROI.
Post Edited (Tue 16 Nov 23:17)
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Wed 17 Nov 08:17
Quote:
Berry, Tue 16 Nov 21:46
If 90% having had two jabs, hospitalisations rate should be low, why do the lockdown?
Can’t surely be that 10% alone that’s causing such an increase in infection?
I have been in an Irish hospital once.
It is not the same as the UK health service. Different worlds when you are outside the confines of Dublin. I expect the pressure on their system has a different breaking point to the UK system.
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Wed 17 Nov 08:35
Yeah was at a hospital (family member) in Sligo last month and it seemed like it was bursting at the seams
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 17 Nov 09:40
Quote:
aaaaaaaaaargh, Mon 15 Nov 16:22
The vaccines work better than some people think, and not as well as others think.
The vaccines harm fewer people than some people think, but more than others think.
The risk of being hospitalised (or dying) due to Covid is higher than some people think, but not as high as others think.
There are very few facts out there.
One is that the vaccines reduce hospitalisation and death rates in the short term. Another is that the vaccines have killed some people.
The rest is anyone`s guess.Quote:
Pretty much spot on, imo.
The vaccines stats do suggest they offer some protection but it's not guaranteed and certainly not for as long as medics and scientists had hoped. I saw a post from Raymie where he said 9 doubly vaccinated guys went out for a meal and 8 of them caught Covid, the exception being a hospital worker who'd had his booster a few weeks earlier. It's worth noting that none of the others were due their booster yet, so the 6 months protection estimate appears to be over optimistic.
We often choose time scales which have no scientific reason, but merely fit in with our ways of measuring time. e,g. Taking a daily pill or having a vaccine once a year.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Wed 17 Nov 12:00
Just returned from 5 days in eastern europe. Vaccine status checks pretty much everywhere we went, bars/shops/restaurants. Masks worn everywhere by everyone. Only places we were never asked to prove vaccine status were Gatwick and Edinburgh airports.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 17 Nov 13:57
Quote:
GG Riva, Wed 17 Nov 09:40
Quote:
aaaaaaaaaargh, Mon 15 Nov 16:22
The vaccines work better than some people think, and not as well as others think.
The vaccines harm fewer people than some people think, but more than others think.
The risk of being hospitalised (or dying) due to Covid is higher than some people think, but not as high as others think.
There are very few facts out there.
One is that the vaccines reduce hospitalisation and death rates in the short term. Another is that the vaccines have killed some people.
The rest is anyone`s guess.Quote:
Pretty much spot on, imo.
The vaccines stats do suggest they offer some protection but it's not guaranteed and certainly not for as long as medics and scientists had hoped. I saw a post from Raymie where he said 9 doubly vaccinated guys went out for a meal and 8 of them caught Covid, the exception being a hospital worker who'd had his booster a few weeks earlier. It's worth noting that none of the others were due their booster yet, so the 6 months protection estimate appears to be over optimistic.
We often choose time scales which have no scientific reason, but merely fit in with our ways of measuring time. e,g. Taking a daily pill or having a vaccine once a year.
Surely prescription times are based on the amount of a drug the body can accept? So you take 200mg of Ibuprofen every 6 hours rather than taking a daily tablet containing 800mg?
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Wed 17 Nov 14:35
Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Wed 17 Nov 12:00
Just returned from 5 days in eastern europe. Vaccine status checks pretty much everywhere we went, bars/shops/restaurants. Masks worn everywhere by everyone. Only places we were never asked to prove vaccine status were Gatwick and Edinburgh airports.
Why doesn`t that surprise me?
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Wed 17 Nov 15:06
The vaccine status is linked to your passport when you fill in locator form.
That's what I was told when returning from Tenerife 4 weeks ago.
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Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh
Date: Wed 17 Nov 15:19
Jake - I think GG Riva`s point is that we simplify things for convenience rather than for pure scientific reasons.
To get the best results it might be better to take a pill once every 20 hours, or once every 27 hours, but simplifying it to once per day makes it easier for people to be compliant.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 17 Nov 16:09
Quote:
aaaaaaaaaargh, Wed 17 Nov 15:19
Jake - I think GG Riva`s point is that we simplify things for convenience rather than for pure scientific reasons.
To get the best results it might be better to take a pill once every 20 hours, or once every 27 hours, but simplifying it to once per day makes it easier for people to be compliant.
That's exactly what I meant, mate. Thanks for explaing it so well. 🙂
Not your average Sunday League player.
Post Edited (Wed 17 Nov 16:09)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 17 Nov 17:29
Ah, get you now.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Wed 17 Nov 18:23
Heard on Italian TV that some folk who don't want to be vaccinated have been buying a fake "Green Pass" online. Unbelievable.
One guy who was traced admitted that he made €20,000 in a single day. They didn't say how many he'd sold or how much he was charging per pass.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Thu 18 Nov 10:14
It’s coming…
Daughter’s rugby match yesterday - Napier v Stirling uni - postponed as 5 Stirling girls tested positive.
No mention of severity, but clear that the younger generation are catching/spreading it now.
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Topic Originator: Jeffery
Date: Thu 18 Nov 13:13
My son has just been confirmed positive in the last few days. Everyone else in the household is fine.
His class had 11 off at one point last week, 8 confirmed positive.
The school don't notify you of any of this anymore, it's all figured out by what the kids say and parents chatter.
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Thu 18 Nov 14:57
Oooooffftt better get off the bottom of the league sharpish. I am not sure I can do another lockdown. I have been working from home for almost 2 years when I used to travel extensively. Talking to my colleagues on teams all the time is soul destroying. No fun whatsoever. Just work.
How many people on this forum would stick to lockdown rules if there was a next time. I would struggle.
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Topic Originator: EastEndBoy
Date: Thu 18 Nov 14:59
Quote:
Jeffery, Thu 18 Nov 13:13
My son has just been confirmed positive in the last few days. Everyone else in the household is fine.
His class had 11 off at one point last week, 8 confirmed positive.
The school don't notify you of any of this anymore, it's all figured out by what the kids say and parents chatter.
Thats not true. The school emailed a letter today to inform us there had been a positive case in my sons class.
...ken?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 18 Nov 18:06
We used to get emails but not anymore. Various kids off due to having COVID or a parent/carer having it. Only we hear is on the WhatsApp.
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Topic Originator: twin par
Date: Thu 18 Nov 23:29
Christ, if it was left to some nutters, we would still have the plague, and tb,and smallpox. My mother had whooping caugh, and it nearly killed her.Lack of research, give me a break.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Fri 19 Nov 00:02
The bubonic plague still is around unfortunately with the most recent cases being in Zanzibar. The worrying news is that the more recent outbreaks suggest that the form of the bubonic plague is resistant to present day antibiotics. Not a cheerful thought.
sammer
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Fri 19 Nov 14:16
Austria are taking no prisoners now. They are bringing in a legal ruling that you MUST be vaccinated. Not sure how that will be enforced. Soldiers holding people down to inject them.
I guess the next step will be concentration camp for those not willing to have the jab.
I wonder how many other nations will follow suit.
Surprisingly the BBC article just has one line about it, almost as if its not the main story
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Topic Originator: parsfan
Date: Fri 19 Nov 14:58
Quote:
red-star-par, Fri 19 Nov 14:16
Austria are taking no prisoners now. They are bringing in a legal ruling that you MUST be vaccinated. Not sure how that will be enforced. Soldiers holding people down to inject them.
I guess the next step will be concentration camp for those not willing to have the jab.
So, not taking prisoners now is a bad thing but hypothetically taking prisoners in the future will also be a bad thing? 🤔
More seriously, much as I'm generally on the pro-vax side of the argument I don't agree with this at all. Austrians of all people, learning from history and all that.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Fri 19 Nov 16:14
Quote:
red-star-par, Fri 19 Nov 14:16
Austria are taking no prisoners now. They are bringing in a legal ruling that you MUST be vaccinated. Not sure how that will be enforced. Soldiers holding people down to inject them.
I guess the next step will be concentration camp for those not willing to have the jab.
I wonder how many other nations will follow suit.
Surprisingly the BBC article just has one line about it, almost as if its not the main story
I did say it was coming, most on here will welcome it though, to be free 🤣
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: EastEndBoy
Date: Fri 19 Nov 16:22
Quote:
red-star-par, Fri 19 Nov 14:16
Austria are taking no prisoners now. They are bringing in a legal ruling that you MUST be vaccinated. Not sure how that will be enforced. Soldiers holding people down to inject them.
I guess the next step will be concentration camp for those not willing to have the jab.
I wonder how many other nations will follow suit.
Surprisingly the BBC article just has one line about it, almost as if its not the main story
Pretty grim stuff. Let's hope these measures stay confined to Austria.
...ken?
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Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Fri 19 Nov 17:11
This is getting ridiculous now and surely there will come a point where people will acknowledge that this is just wrong. Governments will have been considering this, Austria just the first to move so other countries will be watching with significant interest.
You look at Gibraltar, most vaccinated place in the world and they’re still putting limits/restrictions in place to try and curb infections of covid which are still appearing.
I just feel sad about the whole thing and Austria of all places.
Post Edited (Fri 19 Nov 17:13)
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 19 Nov 17:26
I believe in Austria it`s lockdown for 20 days, partly because of their pathetically low vaccination rate, and then after December 10th it only applies to those who are unvaccinated or those who haven`t recently been infected. I suspect going forward that is the sort of restrictions that will be enforced across Europe. I think the Scottish government is going to extend its covid passport scheme to cover more venues and events.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Fri 19 Nov 18:14
Germany close to lockdown too
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Fri 19 Nov 19:39
Once a people accept the necessity of war it inevitable that the population will be asked to volunteer to win that war. When the anticipated victory fails to arrive then conscription becomes necessary. Anyone resisting at that point is failing to do their bit, or might even be an enemy of the people. The citizens, in frustration, will then offer even more powers to the government in the hope that victory is just around the corner.
The so-called War on Covid was never going to bring about a clear victory. At present our understanding of the virus, its transmission and effective treatment are not at a level where it can be eradicated even if that was being vaguely promised by politicians when the vaccine programme began. This Austrian development has all the hallmarks of The War on Drugs and The War on Terror: it has the clear potential to do more social and political harm than the genuine health threat it sets out to deal with.
sammer
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Fri 19 Nov 19:59
Post of the week for me ^^^^^
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Fri 19 Nov 21:09
Quote:
sammer, Fri 19 Nov 19:39
Once a people accept the necessity of war it inevitable that the population will be asked to volunteer to win that war. When the anticipated victory fails to arrive then conscription becomes necessary. Anyone resisting at that point is failing to do their bit, or might even be an enemy of the people. The citizens, in frustration, will then offer even more powers to the government in the hope that victory is just around the corner.
The so-called War on Covid was never going to bring about a clear victory. At present our understanding of the virus, its transmission and effective treatment are not at a level where it can be eradicated even if that was being vaguely promised by politicians when the vaccine programme began. This Austrian development has all the hallmarks of The War on Drugs and The War on Terror: it has the clear potential to do more social and political harm than the genuine health threat it sets out to deal with.
It's about time to accept that's by design, like it was the last time.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh
Date: Fri 19 Nov 21:13
I just can`t get my head around the bad science everywhere.
The official line is that the high case rate in Austria is due to low vaccination levels, but it is far, far more complex than that. One of the main factors is simply that Austria escaped the worst of the virus in 2020 and is now playing catch-up. There are other places with high vaccination rates that have infection rates that are similar to Austria`s.
Vaccination will lower the death rate from the virus, but virtually all of that benefit will come from vaccinating the over-60s. Austria could save 60 million euros by not bothering to vaccinate people under 60, then they could give a 1000 euro bonus to every single nurse in the country. Instead they are going to give the cash to Pfizer`s shareholders and it will probably just spread the cases out over time, but not prevent any.
It`s also interesting to see that they are going to fine people who don`t get the vaccine, then possibly jail people who don`t pay the fine. I suppose that means the vaccine will only be mandatory for poor people.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 19 Nov 22:03
Of course there is bad science everywhere. What do you think most refusers are basing their decision not to be vaccinated on? It certainly isn`t logic and good science.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Fri 19 Nov 23:43
Your choice of the word ‘refusers’ is setting up a binary distinction between two groups of people who are both acting in what they perceive to be their own and the public best interest.
Science, as Jacob Bronowski memorably pointed out, is ever on the verge of error. That’s the nature of science as it tries to push forward our understanding of the world. Science does not claim mathematical proof, although we are often encouraged to believe that it does by political and commercial interests. At present the best evidence we have is that vaccination helps reduce the effects of Covid. However, so far as I am aware, there is limited evidence that it prevents the transmission of Covid.
Therefore to lockdown people on suspicion, when they are perfectly healthy, due to their not having been vaccinated is a total over reaction. It is as absurd as allowing people who have been vaccinated , yet may be unwittingly transmitting the virus, to walk around in public under the false belief they are safe to do so. This is not bad science: this is hare brained political panic. I don’t see a conspiracy the way Rastapari does; I just see a tranche of politicians who are struggling to find a scientific solution that does not yet exist, but may do so in the near future. Until then, they just want to do things to make it seem like they are in control. And so far at least, the public seem to accept this state of affairs.
sammer
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Sat 20 Nov 00:12
I see the death rate in new born babies in Scotland has suddenly shot up with the most recent data showing a mortality rate of 4.9 per 1,000, compared to a usual average of 2 per 1,000. I wonder what could be causing that
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sat 20 Nov 00:41
"Topic Originator: red-star-par like | nolike
Date: Sat 20 Nov 00:12
I see the death rate in new born babies in Scotland has suddenly shot up with the most recent data showing a mortality rate of 4.9 per 1,000, compared to a usual average of 2 per 1,000. I wonder what could be causing that"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-59347464
The doctor in that article suggests, only suggests though because as the data is analysed it will become clearer, what she believes is the biggest driver in this tragic increase in new born deaths.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Sat 20 Nov 02:11
TOWK,
Thanks for the links to the scientific articles. The science is still pretty fluid but is clearly outlining the benefits of vaccination which I have no reason to discount. I hope the vaccination programme continues to develop and I may sign up in the near future.
However I will continue to oppose compulsory vaccination in whatever social, economic or legal form it takes. Partly these are personal reasons: I have enjoyed good health and only caught Covid after my companion was given her first jab. She was hauled off to hospital with 50% breathing but I was merely confined to barracks, spared possibly (according to the doctor) because 50 years of smoking had coated my lungs from the worst. So much for science I might say. Of course I cannot prove or any more than science can disprove, that her jab was the cause of anything, which is why I distrust statistics.
The social implications of compulsion are very harmful, and truly alarming in terms of how they might in future be developed in terms of public policy. No black youths on the streets of London after 7pm to reduce knife crime? No men without a chemical castration ID allowed into venues so as to prevent sex crime? No unaccompanied woman in a short skirt allowed out after dusk to cut back on prostitution etc etc. It’s Pandora’s Box. So I understand the concerns of the White Rose movement, although they take their name from brave defiance of Nazism which only surfaced after Stalingrad. It will take more than middle class university students with a religious belief to counter this recent form of compulsion. How about mass support for vaccination programme: mass opposition to compulsion?
sammer
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Sun 21 Nov 09:59
Symptomless variant driving up numbers....not even trying now, ludicrous nonsense.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 21 Nov 12:50
Quote:
Rastapari, Sun 21 Nov 09:59
Symptomless variant driving up numbers....not even trying now, ludicrous nonsense.
Except it isn't symptomless, is it? That's just what the red tops will call it.
It's less likely people will display symptoms but there are still symptoms in the vast majority of cases. If it was symptomless then there would be little concern. The concern with a variant where upto a third of people may display no symptoms is that they don't realise they are carrying it and then go round a hospital or care home.
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sun 21 Nov 14:20
Quote:
Rastapari, Sun 21 Nov 09:59
Symptomless variant driving up numbers....not even trying now, ludicrous nonsense.
Out of Interest how much is a monthly Daily Star subscription?
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Sun 21 Nov 16:33
Quote:
da_no_1, Sun 21 Nov 14:20
Out of Interest how much is a monthly Daily Star subscription?
Do your own research. 😂😂😂
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 23 Nov 19:58
I see Slovakia are ready to follow Austria into a full lockdown for the non vaccinated and Israel are to follow the USA and vaccinate children of 5-11 years.
Serious misgivings here.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Wed 24 Nov 06:48
Quote:
GG Riva, Tue 23 Nov 19:58
I see Slovakia are ready to follow Austria into a full lockdown for the non vaccinated and Israel are to follow the USA and vaccinate children of 5-11 years.
Serious misgivings here.
I am surprised the Slovaks didn’t test the lockdown on the ethnic Hungarians first. The Slovak government are known for radical decisions as part of their nature. Also the police are like the communist Stasi. I know from experience. I wouldn’t take anything that the Slovak government do as normal.
Sorry, don’t have many good things to say about that state, even if it is beautiful in many places.
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Topic Originator: Parnott
Date: Wed 24 Nov 08:52
So now a negative LFT is on par with a vaccine passport. Surely drives a bus through the whole concept rendering it totally pointless whilst simultaneously undermining any drive to increase vaccine uptake. 🤦♂️
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Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Wed 24 Nov 22:20
Thought I’d just give an update on our position.
Our 11yo whilst positive was absolutely fine, no issues and it was more difficult convincing her it wasn’t a holiday than anything else.
I was curious as to how fast/if it would spread, my wife does now have it and it’s hit her a little harder, I wouldn’t say it’s particularly worse than any other virus but she’s been confined to her bed for a few days now, throat, cough and aches predominantly and seeing gradual improvements daily so hoping that continues and she’s over it by the weekend.
As for the rest in the house, the wee man,5,is fine now, mentioned before he had a hacking cough, he’s always tested negative but wouldn’t rule him out being the first to have it and just gone by the time we tested, will never know.
Myself and the eldest thankfully have avoided it, we’ve ended up having three PCR tests, one when the first covid was identified (both negative), one when wife caught it (both were unconfirmed) and another one tonight because of the inconclusive. So waiting to see but would be surprised if it’s not negative.
In the meantime mother in law has had both vaccines and had her booster, post booster she was very ill but then recovered…to then catch covid so she’s on the mend as well but facing similar symptoms to the wife, milder or worse, in truth I don’t know.
Right now, just ducking and diving and kipping on the couch until this all blows over!
Post Edited (Wed 24 Nov 22:23)
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Wed 24 Nov 23:44
Good news that it appears that everyone is going to come through it without any serious illness. I did wonder, when reading your post Berry, if maybe you had been infected previously and had been asymptomatic and now had some immunity but then it wouldn`t explain how your other half didn`t catch it at that point. I wonder if perhaps some people are genetically predispositioned to catch the virus more easily? No matter, hopefully in a couple weeks both your wife and mother in law will have shaken it off completely and you can enjoy the festive period.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Thu 25 Nov 16:15
Italy the latest country to turn the screw on those who are still unvaccinated. From 6 December until 15th Jan, they will be in lockdown other than shopping for essentials such as food or medicine.
In addition, vaccination will be mandatory for health workers, teachers and the police. Also under discussion is the option of offering small doses of the vaccine to children aged 5-11.
An angry backlash is on the cards......
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 25 Nov 17:18
Quote:
GG Riva, Thu 25 Nov 16:15
Italy the latest country to turn the screw on those who are still unvaccinated. From 6 December until 15th Jan, they will be in lockdown other than shopping for essentials such as food or medicine.
In addition, vaccination will be mandatory for health workers, teachers and the police. Also under discussion is the option of offering small doses of the vaccine to children aged 5-11.
An angry backlash is on the cards......
I'm not sure about Italy, but I know in Spain they take the rules very seriously. Over here they seem to be very loosely applied. Amazing how many people with hidden disabilities have suddenly appeared. Makes a mockery of those with genuine hidden disabilities!
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Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Thu 25 Nov 17:30
Our tests came back, I’m now the only one negative, our eldest is positive so definitely has spread amongst the family and not sure how I’m the only one that’s not caught it.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Thu 25 Nov 18:07
So, do you guys trust fact checkers?
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Thu 25 Nov 18:47
Quote:
Rastapari, Thu 25 Nov 18:07
So, do you guys trust fact checkers?
More than I trust you.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Thu 25 Nov 18:55
Quote:
sadindiefreak, Thu 25 Nov 18:47
Quote:
Rastapari, Thu 25 Nov 18:07
So, do you guys trust fact checkers?
More than I trust you.
Good, then I won't scare you with figures from the last week direct from Public Health Scotland that aren't being flagged as false or missing context.
Seems the unvaxxed are out dying the vaxxed is utter crap.
Thanks for commenting.
No doubt they'll have missed that one though eh.
Still salty I see, shame, you could grow up and move on.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: CAPar
Date: Thu 25 Nov 19:09
Strange then that today they released a report saying 27,656 deaths had been directly averted due to the vaccination programme
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 25 Nov 19:20
If people were to actually read the PHS reports rather than pick up on what the Sun report, they'd know that an increase in vaccinated hospital admissions is because...the majority of people are VACCINATED!
Take a look at death stats for last year in comparison to this year and it's much lower. I'd still take that with a pinch of salt as one argument could be that COVID last year resulted in the death of most of the most vulnerable in society.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Thu 25 Nov 19:25
Quote:
jake89, Thu 25 Nov 19:20
If people were to actually read the PHS reports rather than pick up on what the Sun report, they'd know that an increase in vaccinated hospital admissions is because...the majority of people are VACCINATED!
Take a look at death stats for last year in comparison to this year and it's much lower. I'd still take that with a pinch of salt as one argument could be that COVID last year resulted in the death of most of the most vulnerable in society.
That's my point ya weapon, it was supposed to protect them...jings min.
I get the impression if somebody chopped off your leg you'd be fine with it...as long as they used an approved saw.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 25 Nov 19:28
And it has protected the majority...thus the hospitalisation figures are far lower than they were last year despite fewer restrictions.
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Topic Originator: CAPar
Date: Thu 25 Nov 19:53
Vaccine trials proved the vaccines didn't provide 100% protection, no one has ever said they did.
It's also widely accepted that protection decreases over time and doesn't work so well in certain groups (those with weak immume systems and the elderly for example).
For the period of 6-12 November the Public Health Scotland figures show that deaths in the unvaccinated were 5.05 per 100,000 but in the vaccinated were 1.79 per 100,000. I think that shows pretty well how much protection, overall, that being vaccinated gives over not. So whatever agenda is being pushed here, it's not really working.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Thu 25 Nov 20:25
Another realisation that is now becoming evident, is that the 6 months protection estimate was more than a tad optimistic and some countries will now be offering boosters after 5 and even 4 months.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Berry
Date: Fri 26 Nov 14:32
Another new variant, this isn’t going to end.
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Fri 26 Nov 14:59
This one seems to have the experts worried? 😔
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Fri 26 Nov 15:11
Dutch about to go code black according to a mate over there. Demand for hospital beds outweighing the number available so will need to make a decision on who is treated.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 26 Nov 16:39
Quote:
Playup_Pompey, Fri 26 Nov 15:11
Dutch about to go code black according to a mate over there. Demand for hospital beds outweighing the number available so will need to make a decision on who is treated.
Some patients going over the border to Germany, apparently.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Fri 26 Nov 16:43
I just got my Biontech/Pfizer booster this morning after Jonsson initial jab.
No soreness yet - probably spank me overnight…
One thing that I tried to impress upon my anti-vax friends who keep spouting stats of x% of hospitalisations are vaccinated people as being proof that it doesn’t work…
Imagine for one moment that everyone got vaccinated, it’s sure that some people will still be hospitalised, and guess what - 100% of them were double jabbed…
Does this mean that the vacc doesn’t work?
D’oh.
The higher the vaccinated rate, it follows that the % of hospitalised people vaccinated will increase too.
Now, some people die in car accidents despite wearing a seatbelt - does this prove that seatbelts don’t work?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 26 Nov 17:20
Should be okay with Pfizer, Lux. Probably a tender arm for a day or so then nothing. It's the AZ one that seems to hit people hard.
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Topic Originator: EastEndBoy
Date: Fri 26 Nov 18:47
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Fri 26 Nov 14:59
This one seems to have the experts worried? 😔
Don't worry. Our resident anti-establishment friends will be along in a minute to remind us that variants are a load of nonsence that scientists just make up on government orders to keep the people quiet because reasons.
...ken?
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Topic Originator: brian
Date: Sat 27 Nov 19:10
Health Secretary Sajid Javid said "this is a real reminder that this pandemic is far from over" as he urged people to get their vaccines, including boosters.
____________________
contact: email me
File Share: https://share2.co.uk
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Topic Originator: the saline hill puma
Date: Sat 27 Nov 23:02
Quote:
brian, Sat 27 Nov 19:10
Health Secretary Sajid Javid said "this is a real reminder that this pandemic is far from over" as he urged people to get their vaccines, including boosters.
Sajid javid is nothing more than a scummy tory flower. FACT
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Sun 28 Nov 07:11
Get my booster this morning. It is interesting that I had to chase the booking myself. I was still if the belief that a letter would come but apparently not…..
I didn’t see anything in the press or social media to that fact. So anyone who is waiting like I was, phone this number to get your booster 0800 030 8013.
I was over 6 months since my 2nd injection and so was my wife, but the system has now changed and you must DIY. 🤷♂️
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sun 28 Nov 07:29
Quote:
parsmad68, Sun 28 Nov 07:11
Get my booster this morning. It is interesting that I had to chase the booking myself. I was still if the belief that a letter would come but apparently not…..
I didn’t see anything in the press or social media to that fact. So anyone who is waiting like I was, phone this number to get your booster 0800 030 8013.
I was over 6 months since my 2nd injection and so was my wife, but the system has now changed and you must DIY. 🤷♂️
Strange, my wife and I got our invite through the post, in chronological order, as did a number of friends and relatives. One elderly neighbour was originally vaccinated at her GP surgery and she phoned them when her booster was overdue.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: parsfan
Date: Sun 28 Nov 07:45
Quote:
parsmad68, Sun 28 Nov 07:11
Get my booster this morning. It is interesting that I had to chase the booking myself. I was still if the belief that a letter would come but apparently not…..
I didn’t see anything in the press or social media to that fact. So anyone who is waiting like I was, phone this number to get your booster 0800 030 8013.
I was over 6 months since my 2nd injection and so was my wife, but the system has now changed and you must DIY. 🤷♂️
It's not quite as cut and dried as that. I haven't had mine yet but my wife, younger than me, received her letter on Friday.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 28 Nov 07:47
It may be different by board. Simplest thing to do is log in and check when you had your second dose and add 6 months.
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Sun 28 Nov 08:27
It is strange GG but correct. The booster program has changed direction but who knew. The fact that both myself and my wife should have been called forward and were not shows there is a failing in the system and people should not wait.
Post Edited (Sun 28 Nov 08:27)
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sun 28 Nov 08:48
I ended up being about 8 months until I got my booster (yesterday).
I ended up getting my first jab early as I happened to be in St Barts on the day they were wanting trialists to test their process in January. Because I was under 50 they wouldn't give me a booster at the GP when I reached 6 months. Feels a little less well planned than earlier phases but still getting through the population pretty quickly.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sun 28 Nov 12:13
My booster shot invitation came along with my flu vaccination appointment, as did my wife's, our friends had similar experiences.
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