DAFC.net
Home 19 August 2022 
 Post Message  |  Top of Board  |  Go to Topic  |  Search  |  Twitter Updates  |  Log In   Forum Rules  |  Newer Topic  |  Older Topic  |  end 
[ please login to use the Like feature ]
 P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: buffy  
Date:   Thu 17 Mar 13:46

Have made 800 staff redundant this morning, whilst re-hiring agency workers to enable sailings.

From the Belfast Telegraph:
“As part of the process we are starting today, we are providing 800 seafarers with immediate severance notices and will be compensating them for this lack of advance notice with enhanced compensation packages.”

P&O have apparently lost £100M in the last year.



Post Edited (Thu 17 Mar 13:50)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Thu 17 Mar 14:17

Terrible news for those affected... But not an unusual move by P&O.
Been happening worldwide in the industry and merchant navy (or what`s left of it) for years.
Punt workers and bring in replacements that will do the same job just as well for half the wage (sometimes less)


[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Thu 17 Mar 16:16

FFS. I hope the crew who are refusing to go manage to hold on long enough to cause disruption, but I guess the police will be called to get them off before the new crew arrives.

I would be utterly livid in their situation. Now that covid is more-or-less over they were probably going to make a profit in 2022/2023 without doing anything, so they need to get rid of everyone as quickly as possible before things start looking up.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 17 Mar 17:53

Another company owned from the Middle East!
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Thu 17 Mar 19:53

Quote:

aaaaaaaaaargh, Thu 17 Mar 16:16

FFS. I hope the crew who are refusing to go manage to hold on long enough to cause disruption, but I guess the police will be called to get them off before the new crew arrives.

I would be utterly livid in their situation. Now that covid is more-or-less over they were probably going to make a profit in 2022/2023 without doing anything, so they need to get rid of everyone as quickly as possible before things start looking up.


Difficult to board a ship if the gangways are removed though 🤣


[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 17 Mar 19:59

P&O Cruises (completely separate company with different owner) have been quick to distance themselves from their namesake.

Absolutely disgusting from P&O ferries. The reputational damage will surely kill them off?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 18 Mar 06:43

RS Archer on Twitter

"The P&O situation should be a reminder to everyone in Britain that their rights were removed with Brexit. In addition members of the @RMTunion should ask why the union was so supportive of Brexit."



Not your average Sunday League player.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 18 Mar 07:22

I thought `redundancy` meant there was no longer a job to fill so it`s illogical to sack people on that pretext and then replace them.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
-
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Fri 18 Mar 08:24

Be interesting to see how this proposal stands up to TUPE law.
The fact that p&o have stated they plan to replace employees with agency staff doing the same job. This is why TUPE law was conceived in the first place... To stop exactly this kind of thing.
Although they can just change the job title of the new agency guys and jobs a good un.... I`ve seen it done before.


[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: Bandy  
Date:   Fri 18 Mar 08:25

Not a lawyer in any way, but I think the argument is that the roles are now `redundant` for permanent staff because the company structure has changed such that those roles are now outsourced to an agency, and therefore the permanent employee positions are `redundant`.

As I say, no lawyer, so no expert in the ins and outs.

Legally - it might be OK. Morally - it`s reprehensible.



Post Edited (Fri 18 Mar 08:26)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 18 Mar 08:44

Good to hear one of the workers who had been brought in to replace the `redundant` workers walked away when he heard what P&O had done.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Fri 18 Mar 09:38

One of the people on TV this morning saying that when vessels are outwith UK territorial waters employment laws are not applicable......such as minimum wage.

So what applies when they enter British waters ?

Doesn`t make sense to me.

Can anybody clarify please ?

Simon Calder gets stuck into P&O ferries in his weekly column today.

As jake89 says - don`t confuse P&O Ferries with their name sake in the cruise industry.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Fri 18 Mar 09:49

Interesting that it`s not happening to their French employees, running scared of a blockade?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: buffy  
Date:   Fri 18 Mar 10:20

“ Although they can just change the job title ”
Yup Tiddlywinks that’s what happened to me when I was made redundant in town. One word was changed in my job title and the “new” role was advertised in-house. I had to re-apply for it. It was a jump-through-hoops-before-we-get-rid-of-you month. It was a vile experience, especially after my previous redundancy a few years before when I was told I was “the favourite to go” 3 times in the space of an hour, by my employer. They wanted me to work a notice period - I told them where to shove it.


The workers of Irish Ferries and British Gas have all been through the fire and hire scenario in recent times. It wasn’t a surprise when P&O announced this; they’re offering severance and compensation to cover their backs.

”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 18 Mar 10:47

They spent £174 million sponsoring a golf tournament then complained about staff costs.

Seems to me that there has been gross mismanagement, but, as usual, it is the innocent, hard working, staff who take the hit.

I wonder what management bonuses will be this year?


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 18 Mar 11:17

Their parent company also paid £270 million to Shareholders in 2020 after taking £10 million form the government for furlough.

Totally stinks.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Fri 18 Mar 11:28

It`s a travesty that has blighted the marine industry for years and years.
Thing is. .. They always seem to get away with it.
In my case they got away with it by giving me a more than generous redundancy package (much more than I was entitled to).
Mind you... My shipmates and I did have to pay for the services of an employment specialist lawyer as our employer was adamant that we were entitled to nothing apart from 3 months notice... But he did a great job so it was worth it.
There was a few of us involved in the case which kept our total costs quite low.
Company we used was Thornber HR law (he deserves a plug cos he`s a decent bloke to be fair) 🤣


[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: Perkins  
Date:   Fri 18 Mar 13:07

"Be interesting to see how this proposal stands up to TUPE law.
The fact that p&o have stated they plan to replace employees with agency staff doing the same job. This is why TUPE law was conceived in the first place... To stop exactly this kind of thing."

I think TUPE relates to the transfer of employee`s contracts to different employers. I don`t think it`s relevant in this situation.

[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Fri 18 Mar 13:30

No it does…

It covers quite a lot when employees transfer to another company and alongside protecting their terms and conditions it also protects their role and employment

That said, there are get out clauses, which I’m guessing they’ve proven and invoked

Reading the bbc it says they didn’t go through the proper consultation - so while that may not change the outcome - just delay it, it looks like they didn’t follow the legal process

Post Edited (Fri 18 Mar 13:47)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Fri 18 Mar 13:49

Problem with TUPE is that a lot of it can be interpreted multiple ways.
It`s a minefield.
It needs simplified.


[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Sat 19 Mar 05:41

Quote:

DBP, Fri 18 Mar 13:30

No it does…

It covers quite a lot when employees transfer to another company and alongside protecting their terms and conditions it also protects their role and employment

That said, there are get out clauses, which I’m guessing they’ve proven and invoked

Reading the bbc it says they didn’t go through the proper consultation - so while that may not change the outcome - just delay it, it looks like they didn’t follow the legal process


When you make a large amount of your workforce redundant you should go through a 100 day consultation period.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sat 19 Mar 09:44

Quote:

Tenruh, Sat 19 Mar 05:41

Quote:

DBP, Fri 18 Mar 13:30

No it does…

It covers quite a lot when employees transfer to another company and alongside protecting their terms and conditions it also protects their role and employment

That said, there are get out clauses, which I’m guessing they’ve proven and invoked

Reading the bbc it says they didn’t go through the proper consultation - so while that may not change the outcome - just delay it, it looks like they didn’t follow the legal process


When you make a large amount of your workforce redundant you should go through a 100 day consultation period.


You should. But we didn`t when we went bust the day before payday. 2 years later we got a collective consultation award but only if you applied for it. The UK government paid it (us)

The whole thing stinks

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Messed up
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Sat 19 Mar 10:42

Wrong thread somehow.

Post Edited (Sat 19 Mar 13:18)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Messed up
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 19 Mar 15:21

Tories mock outrage in the media, pity they hadn`t voted for worker`s rights at Westminster!
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Messed up
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Sat 19 Mar 16:16

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Sat 19 Mar 15:21

Tories mock outrage in the media, pity they hadn`t voted for worker`s rights at Westminster!


Yep. Up in arms. Let`s see if anything changes though. Of course it won`t.

DA_NO1 and myself both lived through the experience and it`s horrible.
It went like this...
They folded on the last day of July 19. We got no wages. 250 of us were rounded up and told we had no job with immediate effect. And the company were walking away and paying out nothing. Everything was left to be paid out by the taxpayer.
I had 36 years service. Government paid redundancy pay was capped at 20 years. The 1st 20 years. So I got the least amount. The amount per week was also capped at £500 odd. Much less than I earned.
Eventually we got a back pay claim. Also capped at a good bit less than I earned. Then 10% was taken off my pension pot cause it went into the PPF.
And as DA_NO1 said, the lack of consultation claim took 2 years to settle. And we got a pay out that (you`ve guessed it) was capped. Less weeks than the judgement gave us and at less per week.
Shafted at every turn.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Messed up
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 19 Mar 16:26

Now being said that Dept of Transport knew 24hrs before, BJ being tipped off whilst in Middle East?
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: Messed up
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Sat 19 Mar 20:11

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Sat 19 Mar 16:26

Now being said that Dept of Transport knew 24hrs before, BJ being tipped off whilst in Middle East?


Definitely all Boris`s fault like

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P
Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle  
Date:   Sat 19 Mar 23:46

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Sat 19 Mar 15:21

Tories mock outrage in the media, pity they hadn`t voted for worker`s rights at Westminster!


Lol, did have a chuckle at that.

This is my signature
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 20 Mar 09:07

The not so funny thing is that people still vote for these utter see you next Tuesday`s.

I think the biggest issue in England (where the majority of seats are) is there is no credible alternative. I`ll put it out there that the SNP are by no means great but without them there would be a lot more Tory seats as Labour are unelectable right now. Boris Johnson could be photographed drowning kittens and people would still vote for him* rather than Keir Starmer.

*appreciate that you vote for your local representative and not the leader.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sun 20 Mar 11:19

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58997916
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 20 Mar 12:28

Without wanting to get this topic moved to another forum I actually think the snp are in for a bit of a bloody nose at the council elections in a few weeks. The mood music around Scottish politics is subtlety changing I reckon.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: DBA  
Date:   Sun 20 Mar 13:46

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 20 Mar 12:28

Without wanting to get this topic moved to another forum I actually think the snp are in for a bit of a bloody nose at the council elections in a few weeks. The mood music around Scottish politics is subtlety changing I reckon.


Funny, as my experience is that it`s moving the other way and SNP support is still increasing. A lot will depend on turnout I reckon.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Sun 20 Mar 16:16

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sun 20 Mar 12:28

Without wanting to get this topic moved to another forum I actually think the snp are in for a bit of a bloody nose at the council elections in a few weeks. The mood music around Scottish politics is subtlety changing I reckon.


That`s interesting but where`s it moving to in your opinion. The council elections mean less than the national election but it`s often where opinion differs. However, I don`t see any evidence of much of a shift.

The Tories and labour still get a pasting when it comes to first minister questions. Their leaders are pretty hopeless.
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Tue 22 Mar 08:53

I can’t speak for Fife, but hereabouts it’s rare to get near a 50% turnout in local elections. I can only think of one contest in recent times, and that was only a tiny fraction above half in one ward only.

Then whoever is elected also struggles to get 50% of the number who did vote.

Many voters are still unaware that their ward is represented by more than a single councillor.

Folk are generally disinterested about local politics until it comes to subjects which involve them directly - like the collection of bins etc.

Post Edited (Tue 22 Mar 09:56)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 22 Mar 12:58

Good to know that the motion, in parliament last night, to suspend contracts and licences of P&O ferries was not supported by the tories, in fact they all abstained!

Post Edited (Tue 22 Mar 12:59)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Re: P&O Ferries
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 23 Mar 17:48

Spot on L.A.

But looks like Boris the Brave has misspoke again and all on Chris Grayling`s shift

The man has not a clue as to what is going on



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60849957



Post Edited (Wed 23 Mar 17:51)
[IP address logged]
Report Abuse   Reply To This Message
 Top of Board  |  Forum List  |  Threaded View   Forum Rules  |  Newer Topic  |  Older Topic  |  end 


Rows: 0
 Forum List  |  Need a Login? Register Here 
 User Login
 User Name:
 Password:
 Remember my login:
   
 Forgot Your Password?
Enter your email address or user name below and a new password will be sent to the email address associated with your profile.
Security : type 'pars' in the box:
email:
© 2021-- DAFC.net