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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Thu 17 Mar 13:46
Have made 800 staff redundant this morning, whilst re-hiring agency workers to enable sailings.
From the Belfast Telegraph:
“As part of the process we are starting today, we are providing 800 seafarers with immediate severance notices and will be compensating them for this lack of advance notice with enhanced compensation packages.”
P&O have apparently lost £100M in the last year.
Post Edited (Thu 17 Mar 13:50)
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Topic Originator: widtink
Date: Thu 17 Mar 14:17
Terrible news for those affected... But not an unusual move by P&O.
Been happening worldwide in the industry and merchant navy (or what`s left of it) for years.
Punt workers and bring in replacements that will do the same job just as well for half the wage (sometimes less)
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Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh
Date: Thu 17 Mar 16:16
FFS. I hope the crew who are refusing to go manage to hold on long enough to cause disruption, but I guess the police will be called to get them off before the new crew arrives.
I would be utterly livid in their situation. Now that covid is more-or-less over they were probably going to make a profit in 2022/2023 without doing anything, so they need to get rid of everyone as quickly as possible before things start looking up.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Thu 17 Mar 17:53
Another company owned from the Middle East!
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Topic Originator: widtink
Date: Thu 17 Mar 19:53
Quote:
aaaaaaaaaargh, Thu 17 Mar 16:16
FFS. I hope the crew who are refusing to go manage to hold on long enough to cause disruption, but I guess the police will be called to get them off before the new crew arrives.
I would be utterly livid in their situation. Now that covid is more-or-less over they were probably going to make a profit in 2022/2023 without doing anything, so they need to get rid of everyone as quickly as possible before things start looking up.
Difficult to board a ship if the gangways are removed though 🤣
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 17 Mar 19:59
P&O Cruises (completely separate company with different owner) have been quick to distance themselves from their namesake.
Absolutely disgusting from P&O ferries. The reputational damage will surely kill them off?
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 18 Mar 06:43
RS Archer on Twitter
"The P&O situation should be a reminder to everyone in Britain that their rights were removed with Brexit. In addition members of the @RMTunion should ask why the union was so supportive of Brexit."
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 18 Mar 07:22
I thought `redundancy` meant there was no longer a job to fill so it`s illogical to sack people on that pretext and then replace them.
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Topic Originator: widtink
Date: Fri 18 Mar 08:24
Be interesting to see how this proposal stands up to TUPE law.
The fact that p&o have stated they plan to replace employees with agency staff doing the same job. This is why TUPE law was conceived in the first place... To stop exactly this kind of thing.
Although they can just change the job title of the new agency guys and jobs a good un.... I`ve seen it done before.
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Fri 18 Mar 08:25
Not a lawyer in any way, but I think the argument is that the roles are now `redundant` for permanent staff because the company structure has changed such that those roles are now outsourced to an agency, and therefore the permanent employee positions are `redundant`.
As I say, no lawyer, so no expert in the ins and outs.
Legally - it might be OK. Morally - it`s reprehensible.
Post Edited (Fri 18 Mar 08:26)
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 18 Mar 08:44
Good to hear one of the workers who had been brought in to replace the `redundant` workers walked away when he heard what P&O had done.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Fri 18 Mar 09:38
One of the people on TV this morning saying that when vessels are outwith UK territorial waters employment laws are not applicable......such as minimum wage.
So what applies when they enter British waters ?
Doesn`t make sense to me.
Can anybody clarify please ?
Simon Calder gets stuck into P&O ferries in his weekly column today.
As jake89 says - don`t confuse P&O Ferries with their name sake in the cruise industry.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Fri 18 Mar 09:49
Interesting that it`s not happening to their French employees, running scared of a blockade?
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Fri 18 Mar 10:20
“ Although they can just change the job title ”
Yup Tiddlywinks that’s what happened to me when I was made redundant in town. One word was changed in my job title and the “new” role was advertised in-house. I had to re-apply for it. It was a jump-through-hoops-before-we-get-rid-of-you month. It was a vile experience, especially after my previous redundancy a few years before when I was told I was “the favourite to go” 3 times in the space of an hour, by my employer. They wanted me to work a notice period - I told them where to shove it.
The workers of Irish Ferries and British Gas have all been through the fire and hire scenario in recent times. It wasn’t a surprise when P&O announced this; they’re offering severance and compensation to cover their backs.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Fri 18 Mar 10:47
They spent £174 million sponsoring a golf tournament then complained about staff costs.
Seems to me that there has been gross mismanagement, but, as usual, it is the innocent, hard working, staff who take the hit.
I wonder what management bonuses will be this year?
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Fri 18 Mar 11:17
Their parent company also paid £270 million to Shareholders in 2020 after taking £10 million form the government for furlough.
Totally stinks.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: widtink
Date: Fri 18 Mar 11:28
It`s a travesty that has blighted the marine industry for years and years.
Thing is. .. They always seem to get away with it.
In my case they got away with it by giving me a more than generous redundancy package (much more than I was entitled to).
Mind you... My shipmates and I did have to pay for the services of an employment specialist lawyer as our employer was adamant that we were entitled to nothing apart from 3 months notice... But he did a great job so it was worth it.
There was a few of us involved in the case which kept our total costs quite low.
Company we used was Thornber HR law (he deserves a plug cos he`s a decent bloke to be fair) 🤣
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Topic Originator: Perkins
Date: Fri 18 Mar 13:07
"Be interesting to see how this proposal stands up to TUPE law.
The fact that p&o have stated they plan to replace employees with agency staff doing the same job. This is why TUPE law was conceived in the first place... To stop exactly this kind of thing."
I think TUPE relates to the transfer of employee`s contracts to different employers. I don`t think it`s relevant in this situation.
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Fri 18 Mar 13:30
No it does…
It covers quite a lot when employees transfer to another company and alongside protecting their terms and conditions it also protects their role and employment
That said, there are get out clauses, which I’m guessing they’ve proven and invoked
Reading the bbc it says they didn’t go through the proper consultation - so while that may not change the outcome - just delay it, it looks like they didn’t follow the legal process
Post Edited (Fri 18 Mar 13:47)
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Topic Originator: widtink
Date: Fri 18 Mar 13:49
Problem with TUPE is that a lot of it can be interpreted multiple ways.
It`s a minefield.
It needs simplified.
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Sat 19 Mar 05:41
Quote:
DBP, Fri 18 Mar 13:30
No it does…
It covers quite a lot when employees transfer to another company and alongside protecting their terms and conditions it also protects their role and employment
That said, there are get out clauses, which I’m guessing they’ve proven and invoked
Reading the bbc it says they didn’t go through the proper consultation - so while that may not change the outcome - just delay it, it looks like they didn’t follow the legal process
When you make a large amount of your workforce redundant you should go through a 100 day consultation period.
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sat 19 Mar 09:44
Quote:
Tenruh, Sat 19 Mar 05:41
Quote:
DBP, Fri 18 Mar 13:30
No it does…
It covers quite a lot when employees transfer to another company and alongside protecting their terms and conditions it also protects their role and employment
That said, there are get out clauses, which I’m guessing they’ve proven and invoked
Reading the bbc it says they didn’t go through the proper consultation - so while that may not change the outcome - just delay it, it looks like they didn’t follow the legal process
When you make a large amount of your workforce redundant you should go through a 100 day consultation period.
You should. But we didn`t when we went bust the day before payday. 2 years later we got a collective consultation award but only if you applied for it. The UK government paid it (us)
The whole thing stinks
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sat 19 Mar 10:42
Wrong thread somehow.
Post Edited (Sat 19 Mar 13:18)
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sat 19 Mar 15:21
Tories mock outrage in the media, pity they hadn`t voted for worker`s rights at Westminster!
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Topic Originator: JTH123
Date: Sat 19 Mar 16:16
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Sat 19 Mar 15:21
Tories mock outrage in the media, pity they hadn`t voted for worker`s rights at Westminster!
Yep. Up in arms. Let`s see if anything changes though. Of course it won`t.
DA_NO1 and myself both lived through the experience and it`s horrible.
It went like this...
They folded on the last day of July 19. We got no wages. 250 of us were rounded up and told we had no job with immediate effect. And the company were walking away and paying out nothing. Everything was left to be paid out by the taxpayer.
I had 36 years service. Government paid redundancy pay was capped at 20 years. The 1st 20 years. So I got the least amount. The amount per week was also capped at £500 odd. Much less than I earned.
Eventually we got a back pay claim. Also capped at a good bit less than I earned. Then 10% was taken off my pension pot cause it went into the PPF.
And as DA_NO1 said, the lack of consultation claim took 2 years to settle. And we got a pay out that (you`ve guessed it) was capped. Less weeks than the judgement gave us and at less per week.
Shafted at every turn.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sat 19 Mar 16:26
Now being said that Dept of Transport knew 24hrs before, BJ being tipped off whilst in Middle East?
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sat 19 Mar 20:11
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Sat 19 Mar 16:26
Now being said that Dept of Transport knew 24hrs before, BJ being tipped off whilst in Middle East?
Definitely all Boris`s fault like
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle
Date: Sat 19 Mar 23:46
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Sat 19 Mar 15:21
Tories mock outrage in the media, pity they hadn`t voted for worker`s rights at Westminster!
Lol, did have a chuckle at that.
This is my signature
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 20 Mar 09:07
The not so funny thing is that people still vote for these utter see you next Tuesday`s.
I think the biggest issue in England (where the majority of seats are) is there is no credible alternative. I`ll put it out there that the SNP are by no means great but without them there would be a lot more Tory seats as Labour are unelectable right now. Boris Johnson could be photographed drowning kittens and people would still vote for him* rather than Keir Starmer.
*appreciate that you vote for your local representative and not the leader.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 20 Mar 12:28
Without wanting to get this topic moved to another forum I actually think the snp are in for a bit of a bloody nose at the council elections in a few weeks. The mood music around Scottish politics is subtlety changing I reckon.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: DBA
Date: Sun 20 Mar 13:46
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Sun 20 Mar 12:28
Without wanting to get this topic moved to another forum I actually think the snp are in for a bit of a bloody nose at the council elections in a few weeks. The mood music around Scottish politics is subtlety changing I reckon.
Funny, as my experience is that it`s moving the other way and SNP support is still increasing. A lot will depend on turnout I reckon.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Sun 20 Mar 16:16
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Sun 20 Mar 12:28
Without wanting to get this topic moved to another forum I actually think the snp are in for a bit of a bloody nose at the council elections in a few weeks. The mood music around Scottish politics is subtlety changing I reckon.
That`s interesting but where`s it moving to in your opinion. The council elections mean less than the national election but it`s often where opinion differs. However, I don`t see any evidence of much of a shift.
The Tories and labour still get a pasting when it comes to first minister questions. Their leaders are pretty hopeless.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Tue 22 Mar 08:53
I can’t speak for Fife, but hereabouts it’s rare to get near a 50% turnout in local elections. I can only think of one contest in recent times, and that was only a tiny fraction above half in one ward only.
Then whoever is elected also struggles to get 50% of the number who did vote.
Many voters are still unaware that their ward is represented by more than a single councillor.
Folk are generally disinterested about local politics until it comes to subjects which involve them directly - like the collection of bins etc.
Post Edited (Tue 22 Mar 09:56)
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Tue 22 Mar 12:58
Good to know that the motion, in parliament last night, to suspend contracts and licences of P&O ferries was not supported by the tories, in fact they all abstained!
Post Edited (Tue 22 Mar 12:59)
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Wed 23 Mar 17:48
Spot on L.A.
But looks like Boris the Brave has misspoke again and all on Chris Grayling`s shift
The man has not a clue as to what is going on
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60849957
Post Edited (Wed 23 Mar 17:51)
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