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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Thu 9 Mar 12:14
Are we not getting into dangerous territory when the BBC hides behinds its "impartiality" rules to try and muzzle its employees from saying something that some politicians don`t like?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64899472
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 9 Mar 13:08
Would you feel the same had Lineker said that he is full square behind the governments immigration measures and feels they should be even sterner? I can`t really be done with Gary Lineker at all so maybe that`s clouding my judgement about him especially as he fights to avoid paying tax.
[URL/]https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/feb/27/gary-linekers-lawyers-say-hmrc-tax-probe-looking-in-the-wrong-place[URL]
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Thu 9 Mar 13:47
We are in dangerous territory when everyone to the right of Stalin is called a Nazi.
The asylum system is broken and being exploited by people smugglers and
economic migrants, I support Lineker`s right to free speech but not while in a tax payer funded position of privilege.
Lineker will never struggle for a council home, a doctors appointment or see the demographics of his community change overnight, he will just pass judgement on the working class communities that do and call them names from his ivory tower within his protected middle class enclave.
He`s not getting the sack, he has just secured his position further within the terminally woke BBC and secured his future with the next activist corporation that will employ him while no doubt claiming "he was forced out the BBC" when he departs them for a more lucrative contract.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 9 Mar 13:55
As I understand it he isn`t an employee of the BBC, he just has a contract with them as he does with other media companies he works for.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Thu 9 Mar 14:02
Perhaps if he had given BJ a loan he could have been director of the BBC?š¤
Meanwhile Kuenssberg and Fiona Bruce continue their propaganda unheeded!š”
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Thu 9 Mar 14:48
He`s contracted to the BBC not an employee as such so his comments on social media are justified as personal views on world subjects.
So long as he doesn`t stray into politics while working with the BBC, they can`t really do anything.
Of course they can end his contract which they probably will do when it`s up mind you.
His views comparing the corrupt tory regime to Nazi Germany were in reference, not to the war but the years leading up to it and the persecution and dehumanising of immigrants and migrants in general.
I`d say justified as well.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein PƤckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 9 Mar 15:39
A nice put-down from Lineker to the Leader of the House, Penny Mordaunt, after she`d used a footballing metaphor comparing him and the Labour Party :-
`Thank you for mentioning me in your clumsy analogy. Iām just happy to have been better in the 6 yard box than you are at the dispatch box. Best wishes.`
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Thu 9 Mar 17:00
The Nazis never kicked anyone out, they just exterminated or persecuted those who they considered contaminated the purity of the race, not just the Jews; the mentally ill and handicapped children, political opponents, religious leaders, any of the awkward type who wouldnāt conform
Lineker is descended from those who fought to allow him free speech and be a pr*k making the ludicrous comparisons he came out with.
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Thu 9 Mar 17:08
Quote:
Perhaps if he had given BJ a loan he could have been director of the BBC?š¤
Meanwhile Kuenssberg and Fiona Bruce continue their propaganda unheeded!š”
So the director General is claimed to be a Conservative, after a long list of non conservatives, surrounded in various posts by people who obviously are not conservatives.
Kuenssberg`s "crime" seems to be getting on well with people of every party and suggesting trying to overturn the biggest democratic vote in the history of our country might not be looked on favourably by future generations (Something similar to what Peston said while Fiona Bruce`s failings is to be married to a conservative.
Having worked for the corporation I and many like minded workers knew we had to keep our political leanings to ourself, if you did not subscribe to the Men=bad women=good, white=evil black=oppressed, questioning climate change=blasphemy, Brexit-Trump=Hitler, Abortion=virtuous group think you would be ostracised.
The whole place is like some student politics hellhole where critical thinking is an anathema and logic an alien concept.
And for those who favour Scottish independence, it will never support you, not because it cares about the UK, but because it would be subject to separation and a loss of power if it ever happened.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Thu 9 Mar 17:42
My OP was a question, to see what fellow Pars fans made of Lineker`s tweets and the BBC`s reaction.
I`m no Tory, but I thought comparing this Government to the pre-WW2 Nazis was a bit OTT. That doesn`t completely invalidate his sentiments, which are laudible in my humble one.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Tad Allagash
Date: Thu 9 Mar 19:53
I find it weird that Lineker has no strong opinions on football - in which heās spent his whole life and make it to the very top - and yet he seems full of opinions in areas where he has no expertise or experience whatsoever.
If heād taken a stand over Qatar rather than trousering the money, then he mightāve had more credibility here.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Thu 9 Mar 20:47
I think he criticised the human rights abuse in Qatar before and during the World Cup without any BBC intervention?
Yet when he criticises human rights in the UK he is ostracised!
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Thu 9 Mar 21:25
Lineker`s comments are spot on. It`s telling the the UK Government don`t like someone employed by their mouthpiece holding them to account.
The UK Government are desperate to up the rhetoric to appeal to the many right wing racists who vote for them
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Topic Originator: Tad Allagash
Date: Thu 9 Mar 21:40
Ostracised? If being paid Ā£1.35 million of licence payers (i.e. taxpayers) is being ostracised, then I hope Iām ostracised soon.
The very fact that heās (rightly) allowed to criticise the government without men in jackboots turning up at his door kind of proves weāre not living in Nazi Germany though, does it not?
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Thu 9 Mar 22:11
He was comparing the current UK government with the early days of the nazi regime. Before they went full "masks off." So no jack booted stormtroopers yet. It was a comparison with a degree of subtlety to it that it seems our Tory posters simply can`t grasp.
Or perhaps they are simply ignoring it in their effort to avoid discussing the fact that our government wants to prevent victims of oppression from seeking political asylum for political reasons whilst using the fact that other, separate, individuals are abusing the system as an excuse to lump all of them into some amorphous lump of evil.
So, is it remeniscent of the early days of Nazi Germany when a government deliberately demonises minority groups as being detrimental to national prosperity and security?
Yip.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: Tad Allagash
Date: Thu 9 Mar 22:40
Nazi comparisons are rarely āsubtleā. They are the go-to comparison for the clueless.
Still, if Lineker wants to trivialise the holocaust, then Iād still defend his right to do so. But Iād also defend the rights of license payers who donāt want to be forced to contribute to his exorbitant pay packet. Seem fair?
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Topic Originator: Socks
Date: Thu 9 Mar 23:08
I don`t see much wrong with his comments, and find the policy announcement he is criticising to be utterly weird.
If the government really want to stop dangerous channel crossings in small boats, they should make it easy to claim asylum from outside the UK and to enter the country by legal means. Their policy actively encourages these crossings, so it`s pathetic to then demonise vulnerable people for making them when it`s the government`s fault that they happen at all. Given that context, Gary Lineker`s comments don`t seem unreasonable to me. And he is quite clearly not trying to trivialise the holocaust.
On the aspect of his views being embarrassing for the BBC, again I don`t see why they should be. It might be a different story if he was discussing it while broadcasting, but he`s surely entitled to express his views when he`s not on TV. Or are we saying that it`s unacceptable for anyone who ever appears on BBC to express political views at any time? Yes, there`s a line that can be crossed if someone is promoting hateful behaviour but this does no such thing.
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Topic Originator: parsfan
Date: Thu 9 Mar 23:11
Quote:
Parboiled, Thu 9 Mar 17:00
The Nazis never kicked anyone out, they just exterminated or persecuted those who they considered contaminated the purity of the race, not just the Jews; the mentally ill and handicapped children, political opponents, religious leaders, any of the awkward type who wouldnāt conform
Lineker is descended from those who fought to allow him free speech and be a pr*k making the ludicrous comparisons he came out with.
They did plan to deport all the Jews to Madagascar at one point - any modern day similarities come to mind?
Ah, the old "people fought and died for your right to free speech, so don`t you dare exercise it" argument.
Edit: predictive text.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
Post Edited (Fri 10 Mar 09:24)
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Fri 10 Mar 09:10
Quote:
Tad Allagash, Thu 9 Mar 22:40
Nazi comparisons are rarely āsubtleā. They are the go-to comparison for the clueless.
Still, if Lineker wants to trivialise the holocaust, then Iād still defend his right to do so. But Iād also defend the rights of license payers who donāt want to be forced to contribute to his exorbitant pay packet. Seem fair?
The subtlety lies in the fact that the era he is referencing is a period, just before there was a holocaust to trivialise, when the Nazis were ramping up their rhetoric, testing the water, and "merely" demonising their chosen pariah.
He is pointing out that the Nazis didn`t immediately start murdering innocents, they had to first convince enough Germans that they simply had to demonise these people otherwise Germany would suffer.
Parboiled, you are forgetting that the greatest generation sacrificed itself to defeat fascism, not justify it.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
Post Edited (Fri 10 Mar 09:12)
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Fri 10 Mar 10:32
Well Fiona Bruce has trumped Gaty with her quote on Question Time last night:-
QUOTE OF THE DAY: āStanley Johnson only broke his wifeās nose onceā¦it was a one offā¦ā - Fiona Bruce, @BBC Question Time chair.
That should appeal to the die hard Tories, not so much to those only murdered once!š”
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 10 Mar 11:02
I can`t quite get my head round some of the posts on here. The logic some use to dismiss Lineker`s comments are unreal - some don`t like him as a person, others are pointing to his salary and that he doesn`t live in a council house.....
Since when did such considerations determine whether an opinion expressed by someone had merit or not?
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: doctordandruff
Date: Fri 10 Mar 11:42
Comparing things to Nazi`s is a cheap and insensitive way to make a point. The British government are many things, but they are not Fascists.
In fact, maybe we need to be more like the Nazi`s. Invest in infrastructure and our armed forces, they both need it. Increase help to our farmers, make kids do more physical exercise and sign up to social clubs. Great. Get them off their phones.
Too far maybe, but it`s easy to make a political point and invoke the Nazis. It`s pathetic.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 10 Mar 12:44
"In fact, maybe we need to be more like the Nazi`s"
And that`s enough of this thread for me.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Fri 10 Mar 12:53
Quote:
Tad Allagash, Thu 9 Mar 22:40
Still, if Lineker wants to trivialise the holocaust, then Iād still defend his right to do so. But Iād also defend the rights of license payers who donāt want to be forced to contribute to his exorbitant pay packet. Seem fair?
If you think the holocaust was in the 30ās then you should get back to school, if you are already aware of the full period then you seem to be trivialising the holocaust yourself
Post Edited (Fri 10 Mar 16:06)
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Topic Originator: parsfan
Date: Fri 10 Mar 13:10
Quote:
doctordandruff, Fri 10 Mar 11:42
Comparing things to Nazi`s is a cheap and insensitive way to make a point. The British government are many things, but they are not Fascists.
Maybe not, but many of the things they have been doing, trying or wanting to do are things that would have to be done on the road to a fascist state.
It might not lead there imminently but, unstopped, it`s only a matter of time. I don`t have a lot of faith in Starmer reversing the tide either.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Fri 10 Mar 13:15
I wonder if the objection to contributing to Linekerās enormous salary could lead to a licence fee rebellion?
Has anybody ever cancelled their licence? Get done for/or got away with it?
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 10 Mar 13:16
Ok I said I`m out but I`m back.
The Holocaust, according to some historians at least, could be said to have been between 1933-45. When the Nazis gained full control in Germany the mass extermination of a group of people defined by genetic heritage did begin. That group was the disabled. That`s why what many of us think of the holocaust as being, the industrial murder of the European Jewish population, is often referred to by Jews themselves as Shoah which is the Hebrew term for the Holocaust.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 10 Mar 13:57
Maybe Braverman should have chosen her words more carefully when explaining government policy in this area. Talking about an `invasion` and her anticipated joy at seeing a plane-load of asylum seekers taking off for Rwanda was about as subtle as a half-brick. She`s one of these people who likes to talk tough but doesn`t like it when someone uses the same tactics on her.
Are people seriously suggesting that people should withhold their licence fee when someone working for the BBC makes a political comment they don`t like?
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 10 Mar 14:05
The BBC is basically anti whatever someone thinks. They are pro tory, anti snp, left leaning and full of woke liberal fascists.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Fri 10 Mar 16:07
Doctordandruff is obviously ignoring the state of German infrastructure in 1945, when the consequences of the Nazi policies were fully realised.
Sure, you can unite people behind a political ideology by ramping up rhetoric which demonise those who are most vulnerable or most different from them, but you can`t stop ramping, you can`t pull back on the vitriol or your bubble bursts and everyone sees the naked emperor.
If you try to inspire people with hatred it can only go one way.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
Post Edited (Fri 10 Mar 16:09)
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 10 Mar 16:10
When I was young and innocent/ naive, I used to believe that the BBC was completely independent and impartial, but more and more now, it`s increasingly obvious that they are answerable to whichever party is in power and dare not be too critical for fear of being labelled anti this or that, or even losing their job. How did the Director General of the BBC get the job again? Who`s his pal? Boris Johnson? He`ll be completely impartial then?
Much as I feel Lineker`s analogy was a step too far, I admire his courage for speaking out. He doesn`t risk losing his job but I`m sure he will have been warned about his future conduct.
For some reason, this reminds me of Michael Stewart being suspended and reprimanded by BBC Scotland for saying something a certain Glasgow club took exception to.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Fri 10 Mar 16:44
Gary Lineker is to step back from presenting Match of the Day until an agreement is reached on his social media use - BBC statement.
It follows an impartiality row over comments he made criticising the government`s new asylum policy.
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Fri 10 Mar 17:11
As usual, people seem to be reading the Daily Mail comments section rather than what was actually said.
Lineker said that the UK takes a lot smaller percentage than the majority of other European nations - this is fact; the UN say do, the EU say so, the Government`s own statistics say so, I say so. It is fact.
He went on to say that some of the language used was reminiscent of the language used in 1930s Germany. Notice that he never used the term Nazis, never mentioned the Holocaust (which wasn`t perpetrated in the 1930s, it was into the 1940s before the Nazis had their famous meeting to find a "Final Solution to the Jewish Problem"), never said that the government were Nazis, or fascists, or anything like that. He said the "language used" was like that used in that period and in that place.
Again, this is fact. Braverman talks of "invasion", a "swarm", about "criminals", the current government is trying to dehumanised these asylum seekers, and in the future they will not let immigrants have access to full legal rights (in particular about Modern Slavery legislation). At the tail end of the Weimar Republic, as the Nazis were starting to gain power, they (and other both far-roght and far-left parties) were trying to blame outsiders for the loss of World War I, the shame of the Versailles treaty and the hyper-inflation in the 1920s and 30s. They spoke of "invasions" and "swarms", they tried to dehumanise minorities (Jews most famously but also the Roma community, homosexuals, Arabs, and the mentally ill) and began to strip them of legal rights. Again, Lineker seems on the money here, regardless of your opinion of him.
TOWK asks if this is a left/right thing; clearly it is. Another freelancer on the BBC, Lord Sugar, routinely tweets questionable material, but nothing is said about his impartiality. Why? Is it because MotD is more popular than the Apprentice? Or is it because Lineker is seen as "left" (he`s really not; he`s as bland a centrist as you`d likely ever meet) and the right wing press want to produce a Dead Cat so we`re talking about this rather than a terrible, probably illegal policy?
In any event, Lineker didn`t say anything during his MotD slot, he isn`t part of their news department, he was allowed by the BBC to make a political statement at the beginning of their World Cup coverage, and he hasn`t said anything defamatory, illegal, racist, homophobic, sexist, etc. He`s well within his.rigjts to tweet what he did and this is clearly a nothing story pushed by the right wing media to try and convince more gammons they are on the right side of the current culture war.
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Topic Originator: auldpar
Date: Fri 10 Mar 17:22
An own goal by the BBC. They need him more than he needs them. Right-wing snowflakes - who would have thought?
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 10 Mar 17:33
The BBC are impartial - aye right.
ETA. Great post by Kelty above.
Not your average Sunday League player.
Post Edited (Fri 10 Mar 19:34)
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Fri 10 Mar 17:39
Quote:
kelty_par, Fri 10 Mar 17:11
As usual, people seem to be reading the Daily Mail comments section rather than what was actually said.
Lineker said that the UK takes a lot smaller percentage than the majority of other European nations - this is fact; the UN say do, the EU say so, the Government`s own statistics say so, I say so. It is fact.
He went on to say that some of the language used was reminiscent of the language used in 1930s Germany. Notice that he never used the term Nazis, never mentioned the Holocaust (which wasn`t perpetrated in the 1930s, it was into the 1940s before the Nazis had their famous meeting to find a "Final Solution to the Jewish Problem"), never said that the government were Nazis, or fascists, or anything like that. He said the "language used" was like that used in that period and in that place.
Again, this is fact. Braverman talks of "invasion", a "swarm", about "criminals", the current government is trying to dehumanised these asylum seekers, and in the future they will not let immigrants have access to full legal rights (in particular about Modern Slavery legislation). At the tail end of the Weimar Republic, as the Nazis were starting to gain power, they (and other both far-roght and far-left parties) were trying to blame outsiders for the loss of World War I, the shame of the Versailles treaty and the hyper-inflation in the 1920s and 30s. They spoke of "invasions" and "swarms", they tried to dehumanise minorities (Jews most famously but also the Roma community, homosexuals, Arabs, and the mentally ill) and began to strip them of legal rights. Again, Lineker seems on the money here, regardless of your opinion of him.
TOWK asks if this is a left/right thing; clearly it is. Another freelancer on the BBC, Lord Sugar, routinely tweets questionable material, but nothing is said about his impartiality. Why? Is it because MotD is more popular than the Apprentice? Or is it because Lineker is seen as "left" (he`s really not; he`s as bland a centrist as you`d likely ever meet) and the right wing press want to produce a Dead Cat so we`re talking about this rather than a terrible, probably illegal policy?
In any event, Lineker didn`t say anything during his MotD slot, he isn`t part of their news department, he was allowed by the BBC to make a political statement at the beginning of their World Cup coverage, and he hasn`t said anything defamatory, illegal, racist, homophobic, sexist, etc. He`s well within his.rigjts to tweet what he did and this is clearly a nothing story pushed by the right wing media to try and convince more gammons they are on the right side of the current culture war.
Excellent post
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Fri 10 Mar 17:39
Ian Wright refusing to appear on MOTD this weekend in solidarity with Lineker.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Fri 10 Mar 17:41
Quote:
sadindiefreak, Fri 10 Mar 17:39
Ian Wright refusing to appear on MOTD this weekend in solidarity with Lineker.
Yeah, let`s see who else has got the balls?š¤ā½ļøā½ļø
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Fri 10 Mar 17:42
Is it just me that sees the irony of Braverman and Patel being less than sympathetic to the plight of refugees ?
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Fri 10 Mar 17:43
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Fri 10 Mar 17:41
Quote:
sadindiefreak, Fri 10 Mar 17:39
Ian Wright refusing to appear on MOTD this weekend in solidarity with Lineker.
Yeah, let`s see who else has got the balls?š¤ā½ļøā½ļø
It would be brilliant if everyone and their dug told the Beeb to ram it.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Fri 10 Mar 18:06
Quote:
Lineker said that the UK takes a lot smaller percentage than the majority of other European nations - this is fact; the UN say do, the EU say so, the Government`s own statistics say so, I say so. It is fact.
Which country in the EU & UK has the most successful applications for asylum at both initial stage and appeal stage?
Try and guess.
Because that is the most important statistic huh? Not how many show up but how many are accepted?
Also which country interprets the Geneva Convention mort restrictively in the EU and UK.
Which country in the EU & UK has the most generous benefit system to refugees and those seeking asylum?
I`ve never bought the Daily Mail in my life, for the same reason I`d never buy the Guardian.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Fri 10 Mar 18:15
That is a superb post kelty par
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Fri 10 Mar 18:42
Shearer pulled out as well
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Fri 10 Mar 18:48
If Le Tissier and Shilton end up presenting this I`m definitely buying a TV licence and starting watching.
Gary Neville must be pissed he works for Sky and not be able to join in with the massive virtue signalling.
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Topic Originator: allparone
Date: Fri 10 Mar 18:53
Quote:
Bletchley_Par, Fri 10 Mar 18:48
If Le Tissier and Shilton end up presenting this I`m definitely buying a TV licence and starting watching.
Gary Neville must be pissed he works for Sky and not be able to join in with the massive virtue signalling.
If they do, it will be the first time that the combined IQ of the presenters is lower than the goal count in the EPL this weekend.
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Fri 10 Mar 18:58
Yeah Lineker, Shearer and Wright are pretty much magi-adjacent.
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Topic Originator: BA
Date: Fri 10 Mar 19:03
Hopefully the BBC take this opportunity to completely shake things up, Lineker has been getting away with it for far too long now and hosting MOTD shouldnāt be a ājob for lifeā for him, Shearer has zero banter too - theyāre an utterly dreadful watch.
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Fri 10 Mar 19:07
"Which country in the EU & UK has the most successful applications for asylum at both initial stage and appeal stage?"
The very fact that most asylum seekers have it granted proves that Patel, Braverman etc are talking garbage when they say that its criminals and people who aren`t fleeing persecution, war or famine; you`re actually making the opposite argument to what you think!
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Topic Originator: Jeffery
Date: Fri 10 Mar 19:09
I expect Jenas will step in.
Well done to Lineker and those standing in solidarity.
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Fri 10 Mar 19:21
Quote:
you`re actually making the opposite argument to what you think!
My only "argument" is that the asylum system should be there for the genuine asylum seeker and those who abuse the system be deported.
That`s it, that`s my argument.
Anyone arguing against that stance is anti-refugee in my opinion, other opinions are available and I`ve no doubt many will come from those wiser and better than informed than myself, or you.
As to those asking why Patel and Braverman are at the forefront of this, first I like to call you misogynistic, racist, muh sexisms and stuff and then point out people abusing the asylum system to skip the entry queue to our country would probably made their families (and mine) who fled genuine persecution to this country more difficult.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Fri 10 Mar 20:12
How did most of those successful applicants for asylum arrive in the UK do we think?
Do you think they got on a plane in Damascus with their passports and visas?
What are some examples of ways for a victim of oppression to legitimately enter the UK to seek asylum?
EDIT: It is quite telling that Bletchley continues to paint all asylum seekers arriving from France as being illegitimate in their claims of fleeing oppression. Some probably are, but certainly not all.
Post Edited (Fri 10 Mar 20:15)
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Fri 10 Mar 20:21
Will be interesting to see who actually turns up on Saturday nights MOTD
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Fri 10 Mar 20:25
Topic Originator: Wotsit like
Date: Fri 10 Mar 20:12
EDIT: It is quite telling that Bletchley continues to paint all asylum seekers arriving from France as being illegitimate in their claims of fleeing oppression. Some probably are, but certainly not all.
I`ve never mentioned France, not once.
And I shall repeat what my last post says which is.
My only "argument" is that the asylum system should be there for the genuine asylum seeker and those who abuse the system be deported.
Which is in direct opposition to claim that I am painting "all asylum seekers arriving from France as being illegitimate".
Illegal immigrants and genuine asylum seekers I`m sure come in by many directions an by many methods of travel.
Either you can`t read very well or you are indulging in an ad-hominem attack on me.
You must do better.
Post Edited (Fri 10 Mar 20:29)
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Topic Originator: Big T Par
Date: Fri 10 Mar 20:30
Quote:
Jeffery, Fri 10 Mar 19:09
I expect Jenas will step in.
Well done to Lineker and those standing in solidarity.
He`s said no as well.
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Topic Originator: BA
Date: Fri 10 Mar 20:39
opic Originator: Big T Par like
Date: Fri 10 Mar 20:30
Quote:
Jeffery, Fri 10 Mar 19:09
I expect Jenas will step in.
Well done to Lineker and those standing in solidarity.
He`s said no as well.
Surely the others are sealing their fate at the BBC then refusing to work?! I wonder what their contracts are like - surely they just canāt refuse to work if asked to (I know I wouldnāt get away with that). Jenas has the One Show gig as well to consider which is a big one to have.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Fri 10 Mar 20:53
My only "argument" is that the asylum system should be there for the genuine asylum seeker and those who abuse the system be deported.
That`s it, that`s my argument.
It`s saying that in the context of the current UK government threatening to remove the right to ever seek asylum in this country as a result of the way in which they were forced, by previous UK governments` removal of legitimate means of seeking asylum, to arrive.
by many directions
Tell me about some of them, because I can`t find them and UK government ministers, when asked, have been unable to provide any examples of how a Syrian (for example) being oppressed by Assad (for another example) could legitimately (i.e. within current UK immigration law) and easily (ie within the reach of an oppressed citizen in a war zone) seek asylum in the UK. The only means open to the vast majority of Syrians is by boat from France.
In arguing in favour of UK government migration policy, you are arguing that this is fine.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Fri 10 Mar 21:00
`I can`t quite get my head round some of the posts on here. The logic some use to dismiss Lineker`s comments are unreal - some don`t like him as a person, others are pointing to his salary and that he doesn`t live in a council house...`
If Gary Lineker did decide to live in a council house then he would be lambasted by the same people for virtue signalling, not paying his way and denying a house to some needy asylum seekers. He`s damned either way.
Kelty Par has said everything else I would want to.
sammer
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Fri 10 Mar 21:01
Great Post there by Kelty Par. Fair play to Wright, Shearer and Jenas for standing up with Lineker here too.
The UK Government must be loving this though, all the media are all over a football pundits tweets rather than focusing on their disgraceful immigration plans.
It`s telling to see the posters on here that are piling on to Lineker, as expected, exactly the ones that have not an once of human compassion and would have been queuing up to join the Nazi Party in 1930s Germany
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Fri 10 Mar 21:05
Each to their own.
For yonks Iāve always recorded MOTD , not because I dislike any of the pundits, but I just want to see the footie and skip the chatter.
Post Edited (Fri 10 Mar 21:11)
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Fri 10 Mar 21:10
Has it reached the point now where agreeing to appear on MOTD will be a political act in and of itself, and therefore a fireable offense?
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Fri 10 Mar 21:11
Quote:
Topic Originator: Wotsit like
Date: Fri 10 Mar 20:53
My only "argument" is that the asylum system should be there for the genuine asylum seeker and those who abuse the system be deported.
That`s it, that`s my argument.
It`s saying that in the context of the current UK government threatening to remove the right to ever seek asylum in this country as a result of the way in which they were forced, by previous UK governments` removal of legitimate means of seeking asylum, to arrive.
by many directions
Tell me about some of them, because I can`t find them and UK government ministers, when asked, have been unable to provide any examples of how a Syrian (for example) being oppressed by Assad (for another example) could legitimately (i.e. within current UK immigration law) and easily (ie within the reach of an oppressed citizen in a war zone) seek asylum in the UK. The only means open to the vast majority of Syrians is by boat from France.
It seems this government, oops I mean this Tory government are the first to allow people to claim asylum in France rather than risk life and limb crossing the channel.
So saving lives and taking money out the hands of evil people smugglers and no doubt taking the pressure of our lifeboat/coastguard services. Also preventing those seeking asylum being housed in hotels or army barracks.
Seems like a good idea to me and could have saved many lives had it been done years ago.
What are your thoughts on that?
Post Edited (Fri 10 Mar 21:11)
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Fri 10 Mar 21:17
That was announced today presumably? We have the UK (it was a labour government doing similar stuff at one stage - I`m not either flavour of neoliberal) government`s word that it will do anything t help. Especially not those who will be permanently banned from seeking asylum because they naĆÆvely trusted people traffickers.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Fri 10 Mar 21:21
BBC just announced MOTD will have no presenters or pundits this week.
Would love to see commentators refuse to take part as well.
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Fri 10 Mar 21:23
The article appeared in the Guardian 5 hours ago so I presume it was today.
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Topic Originator: allparone
Date: Fri 10 Mar 21:45
In a nutshellā¦.
āThe fact is everybody loses, everything is diminished, when it is in the gift of the government of the day to decide who gets to say what on issues of basic human kindness. What we have here is the de facto state censorship of a man who says things like āand now to Goodisonā in between footage of people playing football, for the crime of having freelance opinions on social media.ā
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Fri 10 Mar 21:53
All the UK government have to do is set up a "clearance centre " in France where refugees can be vetted.
Seems this has been suggested quite a few times, but Westminster hasn`t taken up the offer.
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Topic Originator: Tad Allagash
Date: Fri 10 Mar 21:58
Less punditry on MOTD means more football. Iāve never understood why we need pundits on a highlights show.
Itās different with live football when youāve got to kill time pre-match and at halftime, but having pundits talk about a match they didnāt even attend seems a waste of airtime.
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Fri 10 Mar 22:03
Quote:
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Fri 10 Mar 21:53
All the UK government have to do is set up a "clearance centre " in France where refugees can be vetted.
Seems this has been suggested quite a few times, but Westminster hasn`t taken up the offer.
What you mean like the centre announced today and in this thread 3 or so posts ago?
Post Edited (Fri 10 Mar 22:04)
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Topic Originator: EastEndBoy
Date: Fri 10 Mar 23:01
Quote:
Bletchley_Par, Fri 10 Mar 22:03
Quote:
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Fri 10 Mar 21:53
All the UK government have to do is set up a "clearance centre " in France where refugees can be vetted.
Seems this has been suggested quite a few times, but Westminster hasn`t taken up the offer.
What you mean like the centre announced today and in this thread 3 or so posts ago?
They`ve been trying to `stop the boats` for years. Why did they let countless souls perish in the channel before coming to this conclusion?
...ken?
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 10 Mar 23:05
You`ve got to assume that it`s more that it`s Lineker that is saying these things more than what it is he is actually saying. Nobody can seriously think that the BBC is pro Conservative government. I enjoy watching Frankie Boyle and his New World Order programme. It can be outrageously funny at times but is always vehemently anti tory views expressed by almost every guest on the show.
Strangely Lineker would have been closer saying that the language being used today in the UK is more like the language being used in 1930s UK. There was some opposition in the press to the influx of Jews from the continent and many were turned away if it couldn`t be shown that they could support themselves financially. It would be nice to think that had the true intentions of the Nazis been fully understood then more would have been taken in although Britain did accept more refugees than any other nation in 1939.
That was then though and this now and I do wonder about what is going on in the EU and especially France that so many are willing to risk their lives crossing a hazardous stretch of water to come to this fascist hell hole.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Fri 10 Mar 23:38
Quote:
Topic Originator: EastEndBoy like
Date: Fri 10 Mar 23:01
Quote:
Bletchley_Par, Fri 10 Mar 22:03
Quote:
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Fri 10 Mar 21:53
They`ve been trying to `stop the boats` for years. Why did they let countless souls perish in the channel before coming to this conclusion?
I don`t know, why the British government up until this point has not built a clearance centre on French soil, I guess you`d have to ask them and the French government.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 11 Mar 08:21
6 commentators have now stood down and apparently some players have said they will not do post-match interviews.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sat 11 Mar 08:58
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64918162
I`m thinking there must be a fair chance of this thread being moved to the Politics Forum. It`s uncanny how the posters who are laying into Lineker are the same ones who regularly defend this incompetent and indefensible Tory government.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sat 11 Mar 09:13
The right wing press have long had it in for the BBC and this is playing right into their hands. They`d like noting more than the national broadcaster to be more and more marginalised so that they have great control over the narratives. The beeb were put in a very difficult position by Lineker not honouring the terms of his highly lucrative contract.
I do suspect that the former England captain (currently in court over not paying 4.5 million in tax,up the common man eh Gary?) is though not upset at this turn of events. His contract was supposedly close to being up anyway and was unlikely to be renewed and he can now bow out and with his status of `national treasure` seemingly assured now can get a job at another network on even greater financial terms.
Going forward hopefully the BBC can use this to reform the motd format and save millions of pounds each year by not employing multi millionaire former players to tell us what we can already see.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sat 11 Mar 09:21
Hitler was elected to power in 1933, thereafter the Nazi regime took control of the apparatus of State under his dictatorship - the systematic persecution of Jews started almost immediately.
The Nazis also targeted the mentally and physically disabled, gypsies, political opponents etc. and others that didnāt meet the Ayran image.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 11 Mar 09:26
I don`t think the theory that Lineker did this so he he could leave the BBC with his reputation intact stacks up. He still has two years left on his MOTD contract apparently. I read it in the Guardian so it must be right.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sat 11 Mar 09:43
Later on the year BT Sport is being bought over by an American media conglomerate and will become TNT Sport. They`ve got quite a bit of money to throw around by all accounts. Wonder who they might get to host their live products.....
The likes of rabble rousing Tommy (Yaxley-Lennon) Robinson, countless Russian propaganda bots, and numerous right wing newspaper columnists have been telling us for years that the BBC isn`t impartial. Now it seems like we all agree with them and the BBC becomes the lighting conductor for all the angst and frustration of the governments critics.
If only the BBC was scrapped and could some nice billionaires come along and fund some impartial programming will be the next call.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 11 Mar 11:03
Sympathetic support is now being given by presenters of Football Focus and Final Score.
Good news for fans of Bargain Hunt; it`s replacing Football Focus!
Post Edited (Sat 11 Mar 11:20)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 11 Mar 12:08
I really wish the BBC was paywalled and people didn`t need a stupid TV licence just to watch live TV generally.
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Topic Originator: Tad Allagash
Date: Sat 11 Mar 13:09
jake89 wrote:
> I really wish the BBC was paywalled and people didn`t need a
> stupid TV licence just to watch live TV generally.
Yes, the licence fee made sense in 1955 when the BBC was the only channel you could get, but seems ridiculous today with countless streaming services.
Give viewers (or advertisers) the option of voting with their wallet and all this controversy goes away.
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Sat 11 Mar 13:27
One channel, b/w, started at 1700 and ended before midnight with the National Anthem..
And if you didnāt have an outside aerial someone had to stand on a chair and wave an inside one aboot to get a picture
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Sat 11 Mar 15:01
`I really wish the BBC was paywalled and people didn`t need a stupid TV licence just to watch live TV generally.`
That will be music to the ears of neo-conservatives who want to abolish not just public broadcasting but publicly funded education and the NHS. Why should you have to pay a stupid NI contribution when you can shop around?
sammer
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 11 Mar 16:14
Quote:
sammer, Sat 11 Mar 15:01
`I really wish the BBC was paywalled and people didn`t need a stupid TV licence just to watch live TV generally.`
That will be music to the ears of neo-conservatives who want to abolish not just public broadcasting but publicly funded education and the NHS. Why should you have to pay a stupid NI contribution when you can shop around?
So you`ll be agreeing that the BBC are accurately reporting events in Russia/Ukraine and aren`t just a Tory mouthpiece then?
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 11 Mar 18:57
MOTD will only last 20 minutes and Sportscene on BBC Scotland will also be affected.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sat 11 Mar 21:45
I wonder how many people would see this differently if it was a Chinese or Russian state owned media organisation had sacked or suspended a presenter for criticising a controvercial government policy?
Or if the BBC had sacked Clarkson or Sugar for one of the dozens (hundreds?) of politically-charged columns and tweets in their name?
Alan Sugar was presenting on the BBC whilst he was an active member of the government was he not?
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Sat 11 Mar 22:56
`So you`ll be agreeing that the BBC are accurately reporting events in Russia/Ukraine and aren`t just a Tory mouthpiece then`
Obviously not. The BBC failed to reflect public pinion during the Falklands War and the Miners` Strike of 1984. Its false footage of Orgreave from 1984 is now part of any decent media studies course. I remember it well. Its coverage of the Ukraine conflict is even more partisan and will be examined critically in years to come. The BBC lack of interest in the Nord Stream 2 explosion was exposed by Seymour Hersh and has since caused Sholtz to visit Washington to be given an off ramp about `pro Ukrainians.` Most of the world is laughing but the BBC remains mute.
But don`t throw the baby out with the bath water. A public service broadcaster is as essential as the NHS and sets standards for public discourse. I still have six grandchildren in Scotland and do not want them consigned to neo conservative consumerism. We will always complain about bias of course, but we need to have something to found our bias upon. And that is a publicly funded state broadcaster.
The alternative is Americana and a dumbed down population eager for the horrors of permanent imperial wars, racist executions by the police and a school shooting every month. Lineker spoke well.
sammer
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Topic Originator: Tad Allagash
Date: Sun 12 Mar 00:11
āDumbed-downā American commercial TV has given us The Sopranos, The Wire, Breaking Bad, and Curb Your Enthusiasm.
Our highbrow publicly funded BBC has given us such classics as Jimāll Fix It, Noelās House Party, Mrs Brownās Boys, The One Show, and Strictly Come Dancing.
Lots of bath water to throw out - not many babies.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 12 Mar 00:56
Peaky Blinders, Time, Line of Duty, Happy Valley. Hit BBC shows of the last ten years. If you want to go further back you`ve got Fawlty Towers, Only Fools, Porridge, House of Cards, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy as well as numerous Attenborough documentaries and many more besides.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: nazpar
Date: Sun 12 Mar 03:05
A few of the posts on here mention Nazi Germany ..Gary lineker`s tweet never mentioned Nazi Germany .he said 1930`s Germany .I think he carefully avoided the Nazi word
nazpar
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 12 Mar 07:53
Okay, I take it back, we should continue to fund a heavily biased state broadcaster under the pretence that it *could* be impartial.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sun 12 Mar 08:18
Quote:
jake89, Sun 12 Mar 07:53
Okay, I take it back, we should continue to fund a heavily biased state broadcaster under the pretence that it *could* be impartial.
Waddayamean, Dean? The BBC is a bastion of impartiality and would never bow to pressure from any group of politicians.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 12 Mar 08:47
Can we start having examples of BBC output not being impartial? I could give many links of it being rabidly anti tory, especially from comedians.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sun 12 Mar 09:26
We shouldn`t be forced to pay for any TV channel, biased or not. It`s 2023. Times have changed
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sun 12 Mar 09:35
Quote:
nazpar, Sun 12 Mar 03:05
A few of the posts on here mention Nazi Germany ..Gary lineker`s tweet never mentioned Nazi Germany .he said 1930`s Germany .I think he carefully avoided the Nazi word
So who was in government from 1933 onwards ?
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sun 12 Mar 09:36
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Sun 12 Mar 00:56
Peaky Blinders, Time, Line of Duty, Happy Valley. Hit BBC shows of the last ten years. If you want to go further back you`ve got Fawlty Towers, Only Fools, Porridge, House of Cards, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy as well as numerous Attenborough documentaries and many more besides.
What have the BBC done for usā¦ā¦ā¦.Life of Brian style !!!
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sun 12 Mar 10:13
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Sun 12 Mar 08:47
Can we start having examples of BBC output not being impartial? I could give many links of it being rabidly anti tory, especially from comedians.
This isn`t about output, TOWK. It`s about the way the BBC has treated one of its employees, because the Home Secretary was angered and embarrassed by his tweet. The PM should be embarrassed for bringing her back into the cabinet. She almost succeeds in making Priti Patel look warm and cuddly..... šØ
Public support for Lineker is overwhelming and the BBC has been roundly criticised from all quarters. Yes, there are some who don`t like Lineker and are envious of his considerable salary and are letting it colour their judgement, but they appear to be a small minority.
It`s hard to escape the conclusion that those in high places at the BBC are good pals with their counterparts in Westminster and have been leaned on to discipline this very naughty boy.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sun 12 Mar 10:39
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Sun 12 Mar 08:47
Can we start having examples of BBC output not being impartial? I could give many links of it being rabidly anti tory, especially from comedians.
They sacked a presenter for criticising a government policy?
It's also interesting that their chief political correspondents always turn out to be Tories.
And Question Time.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
Post Edited (Sun 12 Mar 10:40)
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 12 Mar 10:52
But in this thread it is very much being implied that the output is biased when in fact the output from the beeb is by and large critical of the government and quite often scathing in its manner.
Although I don`t know Lineker I wouldn`t say I am necessarily envious of the millions of pounds the BBC pay him every year but I don`t think he represents good value for the money he takes from the public purse. The fact that he maybe pays less income tax than the average punter as a percentage of his salary also irks. I`d happily see the hmrc win the case against him and claw back some of those millions.
This wasn`t a one off tweet. He has been tweeting on a weekly basis and was told to rein it in. Repeatedly. He was reminded of the editorial guidelines that he signed up to when he signed his mega millions contract. Again he was reminded of those guidelines repeatedly. Or maybe I`m wrong and he didn`t sign a contract, a legally binding agreement, that said he would abide by the BBC editorial guidelines and if so he should receive an apology from the BBC and he reinstated forthwith.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 12 Mar 11:07
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Sun 12 Mar 08:47
Can we start having examples of BBC output not being impartial? I could give many links of it being rabidly anti tory, especially from comedians.
Surely that in itself is an example of failing to be impartial? Though i`d argue comedians are different to those responsible for providing us news and current events.
In Scotland, all we need to do is look at the awfulness that is Question Time, which has been proven to invite select plants in their audience.
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Topic Originator: fcda
Date: Sun 12 Mar 11:08
Tim Davie, Director-General of the BBC is a former Conservative Party politician.
Richard Sharp, BBC chairman, is a Tory donor, former advisor to Boris and Rishi, and Rishi`s former boss when they were bankers (I said "bankers").
Sharp helped Boris (while prime minister) to secure a loan of Ā£800,000 (by putting forward a friend to act as guarantor) while he was applying for the chairman job.
Fiona Bruce, host of Question Time gets a lot of criticism for appearing biased in favour of the Tories. Her husband`s company has advertising contracts with the Tories worth millions.
Research into the guests selected to appear on Question Time and Laura Keunsberg`s show highlight significant bias towards the Tories and right wing commentators.
I like the idea of the BBC but can`t stand BBC News and politics shows because of their clear bias.
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Topic Originator: Tad Allagash
Date: Sun 12 Mar 11:29
TOWK has a point. Itās hard to argue the BBC is pro-government when they hire Frankie Boyle, Stewart Lee, and Sue Perkins.
So maybe there is more to this, and maybe Lineker wants out of his contract.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 12 Mar 11:43
There aren`t many right-wing comedians (other than politicians) to hire.
I`ve always thought the cult of the presenter is overstated. Do you think more people watch MOTD when Gary Lineker presents it rather than, say, Mark Chapman?
I don`t see what Lineker`s tax case has to do with this. For years there has been a grey area over how people like him who work for a number of employers are taxed and a few have been successful in challenging the view of HMRC.
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Topic Originator: CAPar
Date: Sun 12 Mar 11:45
Unfortunately, right wing comedy just isn`t funny. Who are they going to get, Lee Hurst?
When it comes to serious news and political chat/debate, the BBC shows demonstrable right wing bias. Analysis of shows such as Question Time and Laura Kuenssberg`s Sunday morning thing proves that they have more right wing commentators on than anyone else.
Additionally, on the news the other night the presenter was at pains to point out that Alistair Campbell works with Gary Lineker but when they have these right wing lobby groups masquerading as `think tanks` and charities from Tufton Street on, they conveniently forget to mention who they`re linked to.
And in direct comparison to Lineker, Alan Sugar gets to tweet whatever he likes about Labour, Corbyn and strikes with no comeback. BBC even dismissed a complaint about him saying he was tweeting from his own account and it was nothing to do with the BBC.
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Sun 12 Mar 12:43
I stopped watching Have I Got News for You, Mock the Week, and anything with weepy Sue Perkins - the pro Tory bias was noxious
Post Edited (Sun 12 Mar 12:51)
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sun 12 Mar 12:52
I think we need to look at the BBC as two separate entities when looking at balance.
|Yes, the drama and comedy output has a strong left-of-centre bias (the arts have always been like that - it`s the same on all channels, artists - in general - just have a left-leaning balance. Burns and Dickens spring to mind. The BBC isn`t in charge of that.)
The current affairs output is heavily biased towards backing the government of the day though - and the BBC does have control over that.
This has been the case as long as I can remember and many cases have been mentioned to back that up from Orgreave to Iraq to Menezes to Lineker with many other less egregious examples in between.
This is the organisation who had a supporter of Britain First as the person who chose the audience for Question Time during the Brexit debate years. This is the channel who can`t seem to find a Chief Political Correspondent who isn`t a Tory.
Now it is leaking into their other output as the government is very obviously putting pressure o them to police the personal views of their non-news presenters. Well, some of their presenters. The more right-leaning ones (such as Sugar and Clarkson) were fine apparently.
Funny that.
Post Edited (Sun 12 Mar 12:56)
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Sun 12 Mar 12:57
Watched MOTD this morning. I always record it anyway and skip through most of the chit chat so the absence of pundits didnāt bother me.
Apparently the viewing figures were higher than usual!
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Sun 12 Mar 13:11
Viewing figures up by 500k last night.
The last time a single person had this much influence over the BBC while simultaneously breaking it`s code of conduct was Jimmy Savile.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sun 12 Mar 13:11
Quote:
Wotsit, Sun 12 Mar 12:52
I think we need to look at the BBC as two separate entities when looking at balance.
|Yes, the drama and comedy output has a strong left-of-centre bias (the arts have always been like that - it`s the same on all channels, artists - in general - just have a left-leaning balance. Burns and Dickens spring to mind. The BBC isn`t in charge of that.)
The current affairs output is heavily biased towards backing the government of the day though - and the BBC does have control over that.
This has been the case as long as I can remember and many cases have been mentioned to back that up from Orgreave to Iraq to Menezes to Lineker with many other less egregious examples in between.
This is the organisation who had a supporter of Britain First as the person who chose the audience for Question Time during the Brexit debate years. This is the channel who can`t seem to find a Chief Political Correspondent who isn`t a Tory.
Now it is leaking into their other output as the government is very obviously putting pressure o them to police the personal views of their non-news presenters. Well, some of their presenters. The more right-leaning ones (such as Sugar and Clarkson) were fine apparently.
Funny that.
Great post, Wotsit.
Watched MOTD this morning. I always record it anyway and skip through most of the chit chat so the absence of pundits didnāt bother me.
Apparently the viewing figures were higher than usual!
Do you not think some extra folk tuned in out of curiosity? I much prefer matches with a commentary and hear what the managers have to say post match. I also record it and watch it the following morning, so I can fast forward any bits I don`t want to see.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Sun 12 Mar 13:27
Quote:
Topic Originator: GG Riva like
Date: Sun 12 Mar 13:11
Do you not think some extra folk tuned in out of curiosity?
Some would have tuned in out of curiosity.
Some would have tuned in to show the BBC "we don`t need Lineker".
Some would have refused to watch because they support him.
All a bit hard to quantify.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 12 Mar 13:59
"Quote:
Wotsit, Sun 12 Mar 12:52
I think we need to look at the BBC as two separate entities when looking at balance.
|Yes, the drama and comedy output has a strong left-of-centre bias (the arts have always been like that - it`s the same on all channels, artists - in general - just have a left-leaning balance. Burns and Dickens spring to mind. The BBC isn`t in charge of that.)
The current affairs output is heavily biased towards backing the government of the day though - and the BBC does have control over that."
The BBC certainly does have control over both of those entities. The shows that are commissioned and the way they are edited are all in the remit of people employed by the BBC. That these people commission shows, book `entertainers` and select what parts of the recordings make the final edit reflect their own political beliefs is up for debate. However the overall artistic and cultural output is very much left leaning from one of our state broadcasters and the other state broadcaster is Channel Four which, going out on a limb here, is even more left leaning than the beeb.
It`s reminiscent of 1930s Germany when the state propaganda department didn`t also control the news that was reported but also the arts and entertainment that was shown to the people to better reflect the values that the ruling party wanted to promote.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Tad Allagash
Date: Sun 12 Mar 15:58
Alan Sugar was a member of the Labour Party and one of their biggest donors for the first 10 seasons of The Apprentice - hardly āright-leaningā.
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sun 12 Mar 20:44
Heās back in his seat next week. Interesting to know what concessions have been given on either side
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sun 12 Mar 22:16
Quote:
Tad Allagash, Sun 12 Mar 15:58
Alan Sugar was a member of the Labour Party and one of their biggest donors for the first 10 seasons of The Apprentice - hardly āright-leaningā.
That does more to undermine the Labour Party`s left wing credentials than it does my my point.
Have you read his tweets? They are definitely right-leaning.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 12 Mar 23:12
Quote:
Wotsit, Sun 12 Mar 22:16
Quote:
Tad Allagash, Sun 12 Mar 15:58
Alan Sugar was a member of the Labour Party and one of their biggest donors for the first 10 seasons of The Apprentice - hardly āright-leaningā.
That does more to undermine the Labour Party`s left wing credentials than it does my my point.
Have you read his tweets? They are definitely right-leaning.
Alan Sugar has repeatedly said NOT to vote Labour. Just like Lineker, he is not bound by the BBC`s social media guidelines.
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Topic Originator: back oh the net
Date: Mon 13 Mar 03:56
Quote:
Bletchley_Par, Fri 10 Mar 22:03
Quote:
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Fri 10 Mar 21:53
All the UK government have to do is set up a "clearance centre " in France where refugees can be vetted.
Seems this has been suggested quite a few times, but Westminster hasn`t taken up the offer.
What you mean like the centre announced today and in this thread 3 or so posts ago?
Post Edited (Fri 10 Mar 22:04)
Think you are getting detention mixed up with clearance mate clearance means they will be held until their application is processed then be allowed to cross into the uk nowhere in any report I have read does it suggest thatās what this new Center is even the pro conservative telegraph calls it a detention center itās says migrants held in the Center can be HELD FOR UP TO 90 DAYS before being SENT BACK to their own country is safe to do so or the last country which they traveled if not
Dress it up how ever you like but there is **** all in any report to suggest this is a Center to speed up a migrants asylum application certainly not when language such as āstop people from coming in the first placeā ādetain themā āremove them to a safe countryā and my personal favourite āban them for life from returningā
Come on ye pars ā½ļø
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Mon 13 Mar 08:09
Think you are getting refugees fleeing persecution and danger with young fit guys from safe countries seeking a better standard of living mate
They should fast track the latter up to Glasgow where Elsie the Queen of selfies can do her swan song meet and greet photo op.
Pending assessment they could keep fit by cleaning up that smelly litter strewn dump and getting bussed around the country to repair potholes.
The Jocks are ace, diamond geezers who will take them to their hearts, and treat them like as kings. As well as providing spades a warm welcome awaits to their homes and clubs.
A word of advice to them though. Stay clear Of the whist for Indy mob, very touchy types that could deck you and pack you off back over the border if you ask how itās going...
Post Edited (Mon 13 Mar 08:38)
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Topic Originator: dover par
Date: Mon 13 Mar 09:42
Apparently the BBC are to make Lineker an apology and heāll return to the telly.
"Pressure is something you feel when you don't know what the hell you're doing."
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Mon 13 Mar 09:58
Maybe they could get him to front Newsnight. That would stop him tweeting about political issues.
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Mon 13 Mar 10:13
Gary Lineker and BBC management have reached a deal to get the presenter back on air, after the weekend`s disruption to BBC Sport schedules.
Director General Tim Davie says: āGary is a valued part of the BBC and I know how much the BBC means to Gary, and I look forward to him presenting our coverage this coming weekend.ā
In a statement, Davie also announces the BBC will launch an independent review into its social media guidelines, with a particular focus on freelancers outside news and current affairs like Lineker.
Gary Lineker says in the statement: "I am glad that we have found a way forward. I support this review and look forward to getting back on air."
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 13 Mar 10:43
There`s clearly an issue with people illegally entering the UK rather than going through the correct asylum route, so it`s understandable that the Government should seek to discourage them. However, the statements coming out of Westminster seem aimed at simply appeasing a minority of people who think asylum seekers (illegal or otherwise) should get lost.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Mon 13 Mar 11:22
The root point here is that a state owned media organisation suspended a sports presenter for criticising the government.
That`s jus not acceptable for a country that claims to be democratic.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Mon 13 Mar 13:17
Number one item on the Beeb 1300 news. How incestuous is that?
More important than a junior Doc strike and war in Euroe obviously.
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Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh
Date: Mon 13 Mar 14:22
And also the first story on ITV news, Channel 4 news, and very high on the news agenda of news websites in France, Germany, Belgium, Spain, and probably other countries too. But let`s bash the B*stards Broadcasting Communism.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 13 Mar 15:00
Quote:
Wotsit, Mon 13 Mar 11:22
The root point here is that a state owned media organisation suspended a sports presenter for criticising the government.
That`s jus not acceptable for a country that claims to be democratic.
I think it was just Cruella Lineker was having a wee pop at, Wotsit. The poor flower was very upset by it.....
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Tad Allagash
Date: Mon 13 Mar 15:20
āUnfortunately, right wing comedy just isn`t funnyā¦ā
True enough CAPar, but female stand-up comics arenāt funny either, and that doesnāt stop the BBC giving them airtime in the name of diversity and inclusion.
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Topic Originator: fcda
Date: Mon 13 Mar 16:41
Quote:
Tad Allagash, Mon 13 Mar 15:20
āUnfortunately, right wing comedy just isn`t funnyā¦ā
True enough CAPar, but female stand-up comics arenāt funny either, and that doesnāt stop the BBC giving them airtime in the name of diversity and inclusion.
Wow. You must explode when Rosie Jones is on.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Mon 13 Mar 17:01
Quote:
fcda, Mon 13 Mar 16:41
Quote:
Tad Allagash, Mon 13 Mar 15:20
āUnfortunately, right wing comedy just isn`t funnyā¦ā
True enough CAPar, but female stand-up comics arenāt funny either, and that doesnāt stop the BBC giving them airtime in the name of diversity and inclusion.
Wow. You must explode when Rosie Jones is on.
I like a lot of female comedians and have been to a lot of such gigs. I could not watch Rosie Jones or the lost voice guy. They`re just not funny
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Mon 13 Mar 17:09
Rosie Jones is hilarious imo, but I get that she`s not for everyone.
I saw the Lost Voice Guy live once and he was great - but it was dark (the gig was a number of comedians doing ten minute sets in pitch dark) so I didn`t have a clue.
I don`t like, say, Michael McIntyre but would never consider it my place to say that he`s "not funny" let alone tar his entire gender with that brush.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Mon 13 Mar 19:11
Quote:
fcda, Mon 13 Mar 16:41
Quote:
Tad Allagash, Mon 13 Mar 15:20
āUnfortunately, right wing comedy just isn`t funnyā¦ā
True enough CAPar, but female stand-up comics arenāt funny either, and that doesnāt stop the BBC giving them airtime in the name of diversity and inclusion.
Wow. You must explode when Rosie Jones is on.
FWIW I really struggle to watch her too. That makes me a terrible person obviously
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: fcda
Date: Mon 13 Mar 20:17
Quote:
fcda, Sun 12 Mar 11:08
Tim Davie, Director-General of the BBC is a former Conservative Party politician.
Richard Sharp, BBC chairman, is a Tory donor, former advisor to Boris and Rishi, and Rishi`s former boss when they were bankers (I said "bankers").
Sharp helped Boris (while prime minister) to secure a loan of Ā£800,000 (by putting forward a friend to act as guarantor) while he was applying for the chairman job.
Fiona Bruce, host of Question Time gets a lot of criticism for appearing biased in favour of the Tories. Her husband`s company has advertising contracts with the Tories worth millions.
Research into the guests selected to appear on Question Time and Laura Keunsberg`s show highlight significant bias towards the Tories and right wing commentators.
I like the idea of the BBC but can`t stand BBC News and politics shows because of their clear bias.
Another one: Sir Robbie Gibb, appointed to the board of the BBC in 2021, was previously Downing Street head of communications under Theresa May.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 15 Mar 22:15
But the BBC is impartial...
All the mainstream media is controlled. I`m not suggesting tin hats but I`d take anything reported in the mainstream press with a pinch of salt. Even the Dunfermline Press just blindly publishes nonsense press release pieces rather than doing any real journalism.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Wed 15 Mar 23:32
I don`t know if I can believe that article from the Guardian though as that`s also mainstream media.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sat 1 Apr 20:21
Well it seems Lineker has been found not guilty of underpaying almost Ā£5m to HMRC. Perhaps those who presumed he was guilty before his case was examined on this forum will now come forward and post a fulsome and forthright apology? š
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sat 1 Apr 20:53
Could be wrong, as its a long thread, but I think I was the only one to mention his tax trial and I never stated that he was guilty merely that it was a case that he fighting. Fair play to Lineker, he`s using the rules to his own advantage and thats what the `invisible hand` is all about. I personally would have been quite happy to see a mutli millionaire pay more tax and definetly since that multi millionaire is paying less tax as a percentage of his income than poor old TOWK is.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sun 2 Apr 16:12
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Sat 1 Apr 20:53
Could be wrong, as its a long thread, but I think I was the only one to mention his tax trial and I never stated that he was guilty merely that it was a case that he fighting. Fair play to Lineker, he`s using the rules to his own advantage and thats what the `invisible hand` is all about. I personally would have been quite happy to see a mutli millionaire pay more tax and definetly since that multi millionaire is paying less tax as a percentage of his income than poor old TOWK is.
Aye, TOWK, that`s a fair point. There`s tax evasion and tax avoidance. One`s illegal the other isn`t. People like Lineker can afford to hire those who can ensure they don`t fall foul of HMRC. I was just being a wide-o, rather than pointing the finger at any individual. Besides, you`re one of the good guys on here... š
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 2 Apr 18:43
When people pay a perceived lower rate of tax, it`s not necessarily of their own doing. It often suits employers to treat people they engage as `free lance` rather than employees because they can then avoid employers` national insurance and commitments like sick pay, holiday pay and pension contributions.
Post Edited (Sun 02 Apr 18:58)
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sun 2 Apr 19:49
Eamon Holmes wasn`t quite as lucky!š¤š²š°
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 2 Apr 19:59
Aren`t all presenters basically contractors?
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 2 Apr 20:05
`Aren`t all presenters basically contractors?`
That`s usually the bone of contention. It suits the `employer` to treat them as such for the reasons stated above and the onus is on the `employee` to justify his/her status to HMRC who would like to treat them as employees taxed under PAYE and liable for NIC.
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Topic Originator: Tad Allagash
Date: Sun 2 Apr 23:04
In this case, Lineker had a direct contract with the BBC, so the off-payroll IR35 rules - which are aimed more at agency workers (so called disguised employees) - didnāt apply.
Lineker is not an employee of the BBC in the same way that your window cleaner is not your employee - theyāre someone you pay for a specific service.
So Lineker is correct here, and HMRC either donāt understand the tax rules or they think high-profile celebrities will be bullied/shamed into paying more tax.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Mon 3 Apr 09:07
HMRC not so keen on chasing Zahawi!š”
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Topic Originator: Dearay
Date: Fri 7 Apr 06:11
[Post Deleted] - Chain letter or spam
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Topic Originator: Dearay
Date: Fri 7 Apr 06:12
[Post Deleted] - Chain letter or spam
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 7 Apr 06:20
Don`t click the link above.
Admin, please remove.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sat 8 Apr 23:09
Seeing as admin haven`t removed it yet can you tell us where that link would take us Jake?
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 8 Apr 23:45
Website selling holiday activities.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 9 Apr 00:31
I`m just a naive country gent Jake so is that euphemism for something else or is it really just a website selling `holiday activities`.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 9 Apr 09:59
I wouldn`t know what you mean š Just the normal type of activities. It`s a spam link.
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Sun 9 Apr 13:13
Takes a pretty dedicated spammer to work their way through the internets least user friendly method of posting a link though so fair play to them šš¼
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