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 December Election
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Mon 28 Oct 21:51

There have been a few December elections before, the most recent being that in 1923 where the Conservatives had the greatest numbers of votes, but had to accede power to a Labour/Liberal alliance. This was only for 10 months as it happened, but a great shock nonetheless to the ruling party. Unlike today, Baldwin was not sacked for his misjudgement and was eventually PM for some time in the ‘dishonest decade’ of the inter war years.

The modern fetish for having elections in milder weather is presumably a response to the suffrage acts following WW1 when street lighting and working hours made it harder for working men – and women- to get to a ballot box. It’s amazing that this has survived to the present day, rather like linesmen with flags without any ‘mike up’ or VAR.

Anyhow, sounds like we might be going down a similar road to 1923. Johnson is not in this election to win seats: he is trying to save them from Brexiteers who think he is a fraud. Dreams of northern Labour seats are pie in the sky. Likewise, Labour has no momentum to pick up extra seats given its equivocal stance on Brexit, so instead of changing the arithmetic we are probably heading for another hung parliament.

As you were.
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 28 Oct 22:21

Divide and conquer sammer the oldest trick in the book but cannot believe the British public are so gullible to vote Tory with a brexit deal of huge future implications for their bairns bairns
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Mon 28 Oct 23:27

The British public are not stupid. Despite the incessant right wing tabloid denigration of every Labour leader in my lifetime, from the Russian spy Harold Wilson through to Czech spy Jeremy Corbyn, at least 1 in 3 voters have stayed loyal to the Labour Party. In that same time, despite the diabetic drivel emanating from Royal Correspondents and newspapers, a stolid 20% have opposed the institution of the monarchy from the mid 1960s. Given the propaganda onslaught, these are impressive figures and have produced six Labour governments in my lifetime. Don’t blame the British people.

What has Labour given in return? Damn little to deserve the votes it gets so far as I can see, If Farage and his populists mate had an inkling of ordinary life they could be making hay. How about safe standing at football matches, so we don’t have the empty terraces I see every week on Pars TV from what used to be lively Scottish football grounds? Not the big Euro games which are full to bursting: the ordinary matches played by the Pars who are losing support year on year and reaching out for ‘corporate sponsorship.’ How about some licensed smoking bars? How about promising to jail some guilty bankers in the upcoming Threadneedle Street Trials? How about taxing unearned income at proper rates? How about licensing journalists who write and broadcast on mainstream media? How about working class commissions to Sandhurst to better balance our military high command? How about no public contracts to companies with no trade union organisation? How about no public jobs for those from private schools?

The poverty of ambition, as Nye Bevan said, is harder to tackle than economic poverty. At present the Labour Party is an elastoplast organisation with no clear mandate to drive out the Tory rubbish who have been polluting UK life in recent years
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Tue 29 Oct 07:41

Quote:

Buspasspar, Mon 28 Oct 22:21

Divide and conquer sammer the oldest trick in the book but cannot believe the British public are so gullible to vote Tory with a brexit deal of huge future implications for their bairns bairns


Sunderland votes to leave the EU. This city must be the most gullible of the lot.
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: Mario  
Date:   Tue 29 Oct 07:51

You need to see the specialist about your own diabetic drivel. Farage making hay over standing at Scottish footie indeed.

If the thought of being examined by a public schoolboy/girl who has wormed their way into a public post makes you boke..well, that’s the risk you have to take. Though you could always ask them first?

Of course you would need a referral from your GP who is contracted by the NHS to provide services to the public but not employed by them. Shock horror, a business in other words! And are the receptionists unionised? Doubt it.
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 29 Oct 12:11

Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Tue 29 Oct 07:41

Quote:

Buspasspar, Mon 28 Oct 22:21

Divide and conquer sammer the oldest trick in the book but cannot believe the British public are so gullible to vote Tory with a brexit deal of huge future implications for their bairns bairns

Quote :-

Tenruh

Sunderland votes to leave the EU. This city must be the most gullible of the lot.


Nobody really knew what they were voting for Tenruh I am sure this is not the brexit most people thought they were voting for or wanted
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Tue 29 Oct 15:20

''You need to see the specialist about your own diabetic drivel.''
The usual complaint is that my taste is bitter rather than sugary, so that was a pleasant surprise.

I’m not clear on what your point is about doctors being contracted to work for the NHS; that would be the same as any public sector workers such as nurses, cleaners or teachers.

Doctors are trained, at considerable expense, through the public purse, as are military generals. Since my taxes have contributed to the training of a doctor it would be rather hypocritical of me to refuse treatment from him. Nor would I support cutting off his NHS work on ideological grounds since that would be unfair to him as a person and lead to a shortage of doctors.

My original point was however ideological: that those who choose to take public money in their chosen career should not be allowed to acquire their position through private privilege, such as subsidised private schooling. Such a policy would be made clear to parents in good time so that they could make a decision about their offspring’s education and if they decided to continue with private schooling then I would recognise their right to do so. If their son/daughter later wished to work in the public sector then they would be obliged to pay for the cost of their training.

Regarding Farage, I only used DAFC as an example of a trend that is also visible in lower league grounds all over the UK. Farage is not a football fan so has probably missed a trick in regard to standing areas, since he would have the brass neck to suggest it was EUFA who enforced all seater stadia.

Some doctors' receptionists are union members as are many clerical and admin workers across the NHS. I should have expressed myself more carefully and said that public contracts should only be awarded to companies which recognise trade union representation.
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Tue 29 Oct 17:17

If this evening's amendments are voted through then Johnson has little choice but to pull his election bill. There is no point him calling an election unless he believes he can win the thing, and with 16 and 17 year olds added to the electoral roll along with EU nationals then his chances of doing that are presumably less.

I assume that the opposition could then present the amended bill if they thought they might win a majority, which would not make Boris and his advisors look too smart.
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Tue 29 Oct 17:19

I'd ban private education if it were up to me.

On a practical level, it would have more parents engaged in improving state education. There is also strong evidence that private education is damaging to society. Finland banned it and has, by most measures, the best education system in the world


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 29 Oct 18:21

Funny thing about private education. I used to work with someone who attended private school in Edinburgh. Their view was they got nothing out of it other than stressed parents worrying about fees.

The best bit...it turned out they had a tutor as well. That tutor was the WORST teacher in their field in my state school.

What I was advised by an Edinburgh (state) school teacher was that all these parents who move house to get into the best state schools or send their kids to private school are wasting their money. The reason kids in affluent areas tend to do better is down to the support they have at home and access to resources.

Personally, I'd do away with them. But what's the impact on the likes of Edinburgh where 1/5 are in private education. They'd potentially need 3 or 4 new high schools to cope.

Post Edited (Tue 29 Oct 18:21)
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 29 Oct 18:31

Dont under estimate the old boys network that comes from the private schools.

The old adage it's not what you know its who you know sometimes has a ring of truth.

Going back to Finland, I read up on their education system a while back and the steps they took all seem to be completely logical in building a better education system.

Paying teachers what they're worth was a good starting step.
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Tue 29 Oct 18:56

Finland can teach us a lot about education.

They don't start until seven.

No selection or streaming.

Not making eight year-olds sit formal tests.

It's free! There was a massive outcry two years ago because tuition fees were introduced for the first time. For non-EEA students only, but it was such an anathema to them to charge anything, ever, for education that it caused a scandal.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 29 Oct 19:22

Our education system was the envy of the world at one time
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Tue 29 Oct 19:37

Prediction time:

Tories to win with 330 seats. Johnson's Brexit deal passes.
Labour just scrape 200 seats. Corbyn resigns.
Lib Dems get 50+ seats.
SNP 40+ seats.

Then we get 5 years of fun as we leave the EU painfully. Joy!
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 29 Oct 20:59

Its a hard one to call aaaaaaaaaargh

Historically the scotland vote even back in the labour stronghold days did not make a difference to the GE outcome perhaps maybe 3 times since The despot Churchill was PM

My gut feel is Johnston is gambling on the leave voters backing him... BUT I honestly think many leave voters having seen what the Tory Dominic led brexit deal actually impacts on them will change their minds and vote for the party that advocates remain or another referendum ..... But yes another but the wasted votes for lib dem, brexit, green, independent will only give the Tory's a better chance to win
Divide and conquer

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were


Post Edited (Tue 29 Oct 21:02)
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: Mario  
Date:   Tue 29 Oct 22:28

Remain voters are spoilt for choice. The Welsh and Scots are particularly blessed.
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Tue 29 Oct 22:59

It's going to be a crazy election, very hard to predict what will happen. They should be having a 2nd referendum on leaving the EU first
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Tue 29 Oct 23:02

Quote:

red-star-par, Tue 29 Oct 22:59

It's going to be a crazy election, very hard to predict what will happen. They should be having a 2nd referendum on leaving the EU first


I'm sure there direction will be used to either confirm our deny the referendum result.
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 10:38

Any news yet on what the Brexit Party are doing regarding candidates. Do they intend to field any?

SNP will get 50+ seats
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 10:43

The snp will do well to get over 45 seats. I'd be delighted if they can get 40.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 10:55

It looks like I misjudged how screwed up the first-past-the-post system is.
I just had a go at an online calculator and ended up with a Tory majority of 220.
That will be fun if it happens...
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 15:28

That sounds like a calculator handed out free by the Daily Express. Where are the extra Tory votes going to come from? In Brexitland every Tory voter is a Brexiteer (clearly false), the Brexit supporters in Labour constituencies in northern England are begging for the chance to vote for Boris and the overwhelming mood in the country is a deafening shout of ‘Get it Done!’

Except this all highly questionable. All of the polling for the last three years clearly points to a slight Remain majority so the public mood is probably more a shout of ‘Call it Off!’ In light of that I can see some Labour supporters transferring their vote to the Lib Dems, but obviously not to the Tories. Labour voters who are so fanatical about Brexit that they would vote Tory are a rare species. Every election we hear the experts say that the public are more volatile than ever before, that the old tribal alliances are weakened and that the election will be too close to call; yet it never really is. The vast majority vote as expected and a handful of tight swing seats decides matters.
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 16:13

What's happening with farage and his brexit party? My seen or heard from him since the election was announced
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 16:35

Farage has benefitted from disproportionate publicity over recent years since he has been helpful to the millionaires who fund the Brexit campaign. This is a man who has seven times failed to be elected to parliament yet is treated by mainstream media as if he were a cabinet minister.

Now that Brexit is in danger of being called off, Farage is a threat to the May/Johnson BRINO deal that remains on the table so his microphones have been turned off. There are rumours of Farage doing an electoral deal with Johnson but if he goes down that road then he will be castigated as yet another Remainer in Brexiteer’s clothing! There may come a time when there is no such thing as a Brexiteer left in UK public life.
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 17:12

The latest rumour is that the Brexit party will just contest selected seats they think they can win
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 18:58

Quote :-
Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 30 Oct 17:12

The latest rumour is that the Brexit party will just contest selected seats they think they can win


Where's screaming Lord Sutch when we need him :-)
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 20:57

Sammer - Maybe I'm being too pessimistic or you are being too optimistic, but it is first-past-the-post that will probably give the Tories a decent majority. They are polling close to 40 percent, which is only slightly down on 2017 but Labour are way down in the 20s with no evidence that the Corbyn bounce that they got last time will happen again.

I think Farage knows that, if he opposes Johnson then Brexit could easily be called off. As people are suggesting, he will put a lot of effort into a few seats that the Tories don't stand a chance of winning in the hope that his party can replace the DUP as Johnson's 'special friends'
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 21:54

The Brexit Party will gain the same numbers of parliamentary seats as the Revolutionary Communist Party, to which I have deep sympathy: NONE

Farage is unelectable. End of story. A raincoat fascist is only electable within a Euro vote, not a Westminster one when people are looking for something more positive. Farage is a joke.

Farage's ability to take votes from Johnson is miniscule, and has only been exaggerated due to Johnson quite understandably trying to pull his troops in to line. Johnson fears Farage as much as Celtic fear Stenhousemuir. It's the same as the Tommy Robinson threat: that football hooligan would be lucky to spark a riot in Tesco's.

The whole point of the game is to issue false threats and badger people into accepting Brexit for fear of something worse. As it turns out, Brexit it probably the worst option available and that is now established as the majority view.
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: Mario  
Date:   Wed 30 Oct 22:07

Those for Brexit should vote for Boris. Farage is a waste of space and votes.

Those who want to remain have a wide selection of losers to choose from.
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Thu 31 Oct 04:56

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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Thu 31 Oct 08:04

Quote:

Mario, Wed 30 Oct 22:07

Those for Brexit should vote for Boris. Farage is a waste of space and votes.

Those who want to remain have a wide selection of losers to choose from.


On Radio 4 this morning that the Brexit Party have presently gone on radio silence.
It's looking like they are going to contest upto 100 leibour seats that the tories wouldn't expect to win... How ironic eh? If its good for the goose etc... Don't think Labour will get past 200 seats this time.
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 Re: December Election
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Thu 31 Oct 10:14

Sammer - I agree that the Brexit party will get no (or very few) seats. I also agree that Johnson doesn't fear Farage. He is just a mild annoyance who could keep a few hard Brexiters from voting Tory depending on how he approaches the campaign. That might only be worth 10-15 seats for the Tories, but that could make the difference.
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