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 Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 8 Aug 15:45

Has anyone had family or friends affected by these? Amongst all the criticism, from political opponents and others, I haven't heard anyone come up with an alternative system which would have been any less controversial. It will be interesting to see the reaction when results are announced for other parts of the UK.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Sat 8 Aug 16:46

Quote:

wee eck, Sat 8 Aug 15:45

Has anyone had family or friends affected by these? Amongst all the criticism, from political opponents and others, I haven't heard anyone come up with an alternative system which would have been any less controversial. It will be interesting to see the reaction when results are announced for other parts of the UK.


There is a very easy appeals process available. If you feel you were hard done by based on your prelims the appeal.
Back in the day I got an A in English prelim higher. This was a complete surprise to me. When I did the actual exam I got a C which I wasn't as surprised about. The school appealed and I was upgraded to a B.
I think a C was fair though...
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 8 Aug 16:52

My daughter is an art teacher and grades were put forward for the pupils.

These were downgraded by SQA who had not even seen their work!
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 8 Aug 17:25

So do you think they should have just accepted the teachers' grades without adjustment, LA?
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 8 Aug 17:34

It's tough one isn't it. Be interesting to see how they handle it down south later this month.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 8 Aug 17:43

Quote:

wee eck, Sat 8 Aug 17:25

So do you think they should have just accepted the teachers' grades without adjustment, LA?


How can they adjust without seeing their work?
Art and a few other subjects have actual products from the school term, technical subjects as well.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 8 Aug 18:11

Like all the critics you haven't actually answered the question.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 8 Aug 18:20

???
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 8 Aug 18:41

Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sat 8 Aug 18:20

???


The question I asked at 17:25; the first rule of exams is make sure you answer the question you were asked!
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 8 Aug 19:22

Yes, along with my daughter and the whole art department!
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sat 8 Aug 19:38

If the results the teachers put forward were all accepted it would be the best set of results in history.
Surely that can not be right?
Simple solution would be to allow anyone who is not happy with their results so sit an exam.
See how many of them are still moaning then.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 8 Aug 19:40

I must admit I don't know how an Art exam works. Is it simply producing an artwork under exam conditions or does it involve answering questions in writing? I can see that Art possibly lends itself better to continual assessment than other subjects.

If overall they'd accepted teachers' assessments without adjustment they would have ended up with improvements over previous years which would have lacked credibility and maybe cast doubt amongst colleges/universities or potential employers about the standards that had been applied this year compared with previous years.

I discussed it with a friend who is a retired teacher and he had reservations about simply accepting teachers' assessments. I don't think it's nearly as straightforward as some are claiming. Anyway, as moviescot pointed out, the process isn't actually complete yet so it's a bit premature to dismiss it as a shambles but everyone seems to expect instant solutions now to very complicated problems.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Sat 8 Aug 19:46

Problem is that grades are often majority exam based and this is not a good judgement of ability. Courses should be at minimum 50-50 coursework-exam or 33-33-33 classwork-courework-exam.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 8 Aug 21:12

Art exam results are based on the pupils portfolio, built up through a school term.
Obviously the last term was cut short, therefore portfolios were not submitted only the teachers grades forecast.
My daughter was involved in the SQA marking last year and found it to be like a retired teachers annual day/week out.
They took no prisoners and constantly marked down the markers scores, after 2 days she was ready for chucking it.
She had decided not to do it this year as it was too stressful!
My daughter has a degree with honours from Edinburgh College of Art and has been teaching for over 10years.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 8 Aug 22:18

Didn't they use a formula to prevent schools going from, for example, 10 As 20 Bs and 15 Cs to suddenly have 20 As, 15 Bs and 10 Cs? Yes, schools can improve but presumably not massively.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: JTH123  
Date:   Sat 8 Aug 22:22

My lad did much better than we thought he would. Considering the year the Woodmill pupils have had it's a relief. He was dreading english and computing as he had poor prelims but got an A for each.
He has always had an interest in drama and consistently got top marks but was graded B so I think we'll appeal it.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sun 9 Aug 15:44

My daughter had two higher results (English and maths) downgraded. Disappointed with English but no real complaints in maths - if were totally truthful, she was probably a coin toss on which grade she'd have got anyway (only thing is it went from a pass to a fail)

Post Edited (Sun 09 Aug 15:45)
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 9 Aug 17:47

I just read an article anticipating the release of results in England and Wales this week. A similar sort of process involving adjustment of teachers' assessments is being applied and they also have an Appeals procedure. However, unlike in Scotland, the Appeals procedure is not free and the appeals have to be made by the schools rather than the individual pupils.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 09:28

Swinney getting it in the neck from nearly every Scottish front page this morning
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 09:42

Quote:

Buspasspar, Mon 10 Aug 09:28

Swinney getting it in the neck from nearly every Scottish front page this morning


And that's a surprise because. Not a perfect system but has anyone come up with a better one. England's sounds worse. Possibly up to 40% correction.

Surely if you appeal and get it turned down what is stopping these pupils taking the exam next year? If it's so important to their potential careers.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 09:48

Ian Gray (Lab) and Alex Neil (SNP but a bit if a rebel) were on the radio this morning apparently saying the teachers' assessments should have been used without adjustment - as if that would have been accepted by the opposition MSPs and media!
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 10:37

Quote:

wee eck, Mon 10 Aug 09:48

Ian Gray (Lab) and Alex Neil (SNP but a bit if a rebel) were on the radio this morning apparently saying the teachers' assessments should have been used without adjustment - as if that would have been accepted by the opposition MSPs and media!


If that happened it would have been the best results ever.
Do they seriously think this years pupils are better than any before?
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 13:37

I think that there is something to be said for marking generously this year, given what the pupils have been through and given the difficulty in providing any degree of precision in the assessment of grades.

There's also a lot to be said for giving folk extra leeway for another few years to make up for the major disruption to the education of folk who were in second and third year when the lockdown hit.

My cohort's education was pretty disrupted by teachers' strikes (I still thought they were justified though!) and I felt that we should have got a wee benefit of the doubt as a result.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 13:46

Is your cohort taught in Latin?😊😊😊
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 15:29

"I think that there is something to be said for marking generously this year, given what the pupils have been through and given the difficulty in providing any degree of precision in the assessment of grades."

I agree with that. My girlfriend's best mate is a teacher and she is really hacked off at the changes that were made to the grades she gave as she felt they were fair based on what she had seen. I suspect most teachers felt the same way. I think its fairer to rely on the teachers opinion of a current student rather than the historic results of previous students.

That could leave this generation of students as the best in history and they might well have been. They might have passed their exams and got the same results they were recommended for but we'll never know. Downgrading them on bench marks against other pupils previous scores is less fair than taking the opinion of a teacher that has worked with them all year.

What if some schools had a few years of crap students (relatively speaking!)? Why would it be fair to downgrade this years crop? In the absence of any more exact data I'd have run with the teacher's view unless there was a clear bias from a teacher. If a class were all getting straight As you might want to review that..

Worst case scenario some kids get into Uni for a course they might not have qualified for if there had been exam.

Worst case scenario this way a kid who would have got the grades they needed to get into a course they wanted if they had sat an exam is potentially being downgraded based on other peoples scores. I dont think its melodramatic to say that could be life changing for the kids involved. The downside here is worse than the other scenario in my opinion.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 15:44

This ^^^^^^^
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 15:52

It will be interesting to see the reaction in England & Wales when their results are announced this week.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 16:40

They should all get either what their prelim score was or the average of prelim score and teacher assessment. Whichever is higher.
If they are still not happy they should then be given the opportunity to sit an exam as soon as it is deemed safe to do so. If that result is lower than they would get from the above tough. That's the result they get.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 17:02

My son was 2% off an A in his Design and Manufacture prelim in January. He got a really good progress report in the same subject 3 weeks later. Last week he was awarded a D.

moviescot/sadindiefreak - please can you justify this. I can't.

I'll put this out there though - if the English equivalent of the SQA did this first the Tories would be getting it ticht.

You simply cannot defend this decision. It's a disgrace & the sooner it's sorted the better.



"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"

Post Edited (Mon 10 Aug 17:32)
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: parforthecourse  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 17:10

I know of kid at DHS, who got a mark in the 90s for a higher prelim.....was awarded a C by the SQA.

The SQA can't just use the teacher estimates, as it results in grade inflation, which devalues every result, but at the same time, how can a mark in the 90s result in a C?....unless said kid didn't attend another class, and failed all subsequent class tests, etc, and the teacher actually estimated a C?
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 18:40

''I'll put this out there though - if the English equivalent of the SQA did this first the Tories would be getting it ticht.''

The SNP have been 'getting it ticht' up here so what's your point?
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 19:25

N.S. has admitted the SNP got it wrong No.1... Now Q Boris with his school uniform on telling us everything is fine ..He likes to dress for the occasion but disappears stage left when under scrutiny
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 19:40

Quote:

wee eck, Mon 10 Aug 18:40

''I'll put this out there though - if the English equivalent of the SQA did this first the Tories would be getting it ticht.''

The SNP have been 'getting it ticht' up here so what's your point?


Quite right too. This is an absolute nightmare for the kids involved just when they need it least.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 20:16

The SNP are doing appallingly on education. That's nothing new. Even just last year we saw Swinney announcing funding (really a loan) for the replacement of Woodmill. He came in like he was a saviour for the burnt out school when that funding had already been agreed two months previously.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Mon 10 Aug 20:37

Wonder if BJ will have a photo opportunity this week in a Scottish school, as he's supposed to be up here on holiday?

He will be telling all his fellow Englanders that there's no risks in going back, I am sure Ross or Ruthy will sort it out for him!
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 15:46

Tens of thousands of school pupils are to have their exam results upgraded after the Scottish government agreed to accept teacher estimates of scores.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 15:54

In the absence of any better system I think that's the fairest way forward for those involved.

Fair play to the SG for listening.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 16:23

That puts the pressure on the governments in other parts of the UK. When dissatisfied pupils there see what has happened here after protests they'll be quick to demand the same treatment.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 17:15

wee eck really desperate for it all to kick off elsewhere.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 17:25

It's just an observation mate and I don't think he's likely to be wrong if England & Wales have done the same thing as Scotland.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: dd23  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 17:51

It will heap pressure on England because algorithms show 39% will be affected there whereas its only 20% up here.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 18:20

''Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Tue 11 Aug 17:15

wee eck really desperate for it all to kick off elsewhere.''

It's just the way things tend to be; Scotland leads and the others follow.😊😊😊
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 18:43

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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 11 Aug 18:46

Douglas Ross thought Swinney was offside but I thought the Greens played him on...
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 12 Aug 08:44

Just going to leave this here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/874087.stm

For any adults saying kids these days are moaners.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Wed 12 Aug 14:05

Quote:

jake89, Wed 12 Aug 08:44

Just going to leave this here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/874087.stm

For any adults saying kids these days are moaners.


Jake, that's from 2000!
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 12 Aug 15:06

I know. My point is that it's not the first time. People these days talk about a snowflake generation yet it was the same 20 years ago.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Wed 12 Aug 15:08

👍
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 13 Aug 10:14

It's all kicking off down south! You could quote the Scottish Tories' criticism of the original SG system and direct it word for word at the Westminster Tories' system. Priceless.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Thu 13 Aug 10:19

You can almost hear the joy in your tone Eck. Made your day has it?

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 13 Aug 10:28

It was all pretty predictable, wasn't it? The Tories seldom disappoint.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Thu 13 Aug 10:56

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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Thu 13 Aug 11:34

Quote:

wee eck, Thu 13 Aug 10:28

It was all pretty predictable, wasn't it? The Tories seldom disappoint.


What was predictable? Your absolute glee that more kids have been done over through no fault of their own?

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 13 Aug 11:55

You seem angry.

The reaction to the announcement of results that followed a similar system to the one adopted initially by the SG was predictable. What does Gavin Williamson do now? Follow John Swinney's example and look weak or dig his heels in and look mean?
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 13 Aug 12:19

Quote:

da_no_1, Thu 13 Aug 10:19

You can almost hear the joy in your tone Eck. Made your day has it?


I dont think anyone is happy that kids anywhere have had the grief that they've had for their schooling but the Tories in Scotland have attacked the Scottish Government for something they've done to a worse degree in the rest of the UK.

In fairness to the SNP after getting it wrong they then implemented the best (IMO at least) solution to a bad situation.

This didn't stop the Conservatives from calling for resignations which in hindsight will look like rank hypocrisy as their party will defend their education Minister for doing exactly what the SG initially did but to a worse degree. I also don't think the solution in England is as good as ours but that's just my opinion again.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 13 Aug 12:48

Didn't the relevant figures, both in Holyrood and Westminster, not properly analyse the rights and wrongs and pros and cons of how to best award exams marks. I'm sure they did and came to what they felt was the fairest and just decision. Then they found out that was unpopular so changed their mind. Now I don't know if the initial decision was right or wrong but they did feel it was right and because of a lack of courage in their convictions they've changed their mind. Nothing wrong with admitting you've got it wrong and making amends but I'm not sure they really believe they got it wrong they have just changed course for popularity reasons and that's not the sort of thing Ieaders should do. At least not ones with integrity.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Thu 13 Aug 13:03

No they did get it wrong and I think they accept that. I'm not 100% sure that the SG ( or Westminster to be fair) would have fully understood the mechanism that the independent exam board were working to.

What you ended up with is talented pupils being prejudiced because of where they studied. Not good. Unfortunately you also have less talented pupils who probably got better than expected results because they went to a good school in a nice address. Also not good.

I have never liked these one off exam situations. They do not give a proper set of results. Some people are good at exams and some are not. It's like a car MOT. All that proves is that when it was tested it was acceptable. 10 mins after leaving the garage it means nothing.

Continuous assessment is the correct way to judge pupils with regular tests to be used as part of a mark together with an end of year exam. And teachers judgement needs to be fair and equitable.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 13 Aug 13:05

So leaders should stick with a decision regardless of any criticism? You have absolutely no foundation for your belief that they don't really think they got it wrong. I presume you think Gavin Williamson should stick to his original decision and ignore any criticism? Let's see how that plays out.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 13 Aug 13:14

Wee Eck, you asked when you started this thread what alternative system that could have been used that would have been less controversial. I assume you now agree that they shouldn't have went with their original decision.
Yes I think if Swinney and Williamson don't believe that they came to the correct decision initially then they weren't adequately on top of their brief. What arguments have been put to them that none of their advisors put to them weeks and months ago?

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 13 Aug 13:16

I get your point TOWK but MS has replied to that probably better than I would have so I'm just saying: what he said 😃
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 13 Aug 13:18

As MS said though did they fully appreciate what the algorithms would lead to?

The process might have sounded fine in theory but they might have had no idea about the potential bias to historically performing better schools in more affluent areas that showed up in the overall results.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 13 Aug 13:38

''Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 11 Aug 14:00

There is no 'right' answer to this but, whichever one the government chooses, the opposition will say it was the wrong one. Watch the fur fly on Thursday when the England and Wales results come out.''

That's what I said on the 'SQA' thread and I stick by it. Swinney obviously didn't anticipate the reaction there would be to the original results and responded accordingly. I don't see yielding to public opinion on an issue like this in such unique circumstances as a sign of weakness. Williamson had the luxury of an extra week during which he could see the reaction in Scotland but, for whatever reason, he decided to ignore it.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 13 Aug 13:45

Too add to that its not just yielding to public opinion its correcting an anomaly that's emerged in the way the results have been amended that is a pretty big flaw in the solution.

I think down South they probably became aware of the problem after the release of the results in Scotland but they were too far down the line in finalising their own results to implement a different solution. I think that's understandable from an operational perspective.

In fairness they haven't done nothing either, they have proposed a menu of options but for various reasons I still don't think what they have proposed is as good as what we have ultimately done (keeping in mind its really a no win situation for anyone on the politics side). Any solution was going to be sub optimal vs the standard process (which as MS points out and I did in another post) may not be the best solution either.

Post Edited (Thu 13 Aug 13:45)
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 13 Aug 17:23

Irony coming from a former fireplace salesman!🤔🤣🤣🤣

<Gavin Williamson-“Increasing the A-Level grades will mean a whole generation could end up promoted beyond their abilities” >
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 13 Aug 17:31

Yeah that was an absolutely honking argument. The chances of anyone getting a promotion at work on the back of their A Level results is almost non existent.

You're either doing the job well enough for a promotion or you aren't. The chances of a tie being decided on school results must be tiny.

Some uni applications may benefit slightly but if someone somehow ends up on a course they aren't capable of finishing then the system will find them out and they'll have spunked about 8 grand up against the wall for every year they managed to keep on blagging it.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Sat 15 Aug 10:28

Wonder why opposing parties in England, Wales and NI are not screaming for the resignation of the respective education secretaries ?
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: Parplod  
Date:   Sat 15 Aug 11:19

Had interesting chat with friend who spent many years as a Head Teacher at an Inner London school. Moved north supposedly to retire but was asked to help out at a Scottish school and ended up Head of Department for a few years. Pointed out differences in system.
Scottish prelims set by individual school. No standardisation.
England mocks set by 5/6 Exam Boards, spread across the country and each run as a business. Schools can use any or all of them for their mock exams. They may not have the same grade criteria and schools choose whichever one would give their pupils best chance of success.
In England Ofqual carries out moderation in liaison with schools, Local Education Authorities and Universities. SQA is also supposed to be independent but rarely liaises. It is open to political interference as we have seen this week. One day predicted grade inflation was called not credible, next day grade criteria is trashed because nowadays no one is allowed to fail.
He also stated that within the profession teacher assessments are regarded as notoriously unreliable - ranging from 20-80% accuracy.

Sounds like a lose/lose scenario, regardless of governing party.

Also know of a local parent who acknowledges that daughter is of the opinion that her mollycoddling parents will live forever and fund her forever. She is only interested in hair, makeup and her boyfriend. Doesn’t give a toss about school. Scored 20% in one of her prelims. School predicted a C pass!! Of course this is now what she has.



Post Edited (Sat 15 Aug 12:57)
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 15 Aug 12:26

There must have been a joint approach between the UK nations to be using the same algorithms?

My sister who was teaching in England is not qualified to teach in Scotland, even though she has a degree from college in Galashiels.

Post Edited (Sat 15 Aug 12:28)
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 15 Aug 13:07

There's definitely some legitimate errors but it seems to me like the the so-called "post-code grading" is simply a result of teachers in more deprived areas being more likely to up-grade students.

Universities looking at grades for this year will be taking it with a pinch of salt.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sat 15 Aug 15:45

Or maybe they gave them grades they thought were accurate and they were down graded as previous scores were lower?

Post Edited (Sat 15 Aug 15:45)
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 15 Aug 15:52

I'd read the results were already 20% higher. Of course a school will have fluctuating results but if it's suddenly got far higher grades then something is questionable. It'll be interesting to compare this year's results with next year's.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sat 15 Aug 15:59

Quote:

Parplod, Sat 15 Aug 11:19

Had interesting chat with friend who spent many years as a Head Teacher at an Inner London school. Moved north supposedly to retire but was asked to help out at a Scottish school and ended up Head of Department for a few years. Pointed out differences in system.
Scottish prelims set by individual school. No standardisation.
England mocks set by 5/6 Exam Boards, spread across the country and each run as a business. Schools can use any or all of them for their mock exams. They may not have the same grade criteria and schools choose whichever one would give their pupils best chance of success.
In England Ofqual carries out moderation in liaison with schools, Local Education Authorities and Universities. SQA is also supposed to be independent but rarely liaises. It is open to political interference as we have seen this week. One day predicted grade inflation was called not credible, next day grade criteria is trashed because nowadays no one is allowed to fail.
He also stated that within the profession teacher assessments are regarded as notoriously unreliable - ranging from 20-80% accuracy.

Sounds like a lose/lose scenario, regardless of governing party.

Also know of a local parent who acknowledges that daughter is of the opinion that her mollycoddling parents will live forever and fund her forever. She is only interested in hair, makeup and her boyfriend. Doesn’t give a toss about school. Scored 20% in one of her prelims. School predicted a C pass!! Of course this is now what she has.


All your sister would have to do to qualify to teach in Scotland is to submit an application to the GTCS where they review the qualifications to teach and its extremely unlikely that there would be any issue with your sister or any other properly qualified teacher transferring.

I was crap in all my prelims as I didn't try for any of them and got all credit grades. The teachers had me at predicited higher scores than my prelims as they knew I was better than my prelim scores.

I don't really think one anecdote either way is going to prove anything either way.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sat 15 Aug 16:32

Quote:

jake89, Sat 15 Aug 15:52

I'd read the results were already 20% higher. Of course a school will have fluctuating results but if it's suddenly got far higher grades then something is questionable. It'll be interesting to compare this year's results with next year's.


Sorry Jake missed this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53580888

This gives a breakdown of the results.

Focusing on Highers the teachers had predicted a 14% improvement on last year's scores and a 12.3% improvement on the 5 year average.

The downgrades however lowered poorer schools results by 15.2% and richer schools by 6.9%.

That generic averaging doesn't take into account individuals performance and significantly tilts the scales towards the richer schools who already have an advantage in academia anyway.

The system doesn't have the capability to identify who individually has overperformed vs who under performed and then applied a solution that excessively down graded poorer school.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Sat 15 Aug 18:03

Perhaps it would be better if they looked at it the other way. Pupils from more affluent areas and those at private schools should have there grades downgraded--this would ensure a more level playing field with those doing well from poorer backgrounds
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 15 Aug 18:53

Why would it be fairer to downgrade private schools? I strongly believe that the bog standard private schools (Stew Mel, Mary Erskine, Dollar etc) have little educational benefit. The difference is likely to come from home - computers, materials, parental support.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 17 Aug 11:34

"Scottish prelims set by individual school. No standardisation."

Parplod has touched on one of the central weaknesses of the Scottish system.

Prelim exams had (have ?) two fundemental aims.

First, to give candidates a full "dress rehearsal" of the exam they would sit a few months later.

The prelim paper should be as close as possible to the "real thing" - same degree of difficulty, scope and nature of questions, marks allocated per question, time allowed and conducted under formal exam conditions etc.

Secondly to provide evidence of achievement if an appeal were made.

The latter could be a problem due to the variation of prelim papers set by different schools rather than a uniform prelim for reference.



Post Edited (Mon 17 Aug 11:36)
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par  
Date:   Mon 17 Aug 13:08

<<The latter could be a problem due to the variation of prelim papers set by different schools rather than a uniform prelim for reference.>>

We had a similar problem with the Baccalaureat exams.

One maths teacher ALWAYS sets the prelim exam way harder than the real exam - his theory being that if you pass this, you will fly the finals...
No standardisation even in the school between teachers, far less across different schools.

All well and good until this year, when the school based the final exam result EXACTLY on the prelim.
Class average in the English language section was over 30% lower than the French and German sections,
Cue much gnashing of teeth, complaints and appeals...

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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Mon 17 Aug 13:49

Correct, the absence of national final exams cannot be underestimated.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 17 Aug 18:30

John Swinney must be feeling quite smug tonight!
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 17 Aug 19:11

Anyone seen Boris ??
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: Superally  
Date:   Mon 17 Aug 19:20

Boris is in a witness protection programme and is rumoured to be hiding in a fridge in Rockall



2009/10, 2010/11, 2013/14, 2015/16 dafc.net Prediction League Champion

It's a well known medical fact that some men were born two drams below par.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 17 Aug 19:34

lol ^^^^
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 18 Aug 08:42

Rumoured to be in the Fairmont in St Andrews, though some seem to think he's in Craill.
Presumably Air Farce One landed at Leuchars?
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Tue 18 Aug 11:37

Rumoured to be camping also....lol. In this weather ?

Hard to envisage Boris crawling out of a tent at 5 in the morning with his hair all tousled.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 18 Aug 11:47

He should be easy to spot in his hi-vis jacket, even in the East Coast haar.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 18 Aug 12:44

If he's camping with a new born then he's definitely lost the plot.

Post Edited (Tue 18 Aug 12:44)
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Tue 18 Aug 20:03

I think his camping might be slightly different to our idea of it.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 19 Aug 20:26

From Aunty :-
More than half a million pupils face a fresh round of results chaos after exam board Pearson pulled its BTec results on the eve of releasing them.

Pearson said it would be re-grading all its BTecs to bring them in line with A-levels and GCSEs, which are now being graded via school-based assessments.

The 11th-hour move affects 575,000 pupils, 250,000 of whom received grades last week.

Boris come out come out wherever you are
The Monkey's in the Jelly Jar
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Wed 19 Aug 21:06

Has Boris even shown his face since bumbling about with Douglas Ross in deserted Highland and Island communities?
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 20 Aug 10:45

He must be in a ditch somewhere Andrew283 :-)
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 20 Aug 11:39

Or a freezer!🤡🤡🤡
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 20 Aug 11:43

And so it continues!!

https://amp.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/20/firm-linked-to-gove-and-cummings-hired-to-work-with-ofqual-on-a-levels?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Thu 20 Aug 15:29

How many hundreds of millions of tax payers pounds have been handed on a plate to these companies with links to government ministers without going out to tender?

It really is scandalous but there seems to be very little outcry.

They really are lining each other’s pockets big style.

I suppose that’s what they meant by “Taking back Control”
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 25 Aug 16:24

From Aunty:-

A sacrifice for Williamson ?

The head of England's exams regulator, Sally Collier, has quit after thousands of students' marks were downgraded for exams they were unable to sit.

Ofqual chief Ms Collier has been under fire for a flawed algorithm which made GCSE and A-level marks "unfair and unfathomable".

It also led to many A-level students losing university places they had been offered, and a crunch on degree places.

The previous regulator, Dame Glenys Stacey, has been asked to step in.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 25 Aug 17:21

Westminster is now getting into a fankle over face coverings in schools. After Johnson categorically dismissing their use it seems they are now reconsidering. Keeping your options open is such an obviously prudent way to proceed but Johnson seems to prefer to look decisive by ruling anything else out.
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 25 Aug 17:27

wee eck ... you would think that such a brave man who was at deaths door would be in favour of maximum precautions in schools
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 25 Aug 20:55

He's too busy with his holidays, there's speculation about how much she has been given to "fall on her sword"?

And all over an algorithm that Dominic promoted!
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 26 Aug 16:40

From Aunty :-

Prime Minister Boris Johnson has blamed a "mutant algorithm" for this summer's exam results fiasco.

"I am afraid your grades were almost derailed by a mutant algorithm and I know how stressful that must have been," Mr Johnson told pupils at a school in Leicestershire.

In the fall-out from the exam problems, the Department for Education's permanent secretary has stepped down.

If follows the resignation of the head of Ofqual on Tuesday.

The National Education Union called Mr Johnson's comments "brazen" and accused the prime minister of trying to "idly shrug away a disaster that his own government created".
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 26 Aug 18:30

Not really a 'stepping down'' according to the government's own website :-

''The prime minister has concluded that there is a need for fresh official leadership at the Department for Education.

Jonathan Slater has therefore agreed that he will stand down on 1 September, in advance of the end of his tenure in spring 2021.''

So the exams fiasco has been blamed on Ofqual and the Civil Service and the coronavirus fiasco on Public Health England.

Whose hand do you see in all this?
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 26 Aug 19:46

wee eck.......Dominic the Puppet Master
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Wed 26 Aug 21:31

Quote:

Buspasspar, Wed 26 Aug 19:46

wee eck.......Dominic the Puppet Master


Who's seemingly convalescing up in Durham after an operation by a private hospital.

BJ disappearing whilst his prompter is AWOL!
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Fri 28 Aug 16:55

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Tue 25 Aug 20:55

He's too busy with his holidays, there's speculation about how much she has been given to "fall on her sword"?

And all over an algorithm that Dominic promoted!


From the sun mind!

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12519048/shamed-ofqual-boss-1million-pension/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
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 Re: Scottish exam results
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Fri 28 Aug 20:14

"Furious Tory MPs slammed the “reward for failure” and said parents and pupils will be seething over the payment."

Without any sense of irony.
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