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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Fri 31 Jul 09:36
Apparently 49,000 illegals have stormed the Spanish territory of Cueta in North Africa...just insanity and must have been terrifying for the residents.
Spain and Morocco have reportedly agreed to work together to return all of them and have returned about half so far.
Have to wonder if Spain brought this on themselves with the recent amnesty. And that must be electoral suicide for the incumbents now.
Reading as well that Poland have implemented a law where they can open fire on migrants attempting to breach the border. If this keeps up, then I honestly can`t see any other way forward...
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 31 Jul 10:53
Well one way forward would be not to open fire on unarmed people crossing a border surely?
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Fri 31 Jul 11:17
How else can they be stopped and deterred from trying to cross then?
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Fri 31 Jul 11:30
The BBC reported this a "hundreds entering" and left that as the headline for 15 hours.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Fri 31 Jul 11:34
Technically, 49000 is hundreds isn`t it?
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Fri 31 Jul 11:44
Quote:
Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Fri 31 Jul 11:34
Technically, 49000 is hundreds isn`t it?
Welsh choirboy stuff.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 31 Jul 12:34
I don`t know HJ. I do know that I can`t countenance mowing down crowds of people, possibly including women, children (not that shooting men in cold blood is any more palatable) to be the only option. I don`t condone illegal migrants crossing the channel in small boats but if the Royal Navy started blowing them out the water and leaving those that survive the maelstrom to drown I`d be taking to the streets in protest even though such an action could be classed as a deterrent. The Saudis cut off the hands of those caught stealing, a deterrent for sure but not something I want in this country either.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 31 Jul 13:23
That would be like the entire population of Perth or Kirkcaldy invading.
What I don`t understand is the point. Cueta is just an enclave. What`s the point of storming it?
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Fri 31 Jul 13:43
Quote:
Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 31 Jul 13:23
That would be like the entire population of Perth or Kirkcaldy invading.
What I don`t understand is the point. Cueta is just an enclave. What`s the point of storming it?
"Just an enclave" You mean just a normal part of Spain that just happens to be detached from the mainland?
They are storming it because it is an enclave.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Fri 31 Jul 14:05
Spain has similar problems to the UK except they’re so much closer to the source of a lot of their illegal migration (Morocco) it’s compounded the problems.
Open-ish borders plus self imposed legal loopholes plus reliance on a neighbour.
Recipe for disaster. Even after their amnesty for migrants.
COYP
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Fri 31 Jul 14:20
A similar problem to the one we have. Folk don`t comply with the law (noting the difference in this case if some clown has been encouraging that they would be accepted) and then the country impacted sticks with the law and struggles to get rid.
Good to see more of the Spanish army turning up today and tightening the border a little, but clearly too little and too late.
I don`t think shooting folk is the answer but if Morocco isn`t defending their side of the border (in the same way France wasn`t until we gave them a stack of cash) then I would like to see fines imposed on the country and some sort of IMF penalties applied).
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Fri 31 Jul 14:50
TOWK - I do get where you`re coming from. Let`s say though that your home gets stormed by 50 migrants - do you stand your ground and defend your family? I certainly wouldn`t hesitate if my 6YO son was threatened by anyone.
Unfortunately, the current state of things and government mismanagement is gonna cause more of this and result in social unrest.
They`re storming Cueta so they can claim refuge inside the EU. Conveniently, they`ll do so with no documents or destroy their documents en route.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 31 Jul 15:39
I`m definitely not saying nothing should be done but if it has to be measured. Can physical force be used to stop people breaching a border? Of course but unless they themselves are using weaponary to do so I can`t believe any civilised nation would be opening fire on such groups. I`m having visions of the opening of Saving Private Ryan except Tom Hank is dressed in jeans and a knock off Real Madrid top and doesn`t have a garand mk1 over his shoulder.
Unfortunately as global warming ramps up and the Sahara encroaches further north and south more and more will make the journey into Europe.
Of course Spain has a particular image problem here. Just a couple of weeks ago Nico Williams set up the goal that won Spain the world cup. His parents made the journey to Spain from Ghana and claimed asylum saying they were from Liberia which was at the time embroiled in a civil war. That must be quite an inspiration, go to Spain and there`s always a chance you or your offspring could become national heroes.
Post Edited (Fri 31 Jul 15:42)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 31 Jul 16:05
Quote:
Bletchley_Par, Fri 31 Jul 13:43
Quote:
Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 31 Jul 13:23
That would be like the entire population of Perth or Kirkcaldy invading.
What I don`t understand is the point. Cueta is just an enclave. What`s the point of storming it?
"Just an enclave" You mean just a normal part of Spain that just happens to be detached from the mainland?
They are storming it because it is an enclave.
No, I mean "enclave" because that`s what it is 🤦♂️
Why storm that particular enclave? It may be "Spain" but you`re on the same continent. They`ve also invaded a tiny area that would never support an influx of that many people. From what`s being reported it sounds like most have already headed home. There`s also suggested the king released a load of prisoners to carry out this invasion.
Presumably there isn`t much of a police force for Cueta, but where are the Spanish army?
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Fri 31 Jul 16:22
Quote:
Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 31 Jul 16:05
Quote:
No, I mean "enclave" because that`s what it is 🤦♂️
Why storm that particular enclave? It may be "Spain" but you`re on the same continent. They`ve also invaded a tiny area that would never support an influx of that many people. From what`s being reported it sounds like most have already headed home. There`s also suggested the king released a load of prisoners to carry out this invasion.
Presumably there isn`t much of a police force for Cueta, but where are the Spanish army?
Why that enclave? why not?
No need to pay people smugglers or navigate the straights of Gib...just march down a beach, shimmy round the sea wall and you`re in Spain.
I`m sure the UK would have been their first choice, but they`ll get their house and benefits from Spain and that can be a jumping off point to anywhere in the EU.
Given the masses of people that have invaded, I don`t think that is how it`s going to work for them.
As we discussed in another thread they not sending their best, I`m sure the "prisoner release" has played a huge part in this.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Fri 31 Jul 16:52
How up to 60k in 24 hours.
There are 74k in the British Army currently.
Staggering.
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Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Fri 31 Jul 17:51
Maybe if we stopped trying to bomb the life out of them they`d be happy where they were.
Its only ourselves to blame.
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Fri 31 Jul 18:15
Quote:
Topic Originator: Tenruh
Date: Fri 31 Jul 17:51
Maybe if we stopped trying to bomb the life out of them they`d be happy where they were.
Its only ourselves to blame
Yes when "we" dropped a few bombs on Morocco at the end of WW2 to kick out the Nazis we were really setting ourselves up there.
"bomb the life out of them" dearie me.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 31 Jul 18:36
48 thousand are now back in Morocco.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: BouncyPar
Date: Fri 31 Jul 19:26
I`ve maybe missed it in the news, but how exactly did the "storming" happen? Presumably 60k didn`t all just turn up coincidentally, so who orchestrated it?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 31 Jul 19:34
Quote:
Bletchley_Par, Fri 31 Jul 16:22
Quote:
Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 31 Jul 16:05
Quote:
No, I mean "enclave" because that`s what it is 🤦♂️
Why storm that particular enclave? It may be "Spain" but you`re on the same continent. They`ve also invaded a tiny area that would never support an influx of that many people. From what`s being reported it sounds like most have already headed home. There`s also suggested the king released a load of prisoners to carry out this invasion.
Presumably there isn`t much of a police force for Cueta, but where are the Spanish army?
Why that enclave? why not?
No need to pay people smugglers or navigate the straights of Gib...just march down a beach, shimmy round the sea wall and you`re in Spain.
I`m sure the UK would have been their first choice, but they`ll get their house and benefits from Spain and that can be a jumping off point to anywhere in the EU.
Given the masses of people that have invaded, I don`t think that is how it`s going to work for them.
As we discussed in another thread they not sending their best, I`m sure the "prisoner release" has played a huge part in this.
But they won`t get anything from that part of Spain. Where would they be housed for a start? The vast majority have already buggered off.
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Fri 31 Jul 19:39
Having seen the scenes of absolute joy, elation, relief, from the people arriving in Ceuta, You`ve got to wonder what kind of place they are trying to get out of, and what they think they are coming to. I spent a bit of time in Ceuta about 20 odd years ago doing a bit of import/ export work and it wasn`t exactly the sort of place you would want to hang about, let me tell you
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Fri 31 Jul 19:42
This is why it started
“The influx comes after Spain`s Supreme Court ruled that migrants stopped at sea while trying to reach Ceuta or Melilla, another Spanish enclave, cannot be summarily returned to Morocco.”
48 people have also died en route to Ceuta in the last 24 hrs.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Fri 31 Jul 19:45
Why would they invade Spain it’s not like they’re invading Spain… they think once they’re in, they’ll be able to disappear.
Some of the footage is terrible. Breaking into women’s houses. Raiding shops. Beating folk up in the streets.
I don’t believe killing people at the border is the right thing to do either but having said that, Poland doesn’t have an illegal migrant problem. I know that a migrant killed a border guard (or something I can’t fully remember the story) and that’s what brought on them having such a strong stance but it… works for them.
Again I don’t think we should be killing folk at borders or drowning them at sea. I’m merely pointing out an extremely strong stance is a deterrent especially when countries roundabout will willingly accept the dregs from Africa, Arabia and Asia.
COYP
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Fri 31 Jul 19:49
Quote:
red-star-par, Fri 31 Jul 19:39
Having seen the scenes of absolute joy, elation, relief, from the people arriving in Ceuta, You`ve got to wonder what kind of place they are trying to get out of, and what they think they are coming to. I spent a bit of time in Ceuta about 20 odd years ago doing a bit of import/ export work and it wasn`t exactly the sort of place you would want to hang about, let me tell you
Aye I seen they were that relieved the first thing they done was launch bricks at the police
COYP
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Fri 31 Jul 20:06
Quote:
Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 31 Jul 19:34
Quote:
But they won`t get anything from that part of Spain. Where would they be housed for a start? The vast majority have already buggered off.
Yes, I said it was not going to work out for them due to the numbers.
If it wasn`t for the other 48,988, the first dozen probably would have had a decent chance of eventually getting to mainland Spain, then anywhere in the EU or one of it`s satellite nations.
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Fri 31 Jul 23:51
Videos of authorities literally driving lorries full of them to the coast. This is obviously as a result of Spain`s recent policy change but also Zionist influences. Spain have been very against Israel and Morocco is very pro-zionist.
It`s a clear attempt to destabilise the West.
Moroccan King just named a street after Donald and just secured diplomatic ties with Israel just before this...
Post Edited (Sat 01 Aug 03:33)
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sat 1 Aug 12:48
History might not repeat itself, but it often rhymes.
For instance the last time there was significant and lasting climate change (i.e. not from a volcano or something changing the climate for a decade or so) was the late bronze age collapse in the late 13th to early 12th centuries BC.
It featured massive waves of migration (they were called "sea people`" because they arrived in boats) which were recorded by the civilizations whose writings have survived.
These records are mostly pleas for help since the chaos resulting from the collapse also led to the breakdown of crucial trade routes and communication systems which caused shortages of essential commodities, further heightening tensions and sparking wars for what resources were available.
Empires were destroyed, or imploded, all over the Mediterranean
But the migration didn`t cause the collapse, the climate shift caused it and the migration was just one of the symptoms, along with trade disruption and wars for resources.
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
Post Edited (Sat 01 Aug 12:50)
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Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Sat 1 Aug 14:12
Israel lending a hand, who`d of thunk it eh, cancerous filth.
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sat 1 Aug 14:55
Quote:
Dandy Warhol, Sat 1 Aug 14:12
Israel lending a hand, who`d of thunk it eh, cancerous filth.
USA being mentioned as well, for speaking out about Gaza and telling them to ram their airbases!😡
Post Edited (Sat 01 Aug 14:56)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 1 Aug 18:21
And still people support the Israeli and US governments. They`re utter *****.
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Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Sun 2 Aug 08:36
Israel needs wiped.
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 2 Aug 09:08
There`s an interview with an Israeli lawyer on the BBC news website. Presumably he`s an educated man, yet he justifies the disproportionate amount of killing of Palestinians as God`s will. The Bible supersedes international law. He`s only one man but you wonder how representative his views are. It`s quite chilling.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 2 Aug 09:30
You`d think with all this evidence of it being Israel`s doing that the usually combative Spanish Prime Minister would just come out and present all this evidence publicly and male some official protests and accusations eh?
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 2 Aug 09:43
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Sun 2 Aug 09:30
You`d think with all this evidence of it being Israel`s doing that the usually combative Spanish Prime Minister would just come out and present all this evidence publicly and male some official protests and accusations eh?
I think folk are mixing up Israel sticking the boot in publicly and needlessly with Israel organising and orchestrating a mass invasion of a Spanish enclave in Africa to destabilise the west.
COYP
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Mon 3 Aug 09:20
Let’s all vote Reform, they will deploy the Royal Navy (whatever’s left of it) to the channel to turn the boats around!
We will forget that sending warships into French waters may be an issue mind you……
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 3 Aug 13:39
Quote:
Dave_1885, Mon 3 Aug 09:20
Let’s all vote Reform, they will deploy the Royal Navy (whatever’s left of it) to the channel to turn the boats around!
We will forget that sending warships into French waters may be an issue mind you……
This was tried under Johnson. It didn`t work.
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Tue 4 Aug 18:44
And they have all gone back now apparently.
Clearly this was orchestrated/Organised.
Some of the screaming headlines by the right wing media are hysterical.
One English woman being interviewed ( almost certainly paid ) crying that her way of life was over…..lol.
What an opportunity we missed in 2014.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Tue 4 Aug 20:08
Whats even better was the poster that Reform used to launch their initiative had a……wait for it…..BRAZILIAN Naval Ship on it 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Fri 28 Aug 15:13
So Cueta.
Thousands of invaders still there, crime has obviously shot up and it`s all the sort of crimes you`d expect. The place looks like a shyteh0le.
Red cross lorries now blocked by locals from entering and locals storming the migrant camps on the beach.
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Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Fri 28 Aug 16:16
Spain really needs to send their armed forces in there to clear those beaches...give them rubber bullets and let them use them.
Better still, ask the Poles to do it!
It really should be a case of anyone entering the EU illegally receives a permanent ban on ever gaining any residency status in any Member State. Take their Fingerprints, DNA, Dental records etc and keep it in a Europe-wide database that all countries have access to. If Brussels refuse to implement legislation to support this, then get the individual states to do it unilaterally.
Honestly, find it ridiculous that we`re getting to this stage!
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Fri 28 Aug 17:06
Quote:
Bletchley_Par, Fri 28 Aug 15:13
So Cueta.
Thousands of invaders still there, crime has obviously shot up and it`s all the sort of crimes you`d expect. The place looks like a shyteh0le.
Red cross lorries now blocked by locals from entering and locals storming the migrant camps on the beach.
Where did you see this? I was wondering why it had all went quiet on the cueta front
COYP
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 28 Aug 20:36
Quote:
NMCmassive, Fri 28 Aug 17:06
Quote:
Bletchley_Par, Fri 28 Aug 15:13
So Cueta.
Thousands of invaders still there, crime has obviously shot up and it`s all the sort of crimes you`d expect. The place looks like a shyteh0le.
Red cross lorries now blocked by locals from entering and locals storming the migrant camps on the beach.
Where did you see this? I was wondering why it had all went quiet on the cueta front
The news. They stopped aid coming in and then smashed/burnt camps on the beach.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 28 Aug 20:37
Quote:
hurricane_jimmy, Fri 28 Aug 16:16
Spain really needs to send their armed forces in there to clear those beaches...give them rubber bullets and let them use them.
Better still, ask the Poles to do it!
It really should be a case of anyone entering the EU illegally receives a permanent ban on ever gaining any residency status in any Member State. Take their Fingerprints, DNA, Dental records etc and keep it in a Europe-wide database that all countries have access to. If Brussels refuse to implement legislation to support this, then get the individual states to do it unilaterally.
Honestly, find it ridiculous that we`re getting to this stage!
This should be getting done anyway. No doubt we don`t have info sharing agreements with the rest of the EU anymore thanks to that flower Farage.
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Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Sat 29 Aug 11:30
Behaving like animals but aye, let`s get more in.
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sat 29 Aug 13:46
Quote:
Dandy Warhol, Sat 29 Aug 11:30
Behaving like animals but aye, let`s get more in.
Can blame Nige for the boats, you know since they started with Brexit
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Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Sun 30 Aug 11:01
Quote:
Dave_1885, Sat 29 Aug 13:46
Quote:
Dandy Warhol, Sat 29 Aug 11:30
Behaving like animals but aye, let`s get more in.
Can blame Nige for the boats, you know since they started with Brexit
Eh?
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Sun 30 Aug 16:28
Quote:
Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Sun 30 Aug 11:01
Quote:
Eh?
They are only programmed to respond with Farage/Reform/Brexit, Trump or Israel...it`s how every thread goes.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 30 Aug 19:26
It’s a disservice to call it TDS. It’s more like FITDS.
Jesus I forgot Brexit
FITBDS
COYP
Post Edited (Sun 30 Aug 19:27)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 30 Aug 20:34
But what Dave has said is correct. Farage, Johnson etc spoke of taking back control and kicking out Johnny Foreigner. Since Brexit, boat crossing and illegal immigration have increased enormously. If we want to get a bit Yaxley-Lennon, so has migration of Muslims. Fewer Europeans coming here to work, more people from the far east and Africa.
Basic facts.
Of course, if you vote in Reform they will definitely stop the boats. Deffo...even if it means their pals losing lots of money on hotel contracts.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sun 30 Aug 21:10
Quote:
jake89, Sun 30 Aug 20:34
But what Dave has said is correct. Farage, Johnson etc spoke of taking back control and kicking out Johnny Foreigner. Since Brexit, boat crossing and illegal immigration have increased enormously. If we want to get a bit Yaxley-Lennon, so has migration of Muslims. Fewer Europeans coming here to work, more people from the far east and Africa.
Basic facts.
Of course, if you vote in Reform they will definitely stop the boats. Deffo...even if it means their pals losing lots of money on hotel contracts.
Except they wont, as the Navy would just tell them to F off 😂
The fact illegal crossing has gone up drastically since Brexit doesn’t sit well with the Farage/Trump lovers - because they cant face the fact they got lied to years ago.
Whatever happened to the £350m a week for the NHS btw? 🤔
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 30 Aug 23:45
The £350million can be found in the same place as the 2024 Labour manifesto and that’s actually parked up next to a luxury camper van. The campervan was full of luxury clothes, bags and watches. They were last seen being worn by Nicola Sturgeon but according to her, she’s never seen them herself.
Or we could start talking about Baron “abolish the lords” Sarwar, George “Oil for food” Galloway, Lord Ahmed, Paul Clark, Eric Joyce… trust me it’ll just keep getting worse.
As would the Tories btw
And every other political party
It would be a total throwaway waste of time and p1551n contest that could go on forever.
So we could look at reality or you can have your wee ball tickling exercises between yourselves.
COYP
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Mon 31 Aug 09:22
Quote:
NMCmassive, Sun 30 Aug 23:45
The £350million can be found in the same place as the 2024 Labour manifesto and that’s actually parked up next to a luxury camper van. The campervan was full of luxury clothes, bags and watches. They were last seen being worn by Nicola Sturgeon but according to her, she’s never seen them herself.
Or we could start talking about Baron “abolish the lords” Sarwar, George “Oil for food” Galloway, Lord Ahmed, Paul Clark, Eric Joyce… trust me it’ll just keep getting worse.
As would the Tories btw
And every other political party
It would be a total throwaway waste of time and p1551n contest that could go on forever.
So we could look at reality or you can have your wee ball tickling exercises between yourselves.
*Nothing to see here folks, totally didn`t happen.
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Topic Originator: Tad Allagash
Date: Mon 31 Aug 10:56
NHS spending has actually increased by more than £2billion per week since the Brexit referendum to be fair.
I’m not saying that’s because of Brexit. NHS spending has always gone up, even during ‘austerity’.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Mon 31 Aug 11:34
Spending on everything thing in the last decade has increased though Ted. 30 billion more on defence, 15 billion more on policing, 53 billion more on the state pension.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 31 Aug 17:07
Quote:
Tad Allagash, Mon 31 Aug 10:56
NHS spending has actually increased by more than £2billion per week since the Brexit referendum to be fair.
I’m not saying that’s because of Brexit. NHS spending has always gone up, even during ‘austerity’.
That`s the NHS England budget. Few basic things being ignored though.
- Inflation
- Growing population
- Aging population
- Significant wage rises following years of below inflation pay rises
- Over reliance on agency staff
- PFI costs.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Mon 31 Aug 17:59
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Mon 31 Aug 11:34
Spending on everything thing in the last decade has increased though Ted. 30 billion more on defence, 15 billion more on policing, 53 billion more on the state pension.
Delighted with the state pension spending TOWK .. Mon the Auld Yins
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Mon 31 Aug 18:10
This triple lock will kill us all.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Mon 31 Aug 19:56
Maybe just give the oldies the minimum wage?🤔
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 31 Aug 21:20
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Mon 31 Aug 19:56
Maybe just give the oldies the minimum wage?🤔
Because that would be considerably more.
£1800 a month after tax (if no pension). However, a single person then has to spend an average of £1000 on rent in Scotland. Then they have gas, leccy, internet that on a small property would be maybe £150? Then the same for council tax. So that`s £1300 meaning the person has just over £100 a week to live off. That`s assuming no kids, car, holidays.
This is likely why many choose not to work. Minimum wage was supposed to be a MINIMUM but it`s an excuse to pay peanuts to roles considered low skill. Unfortunately, those "low skill" jobs include people like carers and personal assistants.
The triple lock isn`t sustainable but then neither is the state pension generally. This is why the government has pretty much forced people to have a workplace pension. My view is more should be done in school to educate kids on money and pensions. I`ve always had a pension but must confess I have no clue how they work or how much I have in mine. The annual statements are just gobbledygook. When I get the next one I`ll probably ask ChatGPT to translate it for me.
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Topic Originator: Jimmy riddell
Date: Mon 31 Aug 21:45
The Old Age Pension in this country is targeted to be around one third of average earnings. Currently around £12,500 versus £38,000. The triple lock in recent years has helped to get there as old age pensions in the Uk were lagging significantly behind other European and Western countries. We are now roughly in the middle.
Private sector pensions in this country are now substantially behind those in the public sector who continue to enjoy final salary or defined benefit schemes. Final salary schemes have largely disappeared over the years in the private sector thanks to Gordon Brown.
Employers in the private sector have to contribute a minimum of 3% of salary and the average contribution is about 6%.
In the public sector the average employer (us) contribution is around 25% which varies across different sectors. The police, for example, is about 35%.
Higher public sector pensions used to be justified because they were paid less than the private sector. That is no longer the case. They also enjoy more job security.
This differential is no longer sustainable given the pressure on public finances.
This elephant in the room needs to be tackled ….. but I won’t hold my breath.
The triple lock is not the problem.
Post Edited (Mon 31 Aug 21:49)
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Mon 31 Aug 21:47
You`re definitely best understanding it as early as you can jake as compounding can do a lot of good.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Mon 31 Aug 21:53
The triple lock definitely as a problem. It is clearly not sustainable over time.
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Topic Originator: Jimmy riddell
Date: Mon 31 Aug 21:57
Unfunded public sector pensions cost the UK taxpayers £56billion in 25/26.
The total estimated long-term liability stands at around £1.3 trillion.
This is not included in the overall national debt of around £3 trillion.
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Topic Originator: Jimmy riddell
Date: Mon 31 Aug 21:59
There are bigger spending issues that need to be addressed before the triple lock.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Mon 31 Aug 22:16
We need to do multiple things concurrently.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Mon 31 Aug 22:39
Still one of the lowest old age pensions in the Western world and most will have the privilege of paying tax next year if it goes over £12570pa.
Women born in the fifties were not allowed to join pension schemes, nor allowed to sign financial agreements, a male dominated world back then.
But then again "benefits " are not taxed.🤔
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 1 Sep 09:25
The public sector in Scotland hasn`t had a final salary scheme since 2015. Career average is used generally.
Typically pensions are better in the public sector as the pay is poor by comparison. That`s not always true though. People focus on the pretty poor pay for carers and nurses but ignore that there will be doctors and service managers earning a small fortune and thus getting well paid AND an excellent pension.
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Topic Originator: Jimmy riddell
Date: Tue 1 Sep 16:30
From a Research Briefing.House of Commons Library (27th April, 2026):
Trends in Public Sector Pay
“In April 2025 median weekly earnings for full-time employees in the public sector were 7% higher than those in the private sector. The gap had been narrowing before the pandemic but increased again in 2020, partly because of the private sector’s greater use of furlough (when employees were paid 80% of their usual salary while they were unable to work during lockdowns). The gap has been narrowing again since 2021 and it has remained at 7% over the last two years.”
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Tue 1 Sep 16:57
I wouldnt put too much value on that analysis if you look a bit deeper into the back-up data. Most of the analysis seems to be "Not classified" rather than public or private.
Whenever I ever looked for a public role that was equivalent to private sector roles I was doing they were always significantly lower paid. It certainly was the pension that balanced things up a bit.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 1 Sep 21:29
I`ve worked in both and it depends on roles. Fairly standard "officer" level roles are poorly paid but manager positions tend to be on par or slightly better. The key problem is people in the public sector who get those decent jobs cling onto them for dear life! You also typically start at the bottom of the grade in the public sector making moving between organisations unattractive.
Back to the point at hand - pensions are the single biggest expenditure in terms of benefits. Pretty much the same cost as disability, unemployment and child benefits added together.
The state pension is unsustainable but that doesn`t mean screw the pensioners. Personally, I can see the state pension becoming only for those below a certain income/savings. My goal is to have the mortgage paid off and a few quid stashed away before I retire. However, that`ll rely on continuing to spend wisely.
My view will always be that no-one should be sleeping rough or in poverty but the state should be a helping hand rather than something to rely on. Easier said than done though when wages are low, jobs are often inflexible for parents (and childcare expensive) and business wants to keep people below certain thresholds so they can get UC top ups.
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Wed 2 Sep 01:03
State pension is not a benefit……..
What an opportunity we missed in 2014.
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Wed 2 Sep 02:54
Yes it is. It benefits you in later life.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 2 Sep 10:10
Quote:
desparado, Wed 2 Sept 01:03
State pension is not a benefit……..
It is. A contributory benefit. I see your point though as many benefits you get regardless of how much you`ve paid in.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Wed 2 Sep 10:27
When you reach the age of retirement you have to claim your state pension, it is not an automatic payment.
Therefore it should be classed as a "benefit" just the same as other "benefits"
Depending on which party is in power and what the argument is about the State Pension changes from a "benefit" to a "entitlement".
Post Edited (Wed 02 Sep 10:31)
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Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Thu 3 Sep 08:11
Back on topic, Cueta looks like a third world slum now, rampant and blatant looting, sexual assaults and yet we`re expected to welcome these people.
Animals.
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
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Topic Originator: BouncyPar
Date: Thu 3 Sep 09:47
Interesting to read the reports and see the videos of "fighting aged" white men, including football hooligans, traveling en masses across the sea to a different continent with the sole intent of causing violence and destruction. These Spaniards have been caught on camera traveling to Cueta, assaulting anyone in their path including local residents, who simply have darker skin than the thugs would like.
Post Edited (Thu 03 Sep 09:48)
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Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Thu 3 Sep 11:56
Quote:
BouncyPar, Thu 3 Sept 09:47
Interesting to read the reports and see the videos of "fighting aged" white men, including football hooligans, traveling en masses across the sea to a different continent with the sole intent of causing violence and destruction. These Spaniards have been caught on camera traveling to Cueta, assaulting anyone in their path including local residents, who simply have darker skin than the thugs would like.
About time people fought back against the animals.
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
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Topic Originator: BouncyPar
Date: Thu 3 Sep 12:09
Quote:
Dandy Warhol, Thu 3 Sept 11:56
About time people fought back against the animals.
Which group are you referring to, the Spaniards who went over with only violence in mind, or the local Cueta citizens born and raised there who have been seriously assaulted because of their skin colour?
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Thu 3 Sep 15:13
Sure there was a quite famous group 33-45 who enjoyed calling humans animals. Interesting
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Fri 4 Sep 17:31
It’s funny but is a pension a benefit? It’s a bit like is food a human right? A state pension definitely is a form of benefit IMO but it’s a benefit the majority of us should be owed.
The problem is more and more are relying on benefits whether that’s to top up wages or paying their rent. Both bills are going up and the tax income is on a decline from what I can tell.
COYP
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Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Sat 5 Sep 10:14
Quote:
Andrew283, Thu 3 Sept 15:13
Sure there was a quite famous group 33-45 who enjoyed calling humans animals. Interesting
Behave like dirty animals, get called dirty animals.
The pandering to these animals will stop when it hits your area.
Cueta residents chased from their home, excrement thrown at them.
I`ll say it again, dirty, savage, animals.
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Sat 5 Sep 11:28
They are killing baby dolphins.
Clearly some form of pamphlet is required to tell them not to do it.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 5 Sep 15:23
Quote:
NMCmassive, Fri 4 Sept 17:31
It’s funny but is a pension a benefit? It’s a bit like is food a human right? A state pension definitely is a form of benefit IMO but it’s a benefit the majority of us should be owed.
The problem is more and more are relying on benefits whether that’s to top up wages or paying their rent. Both bills are going up and the tax income is on a decline from what I can tell.
It`s a contributory benefit. You only get the full amount it you`ve paid enough.
Benefits are a tough one. They`re meant to help those in need as a short term solution but I can completely understand why someone with a couple of kids would choose benefits over work. The issue is it`s not then fair on people grafting hard to be living next door to someone who doesnt work and gets "paid" much the same while having the security that their landlord won`t evict them.
While I`d support greater reviews of benefits, I`d rather the government spent more investigating and closing tax loopholes.
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Sat 5 Sep 15:58
Your thought on couples with children preferring benefits to employment reads like a something from a Reform pamphlet Jake. Have you switched sides?
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sat 5 Sep 16:19
Jake, didn’t you know that you’re supposed to refer to the political stance of your party before thinking for yourself?
COYP
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Sat 5 Sep 17:04
Jake`s been glitching quite often of late, maybe he missed the last BBQ?
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sat 5 Sep 17:44
Quote:
buffy, Sat 5 Sept 15:58
Your thought on couples with children preferring benefits to employment reads like a something from a Reform pamphlet Jake. Have you switched sides?
I`m sure it is the sensible economic decision for some, unfortunately.
ETA..... this was quite enlightening to me the impact that policy can have on days off sick, for example. But for those dropping out of the system that don't get long term state support, things must be very bleak indeed.
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct9995
Post Edited (Sat 05 Sep 17:49)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 5 Sep 21:19
Quote:
buffy, Sat 5 Sept 15:58
Your thought on couples with children preferring benefits to employment reads like a something from a Reform pamphlet Jake. Have you switched sides?
Not at all, though it seems people have read it that way!
What I mean is I can completely understand why people with kids would go for benefits over a job (and I`m not suggesting benefits are an easy ride either!). I`m really fortunate to have never been unemployed and have a family who could support me if need be. Few people have that security.
Despite all the free nursery hours, most are still running to school hours. I`ve been through the private nursery bills and it`s not nice. I have a mortgage but when I see the rents I genuinely wonder how people survive. A basic 2/3 bed house in Dunfermline is over a grand a month. Just look at the numbers:
£1000 rent
£200+ council tax
£200 energy bills
If you`re doing 37 hours a week as a carer or working in Costa, Tesco etc you`re lucky if you have £1800 a month after tax/NI. So that`s under £100 a week for food and travel and assumes you never go on holiday or have an unexpected expense like a car breaking down or a school trip.
Then you have the worry over the landlord raising the rent or wanting you out as they`re selling up or fed up of you moaning about the damp.
We should be in a society where working allows you to live rather than just survive, and benefits are there to support people to properly get back on their feet.
So, for clarity:
- I`m glad we have a benefits service
- Think more needs done to increase wages/reduce cost of living
- Would prefer the Government went after rich tax dodgers and crooks than Ben who`s not declaring his side hustle bringing him an extra few quid each month.
- I would take no greater joy than repeatedly smacking Farage and Lowe`s heads together.
- These are just my thoughts and they may change over time (except smacking that pair of utter *****)
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 6 Sep 00:37
Jake, all you done was ask a perfectly reasonable question. Looking at things from multiple perspectives is a sign of intelligence. Don’t let snarky comments from people who only want you to think what they think, get in your way.
What you said had absolutely F all to do with reform or any other political party and it had everything to do with problem solving complex issues while trying to find what you feel is a reasonable and fair position and you gain real respect from others for being able to do that.
You’re better without people who demand you hold a certain political position on a certain subject. It’s brain rot. When it happens to enough people in a community, it ends in extremism - every single time.
COYP
Post Edited (Sun 06 Sep 00:38)
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Sun 6 Sep 02:26
I think I know Jake well enough to know where he stands on topics such as this, and his response was very good (and appreciative).
You’d do well to learn from posters who can construct posts and replies without the need for childish insults, NMC.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
Post Edited (Sun 06 Sep 02:56)
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 6 Sep 10:16
👀👀👀
That’s so revealing.
Jake made a point. You immediately told him it sounded like a Reform pamphlet and asked if he’d “switched sides”. He then explained himself at length and reassured everyone where he stood politically, after which you told him his response was “very good”.
That read so patronising. You were basically giving him a nice wee pat on the head. Good boy…
Who is Buffy and why do you gate-keep Jake’s political opinions?
Jake is entitled to reach whatever conclusion he wants on an individual issue without having to demonstrate his political loyalty to anyone first. If you disagree with the argument, attack the argument. If your first instinct is to identify which political tribe an opinion belongs to, you’re not really debating the issue at all.
He maybe doesn’t realise it yet Buffy but he’s far more intelligent than you’ll ever be. You’ve done him up like a kipper here though
COYP
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Sun 6 Sep 10:43
Would ye like a shovel with that spade NMC? Keep going though ~ this is hilarious!
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
Post Edited (Sun 06 Sep 11:03)
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 6 Sep 11:06
Quote:
buffy, Sun 6 Sep 10:43
Would ye like a shovel with that spade NMC? Keep going though ~ this is hilarious!
Your reply to me pointing out you were trying to tell him what to think was you knew what he thinks…
COYP
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 6 Sep 11:07
I wasn`t concerned by Buffy`s post. It was perfectly reasonable. Reform are definitely the "them" in the "them and us" scenario. Blatant crooks but still people vote for them. I can understand why, but people need to realise it`s easy to snipe from the sidelines when you don`t have to make things work. Farage is the biggest flower in politics.
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Topic Originator: NMCmassive
Date: Sun 6 Sep 11:09
Quote:
jake89, Sun 6 Sep 11:07
I wasn`t concerned by Buffy`s post. It was perfectly reasonable. Reform are definitely the "them" in the "them and us" scenario. Blatant crooks but still people vote for them. I can understand why, but people need to realise it`s easy to snipe from the sidelines when you don`t have to make things work. Farage is the biggest flower in politics.
You shouldn’t accuse anyone of being a flower petal, you’ve just let yourself be told what to say
COYP
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sun 6 Sep 13:52
Reform are digging massive holes for themselves with the tripe they are coming out with now. And still people will vote for them.
Remember the “£20k tax free” pledge……well that’s already down to £15k because they’ve realised its completely unworkable.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sun 6 Sep 14:08
I think they are saying £20k is still the plan but they are committing to £15k from the start.
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Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Mon 7 Sep 08:35
Reform, wallopers they are, aren`t really anything to do with the plight of Cueta`s residents.
Imagine going to the shop and getting human waste thrown at you, only to find the shop has been rinsed.
And some on here reckon we should take more.
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 7 Sep 11:15
Quote:
NMCmassive, Sun 6 Sept 11:09
Quote:
jake89, Sun 6 Sep 11:07
I wasn`t concerned by Buffy`s post. It was perfectly reasonable. Reform are definitely the "them" in the "them and us" scenario. Blatant crooks but still people vote for them. I can understand why, but people need to realise it`s easy to snipe from the sidelines when you don`t have to make things work. Farage is the biggest flower in politics.
You shouldn’t accuse anyone of being a flower petal, you’ve just let yourself be told what to say
I`m not that insecure that I care. Buffy`s someone whose views and opinions I respect.
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Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Mon 14 Sep 12:25
Women being raped in Cueta, an 11 year old girl raped.
But yeah, let`s bring more in huh.
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
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