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 Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Wed 9 Sep 19:27

New thread created as requested.



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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 9 Sep 19:43

About bloody time well done towk
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 9 Sep 21:14

Since July :-

"I want to be absolutely clear, these measures are not another national lockdown. The whole point of them is to avoid a second national lockdown," Mr Johnson said in the first Downing Street coronavirus briefing since July.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 09:08

From Aunty :-

Scientists and health professionals have raised doubts about Prime Minister Boris Johnson's "Operation Moonshot" plan for mass coronavirus testing.

The PM hopes millions of Covid-19 tests - including some giving results within minutes - could be processed daily.

But experts say there are issues with laboratory capacity for current tests, while the technology for more rapid tests "does not, as yet, exist".


Making it up as he blunders on
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 09:25

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-scientists-doubtful-as-leaked-government-document-reveals-plans-for-10-million-tests-by-next-year-12067722
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 09:28

It could cost £100bn! He loves a catchy phrase though. Now we've got 'Operation Moonshot' and 'Rule of Six'.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 10:18

Seems 6 is just a random number, no rhyme nor reason for been set at that!

Maybe 6 sounds better in the propoganda speech?🤔
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 10:23

NHS Scotland's new trace and contact app is now live and available to download. Time to find out who is all talk when it comes down to helping protect the vulnerable.

There's battle lines being drawn Nobody's right if everybody is wrong.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 10:56

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Thu 10 Sep 10:18

Seems 6 is just a random number, no rhyme nor reason for been set at that!

Maybe 6 sounds better in the propoganda speech?🤔


I think both Scotland and England analyse the data that comes back from their track and trace systems and target the restrictions against gatherings based on what they've seen cause spikes.

I think people then get frustrated at the inconsistencies it throws up. How can you get on a bus with x amount of randoms in a confined space but you can't get extended families together etc..
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 11:34

Could it be because people act differently in different surroundings?
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 11:46

What I don't get is that if it's so vital why announce it on a Wednesday but not implement it until the following Monday?
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 12:01

Quote:

wee eck, Thu 10 Sep 11:34

Could it be because people act differently in different surroundings?


It might well be and in fairness to both the UK and Scottish Governments I don't doubt they are trying to react as best they can to the trends they see in the data they collect but I can also understand people getting frustrated at not being able to do some things, that, on the face of it don't seem to have more risk than others.

Using Rasta's example you can go and sit in an office surrounded by far more than 6 people and thats OK but you can't have folk round. They might well have seen more of a trend in house gatherings but to most folk it won't feel like more of a risk and you have to ask yourself - if they had seen an increase in trends of infection rates in offices would they take the same restrictive access or keep the economy moving?

Post Edited (Thu 10 Sep 12:02)
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 12:15

The current SG guidance is to work at home if you possibly can. The general public doesn't always understand that the medical and scientific people giving the guidance to politicians have been studying viruses for years and their advice is based on that experience.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 12:27

https://youtu.be/_Yzau0N_1qs

The end of this smashes it..
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 12:31

Quote:

wee eck, Thu 10 Sep 12:15

The current SG guidance is to work at home if you possibly can. The general public doesn't always understand that the medical and scientific people giving the guidance to politicians have been studying viruses for years and their advice is based on that experience.


Not everyone can work from home though and there have been outbreaks of the virus at a few food processing companies which hasn't led to wider closures or restrictions other than temporary closures of the factories impacted.

People see the inconsistency between when its apparently safe for you to go to work and compare it to the restriction on seeing people and a lot are going to think its unfair.

Remember construction workers in England were seeing outbreaks when sites in Scotland were closed. The decision isn't always science based there is an economic impact factored into the decision too.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 12:43

You've now switched your argument from offices to factories. Jobs in a factory are unlikely to be capable of being done from home and they're also likely to involve essential products and services. It's not a black and white decision, it involves assessing risk.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 12:49

If there is a balancing act going on I think most reasonable people will appreciate that it might perhaps be slightly weighted towards ensuring the economy can function as much as possible. That way people can work and pay tax that helps to fund the schools, benefit payments, life saving health treatments, etc. Of course the trade off is that for a little while longer we can't get back to full socialising in places where it is difficult to socially distance like people's homes. I don't think if any fair minded person was to look at it objectively they would say it was unreasonable.

There's battle lines being drawn Nobody's right if everybody is wrong.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 13:16

Sorry I did say offices but I did mean go to work in general so I should have been more specific.

You're right the risks across all of factory/office and construction site are all different and need to be assessed differently but for those that can't work from home in a non essential industry, the Government are still happy for them to go to an office which could have significantly more than six people in them whilst simultaneously imposing restrictions on what can be done outside of work.

There is still risk in going into an office and its hard to see how that is not at least on a par with people meeting in their homes.

I'm all for following the rules by the way and I'm not saying people shouldn't but I can see why people would look at the inconsistent approach to certain aspects of the decisions particularly those that involve spending or generating money and get frustrated.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 13:35

I would reiterate my point that the general public don't have the knowledge or experience to make these value judgements. Everyone's an expert nowadays after they've done a wee bit research on the internet. I would imagine it's easier to impose and monitor the various mitigating measures that are recommended in an office than it is in a private house.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 14:18

Quote:

londonparsfan, Thu 10 Sep 13:16

Sorry I did say offices but I did mean go to work in general so I should have been more specific.

You're right the risks across all of factory/office and construction site are all different and need to be assessed differently but for those that can't work from home in a non essential industry, the Government are still happy for them to go to an office which could have significantly more than six people in them whilst simultaneously imposing restrictions on what can be done outside of work.

There is still risk in going into an office and its hard to see how that is not at least on a par with people meeting in their homes.

I'm all for following the rules by the way and I'm not saying people shouldn't but I can see why people would look at the inconsistent approach to certain aspects of the decisions particularly those that involve spending or generating money and get frustrated.


Have you been in an office recently. Yes there are people in offices. The ones I have been in are well nigh deserted. About 20% of staff are in. Most on rotas. So maybe a couple of days a week at most. Strict 2m distance must be maintained. Staff in the offices I have visited must put on masks to move around the office but can remove whilst at their desks.

Quite frankly I would rather work from home then have these restrictions imposed. Plus I wouldn't have to use the bus.

Do you think people meeting at home would be happy to follow the restrictions imposed on the office workers? I.e. you can sit on the sofa at least 2m from the next person and if you move put on a mask.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 15:14

<There is still risk in going into an office and its hard to see how that is not at least on a par with people meeting in their homes.>

I echo Moviescot.

I've been back at the office for over a month.

5 people in the area that accommodated 18 before.
All at least 2m apart
Masks must be worn when moving away from desk, be it to pee, get a cuppa, converse with someone, enter/leave the building.

I can just see people doing that at home... not.



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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 15:29

No I haven't but the company I work for is a large multinational that's actually quite big on health and safety so staff in our offices in the UK were told to work from home unless it was essential they were in the office before any of the Governments in the UK had put any kind of lock down in place.

A lot of the rest of the mitigating factors you've listed aren't required by law which is kind of the point. Its down to individual companies what the rules are but people that can't work from home will still be expected to turn up. Face coverings aren't mandatory and two meter distancing applies "where possible". So while you're earning money its OK not to have face coverings mandated by law but when you have to get the bus to work you need to wear one.

Just came across this so some experts (Some folk disagree with Ferguson but he's always struck me as being more concerned with people's safety rather than the economic impact) are actually saying there should be a pause in returning to work:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/10/neil-ferguson-expert-questions-drive-to-get-people-back-into-offices-in-england

Looks like he sees a risk there..
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 15:48

Quote:

Luxembourg Par, Thu 10 Sep 15:14

<There is still risk in going into an office and its hard to see how that is not at least on a par with people meeting in their homes.>

I echo Moviescot.

I've been back at the office for over a month.

5 people in the area that accommodated 18 before.
All at least 2m apart
Masks must be worn when moving away from desk, be it to pee, get a cuppa, converse with someone, enter/leave the building.

I can just see people doing that at home... not.



I'm not saying they would. I'm saying what is described in the offices by MS isn't mandated by law and will vary significantly by company. Not everyone will work for companies that seem to be taking the decent precautions as the companies that you and I work for.

It will seem strange to some people that you don't have the legal requirement to have things like face masks at work and be around more than six people but its considered a risk outside of work.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 17:34

It does seem strange that all companies are not following strict guidelines. I thought they had a duty to provide a safe working environment.
What I described seems to me to be as safe as it can be made. If employers are not following at least these guidelines then I would be very unhappy to go back to work.
To be fair I've only been in 3 offices recently but they were all following these guidelines as a minimum. For clarity one was a local company and two were multi national.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 18:01

There are obviously health and safety laws that mean you have to provide a safe working environment but how companies get there is up to them in many cases. If they don't follow guidelines and something goes wrong I'd imagine it would add a negligence angle to their conduct and I do think the majority of companies will try and do the right thing. Its not really that different in respect that some groups of people would go into a house and follow guidelines and others would go into a house and turn it into Lux's meme.

I actually don't disagree with the changes being introduced. Personally I'm on the side of not taking risks with people's lives and possibly on the more risk adverse side of the argument but I do think there are differences in the way risk to people is assessed when money is involved (despite the fact I'm not qualified to make that decision I don't see how it wouldn't be).

I think where those discrepancies in risk tolerance exist (or at least are perceived to exist by unqualified people such as myself) then it makes it harder to encourage people to comply.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 18:42

Don't you think that, to a great extent, people are looking for an excuse not to comply? There's a terrible 'blame' culture in society today and it's easier to blame governments rather than take personal responsibility.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 18:51

There are some complete wallopers out there. Its impossible to avoid them as soon as you look at social media. I don't know to what extent they are a fair representation though compared to folk that may have a more legitimate gripe with the changes.

Depending on what you're looking at on Facebook or Twitter it can feel as many as 100% of them though that would moan for the sake of moaning.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 22:02

Quote:

wee eck, Thu 10 Sep 18:42

Don't you think that, to a great extent, people are looking for an excuse not to comply? There's a terrible 'blame' culture in society today and it's easier to blame governments rather than take personal responsibility.


When we have one government spending every waking hour of every day blaming another, it's hardly a surprise that the plebs copy them....

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 22:47

''When we have one government spending every waking hour of every day blaming another, it's hardly a surprise that the plebs copy them...''

That's not what's happening though is it and everyone should know by now which government is relevant to them.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 10 Sep 23:04

We'd better hope folk aren't copying the UK Government or their employees as apparently you can pick and choose the laws you abide by!
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 08:24

Half a million downloads of the NHS Scotland trace and protect app in the first 24 hours. Encouraging start.

There's battle lines being drawn Nobody's right if everybody is wrong.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 10:14

No more daily updates, BBC pulling the plug, go online if you want info!😡
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: Parfect68  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 10:46

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Fri 11 Sep 10:14

No more daily updates, BBC pulling the plug, go online if you want info!😡


Made my first ever complaint to BBC today about this. This is not political, this is public health and to deny some people access to key messages is beyond the pale. Not everyone accesses the Internet. News updates are incomplete. Ffs it was being shown in BBC Scotland, at a time when programmes don't normally run so it wasn't interrupting any essential viewing. If someone doesn't want to watch it, dont! But don't hinder one of the key communication tools in this global pandemic.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: Parfect68  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 10:52

And for those that think we're over reacting and this is a con, I'll be very happy 12months down the line to look back and say we over reacted but at this point we dont know what we don't know, we're essentially having to react than be proactive, and as we find out more over time the guidance changes to more proactive stance. Be individual, do as you see fit but make that call for yourselves, but ensure that whatever you do doesn't have a negative impact on others....otherwise that is ultimately selfish.

Post Edited (Fri 11 Sep 10:53)
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: BigJPar  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 10:57

Quote:

Parfect68, Fri 11 Sep 10:52

And for those that think we're over reacting and this is a con, I'll be very happy 12months down the line to look back and say we over reacted but at this point we dont know what we don't know, we're essentially having to react than be proactive, and as we find out more over time the guidance changes to more proactive stance. Be individual, do as you see fit but make that call for yourselves, but ensure that whatever you do doesn't have a negative impact on others....otherwise that is ultimately selfish.


The cases are rising, no doubt about it.
It's mostly young people though, with deaths miniscule.
If I was at risk I'd be taking responsibility for my own health.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 11:06

I bet half the folk moaning about this don't even watch it.

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 11:41

I don't watch it everyday but do tune in once in a while as its an important source of information. The fact its been taken off air simply because it gives an insight into what a semi competent politician actually looks like is a disgrace. Absolute desperation from the Tories and the kind of stunt you would expect in China or Russia.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 12:21

I thought the BBC was supposed to be a Public Service broadcaster?
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 14:28

Quote:

wee eck, Fri 11 Sep 12:21

I thought the BBC was supposed to be a Public Service broadcaster?


No no you have it wrong. It's Tory broadcaster. The Tories think Nicola is making it to political and using it to criticise Westminster.

I've watched a lot of these and imo she had been quite careful not to criticise any of the UK governments.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 15:57

A lot of the media questions are aimed at trying to get NS to criticise Westminster or create some divide between the two governments. In the main she is too astute to fall into these traps although I think she has admitted that occasionally she has made a political point in her responses. If the Tories have objected to the BBC giving the SNP a platform it's because NS has demonstrated the command of her brief and the political and communication skills and leadership which set her apart from any other politician in the UK.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 17:03

Less and less desire to pay for a TV license if this is what the Tory run BBC are going to get up to. About the only decent things I watch on it are Graham Norton and View from a Terrace and I don't even know if that's coming back this season
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 17:07

Aye the beeb is fair brimming with right wingers.

There's battle lines being drawn Nobody's right if everybody is wrong.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 18:04

I don't think the BBC is necessarily that biased but this is a poor decision.

On a separate note, I wouldn't be too upset if the BBC went to pay-per-view as it's incredibly rare I watch it. I'm straight onto Netflix or Amazon Prime. The disappointing thing would be for those who can only afford "Cooncil telly" and could be cut off without it.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 18:18

I actually use the BBC services quite often. Less so for the TV but often for their online content and radio.

There's battle lines being drawn Nobody's right if everybody is wrong.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 18:27

What a state to get in. Do you all stop working to watch this every day?

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 18:29

Oh aye what a state. We're all in a right frenzy over it aren't we.

There's battle lines being drawn Nobody's right if everybody is wrong.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 18:44

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Fri 11 Sep 18:29

Oh aye what a state. We're all in a right frenzy over it aren't we.


Yeah. Other issues are available

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 18:54

Haven't you seen the millions thronging the streets demanding that the Beeb start broadcasting the daily updates again and not just online where so many people now get their news.

There's battle lines being drawn Nobody's right if everybody is wrong.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 19:29

Looks like Scotland has the largest estimated R number now unfortunately.Home visits now banned in Lanarkshire meaning that 1.7 million Scots currently under restriction.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54116939
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 21:00

Yeah she's handled it brilliantly right enough

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 22:18

Quote:

da_no_1, Fri 11 Sep 21:00

Yeah she's handled it brilliantly right enough


Not that it's a competition, but we'll see what happens elsewhere in the UK in a couple of weeks.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: donj  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 22:24

You mean you think Boris is better then da.
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 Re: Coronavirus (part 4)
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Fri 11 Sep 23:11

No and nowhere have I said that. You do know you can criticise Sturgeon without being a Tory?

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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