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 A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Tue 9 Mar 01:33

Anyone out there with an interest in crypto currency?

The recent price surge in the Doge coin, largely assisted by a big investment from Elon Musk, sparked my curiosity and I thought I would dip my toes in to see what it is all about.

I have been retired for a couple of years now and have watched my cash earn next to no interest in bank savings accounts and the money in my private pension is largely at the behest of the mixed fortunes of the stock market.

So, just about a month ago, I bought A$1,400 worth of crypto currency. I figured that I could afford that without losing too much sleep if I lost the lot. Anyway, I reckoned this was roughly the equivalent of the three or four weekends away that I had missed out on during our long Covid lockdown.

I split the investment into $600 with Bitcoin, $600 with Doge, $100 in a basket of the top 10 capitalised coins, and $50 each on a couple of “randoms” that were climbing fast on the day – IOTA and Crypto.com.

So, what’s happened to my investment?

Well, as soon as I bought the coins, my $1,400 dropped about $40 in broking costs, and the value up until a couple of hours ago had stayed below that figure, sometimes well below...

One thing I have learned is that this is not a market for the faint hearted – price fluctuations can be enormous. At one point my portfolio dropped to $1,166, meaning that effectively I had lost almost 20% of my capital in a couple of weeks!

However, it has recovered well and this morning, for the very first time, I am now actually in profit.

It is definitely a long-term game. I think it would be insane to day trade in this market. But it is clear that crypto currency is now becoming an established presence in the financial scene. We will see a lot more of it in our day to day lives.

I don’t expect to make my fortune from this, but it is fun to check on the price now and again. And it is hard to ignore that Bitcoin has jumped five-fold in value from what it was in October last year.

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: GG741  
Date:   Tue 9 Mar 03:12

I am far from being an expert, but aren`t the price fluctuations purely based on supply/demand, as there doesn`t seem to be any other basis for the "value" of cryptocurrencies?

Did you also incur a foreign exchange rate risk in your investing? I understood that all cryptos are priced against USD, so any movement in the USD/AUD market also impacts on your AUD/crypto "value".

And with the extremely volatile movements of the "value", wouldn`t that decrease the likelihood of wider acceptance of cryptos?

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Tue 9 Mar 04:11

Interesting questions GG741 and as you have probably gathered, I am certainly no expert in this area either. Perhaps others on here with more financial nous than me can answer your questions more fully?

On the issues of supply/demand and basis of value, I am led to understand that one of the strengths of Bitcoin is that it has a cap on the number of coins that can be produced. Presumably, when the cap is reached and the volume is fixed, then the inherent value should rise owing to supply/demand.

The comparison with the existing money system is a fascinating one to ponder. For where is the underlying basis of value in the pound or the dollar or the Euro? Since the gold standard was abandoned for fiat, there is nothing holding up these currencies beyond a promissory note on a piece of paper.

Not to mention quantative easing... printing money in order to service national debts. When will that end? Never, I suspect. At least bitcoin has a cap!

As for Forex, I honestly haven`t given that any thought. My strategy with crypto is to take a long view, perhaps two or three years. It has not been a big outlay, so I can`t see a significant downside. I monitor the crypto prices in Aussie dollars anyway, so what is going on in the exchange rate day to day is of little relevance to me.

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: Jbob  
Date:   Tue 9 Mar 08:52

Gambling in another form.

Bobs of the world unite
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par  
Date:   Tue 9 Mar 10:43

I`m a little cheesed off...

I bought a few Bitcoin years ago (2013 i think) for a little dodgy enterprise.

Paid about 400 euro in cash for 5 bitcoins
www.localbitcoins.com met the guy in Pizza hut, handed over cash and got a transfer on my phone.
Completely unconvinced, but whatever...

Sadly, I used about 4 and a half of them to purchase some electronic gear...

The last 0.5 btc were just left in the wallet - and have increased to about 0.61 in the last `Fork`, currently valued at Eur 27k!

the 5btc would have been worth 230k :-(

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Tue 9 Mar 12:22

My worry with cryptocurrency is the environmental hit they create.

They are "mined" using high end, power hungry, PC equipment and cryptocurrency mining is now accounting for a significant portion of global energy use.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore  
Date:   Tue 9 Mar 18:58

It smacks of Tulipmania. If you don’t understand something (how is it created? How do I know my “asset” really exists and is safely held for my benefit? What makes the price move? How do I sell?) you shouldn’t invest in it.

My dog eats meat
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Tue 9 Mar 21:43

All of those could describe any currency to be fair MC.

Back in the day cash was backed by bullion, which had some degree of agreed value due to scarcity and difficulty to reproduce without a supercollider. Now it seems to be created out of thin air by the cunning use of debt. Which has even less intrinsic value than gold.

Bitcoin is basically the same as bullion-backed currencies except the scarce commodity is the energy which is spent solving a hard sum on a hot computer.

The trust which needs to be placed in bitcoin when people agree between themselves that it has value for making transactions, keeping cash safe or making it grow is no different from the trust that people place in any currency. Except that it doesn`t have an army looking after its interests I suppose.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore  
Date:   Fri 12 Mar 22:10

Quote:

Wotsit, Tue 09 Mar 21:43

All of those could describe any currency to be fair MC.

Back in the day cash was backed by bullion, which had some degree of agreed value due to scarcity and difficulty to reproduce without a supercollider. Now it seems to be created out of thin air by the cunning use of debt. Which has even less intrinsic value than gold.

Bitcoin is basically the same as bullion-backed currencies except the scarce commodity is the energy which is spent solving a hard sum on a hot computer.

The trust which needs to be placed in bitcoin when people agree between themselves that it has value for making transactions, keeping cash safe or making it grow is no different from the trust that people place in any currency. Except that it doesn`t have an army looking after its interests I suppose.


Not quite the same. If I buy US dollars, I will hold them through some form of bank account and can rely on FSCS and a whole raft of regulation to give me confidence that my dollars exist and are held to my order.

If I want to sell, I can be very confident of being able to do so. The price moves, but the volatility is low and explicable.

If I bought a cryptocurrency, I have to hope that the “asset” really exists and that it is held safely for my benefit. If I want to sell, I am pretty much at a roulette table when it comes to price.

My dog eats meat
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sun 14 Mar 00:57

I must admit that I shared your skepticism Malcolm Canmore for a very long time, but I`m amazed at the impact that the blockchain has had on my own industry literally overturning the way international trade has been carried out for hundreds of years and making the movement of goods a seamless and transparent process.

It will do the same in the finance markets, for everything is interlinked.

While there are far too many players in the crypto market currently, the weaker ones will be shaken out and there will be consolidation. More and more businesses and financial institutions are recognising that crypto is a thing that is not going to go away in the money market and they are buying in.

There is much more transparency in the system than in the past. The income is reportable and taxable, the coin exchanges are sophisticated - the one that I use is directly linked to my bank account and I can shift money either way with relative ease. There are protections in place to ensure the money doesn`t suddenly disappear overnight.

I have not risked any more than I can afford and no one should. As I write, after four weeks, my initial investment of $1,400 now stands at $1,531. That represents an incredibly good return were I to cash it in now.

But as I said earlier, after a fortnight the value had plunged to $1,166, so clearly it is a volatile market subject to dramatic peaks and troughs. People looking for short-term profits can get savagely burned.

However if you look at the graphs, the underlying trend is upward and that is why I`ll maintain a long-term view and will be keeping my money in.

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 14 Mar 08:23

$60,000 today Oz :)

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Sun 14 Mar 11:26

I’d sooner dip my down below bits in a bath of barracuda.

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 14 Mar 12:01


Not quite the same. If I buy US dollars, I will hold them through some form of bank account and can rely on FSCS and a whole raft of regulation to give me confidence that my dollars exist and are held to my order.


I`d argue that those are part of the trust that`s evolved and it applies to relatively few currencies given the way in which currencies are traded internationally. Even the UK got a taste of this in 1992 when currency traders targeted the £.

Crypotocurrency has other layers of trust which are not present in US$, such as not being wholly reliant on institutions which can make mistakes, be self-interested or fail. I`m certain, for example, that a good few investors were not close to being fully recompensated by the financial settlements they received from FSCS after the last financial crash.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sun 11 Apr 23:10

Two months have gone by since I started this experiment with crypto currency. The balance of my portfolio is now $1608, so my initial investment of $1,400 has risen $208 in two months, or 14.9%. Spread over a year that would represent an extraordinary interest rate of 89.4%!

In other words, at the current rate of growth I would expect my $1,400 to double to $2,800 in just over 13 months from starting.

I entered this with some skepticism, fully prepared to lose the lot if things went south. And while I am yet to be convinced that this is not an elaborate mirage, I am certain that it represents a far better investment than going down the bookies.

I`ll report in again with an update in four weeks.

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Mon 12 Apr 11:46

Waiting on USA court case against XRP to be dropped, so I can make some profit.
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore  
Date:   Fri 16 Apr 20:18

Quote:

Wotsit, Sun 14 Mar 12:01


Not quite the same. If I buy US dollars, I will hold them through some form of bank account and can rely on FSCS and a whole raft of regulation to give me confidence that my dollars exist and are held to my order.


I`d argue that those are part of the trust that`s evolved and it applies to relatively few currencies given the way in which currencies are traded internationally. Even the UK got a taste of this in 1992 when currency traders targeted the £.

Crypotocurrency has other layers of trust which are not present in US$, such as not being wholly reliant on institutions which can make mistakes, be self-interested or fail. I`m certain, for example, that a good few investors were not close to being fully recompensated by the financial settlements they received from FSCS after the last financial crash.


Take everything you don’t understand about computers and combine it with everything you don’t understand about money and you have cryptocurrency.

My dog eats meat
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Fri 16 Apr 20:51

I dip into this market now and then, there is money to be made there. I suspect its a matter of time before Governments around the world get nervous and try and shut some of these down. Realistically we can't have coin mining using enough electricity to power a large country, it doesn't make sense, so I think something will happen to make these crash. I have done quite well out of shares in a company called Coincillium, and a Swedish EBT Ether Tracker. My particular favourite is Reddcoin, which has actually gone up 27.5% today.
Only advice I would say is not to use money that you can't afford to lose, as there is every chance that they could be worthless overnight. It's likely to be a tulip bubble
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: NikNakPar  
Date:   Sat 17 Apr 21:21

A friend of mine is doing future trades. He started with a 1.5k pot 6 days ago. At 3 this afternoon he has a 8k pot.

There is money to be made but also lost. He didn't just dive in either he has spent a couple month studying. He is very clever which may or may not help but he said his engineering mathematics is very useful for the future trading.
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Sun 18 Apr 10:06

Quote:

NikNakPar, Sat 17 Apr 21:21

A friend of mine is doing future trades. He started with a 1.5k pot 6 days ago. At 3 this afternoon he has a 8k pot.

There is money to be made but also lost. He didn't just dive in either he has spent a couple month studying. He is very clever which may or may not help but he said his engineering mathematics is very useful for the future trading.


I would be interested whether his theories or hypothesis were tested prior to venturing into the market. Also how often he was sampling data during any testing of theories. I am interested in what those tools were more than the trading.
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sun 18 Apr 16:44

It has been an extraordinary few days on the crypto currency market with the Dogecoin price soaring, lifting most of the other coin values with it. All my previous expectations have gone out the window. As I have said before, for me this is nothing more than an interesting experiment and clearly no one should risk more than they can afford. I invested $1,400 on the 11th February in a handful of different coins. At the moment, I could cash out and transfer $3,468 into my bank account, but I won`t. My intention was to see how this goes over a 12 month period and I am sticking with that plan.

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 18 Apr 16:52

I note that Turkey banned cryptos as a form of payment for goods services over the weekend.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Tue 11 May 06:39

Well, it’s three months to the day since I started this experiment with cryptocurrency, so it’s time to update you with where my A$1,400 has gone.

I split the investment into $600 with Bitcoin, $600 with Doge, $100 in a basket of the top 10 capitalised coins, and $50 each on a couple of “randoms” that were climbing fast on the day (11 February) – IOTA and Crypto.com.

When I last reported three weeks ago, my original investment had suddenly risen quite dramatically to $3,468. Little did I realise quite what was to come.

One of the parcels of coins that I bought, Doge, went utterly mental, pushing my portfolio value at one point to $7,100. In other words, my investment had grown 500% in less than 3 months!

It was tempting to cash out then, but that would defeat the purpose of this experiment. I will stay the full 12 months to properly gauge the currency, perhaps beyond.

The value of the portfolio has since slipped back and today is sitting at $5,597. That’s still a healthy ($2,129) improvement from where it was three weeks ago. And overall, I am sitting at $4,197 in profit.

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Tue 11 May 06:54

So, you might ask, is cryptocurrency an elaborate scam? A modern-day Tulipmania?

The more I become familiar with it, the more convinced I am that this is not a short-term speculative bubble, but instead, a sign that the world is changing.

My own working experience with seeing how Blockchain technology had utterly revolutionised the international trade markets in the past two or three years has had a huge influence on my thinking.

The surge in Bitcoin’s price and legitimacy has come at the same time as a colossal burst in money printing by the world’s central banks to service debt. This has produced a rise in the value of all assets, especially shares, because the money has to go somewhere, and it can’t be spent.

One senses that we are at the start of a global financial revolution sparked in part by all the money printing, and arguably the debasement of the existing monetary system in order to maintain economic growth.

The Blockchain introduced trust to the internet. Up until it arrived, trust was in very short supply. Put simply, Blockchain is a single, global, unalterable record of something. It is transparent. And that is the engine under the bonnet of Bitcoin and all the other cryptocurrencies.

When you wash away all the froth and bubble (pardon the obvious pun), everything I see, hear and read about it points to cryptocurrency being the future direction of the global financial system. And it will be a simplified system – no separate currencies, no dodgy exchange rates, maybe even no banks, or at least banks as we know them today.

You can understand why financial institutions are uncomfortable with it. But that’s not stopping them from getting in on the act too. My own bank, Westpac, is an active player in the market, having a major share in one of the big crypto brokerages in Australia. And certainly, we are seeing more and more large corporations hedging their bets and taking a stake in crypto too.

There`s momentum there.

Of course, there is an environmental concern about the mining of coins, and it is absolutely valid. But the mining can stop at a certain point, once critical mass is achieved. That point may already be reached; I certainly don’t know that, but there must be a figure for it.

Then, with a global agreement on a limit set on the number of coins that are produced, the value of the coins inevitably will rise, and your share of those coins (your wealth) becomes a mathematical equation.

It might sound complex, but when you break it down to its constituent parts, it doesn’t seem that complicated to me.

At the end of the day, I think crypto is here to stay.

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Tue 11 May 10:18

One of the guys at work (who’s been an advocate of it for the 5 years since he joined us) bought about £50k’s worth when it was about £2k per bit coin and he still has all of it.
It was inheritance money and his wife went ape at the time - think she’d come round to the idea now!

He says there’s no way he’s selling as he believes the trend is only going one direction

Post Edited (Tue 11 May 10:19)
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Tue 11 May 20:29

Really enjoying reading this OzPar
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore  
Date:   Tue 11 May 22:02

Quote:

OzPar, Tue 11 May 06:54

So, you might ask, is cryptocurrency an elaborate scam? A modern-day Tulipmania?

The more I become familiar with it, the more convinced I am that this is not a short-term speculative bubble, but instead, a sign that the world is changing.

My own working experience with seeing how Blockchain technology had utterly revolutionised the international trade markets in the past two or three years has had a huge influence on my thinking.

The surge in Bitcoin’s price and legitimacy has come at the same time as a colossal burst in money printing by the world’s central banks to service debt. This has produced a rise in the value of all assets, especially shares, because the money has to go somewhere, and it can’t be spent.

One senses that we are at the start of a global financial revolution sparked in part by all the money printing, and arguably the debasement of the existing monetary system in order to maintain economic growth.

The Blockchain introduced trust to the internet. Up until it arrived, trust was in very short supply. Put simply, Blockchain is a single, global, unalterable record of something. It is transparent. And that is the engine under the bonnet of Bitcoin and all the other cryptocurrencies.

When you wash away all the froth and bubble (pardon the obvious pun), everything I see, hear and read about it points to cryptocurrency being the future direction of the global financial system. And it will be a simplified system – no separate currencies, no dodgy exchange rates, maybe even no banks, or at least banks as we know them today.

You can understand why financial institutions are uncomfortable with it. But that’s not stopping them from getting in on the act too. My own bank, Westpac, is an active player in the market, having a major share in one of the big crypto brokerages in Australia. And certainly, we are seeing more and more large corporations hedging their bets and taking a stake in crypto too.

There`s momentum there.

Of course, there is an environmental concern about the mining of coins, and it is absolutely valid. But the mining can stop at a certain point, once critical mass is achieved. That point may already be reached; I certainly don’t know that, but there must be a figure for it.

Then, with a global agreement on a limit set on the number of coins that are produced, the value of the coins inevitably will rise, and your share of those coins (your wealth) becomes a mathematical equation.

It might sound complex, but when you break it down to its constituent parts, it doesn’t seem that complicated to me.

At the end of the day, I think crypto is here to stay.


It’ll end in tears.

My dog eats meat
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 11 May 23:12

I always find it odd how people disregard crypto currency as "not real" but are fine using plastic IOUs and moving numbers around on digital banking. Currency is just a construct. That tenner in your wallet (if you still use cash) isn't backed by gold anymore. In theory, it could become worthless overnight. Each day it sits in your wallet it's perceived value typically DECREASES.
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: Berkey  
Date:   Wed 12 May 08:51

Enjoying these updates! I’ve started to dabble in it myself, have a small amount of Safemoon, doge and now shib.

Seems theres a good amount of money to be made but you need to be early in....seems like there’s a new ‘doge killer’ currently created every 5 minutes tho!

Things will be looking up……..now yogi is gone!

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Wed 12 May 10:51

Don't think Doge did too well after Ellon Musk's comments at the weekend, Ethereum doing well though!
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Wed 12 May 17:23

Quote:

LochgellyAlbert, Wed 12 May 10:51

Don't think Doge did too well after Ellon Musk's comments at the weekend, Ethereum doing well though!


Ooh, never noticed that. I got involved in an Ether Tracker a couple of years ago, it never really did much, but since you mentioned it, I just checked and its gone up 470%, which is nice
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 13 May 10:17

Tesla no longer accepting bitcoin as payment.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 13 May 15:37

I'd love to know how much Musk is making playing the swings he knows his comments will make. Great thread by the way guys. Really interesting and long may the upside continue.

Post Edited (Thu 13 May 15:37)
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: neilholland999  
Date:   Thu 13 May 17:28

If anyone needs an invite to create an "Initiative Q" account, let me know as I am an existing user and can invite people in. All I will need is your email address (must be genuine to qualify for any benefits further downstream).
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Tue 18 May 04:08

A very interesting article here. Well worth reading through to the end to get the full picture.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-18/bitcoin-elon-musks-uturn-on-tesla-payments-mean-cryptocurrency/100145838

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Tue 18 May 07:52

Quote:

Wotsit, Tue 9 Mar 12:22

My worry with cryptocurrency is the environmental hit they create.

They are "mined" using high end, power hungry, PC equipment and cryptocurrency mining is now accounting for a significant portion of global energy use.


Tiny in comparison to the impact of manufacturing Tesla style cars...

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: Rastapari  
Date:   Tue 18 May 07:53

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Thu 13 May 10:17

Tesla no longer accepting bitcoin as payment.


However still happy to exploit kids for mining components...

Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 18 May 09:35

ADA was certainly stellar in the last week, saw some screen shots of a 12 month investment and it was impressive!

Big drop this week though.
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Wed 19 May 19:51

Cryptos take a dive as China ramps up its curbs against the asset and the speculators.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 20 May 18:05

Oz shakes his head as he go`s back to his man cave ... fires up his Pars (the glory years) 8 track and opens a few tinny`s :-))

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 20 May 18:45

Don’t think China position changed at all... either way it’s dips are still about 6 times the price of where it was this time last year
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Fri 21 May 08:12

Most importantly after the experiment is complete, will you be able to buy your season ticket in Bitcoin?
If you make a profit at the end of you experiment, do you have a plan for the next step or is it Pina colada’s for you?
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Fri 21 May 11:05

Of course, there is a `next step`, Parsmad 68. But let`s not spoil the fun. The experiment has a fair way to run yet.

:)

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Fri 21 May 19:33

Quote:

OzPar, Fri 21 May 11:05

Of course, there is a `next step`, Parsmad 68. But let`s not spoil the fun. The experiment has a fair way to run yet.

:)


You should write an article to a paper of your experiences.
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sun 23 May 20:12

Need your tin hat on just now!🤔🥶🤯🤮🙏
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 7 Jun 17:27

Interesting to see a naughtily names cryptocurrency skyrocket after some tweets from Elon Musk.

All seems very dodgy to me. He causes a drop in one currency as he claims it's not environmentally friendly then appears to endorse one with fairly sketchy links to the adult film industry? I realise all sorts of releases can result in price changes but this seems very iffy.
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 7 Jun 17:27

Interesting to see a naughtily names cryptocurrency skyrocket after some tweets from Elon Musk.

All seems very dodgy to me. He causes a drop in one currency as he claims it's not environmentally friendly then appears to endorse one with fairly sketchy links to the adult film industry? I realise all sorts of releases can result in price changes but this seems very iffy.
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 7 Jun 17:28

Interesting to see a naughtily names cryptocurrency skyrocket after some tweets from Elon Musk.
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 7 Jun 17:28

Interesting to see a naughtily names cryptocurrency skyrocket after some tweets from Elon Musk.
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: oakley_pars  
Date:   Tue 24 Aug 17:21

Rather enjoyed reading and following this thread. What are the latest updates on this?

it only takes one tree to make a thousand matches, it only takes one match to burn a thousand trees
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 24 Aug 20:03

After a big dip they seem to be on an upwards trend just now, slowly rising!
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Tue 24 Aug 22:28

Surely nations and big banks will do something to put a stop to some of these crypto currencies soon. Its not really credible as a currency to hold for any length of time when the tweets of a billionaire can cause its value to fluctuate so wildly. With the effect of Bitcoin mining on the planet it can't be allowed to continue
Having said that I'm still sticking with Ethereum for now and Coincillium
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 24 Aug 23:25

A few bob on Ethereum along with XRP, awaiting result of court case in USA affecting the latter.

Doge seems to be a bit of a waste of time, some making big profits from ADA!
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Fri 27 Aug 13:11

Dipped my toe in for the first time in mid July, Bought Ethereum and ADA and had a 4k gain in four weeks. Fallen back now....

I am just letting it roll hoping that the trend continues upwards.

Tempted to pile in again at the next crash.........mmm?

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Fri 27 Aug 18:47

ADA well up today!
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Fri 27 Aug 20:58

Thanks for the reminder, oakley pars.

Well, here we are, just over six months into the experiment now, and I can reveal the Half-Yearly figures.

I launched this portfolio on 11 February, splitting the investment into $600 with Bitcoin, $600 with Doge, $100 in a basket of the top 10 capitalised coins, and $50 each on a couple of “randoms” that were climbing fast on the day – IOTA and Crypto.com.

So, where is my $1,400 today?



Bitcoin... $594 (-$6)

Doge.... $2,487 (+$1,887)

IOTA......$39 (-$11)

Crypto....$37 (-$13)

Basket....$256 (+$156)



TOTAL.....$3,413 (+$2,013)


When all is said and done, I could cash my $1,400 out today for $3,413. That is a profit of more than $2,000, or 244% in just six months. Spread over a year, we are looking at an annual interest rate of 488%...

Phenomenal numbers, but the capitalist pig in me says if I had gotten out on 9 May, when the value of my portfolio hit its peak, I would already have made more than five times my initial investment...

Clearly, Doge continues to be the star performer, more than quadrupling in value. Within the basket of ten cryptocurrencies, the star performers were Cardano, which has doubled in value, and Etherium, which has increased 50%.

So what are my impressions of crypto as an investment six months on?

Well, first, let`s stick to cold hard facts.

Had I put my $1,400 into a 6-month term deposit account at my bank, I would have received an interest rate of 1.20%. Today, the value of my account would stand at $1,416.80...

On the face of it, the $3,413 balance in cryptocurrency today looks sensational. However, a word of caution...

Take a closer look at those half-yearly figures, and what do you notice? Take away Doge, and there`s a fair quantity of minuses. Indeed, within the basket of the top 10 capitalised cryptos, only four showed a nominal profit over the six months.

If you were to subtract my $600 investment in Doge, the net $800 investment would today be worth $926. In other words, my portfolio would have gained 15.75%...

So, just like the stock exchange or even gambling, ultimately, everything depends on what horse you decide to back.

I suppose I would argue that were it not for all the hype about Doge early in the year, I very much doubt that I would have started this experiment in the first place.

Anyway, the experiment continues. Let`s see where the next six months take us...



Post Edited (Fri 27 Aug 21:04)
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 21:51

In little over a month …

CRO, up 18%
Ethereum up 28%
ADA up 106%
BCH up 16%
Ripple up 57 %


Cant complain…….Better than sitting in the bank an ISA or a pension fund for sure…..

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 31 Aug 22:46

I've not been following the crypto markets as I don't have any spare cash to invest but I thought Ripple was in a bit of bother after being touted as the next big thing. Is it on a come back or is that just a short term bounce?
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Wed 1 Sep 09:44

Quote:

londonparsfan, Tue 31 Aug 22:46

I've not been following the crypto markets as I don't have any spare cash to invest but I thought Ripple was in a bit of bother after being touted as the next big thing. Is it on a come back or is that just a short term bounce?


Waiting on decision from USA regulators regarding its status, meanwhile it has been withdrawn from US markets. Decision not expected till next year, so very speculative just now!
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sat 4 Sep 14:31

Cheers LA!
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Tue 21 Sep 22:37

Wipe out ! Took a profit a couple of weeks ago , then watched what I had left plummet. Just bailed out and sold what I had left for a loss ( after taking profit ) so I am a couple of hundred quid up overall. Should have sold the lot first time but don’t have a crystal ball.

Of course I could have just sat tight and waited for the rebound.

Will go back in again when this has bottomed out….guessing where the bottom will be is the tricky part……’

There must be millions of Investors worldwide who like me were smiling only three weeks ago and have now lost a load.

I took my eye of the ball as I am not one for following the markets per say. There are so many so called experts out there all giving conflicting advice.

Anyway I have learned a thing or two recently and luckily not lost anything. I could have made a decent profit if I had sold it all at the time.

I have a friend in the US who sold his Bitcoin many years ago after a similar crash and he swears he would have been a multi millionaire if he had kept his original coins…….not for the faint hearted this game that’s for sure.

I will be back for another punt……..when? Who knows?

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Wed 22 Sep 00:31

Another month goes by and yet another "wipe out".

There is a certain regularity to this that, after 7 months or so, I am growing quite used to. Every few weeks we seem to get a surge or a bust.

When reviewed over time, the graph of my portfolio value resembles a sine curve, except that it reminds me more of a tidal graph where on each rising spring tide the peak gets just that little bit higher than it was before, as does the trough.

It has yet to swing to a neap tide where the inherent value progressively declines, and I am sure there are investors out there who await a tsunami, where the tide rushes out all but disappearing, before fooding in at a ferocious rate to deliver undreamt-of profits.

As desperado has pointed out, there has been another "correction". But it helps to take a longer view to gain some perspective.

Looking at my portfolio today, its value is $2,494. That is $919 down on where it was when I reported last month, but still $1,094 up on where I started in February. In other words, my initial $1,400 has grown 78% in seven months.

Crypto clearly is not a short-term speculative market. If you want to avoid frequent heart attacks, it probably best to either avoid it altogether or adopt the view that it is best not to check its value every day.

Who knows where it will be next month? If the long-tern trend is correct, then it is likely to have increased in value.

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: parathletic  
Date:   Fri 24 Sep 13:42

China have announced that all crypto-currencies are illegal-I imagine that will hit the market hard?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58678907

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Thu 21 Oct 08:47

Another month has gone by and, as I predicted, my portfolio has largely climbed back to where it was. It is at $3,360 today, a lift of $866 on where we left it this time last month.

Since February, my initial investment of $1,400 has grown 240% in 8 months.

Had I left my money in a fixed interest term deposit, my balance would be $1,417 at the annual rate of 1.84% currently on offer at my ever-generous bank.

The latest surge in crypto has come as more businesses, professional investors, and even the government of El Salvador buy into Bitcoin, further broadening its base beyond its initial core of fanatics.

The latest converts came into the world of crypto on Tuesday, when the first exchange-traded fund (EFT) linked to Bitcoin found massive interest from investors.

One school of thought says Bitcoin can offer investors protection from high inflation, and some fans see it as akin to “digital gold,” though it doesn`t have a long track record to back that up.

More high-minded fans say digital assets are simply the future of finance, allowing transactions to sidestep intermediaries and fees with a currency that’s not beholden to any government.

Cryptocurrencies are still very far from winning over everyone, though.

Critics - and there are a few on here - point to how they`re still not widely used as forms of payment. They also criticise how much energy is used by the cryptosystem, which adds to climate-changing emissions. It will end in tears, according to some.

These past eight months have been a rocky ride for sure, but the numbers don`t lie. If you have been following this thread from the start, you will know that apart from a brief dip in the first month, the portfolio has steadily grown in value.

At one point, in early May, I could have cashed out my $1,400 at $7,100. But that would defeat the point of this experiment. I have set a timeline of 12 months for this and right now, we are two-thirds of the way through it.

I am not risking the house and it is a little bit of fun. And, hopefully, you too find it interesting and worthwhile.

We may be glimpsing the future of finance or we could indeed be witnessing an ever-so elaborate ponzy scheme.

There`s four months to go for this experiment to play out.

Personally, my money is on the outcome being the former.

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: parsmad68  
Date:   Thu 21 Oct 09:33

Is there any underlying monthly trends you are starting to see in growth or is the volatility still clouding the market. I know it is only a small amount of data but wanted to know if there is a regular sustained growth or whether the causal events still rule the roost
Edit: also whether at these major news events. I.e. country decision announcements have any definable impact effect on the currency.

Post Edited (Thu 21 Oct 09:41)
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 21 Oct 09:39

Will be interesting to see what happens to cryptos if Evergrande defaults on its debt repayments this month.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Thu 21 Oct 23:35

I am still riding the rollercoaster with swings of a few grand per week. I don’t freak out as much now when it goes down as I am holding Eth, Ada and Vet for the long haul.

However I decided a couple of weeks ago to pump a little more into some lesser known Alt coins and have even blocked by my bank and another.

Still trying to find a way to invest a little more.

Anyone having a similar issue with bank blocking ?

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Fri 22 Oct 13:02

Are any of you noticing recurring events that cause the dips or increases?

Elon Musks Tweets 😉

I know it's stating the obvious but if you could sell the peaks and buy the dips then even if you only caught a relatively small number it would probably boost your P in the P&L a bit.

I know it's difficult when it's so volatile but I've never had a look to see how viable it is. I know if it was easy everyone would do it.
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Fri 22 Oct 23:18

Yes a little bit of media speculation or a tweet even by a big hitter can cause crypto to wobble. Jamie Dimon from JP Morgan made a few disparaging comments regarding Bitcoin recently. He has form spooking the market then buying at the dip himself.
Did not seem to work this time as Bitcoin had risen since his comment.

I personally don’t have the time to monitor it all. I am just sitting
tight hoping that my coins will increase substantially over the next, say five years.

I would like a little dabble on some random ridiculously low priced coins though but as I said previously I am having issues depositing Fiat due to my banks blocking the transfers.

I will find a way around that though.

Crypto is here to stay and you will make far more than leaving money rotting in a bank account…. If you can handle the wild swings.

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sat 23 Oct 02:29

PARSMAD68 ASKED: "Is there any underlying monthly trends you are starting to see in growth, or is the volatility still clouding the market. I know it is only a small amount of data, but I wanted to know if there is a regular, sustained growth or whether the causal events still rule the roost. Edit: also whether at these major news events. I.e. country decision announcements have any definable impact effect on the currency."

===

Interesting questions. Despite sharp fluctuations up and down, there are indeed clear trends and patterns to be seen. And if you have the patience and determination to sit these out, you will, for the most part, see the value of your portfolio grow.

I frequently mention it in this thread, but let`s, for the sake of clarity, repeat it...

THIS IS NOT A MARKET FOR SHORT-TERM INVESTORS.

One of the beauties of modern-day investing is that you can pull up endless analytical tools at the click of a computer mouse, most of which are pretty simple to comprehend. It doesn`t take too long to discern a change in a trading pattern that will point you to when a price is likely to peak or trough if carefully monitored.

The secret is not to be transfixed on what is happening at the moment but to zoom out to weeks and months, even years, to get a clearer picture of where this event sits in the overall scheme of things.

You would be amazed how often what appears to be a catastrophic plunge is but a minor and utterly predictable price dip when the graph is zoomed out far enough. Perspective is a beautiful thing.

I take the view that Elon Musk is someone to steer well clear of in the crypto market. His comments seem to me to be pure market manipulation. In any other regulated market, he would be pulled up for it, but crypto is still the relatively wild west, for how much longer remains to be seen.

The problem is that Musk has an enormous flock of devoted followers, and three words from him can prompt a rush of buying or selling. Currently, he can move a market on his own, and the result is that a lot of inexperienced investors are being sucked in and thrown out, usually losing most of their limited wealth in the process.

Increasingly, you can see the institutional investors sweeping up the bargain basement coins when the price plummets. Like it or not, crypto is fast becoming mainstream.

Not all crypto coins will survive, but many will. You have to make sure that you stick the bulk of your crypto portfolio with those coins that tend to be best supported. Don`t risk too much on what you might call "bargain stock".

As for causal events? To date, I haven`t observed any single external event that has had a long-term impact on my set of coins. And given that we`ve had the grand-daddy of Black Swan events with Covid-19, that is remarkable.

There is much talk about the Chinese Government taking a hard line on crypto, but one wonders if this is not just part of an elaborate ruse, a precursor to launching their own cryptocurrency. I have yet to meet a Chinaman who knowingly walks away from an opportunity to make money. Their adherence to rigid communism seems to me to be pretty flexible these days.

It is all about supply and demand. And as long as there is demand, my hunch is that the underlying price for cryptocurrency will continue to increase.

I mentioned this in a post two or three months ago, but I think it is probably the most pertinent comment I can make, based on my experience with cryptocurrencies so far...

The crypto price graphs most strikingly resemble Tidal Graphs showing a spring tide when observed over the long term. The price follows a clearly defined sine curve where each following peak and each following trough is notably higher than its predecessor.

This is borne out on the underlying value of my portfolio. While fluctuating up and down regularly (going from peak to peak every five to seven weeks), it has grown from $1,400 to $3,400 in eight months.

It is hard to ignore those numbers. My advice would be to get in sooner rather than later, but of course, only risk what you can afford to lose.

However, I have a nagging concern behind this optimistic picture now that crypto attracts big investment houses. My problem is that they will seek to dominate the market and, where possible, increasingly exclude the smaller investor.

I can envision a manipulated market-driven event where the bottom seemingly drops out of cryptocurrencies very quickly, much like the water disappears from the beach ahead of a tsunami. As the small investors sell in panic, the institutions sweep up the coins, and suddenly, the tsunami arrives with force and crypto prices climb to once-unthinkable levels.

Of course, the secret then would be to recognise this while it was happening, hold on to your coins, and buy like mad on the plunge. Then, you have to hang on for the ride, check the new value of your portfolio, and calmly announce your retirement...

Post Edited (Sat 23 Oct 02:52)
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sat 23 Oct 09:04

Cheers Oz/Desperado!
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Sat 23 Oct 09:49

I'll be keeping my hard-earned as far away as possible from this.
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 23 Oct 10:42

Ipswich, if you invest in crypto all you have to do is get another two people to invest in it after you and then for them both to get another two people to invest and so on and you`ll see your investment rise.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Sat 23 Oct 11:48

If you put it like that TOWK I might reconsider. What could go wrong?
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 23 Oct 12:03

Nothing will go wrong Ipswich as long as nobody tells the emperor he has no clothes on.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sat 23 Oct 12:20

Ipswich/TOWK - you are perfectly entitled to be sceptical, but one thing crypto is not is a pyramid scheme. It is structured in an entirely different way and, through Blockchain, has accountable financial trails.

Currently, I have a very handy two grand that I didn`t have eight months ago to fund a new suit for the Emporer should he need it in an emergency.

:)

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 23 Oct 12:39

Hey I didn`t say nobody won`t make money out of it. Of course those profits are only realised when the coins are sold. Its interesting to note that about one third of all Bitcoin currently in existence are owned by about 1000 people.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Wed 27 Oct 13:49

Shiba Inu has been one I recently had a flutter on, trebled my money in a couple of weeks. Some decent gains today on that. It is a gamble though, don't put your money in to crypto unless you are prepared to lose it
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 28 Oct 06:42

"Hey I didn`t say nobody won`t make money out of it. Of course those profits are only realised when the coins are sold"

Or used to buy stuff as a currency themselves?
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Mon 1 Nov 23:54

Squidgame craziness.... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/nov/01/squid-game-cryptocurrency-scam-fears-investors

Post Edited (Mon 01 Nov 23:54)
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Tue 2 Nov 07:28

For me, all the other coins are just a fad and the big question is when do you get on the bitcoin bus?

ie what price do you invest. Yes it has the odd tidal blip but it recovers quick and the trajectory is upwards - this will only increase as there is a finite supply and the max is getting nearer, big players are buying in and while gov's may not like it - at the end of the day they can't control it or tax it - you have to ask when do you jump as long term I don't think it's a boat you want to miss
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Tue 2 Nov 09:03

As far as bitcoin goes none of us will be alive to see it hit its max.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Tue 2 Nov 13:48

That is true, but mostly because we will all be fried because of the CO2 generated by pointless bitcoin mining.

If someone had told me 10 years ago that mining could destroy the planet I would have assumed it would be coal mining and not this nonsense.

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Tue 2 Nov 17:05

Interesting Dispatches last night where economists/lawyers were making the point that our economic approach is killing us. Case and point with generating some weird non physical coins which suddenly are worth a lot of money.
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: GG4  
Date:   Tue 2 Nov 21:46

Topic Originator: red-star-par like | nolike
Date: Wed 27 Oct 13:49

Shiba Inu has been one I recently had a flutter on, trebled my money in a couple of weeks. Some decent gains today on that. It is a gamble though, don`t put your money in to crypto unless you are prepared to lose it
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Red star what app do you use if you don`t mind saying please?

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Wed 3 Nov 11:17

The Commonwealth Bank of Australia will allow its customers to buy and sell cryptocurrency through its app, in the first move of its kind by a major Australian bank.

Australia’s largest bank announced on Wednesday it had partnered with US-based crypto exchange Gemini and blockchain analysis firm Chainalysis to offer the service to its 6.5m CommBank app users.

Customers will be able to buy up to 10 crypto assets including bitcoin, Ethereum and Litecoin.

The bank will conduct a pilot in the next few weeks, ahead of a wider launch in 2022.

“We believe we can play an important role in crypto to address what’s clearly a growing customer need and provide capability, security and confidence in a crypto trading platform,” CBA’s chief executive Matt Comyn said in a statement.

The bank said research on its customers found many had either expressed interest in crypto assets, or were already trading crypto through exchanges.

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Wed 3 Nov 13:07

Who will be the custodian Oz?

Much better to self custody in my opinion
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Wed 3 Nov 17:59

Quote:

GG4, Tue 2 Nov 21:46

Topic Originator: red-star-par like | nolike
Date: Wed 27 Oct 13:49

Shiba Inu has been one I recently had a flutter on, trebled my money in a couple of weeks. Some decent gains today on that. It is a gamble though, don`t put your money in to crypto unless you are prepared to lose it
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Red star what app do you use if you don`t mind saying please?


Coinbase, it's a really simple app, and you can buy and sell quickly. The first time I had to link it to my bank account however, it did take a few tries to go through, mostly as Halifax thought there was some fraudulent activity on my account. A couple of text messages from the bank to confirm it was me and a 10 minute delay sorted it though
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: GG4  
Date:   Wed 3 Nov 19:01

Thanks Red Star. Appreciated.

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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: Bigfoot  
Date:   Thu 11 Nov 14:10

Thanks for the updates OZPar - your posts were enough to get me to invest in Crypto.

I opted for an unknown currency and am currently showing a $120 loss on an $800 initial investment.

For now I am keeping my nerve, and hoping it will rise at some point. I think I`ll split this into the safer "BTC" and take a punt on the the rest.

AS everyone has said - it`s a bit of a lottery buying unknown and I can`t highlight enough only invest what you are prepared to lose.

Jesus saves, but Kirk nets rebound
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 Re: A dip into the cryptocurrency market
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 11 Nov 15:39

I would touch anything other than bitcoin and be sure to self custody!!!
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