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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Tue 9 Mar 01:33
Anyone out there with an interest in crypto currency?
The recent price surge in the Doge coin, largely assisted by a big investment from Elon Musk, sparked my curiosity and I thought I would dip my toes in to see what it is all about.
I have been retired for a couple of years now and have watched my cash earn next to no interest in bank savings accounts and the money in my private pension is largely at the behest of the mixed fortunes of the stock market.
So, just about a month ago, I bought A$1,400 worth of crypto currency. I figured that I could afford that without losing too much sleep if I lost the lot. Anyway, I reckoned this was roughly the equivalent of the three or four weekends away that I had missed out on during our long Covid lockdown.
I split the investment into $600 with Bitcoin, $600 with Doge, $100 in a basket of the top 10 capitalised coins, and $50 each on a couple of “randoms” that were climbing fast on the day – IOTA and Crypto.com.
So, what’s happened to my investment?
Well, as soon as I bought the coins, my $1,400 dropped about $40 in broking costs, and the value up until a couple of hours ago had stayed below that figure, sometimes well below...
One thing I have learned is that this is not a market for the faint hearted – price fluctuations can be enormous. At one point my portfolio dropped to $1,166, meaning that effectively I had lost almost 20% of my capital in a couple of weeks!
However, it has recovered well and this morning, for the very first time, I am now actually in profit.
It is definitely a long-term game. I think it would be insane to day trade in this market. But it is clear that crypto currency is now becoming an established presence in the financial scene. We will see a lot more of it in our day to day lives.
I don’t expect to make my fortune from this, but it is fun to check on the price now and again. And it is hard to ignore that Bitcoin has jumped five-fold in value from what it was in October last year.
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Topic Originator: GG741
Date: Tue 9 Mar 03:12
I am far from being an expert, but aren`t the price fluctuations purely based on supply/demand, as there doesn`t seem to be any other basis for the "value" of cryptocurrencies?
Did you also incur a foreign exchange rate risk in your investing? I understood that all cryptos are priced against USD, so any movement in the USD/AUD market also impacts on your AUD/crypto "value".
And with the extremely volatile movements of the "value", wouldn`t that decrease the likelihood of wider acceptance of cryptos?
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Tue 9 Mar 04:11
Interesting questions GG741 and as you have probably gathered, I am certainly no expert in this area either. Perhaps others on here with more financial nous than me can answer your questions more fully?
On the issues of supply/demand and basis of value, I am led to understand that one of the strengths of Bitcoin is that it has a cap on the number of coins that can be produced. Presumably, when the cap is reached and the volume is fixed, then the inherent value should rise owing to supply/demand.
The comparison with the existing money system is a fascinating one to ponder. For where is the underlying basis of value in the pound or the dollar or the Euro? Since the gold standard was abandoned for fiat, there is nothing holding up these currencies beyond a promissory note on a piece of paper.
Not to mention quantative easing... printing money in order to service national debts. When will that end? Never, I suspect. At least bitcoin has a cap!
As for Forex, I honestly haven`t given that any thought. My strategy with crypto is to take a long view, perhaps two or three years. It has not been a big outlay, so I can`t see a significant downside. I monitor the crypto prices in Aussie dollars anyway, so what is going on in the exchange rate day to day is of little relevance to me.
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Topic Originator: Jbob
Date: Tue 9 Mar 08:52
Gambling in another form.
Bobs of the world unite
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Tue 9 Mar 10:43
I`m a little cheesed off...
I bought a few Bitcoin years ago (2013 i think) for a little dodgy enterprise.
Paid about 400 euro in cash for 5 bitcoins
www.localbitcoins.com met the guy in Pizza hut, handed over cash and got a transfer on my phone.
Completely unconvinced, but whatever...
Sadly, I used about 4 and a half of them to purchase some electronic gear...
The last 0.5 btc were just left in the wallet - and have increased to about 0.61 in the last `Fork`, currently valued at Eur 27k!
the 5btc would have been worth 230k :-(
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Tue 9 Mar 12:22
My worry with cryptocurrency is the environmental hit they create.
They are "mined" using high end, power hungry, PC equipment and cryptocurrency mining is now accounting for a significant portion of global energy use.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore
Date: Tue 9 Mar 18:58
It smacks of Tulipmania. If you don’t understand something (how is it created? How do I know my “asset” really exists and is safely held for my benefit? What makes the price move? How do I sell?) you shouldn’t invest in it.
My dog eats meat
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Tue 9 Mar 21:43
All of those could describe any currency to be fair MC.
Back in the day cash was backed by bullion, which had some degree of agreed value due to scarcity and difficulty to reproduce without a supercollider. Now it seems to be created out of thin air by the cunning use of debt. Which has even less intrinsic value than gold.
Bitcoin is basically the same as bullion-backed currencies except the scarce commodity is the energy which is spent solving a hard sum on a hot computer.
The trust which needs to be placed in bitcoin when people agree between themselves that it has value for making transactions, keeping cash safe or making it grow is no different from the trust that people place in any currency. Except that it doesn`t have an army looking after its interests I suppose.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore
Date: Fri 12 Mar 22:10
Quote:
Wotsit, Tue 09 Mar 21:43
All of those could describe any currency to be fair MC.
Back in the day cash was backed by bullion, which had some degree of agreed value due to scarcity and difficulty to reproduce without a supercollider. Now it seems to be created out of thin air by the cunning use of debt. Which has even less intrinsic value than gold.
Bitcoin is basically the same as bullion-backed currencies except the scarce commodity is the energy which is spent solving a hard sum on a hot computer.
The trust which needs to be placed in bitcoin when people agree between themselves that it has value for making transactions, keeping cash safe or making it grow is no different from the trust that people place in any currency. Except that it doesn`t have an army looking after its interests I suppose.
Not quite the same. If I buy US dollars, I will hold them through some form of bank account and can rely on FSCS and a whole raft of regulation to give me confidence that my dollars exist and are held to my order.
If I want to sell, I can be very confident of being able to do so. The price moves, but the volatility is low and explicable.
If I bought a cryptocurrency, I have to hope that the “asset” really exists and that it is held safely for my benefit. If I want to sell, I am pretty much at a roulette table when it comes to price.
My dog eats meat
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sun 14 Mar 00:57
I must admit that I shared your skepticism Malcolm Canmore for a very long time, but I`m amazed at the impact that the blockchain has had on my own industry literally overturning the way international trade has been carried out for hundreds of years and making the movement of goods a seamless and transparent process.
It will do the same in the finance markets, for everything is interlinked.
While there are far too many players in the crypto market currently, the weaker ones will be shaken out and there will be consolidation. More and more businesses and financial institutions are recognising that crypto is a thing that is not going to go away in the money market and they are buying in.
There is much more transparency in the system than in the past. The income is reportable and taxable, the coin exchanges are sophisticated - the one that I use is directly linked to my bank account and I can shift money either way with relative ease. There are protections in place to ensure the money doesn`t suddenly disappear overnight.
I have not risked any more than I can afford and no one should. As I write, after four weeks, my initial investment of $1,400 now stands at $1,531. That represents an incredibly good return were I to cash it in now.
But as I said earlier, after a fortnight the value had plunged to $1,166, so clearly it is a volatile market subject to dramatic peaks and troughs. People looking for short-term profits can get savagely burned.
However if you look at the graphs, the underlying trend is upward and that is why I`ll maintain a long-term view and will be keeping my money in.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Sun 14 Mar 08:23
$60,000 today Oz :)
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Sun 14 Mar 11:26
I’d sooner dip my down below bits in a bath of barracuda.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sun 14 Mar 12:01
Not quite the same. If I buy US dollars, I will hold them through some form of bank account and can rely on FSCS and a whole raft of regulation to give me confidence that my dollars exist and are held to my order.
I`d argue that those are part of the trust that`s evolved and it applies to relatively few currencies given the way in which currencies are traded internationally. Even the UK got a taste of this in 1992 when currency traders targeted the £.
Crypotocurrency has other layers of trust which are not present in US$, such as not being wholly reliant on institutions which can make mistakes, be self-interested or fail. I`m certain, for example, that a good few investors were not close to being fully recompensated by the financial settlements they received from FSCS after the last financial crash.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sun 11 Apr 23:10
Two months have gone by since I started this experiment with crypto currency. The balance of my portfolio is now $1608, so my initial investment of $1,400 has risen $208 in two months, or 14.9%. Spread over a year that would represent an extraordinary interest rate of 89.4%!
In other words, at the current rate of growth I would expect my $1,400 to double to $2,800 in just over 13 months from starting.
I entered this with some skepticism, fully prepared to lose the lot if things went south. And while I am yet to be convinced that this is not an elaborate mirage, I am certain that it represents a far better investment than going down the bookies.
I`ll report in again with an update in four weeks.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Mon 12 Apr 11:46
Waiting on USA court case against XRP to be dropped, so I can make some profit.
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Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore
Date: Fri 16 Apr 20:18
Quote:
Wotsit, Sun 14 Mar 12:01
Not quite the same. If I buy US dollars, I will hold them through some form of bank account and can rely on FSCS and a whole raft of regulation to give me confidence that my dollars exist and are held to my order.
I`d argue that those are part of the trust that`s evolved and it applies to relatively few currencies given the way in which currencies are traded internationally. Even the UK got a taste of this in 1992 when currency traders targeted the £.
Crypotocurrency has other layers of trust which are not present in US$, such as not being wholly reliant on institutions which can make mistakes, be self-interested or fail. I`m certain, for example, that a good few investors were not close to being fully recompensated by the financial settlements they received from FSCS after the last financial crash.
Take everything you don’t understand about computers and combine it with everything you don’t understand about money and you have cryptocurrency.
My dog eats meat
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Fri 16 Apr 20:51
I dip into this market now and then, there is money to be made there. I suspect its a matter of time before Governments around the world get nervous and try and shut some of these down. Realistically we can't have coin mining using enough electricity to power a large country, it doesn't make sense, so I think something will happen to make these crash. I have done quite well out of shares in a company called Coincillium, and a Swedish EBT Ether Tracker. My particular favourite is Reddcoin, which has actually gone up 27.5% today.
Only advice I would say is not to use money that you can't afford to lose, as there is every chance that they could be worthless overnight. It's likely to be a tulip bubble
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Topic Originator: NikNakPar
Date: Sat 17 Apr 21:21
A friend of mine is doing future trades. He started with a 1.5k pot 6 days ago. At 3 this afternoon he has a 8k pot.
There is money to be made but also lost. He didn't just dive in either he has spent a couple month studying. He is very clever which may or may not help but he said his engineering mathematics is very useful for the future trading.
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Sun 18 Apr 10:06
Quote:
NikNakPar, Sat 17 Apr 21:21
A friend of mine is doing future trades. He started with a 1.5k pot 6 days ago. At 3 this afternoon he has a 8k pot.
There is money to be made but also lost. He didn't just dive in either he has spent a couple month studying. He is very clever which may or may not help but he said his engineering mathematics is very useful for the future trading.
I would be interested whether his theories or hypothesis were tested prior to venturing into the market. Also how often he was sampling data during any testing of theories. I am interested in what those tools were more than the trading.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sun 18 Apr 16:44
It has been an extraordinary few days on the crypto currency market with the Dogecoin price soaring, lifting most of the other coin values with it. All my previous expectations have gone out the window. As I have said before, for me this is nothing more than an interesting experiment and clearly no one should risk more than they can afford. I invested $1,400 on the 11th February in a handful of different coins. At the moment, I could cash out and transfer $3,468 into my bank account, but I won`t. My intention was to see how this goes over a 12 month period and I am sticking with that plan.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 18 Apr 16:52
I note that Turkey banned cryptos as a form of payment for goods services over the weekend.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Tue 11 May 06:39
Well, it’s three months to the day since I started this experiment with cryptocurrency, so it’s time to update you with where my A$1,400 has gone.
I split the investment into $600 with Bitcoin, $600 with Doge, $100 in a basket of the top 10 capitalised coins, and $50 each on a couple of “randoms” that were climbing fast on the day (11 February) – IOTA and Crypto.com.
When I last reported three weeks ago, my original investment had suddenly risen quite dramatically to $3,468. Little did I realise quite what was to come.
One of the parcels of coins that I bought, Doge, went utterly mental, pushing my portfolio value at one point to $7,100. In other words, my investment had grown 500% in less than 3 months!
It was tempting to cash out then, but that would defeat the purpose of this experiment. I will stay the full 12 months to properly gauge the currency, perhaps beyond.
The value of the portfolio has since slipped back and today is sitting at $5,597. That’s still a healthy ($2,129) improvement from where it was three weeks ago. And overall, I am sitting at $4,197 in profit.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Tue 11 May 06:54
So, you might ask, is cryptocurrency an elaborate scam? A modern-day Tulipmania?
The more I become familiar with it, the more convinced I am that this is not a short-term speculative bubble, but instead, a sign that the world is changing.
My own working experience with seeing how Blockchain technology had utterly revolutionised the international trade markets in the past two or three years has had a huge influence on my thinking.
The surge in Bitcoin’s price and legitimacy has come at the same time as a colossal burst in money printing by the world’s central banks to service debt. This has produced a rise in the value of all assets, especially shares, because the money has to go somewhere, and it can’t be spent.
One senses that we are at the start of a global financial revolution sparked in part by all the money printing, and arguably the debasement of the existing monetary system in order to maintain economic growth.
The Blockchain introduced trust to the internet. Up until it arrived, trust was in very short supply. Put simply, Blockchain is a single, global, unalterable record of something. It is transparent. And that is the engine under the bonnet of Bitcoin and all the other cryptocurrencies.
When you wash away all the froth and bubble (pardon the obvious pun), everything I see, hear and read about it points to cryptocurrency being the future direction of the global financial system. And it will be a simplified system – no separate currencies, no dodgy exchange rates, maybe even no banks, or at least banks as we know them today.
You can understand why financial institutions are uncomfortable with it. But that’s not stopping them from getting in on the act too. My own bank, Westpac, is an active player in the market, having a major share in one of the big crypto brokerages in Australia. And certainly, we are seeing more and more large corporations hedging their bets and taking a stake in crypto too.
There`s momentum there.
Of course, there is an environmental concern about the mining of coins, and it is absolutely valid. But the mining can stop at a certain point, once critical mass is achieved. That point may already be reached; I certainly don’t know that, but there must be a figure for it.
Then, with a global agreement on a limit set on the number of coins that are produced, the value of the coins inevitably will rise, and your share of those coins (your wealth) becomes a mathematical equation.
It might sound complex, but when you break it down to its constituent parts, it doesn’t seem that complicated to me.
At the end of the day, I think crypto is here to stay.
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Tue 11 May 10:18
One of the guys at work (who’s been an advocate of it for the 5 years since he joined us) bought about £50k’s worth when it was about £2k per bit coin and he still has all of it.
It was inheritance money and his wife went ape at the time - think she’d come round to the idea now!
He says there’s no way he’s selling as he believes the trend is only going one direction
Post Edited (Tue 11 May 10:19)
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Tue 11 May 20:29
Really enjoying reading this OzPar
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Topic Originator: Malcolm Canmore
Date: Tue 11 May 22:02
Quote:
OzPar, Tue 11 May 06:54
So, you might ask, is cryptocurrency an elaborate scam? A modern-day Tulipmania?
The more I become familiar with it, the more convinced I am that this is not a short-term speculative bubble, but instead, a sign that the world is changing.
My own working experience with seeing how Blockchain technology had utterly revolutionised the international trade markets in the past two or three years has had a huge influence on my thinking.
The surge in Bitcoin’s price and legitimacy has come at the same time as a colossal burst in money printing by the world’s central banks to service debt. This has produced a rise in the value of all assets, especially shares, because the money has to go somewhere, and it can’t be spent.
One senses that we are at the start of a global financial revolution sparked in part by all the money printing, and arguably the debasement of the existing monetary system in order to maintain economic growth.
The Blockchain introduced trust to the internet. Up until it arrived, trust was in very short supply. Put simply, Blockchain is a single, global, unalterable record of something. It is transparent. And that is the engine under the bonnet of Bitcoin and all the other cryptocurrencies.
When you wash away all the froth and bubble (pardon the obvious pun), everything I see, hear and read about it points to cryptocurrency being the future direction of the global financial system. And it will be a simplified system – no separate currencies, no dodgy exchange rates, maybe even no banks, or at least banks as we know them today.
You can understand why financial institutions are uncomfortable with it. But that’s not stopping them from getting in on the act too. My own bank, Westpac, is an active player in the market, having a major share in one of the big crypto brokerages in Australia. And certainly, we are seeing more and more large corporations hedging their bets and taking a stake in crypto too.
There`s momentum there.
Of course, there is an environmental concern about the mining of coins, and it is absolutely valid. But the mining can stop at a certain point, once critical mass is achieved. That point may already be reached; I certainly don’t know that, but there must be a figure for it.
Then, with a global agreement on a limit set on the number of coins that are produced, the value of the coins inevitably will rise, and your share of those coins (your wealth) becomes a mathematical equation.
It might sound complex, but when you break it down to its constituent parts, it doesn’t seem that complicated to me.
At the end of the day, I think crypto is here to stay.
It’ll end in tears.
My dog eats meat
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 11 May 23:12
I always find it odd how people disregard crypto currency as "not real" but are fine using plastic IOUs and moving numbers around on digital banking. Currency is just a construct. That tenner in your wallet (if you still use cash) isn't backed by gold anymore. In theory, it could become worthless overnight. Each day it sits in your wallet it's perceived value typically DECREASES.
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Topic Originator: Berkey
Date: Wed 12 May 08:51
Enjoying these updates! I’ve started to dabble in it myself, have a small amount of Safemoon, doge and now shib.
Seems theres a good amount of money to be made but you need to be early in....seems like there’s a new ‘doge killer’ currently created every 5 minutes tho!
The post below replying to me is by one of .nets finest champions of mediocrity!
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Wed 12 May 10:51
Don't think Doge did too well after Ellon Musk's comments at the weekend, Ethereum doing well though!
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Wed 12 May 17:23
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Wed 12 May 10:51
Don't think Doge did too well after Ellon Musk's comments at the weekend, Ethereum doing well though!
Ooh, never noticed that. I got involved in an Ether Tracker a couple of years ago, it never really did much, but since you mentioned it, I just checked and its gone up 470%, which is nice
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 13 May 10:17
Tesla no longer accepting bitcoin as payment.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Thu 13 May 15:37
I'd love to know how much Musk is making playing the swings he knows his comments will make. Great thread by the way guys. Really interesting and long may the upside continue.
Post Edited (Thu 13 May 15:37)
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Topic Originator: neilholland999
Date: Thu 13 May 17:28
If anyone needs an invite to create an "Initiative Q" account, let me know as I am an existing user and can invite people in. All I will need is your email address (must be genuine to qualify for any benefits further downstream).
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Tue 18 May 07:52
Quote:
Wotsit, Tue 9 Mar 12:22
My worry with cryptocurrency is the environmental hit they create.
They are "mined" using high end, power hungry, PC equipment and cryptocurrency mining is now accounting for a significant portion of global energy use.
Tiny in comparison to the impact of manufacturing Tesla style cars...
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Tue 18 May 07:53
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Thu 13 May 10:17
Tesla no longer accepting bitcoin as payment.
However still happy to exploit kids for mining components...
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Tue 18 May 09:35
ADA was certainly stellar in the last week, saw some screen shots of a 12 month investment and it was impressive!
Big drop this week though.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Wed 19 May 19:51
Cryptos take a dive as China ramps up its curbs against the asset and the speculators.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Thu 20 May 18:05
Oz shakes his head as he go`s back to his man cave ... fires up his Pars (the glory years) 8 track and opens a few tinny`s :-))
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Thu 20 May 18:45
Don’t think China position changed at all... either way it’s dips are still about 6 times the price of where it was this time last year
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Fri 21 May 08:12
Most importantly after the experiment is complete, will you be able to buy your season ticket in Bitcoin?
If you make a profit at the end of you experiment, do you have a plan for the next step or is it Pina colada’s for you?
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Fri 21 May 11:05
Of course, there is a `next step`, Parsmad 68. But let`s not spoil the fun. The experiment has a fair way to run yet.
:)
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Fri 21 May 19:33
Quote:
OzPar, Fri 21 May 11:05
Of course, there is a `next step`, Parsmad 68. But let`s not spoil the fun. The experiment has a fair way to run yet.
:)
You should write an article to a paper of your experiences.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sun 23 May 20:12
Need your tin hat on just now!🤔🥶🤯🤮🙏
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 7 Jun 17:27
Interesting to see a naughtily names cryptocurrency skyrocket after some tweets from Elon Musk.
All seems very dodgy to me. He causes a drop in one currency as he claims it's not environmentally friendly then appears to endorse one with fairly sketchy links to the adult film industry? I realise all sorts of releases can result in price changes but this seems very iffy.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 7 Jun 17:27
Interesting to see a naughtily names cryptocurrency skyrocket after some tweets from Elon Musk.
All seems very dodgy to me. He causes a drop in one currency as he claims it's not environmentally friendly then appears to endorse one with fairly sketchy links to the adult film industry? I realise all sorts of releases can result in price changes but this seems very iffy.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 7 Jun 17:28
Interesting to see a naughtily names cryptocurrency skyrocket after some tweets from Elon Musk.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 7 Jun 17:28
Interesting to see a naughtily names cryptocurrency skyrocket after some tweets from Elon Musk.
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Topic Originator: oakley_pars
Date: Tue 24 Aug 17:21
Rather enjoyed reading and following this thread. What are the latest updates on this?
it only takes one tree to make a thousand matches, it only takes one match to burn a thousand trees
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Tue 24 Aug 20:03
After a big dip they seem to be on an upwards trend just now, slowly rising!
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Tue 24 Aug 22:28
Surely nations and big banks will do something to put a stop to some of these crypto currencies soon. Its not really credible as a currency to hold for any length of time when the tweets of a billionaire can cause its value to fluctuate so wildly. With the effect of Bitcoin mining on the planet it can't be allowed to continue
Having said that I'm still sticking with Ethereum for now and Coincillium
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Tue 24 Aug 23:25
A few bob on Ethereum along with XRP, awaiting result of court case in USA affecting the latter.
Doge seems to be a bit of a waste of time, some making big profits from ADA!
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Fri 27 Aug 13:11
Dipped my toe in for the first time in mid July, Bought Ethereum and ADA and had a 4k gain in four weeks. Fallen back now....
I am just letting it roll hoping that the trend continues upwards.
Tempted to pile in again at the next crash.........mmm?
What an opportunity we missed in 2014.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Fri 27 Aug 18:47
ADA well up today!
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Fri 27 Aug 20:58
Thanks for the reminder, oakley pars.
Well, here we are, just over six months into the experiment now, and I can reveal the Half-Yearly figures.
I launched this portfolio on 11 February, splitting the investment into $600 with Bitcoin, $600 with Doge, $100 in a basket of the top 10 capitalised coins, and $50 each on a couple of “randoms” that were climbing fast on the day – IOTA and Crypto.com.
So, where is my $1,400 today?
Bitcoin... $594 (-$6)
Doge.... $2,487 (+$1,887)
IOTA......$39 (-$11)
Crypto....$37 (-$13)
Basket....$256 (+$156)
TOTAL.....$3,413 (+$2,013)
When all is said and done, I could cash my $1,400 out today for $3,413. That is a profit of more than $2,000, or 244% in just six months. Spread over a year, we are looking at an annual interest rate of 488%...
Phenomenal numbers, but the capitalist pig in me says if I had gotten out on 9 May, when the value of my portfolio hit its peak, I would already have made more than five times my initial investment...
Clearly, Doge continues to be the star performer, more than quadrupling in value. Within the basket of ten cryptocurrencies, the star performers were Cardano, which has doubled in value, and Etherium, which has increased 50%.
So what are my impressions of crypto as an investment six months on?
Well, first, let`s stick to cold hard facts.
Had I put my $1,400 into a 6-month term deposit account at my bank, I would have received an interest rate of 1.20%. Today, the value of my account would stand at $1,416.80...
On the face of it, the $3,413 balance in cryptocurrency today looks sensational. However, a word of caution...
Take a closer look at those half-yearly figures, and what do you notice? Take away Doge, and there`s a fair quantity of minuses. Indeed, within the basket of the top 10 capitalised cryptos, only four showed a nominal profit over the six months.
If you were to subtract my $600 investment in Doge, the net $800 investment would today be worth $926. In other words, my portfolio would have gained 15.75%...
So, just like the stock exchange or even gambling, ultimately, everything depends on what horse you decide to back.
I suppose I would argue that were it not for all the hype about Doge early in the year, I very much doubt that I would have started this experiment in the first place.
Anyway, the experiment continues. Let`s see where the next six months take us...
Post Edited (Fri 27 Aug 21:04)
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Tue 31 Aug 21:51
In little over a month …
CRO, up 18%
Ethereum up 28%
ADA up 106%
BCH up 16%
Ripple up 57 %
Cant complain…….Better than sitting in the bank an ISA or a pension fund for sure…..
What an opportunity we missed in 2014.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Tue 31 Aug 22:46
I've not been following the crypto markets as I don't have any spare cash to invest but I thought Ripple was in a bit of bother after being touted as the next big thing. Is it on a come back or is that just a short term bounce?
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Wed 1 Sep 09:44
Quote:
londonparsfan, Tue 31 Aug 22:46
I've not been following the crypto markets as I don't have any spare cash to invest but I thought Ripple was in a bit of bother after being touted as the next big thing. Is it on a come back or is that just a short term bounce?
Waiting on decision from USA regulators regarding its status, meanwhile it has been withdrawn from US markets. Decision not expected till next year, so very speculative just now!
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Tue 21 Sep 22:37
Wipe out ! Took a profit a couple of weeks ago , then watched what I had left plummet. Just bailed out and sold what I had left for a loss ( after taking profit ) so I am a couple of hundred quid up overall. Should have sold the lot first time but don’t have a crystal ball.
Of course I could have just sat tight and waited for the rebound.
Will go back in again when this has bottomed out….guessing where the bottom will be is the tricky part……’
There must be millions of Investors worldwide who like me were smiling only three weeks ago and have now lost a load.
I took my eye of the ball as I am not one for following the markets per say. There are so many so called experts out there all giving conflicting advice.
Anyway I have learned a thing or two recently and luckily not lost anything. I could have made a decent profit if I had sold it all at the time.
I have a friend in the US who sold his Bitcoin many years ago after a similar crash and he swears he would have been a multi millionaire if he had kept his original coins…….not for the faint hearted this game that’s for sure.
I will be back for another punt……..when? Who knows?
What an opportunity we missed in 2014.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Wed 22 Sep 00:31
Another month goes by and yet another "wipe out".
There is a certain regularity to this that, after 7 months or so, I am growing quite used to. Every few weeks we seem to get a surge or a bust.
When reviewed over time, the graph of my portfolio value resembles a sine curve, except that it reminds me more of a tidal graph where on each rising spring tide the peak gets just that little bit higher than it was before, as does the trough.
It has yet to swing to a neap tide where the inherent value progressively declines, and I am sure there are investors out there who await a tsunami, where the tide rushes out all but disappearing, before fooding in at a ferocious rate to deliver undreamt-of profits.
As desperado has pointed out, there has been another "correction". But it helps to take a longer view to gain some perspective.
Looking at my portfolio today, its value is $2,494. That is $919 down on where it was when I reported last month, but still $1,094 up on where I started in February. In other words, my initial $1,400 has grown 78% in seven months.
Crypto clearly is not a short-term speculative market. If you want to avoid frequent heart attacks, it probably best to either avoid it altogether or adopt the view that it is best not to check its value every day.
Who knows where it will be next month? If the long-tern trend is correct, then it is likely to have increased in value.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Thu 21 Oct 08:47
Another month has gone by and, as I predicted, my portfolio has largely climbed back to where it was. It is at $3,360 today, a lift of $866 on where we left it this time last month.
Since February, my initial investment of $1,400 has grown 240% in 8 months.
Had I left my money in a fixed interest term deposit, my balance would be $1,417 at the annual rate of 1.84% currently on offer at my ever-generous bank.
The latest surge in crypto has come as more businesses, professional investors, and even the government of El Salvador buy into Bitcoin, further broadening its base beyond its initial core of fanatics.
The latest converts came into the world of crypto on Tuesday, when the first exchange-traded fund (EFT) linked to Bitcoin found massive interest from investors.
One school of thought says Bitcoin can offer investors protection from high inflation, and some fans see it as akin to “digital gold,” though it doesn`t have a long track record to back that up.
More high-minded fans say digital assets are simply the future of finance, allowing transactions to sidestep intermediaries and fees with a currency that’s not beholden to any government.
Cryptocurrencies are still very far from winning over everyone, though.
Critics - and there are a few on here - point to how they`re still not widely used as forms of payment. They also criticise how much energy is used by the cryptosystem, which adds to climate-changing emissions. It will end in tears, according to some.
These past eight months have been a rocky ride for sure, but the numbers don`t lie. If you have been following this thread from the start, you will know that apart from a brief dip in the first month, the portfolio has steadily grown in value.
At one point, in early May, I could have cashed out my $1,400 at $7,100. But that would defeat the point of this experiment. I have set a timeline of 12 months for this and right now, we are two-thirds of the way through it.
I am not risking the house and it is a little bit of fun. And, hopefully, you too find it interesting and worthwhile.
We may be glimpsing the future of finance or we could indeed be witnessing an ever-so elaborate ponzy scheme.
There`s four months to go for this experiment to play out.
Personally, my money is on the outcome being the former.
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Thu 21 Oct 09:33
Is there any underlying monthly trends you are starting to see in growth or is the volatility still clouding the market. I know it is only a small amount of data but wanted to know if there is a regular sustained growth or whether the causal events still rule the roost
Edit: also whether at these major news events. I.e. country decision announcements have any definable impact effect on the currency.
Post Edited (Thu 21 Oct 09:41)
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 21 Oct 09:39
Will be interesting to see what happens to cryptos if Evergrande defaults on its debt repayments this month.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Thu 21 Oct 23:35
I am still riding the rollercoaster with swings of a few grand per week. I don’t freak out as much now when it goes down as I am holding Eth, Ada and Vet for the long haul.
However I decided a couple of weeks ago to pump a little more into some lesser known Alt coins and have even blocked by my bank and another.
Still trying to find a way to invest a little more.
Anyone having a similar issue with bank blocking ?
What an opportunity we missed in 2014.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Fri 22 Oct 13:02
Are any of you noticing recurring events that cause the dips or increases?
Elon Musks Tweets 😉
I know it's stating the obvious but if you could sell the peaks and buy the dips then even if you only caught a relatively small number it would probably boost your P in the P&L a bit.
I know it's difficult when it's so volatile but I've never had a look to see how viable it is. I know if it was easy everyone would do it.
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Fri 22 Oct 23:18
Yes a little bit of media speculation or a tweet even by a big hitter can cause crypto to wobble. Jamie Dimon from JP Morgan made a few disparaging comments regarding Bitcoin recently. He has form spooking the market then buying at the dip himself.
Did not seem to work this time as Bitcoin had risen since his comment.
I personally don’t have the time to monitor it all. I am just sitting
tight hoping that my coins will increase substantially over the next, say five years.
I would like a little dabble on some random ridiculously low priced coins though but as I said previously I am having issues depositing Fiat due to my banks blocking the transfers.
I will find a way around that though.
Crypto is here to stay and you will make far more than leaving money rotting in a bank account…. If you can handle the wild swings.
What an opportunity we missed in 2014.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sat 23 Oct 02:29
PARSMAD68 ASKED: "Is there any underlying monthly trends you are starting to see in growth, or is the volatility still clouding the market. I know it is only a small amount of data, but I wanted to know if there is a regular, sustained growth or whether the causal events still rule the roost. Edit: also whether at these major news events. I.e. country decision announcements have any definable impact effect on the currency."
===
Interesting questions. Despite sharp fluctuations up and down, there are indeed clear trends and patterns to be seen. And if you have the patience and determination to sit these out, you will, for the most part, see the value of your portfolio grow.
I frequently mention it in this thread, but let`s, for the sake of clarity, repeat it...
THIS IS NOT A MARKET FOR SHORT-TERM INVESTORS.
One of the beauties of modern-day investing is that you can pull up endless analytical tools at the click of a computer mouse, most of which are pretty simple to comprehend. It doesn`t take too long to discern a change in a trading pattern that will point you to when a price is likely to peak or trough if carefully monitored.
The secret is not to be transfixed on what is happening at the moment but to zoom out to weeks and months, even years, to get a clearer picture of where this event sits in the overall scheme of things.
You would be amazed how often what appears to be a catastrophic plunge is but a minor and utterly predictable price dip when the graph is zoomed out far enough. Perspective is a beautiful thing.
I take the view that Elon Musk is someone to steer well clear of in the crypto market. His comments seem to me to be pure market manipulation. In any other regulated market, he would be pulled up for it, but crypto is still the relatively wild west, for how much longer remains to be seen.
The problem is that Musk has an enormous flock of devoted followers, and three words from him can prompt a rush of buying or selling. Currently, he can move a market on his own, and the result is that a lot of inexperienced investors are being sucked in and thrown out, usually losing most of their limited wealth in the process.
Increasingly, you can see the institutional investors sweeping up the bargain basement coins when the price plummets. Like it or not, crypto is fast becoming mainstream.
Not all crypto coins will survive, but many will. You have to make sure that you stick the bulk of your crypto portfolio with those coins that tend to be best supported. Don`t risk too much on what you might call "bargain stock".
As for causal events? To date, I haven`t observed any single external event that has had a long-term impact on my set of coins. And given that we`ve had the grand-daddy of Black Swan events with Covid-19, that is remarkable.
There is much talk about the Chinese Government taking a hard line on crypto, but one wonders if this is not just part of an elaborate ruse, a precursor to launching their own cryptocurrency. I have yet to meet a Chinaman who knowingly walks away from an opportunity to make money. Their adherence to rigid communism seems to me to be pretty flexible these days.
It is all about supply and demand. And as long as there is demand, my hunch is that the underlying price for cryptocurrency will continue to increase.
I mentioned this in a post two or three months ago, but I think it is probably the most pertinent comment I can make, based on my experience with cryptocurrencies so far...
The crypto price graphs most strikingly resemble Tidal Graphs showing a spring tide when observed over the long term. The price follows a clearly defined sine curve where each following peak and each following trough is notably higher than its predecessor.
This is borne out on the underlying value of my portfolio. While fluctuating up and down regularly (going from peak to peak every five to seven weeks), it has grown from $1,400 to $3,400 in eight months.
It is hard to ignore those numbers. My advice would be to get in sooner rather than later, but of course, only risk what you can afford to lose.
However, I have a nagging concern behind this optimistic picture now that crypto attracts big investment houses. My problem is that they will seek to dominate the market and, where possible, increasingly exclude the smaller investor.
I can envision a manipulated market-driven event where the bottom seemingly drops out of cryptocurrencies very quickly, much like the water disappears from the beach ahead of a tsunami. As the small investors sell in panic, the institutions sweep up the coins, and suddenly, the tsunami arrives with force and crypto prices climb to once-unthinkable levels.
Of course, the secret then would be to recognise this while it was happening, hold on to your coins, and buy like mad on the plunge. Then, you have to hang on for the ride, check the new value of your portfolio, and calmly announce your retirement...
Post Edited (Sat 23 Oct 02:52)
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Sat 23 Oct 09:04
Cheers Oz/Desperado!
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sat 23 Oct 09:49
I'll be keeping my hard-earned as far away as possible from this.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sat 23 Oct 10:42
Ipswich, if you invest in crypto all you have to do is get another two people to invest in it after you and then for them both to get another two people to invest and so on and you`ll see your investment rise.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Sat 23 Oct 11:48
If you put it like that TOWK I might reconsider. What could go wrong?
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sat 23 Oct 12:03
Nothing will go wrong Ipswich as long as nobody tells the emperor he has no clothes on.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sat 23 Oct 12:20
Ipswich/TOWK - you are perfectly entitled to be sceptical, but one thing crypto is not is a pyramid scheme. It is structured in an entirely different way and, through Blockchain, has accountable financial trails.
Currently, I have a very handy two grand that I didn`t have eight months ago to fund a new suit for the Emporer should he need it in an emergency.
:)
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sat 23 Oct 12:39
Hey I didn`t say nobody won`t make money out of it. Of course those profits are only realised when the coins are sold. Its interesting to note that about one third of all Bitcoin currently in existence are owned by about 1000 people.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Wed 27 Oct 13:49
Shiba Inu has been one I recently had a flutter on, trebled my money in a couple of weeks. Some decent gains today on that. It is a gamble though, don't put your money in to crypto unless you are prepared to lose it
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Thu 28 Oct 06:42
"Hey I didn`t say nobody won`t make money out of it. Of course those profits are only realised when the coins are sold"
Or used to buy stuff as a currency themselves?
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Tue 2 Nov 07:28
For me, all the other coins are just a fad and the big question is when do you get on the bitcoin bus?
ie what price do you invest. Yes it has the odd tidal blip but it recovers quick and the trajectory is upwards - this will only increase as there is a finite supply and the max is getting nearer, big players are buying in and while gov's may not like it - at the end of the day they can't control it or tax it - you have to ask when do you jump as long term I don't think it's a boat you want to miss
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Tue 2 Nov 09:03
As far as bitcoin goes none of us will be alive to see it hit its max.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh
Date: Tue 2 Nov 13:48
That is true, but mostly because we will all be fried because of the CO2 generated by pointless bitcoin mining.
If someone had told me 10 years ago that mining could destroy the planet I would have assumed it would be coal mining and not this nonsense.
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Tue 2 Nov 17:05
Interesting Dispatches last night where economists/lawyers were making the point that our economic approach is killing us. Case and point with generating some weird non physical coins which suddenly are worth a lot of money.
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Topic Originator: GG4
Date: Tue 2 Nov 21:46
Topic Originator: red-star-par like | nolike
Date: Wed 27 Oct 13:49
Shiba Inu has been one I recently had a flutter on, trebled my money in a couple of weeks. Some decent gains today on that. It is a gamble though, don`t put your money in to crypto unless you are prepared to lose it
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Report Abuse Reply To This
Red star what app do you use if you don`t mind saying please?
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Wed 3 Nov 11:17
The Commonwealth Bank of Australia will allow its customers to buy and sell cryptocurrency through its app, in the first move of its kind by a major Australian bank.
Australia’s largest bank announced on Wednesday it had partnered with US-based crypto exchange Gemini and blockchain analysis firm Chainalysis to offer the service to its 6.5m CommBank app users.
Customers will be able to buy up to 10 crypto assets including bitcoin, Ethereum and Litecoin.
The bank will conduct a pilot in the next few weeks, ahead of a wider launch in 2022.
“We believe we can play an important role in crypto to address what’s clearly a growing customer need and provide capability, security and confidence in a crypto trading platform,” CBA’s chief executive Matt Comyn said in a statement.
The bank said research on its customers found many had either expressed interest in crypto assets, or were already trading crypto through exchanges.
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Wed 3 Nov 13:07
Who will be the custodian Oz?
Much better to self custody in my opinion
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Wed 3 Nov 17:59
Quote:
GG4, Tue 2 Nov 21:46
Topic Originator: red-star-par like | nolike
Date: Wed 27 Oct 13:49
Shiba Inu has been one I recently had a flutter on, trebled my money in a couple of weeks. Some decent gains today on that. It is a gamble though, don`t put your money in to crypto unless you are prepared to lose it
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Report Abuse Reply To This
Red star what app do you use if you don`t mind saying please?
Coinbase, it's a really simple app, and you can buy and sell quickly. The first time I had to link it to my bank account however, it did take a few tries to go through, mostly as Halifax thought there was some fraudulent activity on my account. A couple of text messages from the bank to confirm it was me and a 10 minute delay sorted it though
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Topic Originator: GG4
Date: Wed 3 Nov 19:01
Thanks Red Star. Appreciated.
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Topic Originator: Bigfoot
Date: Thu 11 Nov 14:10
Thanks for the updates OZPar - your posts were enough to get me to invest in Crypto.
I opted for an unknown currency and am currently showing a $120 loss on an $800 initial investment.
For now I am keeping my nerve, and hoping it will rise at some point. I think I`ll split this into the safer "BTC" and take a punt on the the rest.
AS everyone has said - it`s a bit of a lottery buying unknown and I can`t highlight enough only invest what you are prepared to lose.
Jesus saves, but Kirk nets rebound
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Thu 11 Nov 15:39
I would touch anything other than bitcoin and be sure to self custody!!!
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Mon 11 Dec 12:48
I have been searching for this thread, not realising how old it is. I finally located it today. It is hard to believe I started this back in March 2021. I had pretty much forgotten about it. Anyway, that`s 2 years and 9 months since I stuck $1,400 into crypto-currency, how much is it worth today?
I split the investment into $600 with Bitcoin, $600 with Doge, $100 in a basket of the top 10 capitalised coins, and $50 each on a couple of “randoms” that were climbing fast on the day – IOTA and Crypto.com.
The answer is that today my portfolio is worth $2,074. That`s a gain of $674 over 33 months, which I estimate to be about 17.5% annual growth. Here are today`s values.
Bitcoin............. $871
Doge............... $959
Top 10............. $203
IOTA................ $41
Crypto.com....... zero
If I had stuck that $1,400 in a local bank deposit account, I would be doing well if I earned $100 in interest over 33 months.
I think it is fair to say this has been an interesting and worthwhile experiment.
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Topic Originator: Bigfoot
Date: Mon 11 Dec 13:23
Thanks Oz - I was looking for your post and hoping for an update.
I unfortunately bought pretty much at the peak in Septemebr 2022 - only for it to fall drastically. My numbers have been mindlowingly in the red.
I`ve then invested toward the lower end of the trough and benefitted from the recent rally.
As it sits today, my numbers on the board are as follows
Bitcoin -21.5%
Doge -67.6%
Celo -23.5%
Mana -43.55%
Filecoin - 47.51%
EOS - 55.34%
FTT +5.55%
Matic -58.23%
ANkr - 60.31%
REN - 50.57%
Fantom -72.7%
Believe it or not these are not the worst numbers - they used to sit at around -80% and worse!
Clearly I am in it for the long haul - but won`t be retiring on those numbers - I can only re-emphasise crypto to is a a total gamble.
Enjoy th eride and be prepared to lose your shirt!
Jesus saves, but Kirk nets rebound
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Mon 11 Dec 13:44
Yes Bigfoot, those are shocking numbers on first view.
I note that I have two coins in your portfolio - Bitcoin and Doge. Where you show sizeable drops with those coins, I show sizeable rises. So, the issue is timing. As you say, September 2022, when you entered, was a peak. Hopefully, your numbers will markedly improve given a bit of time and, doubtless, patience.
I agree that crypto is a gamble, and the message to everyone is don`t bet the house. Be prepared to view it long term.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Mon 11 Dec 14:32
Still waiting on XRP rocketing!😎
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Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Wed 13 Dec 07:56
A very interesting read OZ and thank you for all your interesting posts. Great read.
I have been following your experiment with interest.
I have not invested in any crypto myself for fear that it does not have the support and backing of most countries.
It is not widely used as a currency (buying/selling goods) that lubricates the economy but seen more as an investment to hold until you can find someone to buy it from you at a higher price.
A currency has to work for the economy. It`s lubrication for the engine.
In my opinion, eventually the market will become more saturated with coins made from fresh air that will never be spent on goods and the investors will become fewer causing the mother of all crashes.
Crypto obviously is not for everyone and a bit too risky for me.
I have studied Warren Buffets style and disciplined myself to buying quality shares at a reasonable price.
Over the past 6 years I have drip-fed a set amount each month in roughly 30 shares and funds primarily in UK, USA and Europe and have an unrealised profit of around 50% which I am relatively happy with considering the storms of Brexit, Covid and Vladimir Putin
Please keep posting. I am very keen to read of your progress.
DunfyDave
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Wed 13 Dec 12:57
Being able to spend it is an issue right now that gov etc will not want you to be able to do as they lose sight/tax… but nothing to stop you offering to pay that way if the vendor or supplier interested which could easily then go as undeclared
My only advice is to self custody-do not leave your crypto on an exchange or even software wallet on your machine
So by self custody I mean, but an offline hardware wallet (eg https://amzn.eu/d/0PqUIIy as move your bitcoin to it - then store that securely. Keep your recovery code elsewhere (offline) should you lose your hardware wallet
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Thu 14 Dec 14:22
With Crypto you basically have two choices…..one buy and hold and hope that over a significant period of time you will see a good profit, bearing in mind that during a bear market the value of most Alt coins can drop as much as 90% !
And yes keep it in a hard wallet.
Or two you can trade which means keeping and eye on the market, and buying/selling on a daily/ weekly basis, which we can say is not for the faint hearted as the swings can be considerable especially during a bull run which by the way we are just starting now….if you are trading then better to set a profit/loss limit. I tried this a couple of years ago and did ok but it was starting to consume a lot of my spare time and hardly an hour went past without me checking the prices. You will most certainly miss a huge crash at some point and see a good chuck of your profit vanish in an instant ….’.that’s why it’s prudent to set up the profit/loss limit.
I am just hodling my coins just now as we are entering a bull run…..I think…..just now and with the bitcoin halving due early next year this usually signals a rise in value of BTC and indeed most Alt coins.
If anyone is thinking of dipping their toe in the water then now is as good a time as any……
What an opportunity we missed in 2014.
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Thu 11 Jan 14:59
Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Thu 14 Dec 14:22
With Crypto you basically have two choices…..one buy and hold and hope that over a significant period of time you will see a good profit, bearing in mind that during a bear market the value of most Alt coins can drop as much as 90% !
And yes keep it in a hard wallet.
Or two you can trade which means keeping and eye on the market, and buying/selling on a daily/ weekly basis, which we can say is not for the faint hearted as the swings can be considerable especially during a bull run which by the way we are just starting now….if you are trading then better to set a profit/loss limit. I tried this a couple of years ago and did ok but it was starting to consume a lot of my spare time and hardly an hour went past without me checking the prices. You will most certainly miss a huge crash at some point and see a good chuck of your profit vanish in an instant ….’.that’s why it’s prudent to set up the profit/loss limit.
I am just hodling my coins just now as we are entering a bull run…..I think…..just now and with the bitcoin halving due early next year this usually signals a rise in value of BTC and indeed most Alt coins.
If anyone is thinking of dipping their toe in the water then now is as good a time as any……
As I said ……big gains today. It will continue…. With dips of course until bit coin halving in April then 🚀
What an opportunity we missed in 2014.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Wed 14 Feb 11:40
We`re now 35 months into this little project, and crypto still holds up quite well. There`s been a bit of a climb in the past five or six days, and my portfolio sits at $2,182, which is more than a $100 rise from when I last reported two months ago (when it sat at $2,074).
Here are today`s values with the change from December 11 in brackets:
Bitcoin............. $1,070 (+199)
Doge............... $814 (-145)
Top 10............. $256 (+53)
IOTA................ $42 (+1)
Crypto.com....... zero
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Wed 14 Feb 11:58
This time next year Rodney :-)
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Wed 14 Feb 14:02
It`s like Tulip Mania. Still, money to be made if you can get in and out at the right time
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Thu 15 Feb 04:11
It isn`t like Tulip Mania at all. The philosophy behind crypto is entirely different, and it is underpinned by genuine technology that is entirely transparent - the Blockchain. Its current weakness is a lack of proper regulation, which means a risk of manipulation exists, as we saw with Elon Musk and Doge a while back.
The past 24 hours have seen another surge in crypto. The value of my stock has risen to $2,251. That`s a rise of $69 in a day. Remember that my original investment was $1,400, so that`s a return of more than 60% in three years.
A decent pension fund will give you a return of 10% per annum. So, if I had put my $1,400 in there three years ago, with compound interest, it would be worth $1,863 today. Had I stuck it in the bank, I might have got 5% in an interest-bearing savings account today, but for most of the three years, my bank has been offering a less than generous 1-1.5%.
Honestly, I thought there was a good chance I would lose my $1,400 long before now. It was a risk I was prepared to take, for I would have spent that money and more on holidays or weekend breaks had it not been for Covid, so this experiment has just been a bit of innocent fun combined with a bit of education.
Over the three years, there have been a couple of occasions where the value of my investment dipped into the red, below $1,400, but for the most part, it has remained in the black and healthily so.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 15 Feb 10:23
Surely by the Autumn of 2022 you were severely in the red when bit coin crashed from 40k when you bought it 18 months previously down to 15k? Granted it`s now climbed back up so you are again firmly in positive territory from your canny doge coin punt.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Thu 15 Feb 10:53
October 12 was the low point when my portfolio dropped to $1,153. That was me down $247 on my original investment. It was hardly ruinous, though.
The critical point is that my portfolio is relatively low in value and reasonably balanced. I split the original investment into $600 with Bitcoin, $600 with Doge, $100 in a basket of the top 10 capitalised coins, and $50 each on a couple of “randoms” that were climbing fast on the day – IOTA and Crypto.com.
The randoms have both lost me money, but the others have all brought in profits over time. Generally speaking, the best capitalised cryptos seem to be the ones that perform best.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Thu 15 Feb 11:49
Up and down, like a w*ores knickers!💰💰💰
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Thu 15 Feb 13:02
I`d urge people to tread carefully though, it`s very much like gambling. And you only really hear from a gambler when things are going well. They don`t often should about their losses.
Money to be made, and lost, on this
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Thu 15 Feb 13:27
It may be up and down when you look at short term, but the overall trajectory is going up and all evidence suggests it will continue in that direction
Edited to say I’m talking about bitcoin only - that’s the only one I’d go near although Govs are trying to wrap regulation round it so will become more difficult to transfer to and from fiat currencies
Post Edited (Thu 15 Feb 13:30)
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Thu 15 Feb 13:58
Quote:
Buspasspar, Wed 14 Feb 11:58
This time next year Rodney :-)
Time to start looking for clocks in yer garage…
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Thu 15 Feb 14:06
Quote:
DBP, Thu 15 Feb 13:27
Edited to say I’m talking about bitcoin only - that’s the only one I’d go near although Govs are trying to wrap regulation round it so will become more difficult to transfer to and from fiat currencies
Various institutions have enabled MasterCard accounts linked to your Bitcoin wallet.
I’m with Xapo bank, and can spend easily enough.
Not tried transferrring out or even withdrawing cash yet, but assume that’s ok too.
Might be a different story if it was significant sums tho - I’ve only got about 0.6 of a btc
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Thu 15 Feb 15:43
When I say difficult, I suppose I mean tracked. Regulated. Taxed Etc! But that’s only entry and exit.
You even have to sit a mandatory training type exam now in the uk before you can purchase!
Also don’t keep your btc on any app or mobile bank- they’ll probably be arsey about how much you can transfer at a time to any different wallet and they’ll ask about who own it etc - but make sure you have an offline cold wallet - ie self custody!
Post Edited (Thu 15 Feb 15:46)
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 15 Feb 16:08
Profits from trading crypto currency are taxable.
ETA: At least in the UK
ETA again: Sorry DBP I misunderstood your last post
Post Edited (Thu 15 Feb 16:11)
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Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Fri 16 Feb 08:57
You can`t call it "currency".
Currency is the lubrication that greases the cog-wheels of an economy with spending.
The vast majority of crypto is hoarded like an investment in the hope that it goes up. Similar to what OzPar is experimenting with here on this forum and will only realize profits if people continue to invest. Most don`t spend crypto, they trade like the non-existent gold that it is.
If it ever transitions from "investment status" to that of a true currency then perhaps it may have a chance of survival but I have my doubts.
Their promoters and supporters suggest that it is a safer, less restrictive alternative to regular monetary transactions/flows claiming the current system is flawed and perhaps straining. They have a point when considering the "Credit Crunch" in 2008 which came perilously close to collapse without governmental action.
However, more crypto currencies have succumbed historically than any countries currency.
The Russian Rouble pre-Glasnost almost mirrored the US$ on a 1:1 exchange rate. It collapsed to R4,500 - $1 almost overnight but later stabilised and recovered.
I run my own business and export worldwide and have never experienced any issues or delays with foreign exchange. The system ain`t broken nor under threat but it is expensive and perhaps needs more competition.
In my humble opinion the crypto story does have "tulip mania" written all over it. It has similarities to the "Game Stop" story with hoards of amateur online investors coming together on mass to fight big hedge funds short-selling the company by investing in what ultimately was a failing company with an exceptionally poor balance sheet. The story ends with Game Stops closure but some people whom timed their investment strategy perfectly made millions. Most lost.
DunfyDave
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Mon 19 Feb 04:48
DunfyDave, you raise several valid points about cryptocurrency. Yes, a large portion of crypto ownership involves holding it as an investment rather than using it for transactions, which can contribute to volatility and hinder its role as a true currency.
And it`s true that the widespread acceptance of crypto for everyday purchases is low, limiting its practicality as a common currency.
However, while currently used primarily for investment, cryptocurrencies are exploring and implementing real-world uses through microtransactions, smart contracts, and tokenisation of assets. The blockchain, which provides the electronic infrastructure that underpins crypto, is everywhere. The decentralised and tamper-resistant nature of blockchain makes it an ideal technology for recording and verifying transactions.
You mention you are involved in exporting internationally. Then, you will be familiar with the Bill of Lading, the legal document issued by a carrier to the shipper of goods. I remember attending lectures on the use of blockchain technology in the context of Bills of Lading in the mid-2010s. Before the electronic lodgement of Bills of Lading, your desk would have been covered in bits of paper requiring your signature before your goods were freed to move internationally.
How we have progressed.
As far as I understand, efforts are underway to regulate the crypto space, potentially leading to increased stability and trust. Crypto offers advantages like faster cross-border transactions, lower fees for specific applications, and potential accessibility for unbanked populations.
Traditional financial systems have faced issues like inflation, inequality, and limited access. Crypto promises more decentralisation and transparency thanks to blockchain, addressing some of these concerns. Crypto can catalyse innovation and competition in the financial sector, potentially benefiting users even if it doesn`t fully replace existing systems.
The truth is that crypto has the potential to completely overturn the existing banking systems, and that, in good part, explains why it is facing such stiff resistance from the financial community. But you can`t ignore that the same bankers and fund managers are trying to get their hands on crypto as quickly as possible.
You rightly highlight the challenges and risks associated with cryptocurrency. However, it`s important to recognise its potential for innovation and evolution. Whether it becomes a mainstream currency or finds niche applications, crypto will likely continue impacting the financial landscape. Ultimately, I think understanding both sides of the debate is crucial for informed decision-making.
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Mon 19 Feb 15:13
BTC is legal tender in El Salvador with the same status as USD, so I think you could now call it a currency
apart from growing regulation and gov`s trying to determine exactly where and to whom you`re sending funds, I can`t think of anything that would stop me from taking bitcoin as payment?
I have family in Ireland, and have previously sent bitcoin over to them as opposed to sending money and paying FX charges
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Wed 28 Feb 17:27
Sky rocketing 🚀
What an opportunity we missed in 2014.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Wed 28 Feb 20:58
Yes, it is on its sharpest rise in 12 months. When I last reported on February 15, my portfolio was $2,251. Today, it stands at $2,727.
Here are today`s values with the change from February 15 in brackets:
Bitcoin............. $1,247 (+177)
Doge............... $1,114 (+300)
Top 10............. $323 (+67)
IOTA................ $43 (+1)
Crypto.com....... zero
Post Edited (Wed 28 Feb 21:16)
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Tue 5 Mar 01:53
It is six days since my last post, which indicated that the value of my crypto portfolio was starting to rise quite sharply.
At the time, it had risen to $2,727, but since then, it has climbed more than a thousand dollars - yes, that`s right, a thousand dollars - to $3,755, and it is still rising. Remember that when I began this three years ago, my investment was $1,400.
Here are today`s values with the change from February 28 in brackets:-
Bitcoin............. $1,423 (+176)
Doge............... $1,942 (+828)
Top 10............. $339 (+16)
IOTA................ $51 (+8)
Crypto.com....... zero
I would never recommend crypto to anyone. It is fun to follow, but whatever way you look at it, it is not for the short-term investor. A heart attack lies in wait. The repetitive rises and falls, while predictable in the sense that they will likely happen, are so random as to be chaotic in terms of timing. Only enter this market with money you can afford to lose.
Every now and again, there is a massive surge like this one that I am experiencing. When you are on it, it feels like what it must have felt like for those whalers on a "Nantucket Sleighride" after they speared the whale. Pure excitement until the whale takes a deep dive.
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Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Tue 5 Mar 08:56
That is an awesome return OzPar. Stunning in fact at almost 170% in such a short period.
Maybe an idea to sell now and buy back again when that whale decides to dive into the deep?
DunfyDave
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Tue 5 Mar 09:06
Hold or sell is the big quandary, plenty of green trading in my portfolio, but for how long?🤔💥🙈
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Wed 6 Mar 18:32
Oz G`day can you convert your crypto gains back into real money ?
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Thu 7 Mar 06:20
Yes you can, you can buy and sell crypto currencies like shares.
However, it’s also like a currency as well, so similar to having pounds and pence in a mobile banking app. Eg I have a wallet with bitcoin in it, let’s say you were a tradesmen and I wanted you to do an old fashion ‘Homer’ for me. We could agree a price (and therefore Bitcoin equivalent) and I could send that amount over to your wallet when the job was done.
Like cash, if I sent the money over via a bank app then it would be tracked, but if I gave you cash direct from my (offline anonymous cold) wallet and you put it in your similar wallet, then no one (tax man) would know…
Think I said earlier, I’ve sent money over to Ireland and paid in Bitcoin (super easy, no trace, no foreign exchange costs, nobody’s business but my own)
Post Edited (Thu 07 Mar 06:22)
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Thu 7 Mar 21:39
Thanks for answering that question, DBP. As for the issue of selling before it dips, I have almost reached the point now, three years in, where I am reluctant to sell because I find the whole thing fascinating and would miss these dramatic ups and downs in my life. Isn`t that why we all support the Pars?
:)
As I have stressed, you only risk what you can afford to lose in crypto and avoid short-term trading unless you want a coronary. The recent rise ended on March 5th, peaking at $3,815 before going for a swim. It plunged to $2,979 by 7 a.m. the following day. However, by 11 o`clock that night, it had recovered to $3,424. Since then, it seems to have steadied around the $3,300 mark.
If the portfolio remains hovering in that region, that is still a notable gain. It had been sitting in the $1,800-2,000 range through December and January.
The whole idea behind this was to treat it as an experiment, to see if the dramatic claims were true or whether it was a modern form of Tulipmania.
Tulipmania was a short-lived phenomenon; it lasted three years, about the same time we have been doing this experiment. Last time I checked, crypto had been around for over 15 years, so I am betting it is not Tulipmania.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Mon 11 Mar 20:39
Given that this experiment has reached its third anniversary, here are today’s figures compared to the original investment. I find it remarkable that this thread has now passed 70,000 views.
MARCH 2021
Bitcoin……... $600
Doge………... $600
Top 10………. $100
IOTA………….. $50
Crypto.com… $50
TOTAL…………$1,400
MARCH 2024
Bitcoin……... $1,475
Doge………... $1,685
Top 10………. $386
IOTA………….. $57
Crypto.com… $00
TOTAL…………$3,603
Post Edited (Mon 11 Mar 20:40)
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Mon 11 Mar 21:47
I’ve bought £100 of Bitcoin in December through Revolut (ps never use Revolut to buy Bitcoin!)
I use it as a barometer to easily calculate what my offline wallet will be worth…
Anyway, my £100 in December, as of this moment is worth £178.75.
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Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Mon 11 Mar 21:49
Top10 a clear winner % wise but DOGE raking in the OZ$
Cash in and enjoy the CastleMaine XXXX for your labours and toast your profits with a "Shoe`ey" whilst tossing another kangaroo on the barb`ey mate.
That is some return.
And a good exercise executed.
Well done cobber 👍
DunfyDave
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Wed 13 Mar 08:47
I haven’t dipped into the crypto market but have a small number of shares in Rolls Royce through Trading 212 - hardest part is building a portfolio/bankroll to make it more profitable financially. So far the value has increased though!
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Wed 13 Mar 13:21
Hi, So it’s easy to buy through Revolut but they are a complete ball ache if you then try to move your Bitcoin to a different wallet - PS you don’t want to keep your holding on an exchange (so you must get your coins off Coinbase/Revolut/etc ideally into an offline cold wallet)
They have quite small (£) daily/monthly transfer limits (which costs you a base fee each time) so you could find yourself (through ongoing investments and growth) having to make lots of paid transactions to move your holdings over several days and months to your own (self custody) wallet
Post Edited (Wed 13 Mar 13:22)
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Tue 19 Mar 11:06
Quote:
DBP, Wed 13 Mar 13:21
- PS you don’t want to keep your holding on an exchange (so you must get your coins off Coinbase/Revolut/etc ideally into an offline
Care to give some insights on this pls?
I have a small amount in Xapo bank, on which they pay interest…
However, for them to be able to pay interest, they must surely be lending them out, or securitising on their value… risky?
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Wed 20 Mar 19:02
Hey Lux
Haven’t heard of them specifically, but sounds similar to company called Nexo who operate out of Romania - wouldn’t use them as same issue about re-lending. I’m sure there’s examples of a good proposition / model, but while there is a clear upward trend in value, there is a Bitcoin cycle of sharp increases and falls, during which there’s normally one or more of those types of companies over extends and doesn’t make it - so I’d rather not get caught work my erse hanging out the window!
Reason I say get your Bitcoin off exchanges etc is because it’s always more secure and better to self custody, and for that to be offline and therefore completely unable to be hacked or stolen by bad agent, bad employee or bad management of the exchange
Post Edited (Thu 21 Mar 07:20)
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Thu 21 Mar 17:16
Yup - can you give an idiots guide to getting/storing an offline wallet?
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Thu 21 Mar 18:18
So you said you had a small amount… so that’s a relative statement but assuming it’s no more than a few thousand then something like this will do the job:
https://amzn.eu/d/dhyGptc
I’m actually on holiday right now, in the highlands so I’ll look out a couple of tutorials from YouTube and send on
If I’ve done that link correctly, it’ll take you to a thing called trezor one - like a fancy usb stick
Post Edited (Thu 21 Mar 22:10)
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Wed 10 Apr 23:56
Another month has gone by, and here`s where we are for April:
Bitcoin 1471 (1475) -4
Doge. 1965 (1685). +280
Top 10. 410 (386). +24
IOTA. 47 (57). -10
Crypto.com. 0. (0). -
TOTAL. $3893 ($3603) +$290
* March figures in brackets
Bitcoin seems to have stabilised this month, while Doge continues on its merry way. Is Elon Musk quietly playing one of his games with Doge?
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Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Thu 11 Apr 09:19
I love watching this thread Oz and thank you for the monthly report.
I invest in roughly 25 stocks and 25 funds worldwide in the conventional stock market and also religiously prepare a monthly report to assess and analyse.
You jumped an impressive 8% in one month whilst I only moved 5%.
DunfyDave
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Fri 12 Apr 15:53
Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Thu 21 Mar 17:16
Yup - can you give an idiots guide to getting/storing an offline wallet?
Trezor is what I use. No issues
What an opportunity we missed in 2014.
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Fri 12 Apr 17:51
Apologies Forgot about I said I’d send a guide…
There’s easy to follow videos on you tube from trezor…
Did you get one in the end lux?
If you did then will fish out and send over link
Post Edited (Fri 12 Apr 17:51)
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Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Fri 10 May 09:01
Hello Oz
Patiently waiting your updates for this month. Be interesting to see your growth figures for April.
I thoroughly enjoy your reports on your little experiment as I like to compare them to my investments which did rather nicely this last month at nearly 8% growth.
Funnily enough my biggest mover is a company called Plus500 whom have daily been hitting record highs in excess of £22 per share. They are a trading platform for crypto.
DunfyDave
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Fri 10 May 13:08
Bitcoin is still up 60% from December 2023 - it’s been hovering about that price for few months
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Wed 15 May 01:20
Apologies for the delay. My crypto account has been on a rollercoaster, experiencing one of its periodic dips.
Here`s how things stand today:-
Bitcoin. $1257 ($1471). -$214
Doge. $1400 ($1965). -$565
Top 10. $375 ($410). -$35
IOTA. $30 ($47). -$17
Crypto.com. 0. (0). -
TOTAL. $3062 ($3893) -$831
* April figures in brackets
My portfolio has taken a hammering this month. The 21% dip in earnings in April is nasty, but it is indicative of the crypto market, which has this tendency to fluctuate dramatically. Remember, my initial investment was $1,400, so we are still well ahead. Let`s see if this dip continues next month or whether, as I would anticipate, we will continue to follow the sine curve and be back on an upward climb again.
It`s certainly a dynamic market, isn`t it?
:)
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Fri 5 Jul 10:50
Quote:
OzPar, Wed 15 May 01:20
Apologies for the delay. My crypto account has been on a rollercoaster, experiencing one of its periodic dips.
Here`s how things stand today:-
Bitcoin. $1257 ($1471). -$214
Doge. $1400 ($1965). -$565
Top 10. $375 ($410). -$35
IOTA. $30 ($47). -$17
Crypto.com. 0. (0). -
TOTAL. $3062 ($3893) -$831
* April figures in brackets
My portfolio has taken a hammering this month. The 21% dip in earnings in April is nasty, but it is indicative of the crypto market, which has this tendency to fluctuate dramatically. Remember, my initial investment was $1,400, so we are still well ahead. Let`s see if this dip continues next month or whether, as I would anticipate, we will continue to follow the sine curve and be back on an upward climb again.
It`s certainly a dynamic market, isn`t it?
:)
Taking some hammering today, GE result?🤔🙈
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 5 Jul 12:30
US Fed indicating that interest rates are likely not to be cut in the next few months.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Sat 6 Jul 17:34
I’m still 42% up since December - so fall compared to very recent prices but still a great horse to back!
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Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Mon 8 Jul 12:48
Thanks for the update Oz
Ouch 21% down in a month is a sore one especially when the FTSE has been doing so well of late and on a nice little run.
Upside is of course that you have still doubled your initial outlay.
DunfyDave
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Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Wed 7 Aug 08:59
This week`s catastrophic crash in the stock markets saw my stocks drop by over 3% and wiping thousands from my portfolio.
Amazon stocks alone plunged by 10% and reduced to $158 per share from a year high of $201
Be interesting to get updates from Oz and DPB on how your crypto experiment faired during this turbulent period.
DunfyDave
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Wed 7 Aug 09:30
Quote:
DunfyDave, Wed 7 Aug 08:59
This week`s catastrophic crash in the stock markets saw my stocks drop by over 3% and wiping thousands from my portfolio.
Amazon stocks alone plunged by 10% and reduced to $158 per share from a year high of $201
Be interesting to get updates from Oz and DPB on how your crypto experiment faired during this turbulent period.
Is it still low after the market rebound?
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Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Wed 7 Aug 11:51
Quote:
parsmad68, Wed 7 Aug 09:30
Quote:
DunfyDave, Wed 7 Aug 08:59
This week`s catastrophic crash in the stock markets saw my stocks drop by over 3% and wiping thousands from my portfolio.
Amazon stocks alone plunged by 10% and reduced to $158 per share from a year high of $201
Be interesting to get updates from Oz and DPB on how your crypto experiment faired during this turbulent period.
Is it still low after the market rebound?
It still has a way to go to catch-up the downside PM68
Amazon is currently at $162 and needs to make it up to $185 when it fell of a cliff.
DunfyDave
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Wed 7 Aug 15:23
Quote:
DunfyDave, Wed 7 Aug 08:59
Be interesting to get updates from Oz and DPB on how your crypto experiment faired during this turbulent period.
BTC took a dive of about 28% since the high on 29 July
but has recovered 10% (roughly a third of the drop) of that back in the last two days.
70k -> 50k -> 57k
Wouldn’t have my pension in there, but it’s fine for a flutter
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Thu 8 Aug 03:43
Yes, the crypto market has taken a fair bit of a bashing these past four months. On 30 March, my portfolio broke through the 4k barrier, peaking at $4,013. It has been slowly reducing since then, with today`s balance sitting at $2,503.
Bear in mind that my initial investment 3.5 years ago was $1,400.
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Thu 8 Aug 06:04
Just stick with Bitcoin oz…
Value does go in cycles, but only in one direction and even with drops it’s still up 40% from Christmas
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Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Fri 9 Aug 12:11
Looks like even though you took a hit of nearly 40% you are still up around 70% since the start of your experiment.
Have to admit that is a fantastic ROI over the timeframe.
In the same timeframe, my investments spread over a mix of quality stocks managed a a mere 60% ROI
At your dizzy height you achieved 186% return and I wish you well on your journey back there.
DunfyDave
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Fri 9 Aug 12:28
All a big scam.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Fri 18 Oct 07:24
I must admit I have not paid much attention to the market recently. The last time I reported, in August, my portfolio, worth $2,503, looked pretty gloomy. It slumped further to a low of $2,301 on 9 September, but it has been on a steady rise since and is sitting today at $3,012, back to where we were when I reported in May.
I launched this portfolio on 11 February 2021, splitting the investment into $600 with Bitcoin, $600 with Doge, $100 in a basket of the top 10 capitalised coins, and $50 each on a couple of “randoms” that were climbing fast on the day – IOTA and Crypto.com.
So, where is my $1,400 today?
Bitcoin... $1,368
Doge.... $1,257
IOTA......$18
Crypto....$0 (-$50)
Basket....$369 (+$269)
TOTAL.....$3,012 (+$1,612)
That’s 44 months into this, and I have more than doubled my investment. Not bad at all. I think I will hang in there until 48 months, then cash out and give any profits to charity.
Four years is sufficient time to support the argument that crypto has legs, but I say that with strong reservations. I carefully selected my portfolio from the most capitalised coins, and with few exceptions, they have done me very well. As an essential part of the experiment, I chose a couple of randoms that were the best performers on the day I began. And -surprise, surprise – they both tanked! The moral there perhaps is, don’t chase rainbows; look for the evidence that time provides. And never risk more than you can afford to lose.
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Fri 18 Oct 13:59
I’m writing ye my Christmas list, Oz
😉
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Sat 19 Oct 10:39
A return over 100% in three and a half years is a bloody good return Oz. Well done you 👏
I always enjoy reading your wee updates Oz and appreciate your posts. Thank you.
My risk appetite is bland even after reading and following your amazing progress.
I came close to investing in a US Company, Microstrategy, whom closely follow/invest in crypto but chickened-out. Now they are absolutely flying from $32 to $220 in a year with over a 500% return. Damn!
I think my major fear with crypto boils down to it being manufactured from thin-air. It was invented as a currency yet most tend to treat it as an investment rather than something you spend. It also has little government backing.
Another fear is the number of inventors that followed suit only to go bankrupt with some facing criminal sanctions only tarred the image of crypto.
My wife`s uncle is an Oxford graduated economist and he is the opposite of me and warmly supports crypto in theory claiming that the system is far superior to the fractional reserve banking system currently employed worldwide.
I hasten to add however that after probing him, I discovered that he has several bank accounts, ISA`s, SIPP`s and invests in the stock market with many banking stocks but ZERO investments in crypto 😉
Perhaps with the ongoing threat from Russia, Iran, North Korea and Trump America all this wonderful debate of investments and crypto will amount to nothing and tomorrow`s hot currency will be bullets and ammunition 🤔
DunfyDave
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Thu 7 Nov 10:49
Trump`s win yesterday has had a dazzling effect on my crypto portfolio. It has sharply climbed in the past 48 hours to $3,852, a rise of $840 since I last reported here on 18 October.
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Topic Originator: DunfyDave
Date: Thu 7 Nov 16:40
Hang on to your BTC OzPar.
The US listed company Microstrategy are planning to purchase $42B in the next two and half years which should drive price skywards.
There stock price has gone from a year low of $44 to $265 in a year
DunfyDave
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Thu 7 Nov 20:16
My Bitcoin is up 80% from its value in December alone
PS Oz get rid of all you other crypto and get it on the only real contender Bitcoin… it’s about to skyrocket due to strategic decisions being made by the new president
Post Edited (Sat 09 Nov 16:51)
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Mon 11 Nov 13:19
That’s my money doubled since December…and it’s only going to go in one direction over the next while
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Topic Originator: Jeffery
Date: Mon 11 Nov 14:29
I`m finally back even! I`m about 90% Doge but no logic behind that.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Mon 11 Nov 14:48
Long route to recovery!
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Mon 11 Nov 21:01
Jeffrey, got off that rubbish and get it on Bitcoin… countries are going to start buying strategic reserves of it, and given its a finite resource means it’s only going in direction
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Wed 13 Nov 05:23
If anyone needs convincing that crypto is insanely volatile and sometimes absolutely thrilling to follow, have a look at this...
Here is a rundown of my crypto account today:-
Bitcoin... $1,801 (+$433)
Doge.... $3,553 (+$2,296)
IOTA......$21 (+$3)
Crypto....$0 (-$0)
Basket....$413 (+$44)
TOTAL.....$5,788 (+$2,776)
The figures in brackets are the change in value since 18 October. Remember, my original investment was $1,400.
I cannot even begin to explain this phenomenal rise in Doge. So, I will leave it to one of the numerous "experts" on these matters (Finance Magnates):-
https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/why-dogecoin-price-is-surgingbreaking-newsandprice-analysisfornovember-2024/
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Wed 13 Nov 07:56
From Aunty (and where America goes others will follow)…
The price of the best-known cryptocurrency, Bitcoin, jumped more than 25% to new all-time records this week on the back of Trump`s win, briefly storming past $89,000.
The gains are a sign that investors are anticipating big changes for the sector, which faced a crackdown under the Biden administration from regulators warning it was rife with hucksters and fraudsters.
Trump once also called crypto a scam, but he changed his tune on the campaign trail this year, promising to make the US the “crypto capital of the planet”.
He said he would create a strategic bitcoin stockpile and sack Securities and Exchange Commission chair Gary Gensler, who had sparked anger by taking legal action against firms under existing financial laws.
Crypto firms insist their sector should be subject to new, tailor-made rules. That likely depends on Congress, where they could also get a friendlier hearing this year.
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Topic Originator: Bandy
Date: Wed 13 Nov 11:28
Elon Musk`s (who`s heavily invested in dogecoin) new Government Department - the Department of Government Efficiency will be known as DOGE.
That free publicity right there probably explains much of the rise.
The implications of his appointment to that role are frightening. he bought twitter for 44bn, gutted it, worsened the product, and turned into a platform where you could pay to make your voice louder than others.
Imagine that ethos in Government...I despair.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Wed 13 Nov 12:21
He made a few dollars out of Trump winning the election too.
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Tue 19 Nov 08:38
Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Thu 11 Jan 14:59
Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Thu 14 Dec 14:22
With Crypto you basically have two choices…..one buy and hold and hope that over a significant period of time you will see a good profit, bearing in mind that during a bear market the value of most Alt coins can drop as much as 90% !
And yes keep it in a hard wallet.
Or two you can trade which means keeping and eye on the market, and buying/selling on a daily/ weekly basis, which we can say is not for the faint hearted as the swings can be considerable especially during a bull run which by the way we are just starting now….if you are trading then better to set a profit/loss limit. I tried this a couple of years ago and did ok but it was starting to consume a lot of my spare time and hardly an hour went past without me checking the prices. You will most certainly miss a huge crash at some point and see a good chuck of your profit vanish in an instant ….’.that’s why it’s prudent to set up the profit/loss limit.
I am just hodling my coins just now as we are entering a bull run…..I think…..just now and with the bitcoin halving due early next year this usually signals a rise in value of BTC and indeed most Alt coins.
If anyone is thinking of dipping their toe in the water then now is as good a time as any……
As I said ……big gains today. It will continue…. With dips of course until bit coin halving in April then 🚀
Well it took a bit longer than I thought but serious profits being made now.
If you had invested a few grand when I posted the above in January in the big ones like Bitcoin, Etherium ( slow just now) Solana , Sui, you would have doubled your investment. A few Alt coins or memes , much , much more. Bull run will last another few months more, then…..bail …. before the inevitable crash…
Still time folks to double your money….
Post Edited (Tue 19 Nov 08:39)
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Tue 19 Nov 12:57
I do think it`s worth mentioning here that there will be people that are struggling financially reading this.
They may see this, get some money they can`t afford to lose and buy some cryptocurrency thinking it`ll be the answer to all their problems, and watch it become worthless overnight. Caution really needs to be shown here. If you are financially vulnerable you really need to think about if this is the investment for you and if you can afford to lose that money.
The cryptocurrency market is extremely volatile and very easily manipulated. You seen how easily Elon Musk was able to do that previously with Shibu. You see new coins all the time being hyped up as the investment you must get on before it sky rockets to the moon and then it just falls off the edge of a cliff, classic pump and dump schemes. Coins can rise and fall by double digit percentages in an hour.
This thread actually does remind me of some people I have known over the years that have been gamblers. They only talk about the ones that win, not the losses. That`s why the thread is inactive for months while it`s in the doledrums and then resurfaces every so often
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Wed 20 Nov 03:25
I entirely agree with you, red-star-par. It is important not to get carried away with this. As I and others here have pointed out on numerous occasions during the nearly four years this thread has been active, crypto is a volatile investment and not something to dip into without being conscious of the relatively high risk.
I`m afraid I have to disagree with your statement that we only talk of wins and not losses. On several occasions, I have referred to dips—some quite sharp—that I have experienced with my portfolio over these years. The most recent ones are my posts of May 15 and August 8, if you care to check back. And I am not alone. others have shared their negative experiences in the market.
Most of us are conscious that there will be people among us who are struggling financially. To this end, a couple of years ago, a small group of us on here put money into creating a Pars Loan Fund for fans who might be struggling to access small interest-free loans to get by. I know a few people used the fund, though I haven`t seen much activity lately. It is still there should anyone need it.
This thread will end soon, anyway. The fourth anniversary is February 11, and I will close it down then. I always viewed the whole thing as an experiment to see whether crypto was a worthwhile investment or a scam. Almost four years on, my $1,400 portfolio is valued at $6,158 today. Judge for yourself. That, and the fact that it has had so many posts and almost 100,000 views, suggests the experiment was worthwhile.
Post Edited (Wed 20 Nov 05:39)
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Wed 20 Nov 09:29
I enjoyed reading it and the subsequent thought and comments. Thank you Oz.
The scope was laid out as best can be done in a forum like this and the intent was clear that losses could and would be accepted in the nature of the experiment.
The questions laid out were simple and clear.
As with anything, you learn along the way and new questions arise and the discussion grows, but these questions were never expected to be answered in this experiment and the purpose of what you set out to show was achieved.
Will you provide a final summary of what you learned and what questions will stop with your experiment?
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Topic Originator: Rusty Shackleford
Date: Wed 20 Nov 16:07
Two good posts there from red star and Oz.
I totally forgot about that emergency fund and can`t find the WhatsApp group after changing phones. Oz - would you mind giving it a bump. I haven`t changed numbers so I should still be on it.
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