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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 13 May 08:11
It`s perhaps not surprising, but it`s definitely disappointing to see the Labour Government embracing Tory idealogy on immigration. Certainly, the numbers arriving according to government sources will have alarmed those who believe Britain is first and foremost for Brits, which is understandable but a bit myopic.
Every country needs a workforce prepared to carry out a variety of jobs. The problem we have here is that employers find it difficult, if not nigh on impossible, to recruit in low paid and temporary or seasonal jobs. The policy announced by Keir Starmer yesterday effectively restricts UK entry to university graduates. Anyone hoping to come here to work on farms, in care homes, and hospitality can forget it. Similarly, for those coming over for a few months to pick fruit or improve their English.
Some of us will remember Suella (or was it Cruella?) Braverman telling us the British public would "step up to the plate" and fill these jobs. Well, they clearly didn`t.
Is there any evidence to suggest that these jobs will be filled now under this new government?
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Luxembourg Par
Date: Tue 13 May 10:41
Quote:
GG Riva, Tue 13 May 08:11
Is there any evidence to suggest that these jobs will be filled now under this new government?
Next announcement is that the scrounging OAP’s and disabled people that are claiming benefits will be ‘encouraged’ to take these jobs to replace their winter allowance and disabled living allowance that is getting removed.
To paraphrase Kevin Bridges
- paralysed from the neck down? We don’t give a #### mate, there will be a farmer out there needing a scarecrow…
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 13 May 10:46
The opening two paragraphs of John Crace`s sketch in the Guardian this morning sums it up nicely -
`You know how it is. You get on the 87 at the Vauxhall depot and you suddenly realise you know no one on the bus. Time was when everyone in the queue would have been best mates. Off for pie, mash and jellied eels together before a knees-up down the Old Bull and Bush. Worse still, some people may not even be talking English. We didn’t beat the Hun in two world wars to hear German spoken on public transport.
Then there are all those Polish supermarkets. Who asked them to come over here, pay their taxes and business rates and set up on the high street? They don’t even have the grace to relabel their produce in English. And why can’t they sell something quintessentially British? Like Lurpak. What do you mean, that’s Danish? Butter was invented by the Brits.`
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Tue 13 May 10:58
Little Englander philosophy!🤬
If this had been implemented years ago then England wouldn`t have had a decent football team!
I no longer recognise the Labour Party🤔
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Tue 13 May 11:42
Met migration to the UK was 720 thousand last year. The year before a tad over 900 thousand. Unless within those numbers are the appropriate number of doctors, nurses, teachers, social workers, refuse workers, law enforcement, etc that the city the size of Glasgow/Liverpool would require then I don`t see how those numbers can be sustainable without the collapse of public services as we know them.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 13 May 12:03
Aren`t most of them needed to keep said public services operating? That`s the conundrum isn`t it?
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Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Tue 13 May 14:29
will rules apply to the millionaires coming to the EPL or only the boat people?
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Tue 13 May 14:30
When you look at who is doing the work, the cleaners at the train station, the porters in the hospital, the delivery drivers, the carers looking after the elderly relatives we can`t be bothered with, then new migrants to the country are essential. Thats without taking into consideration the highly skilled surgeons, doctors, nurses etc.
The unskilled people who claim that they are coming over here stealing our jobs don`t seem to realise that we need the migrants to do this as they are too lazy/ useless/ unmotivated to do the jobs themselves.
Ask yourself, when you see some of the people mooching about Dunfermline, would you want them going into your grannies house to wipe her erse, or would they be better locked after by the nice lady from Africa who actually does care?
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 13 May 17:48
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Tue 13 May 11:42
Net migration to the UK was 720 thousand last year. The year before a tad over 900 thousand. Unless within those numbers are the appropriate number of doctors, nurses, teachers, social workers, refuse workers, law enforcement, etc that the city the size of Glasgow/Liverpool would require then I don`t see how those numbers can be sustainable without the collapse of public services as we know them.
It pains me to point out that you are the only poster on this thread who appears to be defending the government`s stance. While I agree that something needs to be done to reduce immigration (assuming those figures are accurate), why not adopt a strategy that allows people in to fill vacancies where they exist, rather than limit entry to university graduates?
My father arrived in Scotland alone to work on a farm in 1958. He was planning to save enough money to buy a bigger house for his wife and 3 kids as the one we lived in was ridiculously small - a single room. Before he could come over, the farmer had to provide a guarantee of employment and accommodation. He worked as a dairyman from 3 am until 5 pm, with 30 mins for breakfast and an hour for lunch. So pleased was the farmer with his strong work ethic that he eventually convinced him to bring his family over, knowing full well that he would only stay on if he put down roots. And so the farmer carried out all the arrangements for us to emigrate to Scotland, where we have been educated and integrated, worked, paid taxes and contributed to the country`s economy.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Tue 13 May 18:32
Remove all non Brits from the country and see what happens……country wont last a day before things closing down and stopping. Then let them moan about it…..
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Tue 13 May 18:56
GG, I don`t think anything necessarily suggests I support the government stance but as you yourself admit something needs to be done. I got my figures from the ONS website. If I`ve misread their report then my apologies.
It`s a great story of how your father worked so hard to build a new life for himself and his family and if the government want to bring in laws and regulations that require employers to do all the things that the farmer did for your father then I could get right behind that. However look at the hard time Labour government got after requiring employers to may a little bit extra national insurance. Now imagine the uproar if they mandated employers to provide and arrange accommodation for their workers.
My point still stands though, in the 1950s, as best as I can find out, migration to the UK was well under 100 thousand per year. At that rate schools, GP surgeries, and housing could cope with the gradual increase over the years. Over 1.5 million in two years isn`t sustainable.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 13 May 19:08
I wasn`t having a pop at you at all, TOWK. I know you`re one of the good guys. 😁 You`re original post appeared to justify Starmer`s strategy on the grounds that immigrant numbers are unsustainable and something needs to be done. I`ve no issues with that but I disagree with the parameters he`s using. We need a mix of skilled and unskilled workers and unfortunately, it`s obvious we can`t rely on the native population for either, especially the latter.
I wasn`t disputing your immigration figures either, just not completely blindly trusting the information we`re fed by main stream media and our political leaders ever since the Covid shambles.... 🙄
Not your average Sunday League player.
Post Edited (Tue 13 May 19:09)
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Tue 13 May 19:15
The singularity doesn`t mean he`s wrong GG. I agree with the positioning that these levels are completely unsustainable.
I think that the main issues are
- the total position has been incredibly poorly communicated
- we`ve talked tough on immigration for years and delivered absolutely shockingly against the crap that`s been committed.
- stopping the boats and illegal immigration has focus folk on completely the wrong stuff.
- we haven`t invested in training our own citizens. And charge them a fortune if they want to train to their full potential.
- we have large parts of the UK population that have helped the UK build lots of positive stuff over decades, and the way this has been messaged doesn`t strongly enough value those strengths.
- The clown on newscast podcast asking Cooper questions was a complete embarrassment to journalism.
- Our infrastructure hasn`t kept up with the population increase.
- We have millions unable to get a job. And we have millions who have entered the country in recent years who have jobs.
I think this needs fundamental change, but the current government do not appear to have a robust plan. The last lot didn`t either. And Reform definitely isn`t the answer.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 13 May 19:30
Good post, Ipswich.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Tue 13 May 20:16
I wonder how many of the migrants in the UK were here as a result of legal migration rules pre Brexit where you could work and live where you wanted within the EU and the numbers claiming asylum in general.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Tue 13 May 20:25
Quite a large proportion I would imagine AAPS.
Students were a massive proportion too. I had a few MSc students come in for projects to support their degree. We`ve been happy to take money off them but they`ve benefited from staying here with their families following graduation even though where they don`t have a job. We`ve made a mess and need to be very careful about next steps in those circumstances.
Tightening things up going forward should be treated separately IMHO.
Unfortunately, like the gender topic, we appear to be trying to address very complex issues using binary logic, and it can`t work.
The journalists have a lot to answer for give some of their approaches.
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Topic Originator: Dandy Warhol
Date: Thu 15 May 07:47
I wonder how people that live next to a hotel that accepted the full occupancy money feel?
I don`t wanna go down like disco.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Thu 15 May 08:26
Five of my eight great grandparents came over from Ireland between the mid 1800s and early 1900s - there was significant opposition to that immigration as well.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Thu 15 May 10:42
Quote:
veteraneastender, Thu 15 May 08:26
Five of my eight great grandparents came over from Ireland between the mid 1800s and early 1900s - there was significant opposition to that immigration as well.
Maybe came over as Irish Navvies to do labouring jobs that the Brits didn`t want to do?
That sounds familiar 🤔
My wife`s gran came over from Belfast early 1900`s, currently we`re investigating for an Irish passport!
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Topic Originator: ipswichpar
Date: Thu 15 May 11:22
Perhaps if one looks at only part of the problem LA.
I`m not sure of the data, but I`m pretty sure we didn`t have so many millions out of work and/or on benefits back then.
But we did have more council housing that had quite high occupancy rates of number of people per property and kids starting working earlier in life.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Thu 15 May 11:45
"Maybe came over as Irish Navvies to do labouring jobs that the Brits didn`t want to do?
That sounds familiar 🤔
My wife`s gran came over from Belfast early 1900`s, currently we`re investigating for an Irish passport!"
One from a rural farming background so would know his way around horses - started off as an ostler then coachman. Later had the "Old Inn" in Dunfermline 1895-1900(ish) before settling in Alloa.
Another was a music teacher who came to Falkirk when her husband passed away at a relatively young age.
The other two were single and settled in Glasgow - must have met through the Irish community in the Gorbals area, where they married and later also settled here.
No history of Pat and Mick with a shovel and pick AFAIK !!!
I`ve started the Foreign Births Register process which allows me (eventually) to apply for a Republic of Ireland passport due to being a grandson on my paternal lineage. I spent quite an amount of researching the procedure to ensure I could tick all the boxes.
Your wife should have no problems - as long as you can provide the official original documentation required across her appropriate 3 generations.
Happy to offer advice if she gets tangled in the admin requirements.
Incidentally there is a Facebook site dedicated to the subject which can be very helpful.
Good luck to her.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Thu 15 May 14:06
Cheers VEE!👍
I'm sure if all our MP'S can get an Irish passport after drinking a pint of Guinness we'll be OK.☘️☘️☘️
Post Edited (Thu 15 May 14:08)
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Thu 15 May 14:19
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Thu 15 May 14:06
Cheers VEE!👍
I`m sure if all our MP`S can get an Irish passport after drinking a pint of Guinness we`ll be OK.☘️☘️☘️
🤣😂🤣
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 15 May 16:01
Quote:
LochgellyAlbert, Thu 15 May 10:42
Quote:
veteraneastender, Thu 15 May 08:26
Five of my eight great grandparents came over from Ireland between the mid 1800s and early 1900s - there was significant opposition to that immigration as well.
Maybe came over as Irish Navvies to do labouring jobs that the Brits didn`t want to do?
That sounds familiar 🤔
My wife`s gran came over from Belfast early 1900`s, currently we`re investigating for an Irish passport!
Yeah, but they integrated and followed British values. They definitely didn`t all stick together in the same areas of towns and cities as a result of the natives excluding them. And they definitely didn`t bring their own religious beliefs and values...
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Thu 15 May 16:28
Irish migrants in larger cities were definitely ghettoised due to prejudice against them (ie they stuck together in large groups)
Glasgow still has the shadow of that hanging over it to this day. And it's pretty much wholly predicated on them bringing their own religious beliefs.
Also, unemployment is extremely low right now. About as low as it has ever been (less than half what it was a century ago) and, if anything, there is a labour shortage rather than an unemployment one with many employers (in sectors like care and hospitality) complaining that they can`t find staff.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
Post Edited (Thu 15 May 16:31)
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Thu 15 May 16:36
Kilburn, an Irish ghetto in London!
Defo discrimination against them.🤔
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 15 May 18:53
There are already plenty of jobs as carers. We need a LOT of them. If you ask anyone receiving care of the family of someone receiving care they will tell you two things consistently:
1. You have to FIGHT to get a good care package
2. The care given will not be consistent (different carers all the time. some people get support, some people don`t etc.)
It`s a mess. There`s no money to pay carers decent money so they rely on goodwill. People who will accept crap pay and long hours (many of which are unpaid) are few and far between. People also forget just how skilled these roles are. These are NOT low skilled, easy roles. People are leaving the sector all the time, which is why there`s such a reliance on labour from overseas who are more willing to accept crap pay and conditions than Brits.
Hope none of the idiots supporting Labour (and Reform) ever need care support.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Thu 15 May 19:45
Kilburn, an Irish ghetto in London!
Defo discrimination against them.🤔
Indeed.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: P
Date: Thu 15 May 20:17
Quote:
Wotsit, Thu 15 May 16:28
Also, unemployment is extremely low right now. About as low as it has ever been (less than half what it was a century ago) and, if anything, there is a labour shortage rather than an unemployment one with many employers (in sectors like care and hospitality) complaining that they can`t find staff.
Are the figures comparable though?
Unemployment is at its highest for 4 years at 1.57m but that is a fraction of the 9.2 million people aged between 16 and 64 in the UK that are not in work nor looking for a job.
I doubt a century ago there was the present level of support for those unable to work (although tbf many would have died)
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Thu 15 May 20:20
The Irish arriving in the UK or USA had one huge advantage over other immigrants - the vast majority spoke English.
In America that prevented them being exploited to the same degree as Poles, Swedes and Germans etc.
It also helped with employment - for example, the largest single ethnic group in the US Army in the latter half of the 19th century were Irish volunteers.
For once Hollwood wasn`t far off historical accuracy with cavalrymen like Victor McLaglen alongside John Wayne.
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Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par
Date: Fri 16 May 19:25
The people he is trying to pander to don`t trust him and will never vote for him and the people that did vote for him are now calling him a Nazi.
He is now manically tweeting stuff less than a year ago he was calling "far right".
Our Prime Minister is a moron.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Fri 16 May 21:08
Mair faces than the toun clock!🤔
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