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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sat 21 Oct 14:16
Today`s lineup:
1 Deniz Mehmet
2 Aaron Comrie
12 Rhys Breen
6 Ewan Otoo
5 Chris Hamilton (c)
23 Michael O’Halloran
8 Joe Chalmers
16 Ben Summers
3 Josh Edwards
9 Craig Wighton
11 Lewis McCann
Subs:
Sharp
Little
Jakubiak
Fisher
Moffat
Allen
Fenton
Post Edited (Sat 21 Oct 15:19)
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Topic Originator: RossF
Date: Sat 21 Oct 14:30
I`d imagine Comrie will be in the right side of the centre and O`Halloran will be right wing back.
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Topic Originator: shellypar
Date: Sat 21 Oct 14:37
Quote:
RossF, Sat 21 Oct 14:30
I`d imagine Comrie will be in the right side of the centre and O`Halloran will be right wing back.
Id imagine it would be like this
GK:Mehmet
LB:Edwards
CB:Breen
CB:Otoo
RB:Comrie
CDM:Hamilton
LCM:Chalmers
RCM:Summers
LW/LM:Mcann
RW/RM:O`Halloran
ST:Wighton
COYP
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Sat 21 Oct 14:43
Only other match in our league today is
Thistle v Dundee United
If we win we could go fourth
Mon Paaars!
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: DBA
Date: Sat 21 Oct 14:43
Quote:
shellypar, Sat 21 Oct 14:37
Quote:
RossF, Sat 21 Oct 14:30
I`d imagine Comrie will be in the right side of the centre and O`Halloran will be right wing back.
Id imagine it would be like this
GK:Mehmet
LB:Edwards
CB:Breen
CB:Otoo
RB:Comrie
CDM:Hamilton
LCM:Chalmers
RCM:Summers
LW/LM:Mcann
RW/RM:O`Halloran
ST:Wighton
Would expect it the same as Partick:
GK: Mehmet
CB: Comrie
CB: Breen
CB: Otoo
RWB: O`Halloran
LWB: Edwards
CM: Hamilton
CM: Chalmers
AM: Summers
ST: Wighton
ST: McCann
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Topic Originator: parsfan
Date: Sat 21 Oct 14:50
Quote:
buffy, Sat 21 Oct 14:43
Only other match in our league today is
Thistle v Dundee United
If we win we could go fourth
Mon Paaars!
Fourth minimum. Third with Thistle losing and enough of a goal swing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference
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Topic Originator: neilholland999
Date: Sat 21 Oct 14:57
It wouldn`t surprise me if Patrick pick up at least a point against Utd.
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:15
Thistle 0-1 Dundee United
Goal Ayr
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:15
0-1 Ayr score. Logan Chalmers. Miles of open space in our defence...
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:16
Oz could ye update the score in the title please? Ta
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:18
Some serious defensive errors going on today.
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Topic Originator: wulliepar57
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:19
Cut open with basic football
we were all over the place and chalmers had lots of time and space
Bad goal to lose !
we have been very rusty at present , so hopefully we can settle down and get passing the ball and get more into the game
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Topic Originator: Paralytic77
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:19
Our defence is horrendous, all over the place
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Topic Originator: Lucho_8
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:20
We are all over the place.
Usual from us, massive chance at the start and donut wighton cannot even connect to then be blazed over. They get one chance and bang it in.
Never clinical enough.
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Topic Originator: Bannockburn Par
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:20
We look awful without Benny and Fisher. Can see a heavy defeat today.
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:22
Massive gap in the middle of the pitch then the centre halves are all over the place - and continue to do so. Zero organisation, we`ve managed to put Mehmet under unnecessary pressure with Queen`s Park style suicidal passing amongst the defenders and they are pressing but we`re persisting with it when it`s not working. This is much worse than Firhill.
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Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:24
Don`t think i have seen Comrie play this badly before, poor boy is having an absolute nightmare. Usually a steady eddie.
---------------------------------------------------------------
"People always talk about Ronaldinho and magic, but I didn't see him today. I saw Henrik Larsson; that's where the magic was."
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Topic Originator: shellypar
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:25
Quote:
TAFKA_Super_Petrie, Sat 21 Oct 15:24
Don`t think i have seen Comrie play this badly before, poor boy is having an absolute nightmare. Usually a steady eddie.
I disagree, i`d say comrie has been very poor for a while, recently been average at defending when it is usually his greatest strength, and going forward he offers little to nothing
COYP
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Topic Originator: wulliepar57
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:26
we are definately all over the place at present
We need to show a bit more fight and desire , we are letting Ayr dictate everything just now and we are just sitting off them
A bit worrying just now considering we aren`t at the races at the back or midfield , would help if we could pass the ball to our own players
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:29
Comrie just saved a certain goal
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Topic Originator: Paralytic77
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:29
Great tackle by comrie lol
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Topic Originator: Bannockburn Par
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:29
We need fisher on now, we are all over the place
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Topic Originator: Lucho_8
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:34
This is diabolical so far.
Looks like fisher about to come on.
Ayr fighting for every ball, working hard, closing down. Don’t think we’ll ever do that.
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Topic Originator: wulliepar57
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:39
we should really be 3 down , we are giving them chance after chance
Interesting double change , but we needed to do something or we could be well out of it by half time ! hopefully they will get a Gee up at half time
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:39
Can`t really argue with Hamilton and Chalmers going off but really could have taken about five or six of them off. We should be three or four down. I`m struggling to think of a worse performance in the McPake era, this is Grant/Hughes levels we`re seeing today. Maybe even worse.
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Topic Originator: Swisspar
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:39
Visitors are walking through the defence (?), almost at will. Comrie stopped a certain goal, Ayr player was picking his spot. Now a double substitution for the Pars.
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Topic Originator: Westies squint kicks
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:46
Chalmers and Hamilton double sub, same move as the 4-3 win at Airdrie last season
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Topic Originator: Lucho_8
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:49
Easiest 45 mins ayr will play in the league all season.
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Topic Originator: Rigger Al
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:49
It`s hard to watch today, could be 3 or 4 downwe haven`t had an attempt at a goal, can only get better
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Topic Originator: AlterPar
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:51
At firhill. Partick pretty poor though have had a couple half chances and 1 just wide before the break. Their right back is absolutely honkin, must be the theme of the day!
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Topic Originator: Parfect69
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:54
Ayr should be 4 up. Very poor
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:55
Woeful so far. So many players off it. Big second half required but got the feeling that the only thing stopping Ayr winning this game is their mindset. If they want to repeat their first half performance they will because we look incapable of stopping them.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:55
Quote:
Rigger Al, Sat 21 Oct 15:49
It`s hard to watch today, could be 3 or 4 downwe haven`t had an attempt at a goal, can only get better
Edwards should have buried one first 5 minutes!
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Topic Originator: wulliepar57
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:55
Well there isn`t much we can say about that 45 mins apart from saying we are lucky to go in only 1-0 down
Pretty sure Mcpake will have a few choice words to say to them
We have some seen bad performances but this at present is right up with the worst !! absolutely crap
Hopefully we get the kick up the backside we need, to actually come out in the 2nd half and be the team we know they are because we are looking like the visitors here just now
Cmon Ye Pars get the finger oot!!
We are at present down to 7th and Ayr have leapfrogged us to 6th
Post Edited (Sat 21 Oct 16:02)
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Topic Originator: RossF
Date: Sat 21 Oct 15:56
By far the worst we`ve played in a long time. Worse than Grant or Hughes era. God knows what`s going wrong today but the defence are being ripped apart at every opportunity and we`re lucky not to be 3/4 down. I have no idea how Breen was not subbed and Hamilton was? It`s clear we badly miss big Bene.
We should have went 1-0 up in the first 5 mins but since then it has been all Ayr. It`s been embarrassing so far but the good news is we`re still in the game and hopefully can sort ourselves out in the second half.
Post Edited (Sat 21 Oct 15:56)
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sat 21 Oct 16:02
HT. A dreadful 45. It`s as poor a performance as we have seen for yonks. There is no cohesion in defence, and we are playing the John Hughes out-from-the-back, pointless cross-field passes and back passes. The result is that we make little or no progress forward. By pressing very high, Ayr are taking advantage of our tactics and smothering us in our own half. We must address this.
No doubt, there will be some noise in the Pars changing room just now. We all are entitled to expect a HUGE improvement from the Pars players in the second half.
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Topic Originator: shellypar
Date: Sat 21 Oct 16:09
3-1 PARSS 🥳🥳🥳
COYP
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Sat 21 Oct 16:20
Thistle 0-3 Dundee United
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
Post Edited (Sat 21 Oct 16:22)
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Sat 21 Oct 16:25
Crowd 5073 at eep
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Sat 21 Oct 16:27
Jakubiak on for Wighton
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: pacifist
Date: Sat 21 Oct 16:29
come on boys
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Topic Originator: Lucho_8
Date: Sat 21 Oct 16:31
Clinical
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Topic Originator: wulliepar57
Date: Sat 21 Oct 16:32
Thay was an OMG moment , how did he miss that ?
Sums up our day
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Sat 21 Oct 16:44
Unlucky with the one off the post but for all the next chance was a superb save we need to he burying those chances. Think they are still the only shots we`ve had in the game after the Edwards chance? Ayr look fitter, faster, sharper and better in every department. Even this half, while we`ve been better than the opening 45, they`ve had 2 or 3 decent chances to extend their lead and we`ve have no complaints if they had done so.
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Sat 21 Oct 16:46
Partick Thistle 0-5 Dundee United
Thistle down to ten men
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Sat 21 Oct 16:57
That was embarrassing. Looked like a mid table League One side out there.
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Topic Originator: rikaka
Date: Sat 21 Oct 16:58
Poor result
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Topic Originator: wulliepar57
Date: Sat 21 Oct 16:58
We have got what we deserved today !
only 1 shot on target in 90 mins says it all
Play like this next week and we are in for a hammering !
The only good thing about this game for me was the final whistle !
This has to be as bad as I have seen the Pars play ,
I am very disappointed in today`s performance to say the least and I will leave it at that ,
On to next week
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Sat 21 Oct 16:59
Will have to up our game v the wee team next week.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: pacifist
Date: Sat 21 Oct 16:59
got to improve for next week
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Topic Originator: Andrew283
Date: Sat 21 Oct 17:05
Thank god the weather in Dundee was so bad I couldn`t make it down
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Topic Originator: RossF
Date: Sat 21 Oct 17:06
We play like that next week and it`ll be cricket scores. Zero positives to take away today. It`s very unlike us since McPake has been manager to be so poor two weeks in a row. We really need to pick it up and fast if we want to keep up with the playoffs.
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Topic Originator: OzPar
Date: Sat 21 Oct 17:08
That was a major disappointment. We should have won that on paper, but on the pitch, we could have been on the wrong end of a massacre. In truth, we were fortunate to keep it at 1-0. A good save from the Ayr keeper killed off a glaring opportunity in the second half to draw the game, but other than that, we huffed and puffed without much result.
We miss the leadership of Benedictus. We need him back ASAP.
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Topic Originator: Bannockburn Par
Date: Sat 21 Oct 17:19
Reality is we are a mid table team at best. Hopefully we improve once Benny and Matty return. Zero positives to take from the last two matches.
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Topic Originator: Athletico
Date: Sat 21 Oct 17:20
They looked fitter and stronger.
We had far too many awry passes, simple stuff made to look difficult, 2 sitters missed and and decision-making woeful. A tortuous 90mins.
Post Edited (Sat 21 Oct 17:23)
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Topic Originator: FRED1981
Date: Sat 21 Oct 17:21
Don’t understand the first half subs especially when Breen didn’t appear for the second half.If he was an injury doubt it’s strange Hamilton seems to be the scapegoat if not starting getting subbed.
F muller
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Topic Originator: Gazpar85
Date: Sat 21 Oct 17:23
I dont normally post on this forum but today was shocking ..think maybe manager got it wrong from the start . Players were getting ran over in all areas of the park, we had no fight, no passion and no energy. Very lucky not to be on the end of a hiding
Gary cairns
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Topic Originator: Athletico
Date: Sat 21 Oct 17:24
Breen was about 4 yards off the pace in the 1st half. His man lost him a couple of times, can only think that was the reason.
Post Edited (Sat 21 Oct 17:24)
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Topic Originator: bigdonnie
Date: Sat 21 Oct 17:33
lost ability to score if james doesnt get proven scorer in january we might be fighting relegation never mind mid table luckily deniz was back or could have been hammered
donald mcneil
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sat 21 Oct 17:37
What a waste of a winnable home game. Really disappointed tonight. So far off the pace at the back. Saw the 2 subs getting ready to come on and honestly anyone could`ve been hooked. Firhill mightv`e been down to the squad depth in part. Today was down to selection, formation and players.
Better off going back to basics next week. Another Grangemouth performance from last season would do me.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: shellypar
Date: Sat 21 Oct 17:37
Quote:
bigdonnie, Sat 21 Oct 17:33
lost ability to score if james doesnt get proven scorer in january we might be fighting relegation never mind mid table luckily deniz was back or could have been hammered
Relegation, behave you utter clown
COYP
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Topic Originator: gordi-b
Date: Sat 21 Oct 17:39
Pathetic is my description of todays performance, defending was atrocious midfield very poor and enough said about our strikers , well beaten all over the park by a fitter faster and skill wise superiour team , dreading next week if we play like that.
G.B
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Sat 21 Oct 17:42
"Relegation, behave you utter clown"
Which teams have you seen this season that are worse than us at the moment? Queen`s Park maybe? Morton? Fighting relegation could mean 7th or 8th. Hard to suggest we`re much better than that based on today.
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Topic Originator: parsfan97
Date: Sat 21 Oct 17:45
Breen was absolutely miles off it and was lucky he wasn’t in that double sub. Whole team looked miles off it but maybe due to lack of games. However, the absolute basics weren’t being done and tbh we are lucky it was only 1-0. Hardly a surprise most of the team are struggling when they got us relegated last time in this league
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Topic Originator: shellypar
Date: Sat 21 Oct 17:48
Quote:
kelty_par, Sat 21 Oct 17:42
"Relegation, behave you utter clown"
Which teams have you seen this season that are worse than us at the moment? Queen`s Park maybe? Morton? Fighting relegation could mean 7th or 8th. Hard to suggest we`re much better than that based on today.
Fine we have had clearly 2 terrible results, however u know how well we can play when we are on the ball, the only other team thay have a worse situation with player unavailablity is morton, we are better than 75% of this division on our day, we will not be near relegation, take ur head out the sand donkey, i have no idea why every man and his dug who are older than 30 seem to panic everytime we hit bad form, ridiculous
COYP
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Topic Originator: The moose
Date: Sat 21 Oct 17:53
We`re pihs poor. Really!
BCM
Post Edited (Sat 21 Oct 17:53)
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Topic Originator: buffy
Date: Sat 21 Oct 17:54
Posters are allowed opinions but there’s no need for your childish insults and constsnt age-bashing, Shellypar.
”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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Topic Originator: The Boss
Date: Sat 21 Oct 17:58
Relegation isn’t such a wild opinion. The signing policy we have is slightly worrying.
I like black and white (dreaming of black and white)
You like black and white
Run run away
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Topic Originator: king lad
Date: Sat 21 Oct 17:58
Terrible performance obviously, we are really missing Bene, Todd and KRH from the team and have players who aren`t match fit starting. The lack of a good finisher in front of goal is pretty clear (not that it`s easy to find one at this level).
The last two games have been the poorest under McPake, hopefully he can find a way to bring out the best in the players or we`ll be well beaten by the Rovers next weekend.
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Topic Originator: Parfect69
Date: Sat 21 Oct 18:03
It annoys me how we have no one up the pitch while defending corners. Ayr left three up whilst defending. Memhet caught the ball and had no out let. Big game next week, but that today was embarrassing
Post Edited (Sat 21 Oct 18:04)
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Topic Originator: AJ27
Date: Sat 21 Oct 18:04
Very poor performance - no problem with making the early changes but I was very surprised at both Hamilton and Chalmers going off - for me Summers was extremely poor all game - he was limping early on and I was sure Fisher was coming on for him.
Dreadful miss from Jakubiak - completely against the run of play but it would have got the crowd going and we may even have stolen the points.
Interesting to see the team next week - we really need a couple of wins.
Andy J
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Topic Originator: shellypar
Date: Sat 21 Oct 18:04
Quote:
buffy, Sat 21 Oct 17:54
Posters are allowed opinions but there’s no need for your childish insults and constsnt age-bashing, Shellypar.
constant*
COYP
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sat 21 Oct 18:08
First half was poor. We looked sluggish from the outset and the malaise seemed to affect everyone?
Credit to Lee Bullen. He done his homework and matched up and pressed us high first half. The game should have been over at half time
Second half, we were better and Ayr a little more subdued. Other than the chance Jakubiak had, we huffed and puffed to no avail.
Fisher made a difference when he came on.
Bad day at the office. Tough gig next week, made harder by coming off the back of two poor performances
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: Angus_W
Date: Sat 21 Oct 18:17
Bad day at the office, far too many players didn’t turn up. After last seasons solid back 4 the FH was a painful watch. Ayr were quick on the ball slick & decisive. They were turning our defence time after time and getting in behind. The only good thing about the FH was we were only 0-1 down.
SH improved we looked far more settled once Otoo went to CH. We created very little apart from the Jakubiak miss. We are going to have to improve and quickly if don’t want to end up at the wrong end of the table.
“.........it ain’t over till the Pars score!”
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Topic Originator: Row_ZZ
Date: Sat 21 Oct 18:17
Ooft. Only positive was it wasn’t raining. No atmosphere and dreadful display throughout. That’s the worst I’ve seen at EEP for quite some time. Possibly the worst since Grant. Very concerning couple of performances we have put in. Think McPake needs to get back to basics. Seems all too intricate and doing hard/silky things to get the ball in to the final third rather than the basics. Defending for the goal was criminal. They made a couple of silly errors in the first 10 minutes and that just set the tone for the first half. Lucky to walk away with only a 1-0 defeat. First time I have been a Pars fan heading in to a Derby expecting us to get beat.
"A smile might be good!"
"Nothing to smile about in my life"
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Topic Originator: JTH123
Date: Sat 21 Oct 18:26
I`d second the praise for Lee Bullen. I thought we were out thought in terms of formation and tactics. The players didn`t know how to handle Ayr and seemed to be all at sea.
Sore one for James and the coaches as it looked like one where that was the difference.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sat 21 Oct 18:35
We are 3 points off 3rd and a win v Rovers next week puts us 3 behind them and folk are talking of relegation in October 😂😂
Now, in saying that, today was awful. I think his biggest error was playing Breen - 2 months on the sidelines and right back in as the main CB - he was awful! We did look like a team that hadnt played a competitive game in 3 weeks as well to be fair.
Special mention goes to the ref once again though - 1 booking for time wasting was a disgrace tbh!
Post Edited (Sat 21 Oct 19:34)
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Topic Originator: shellypar
Date: Sat 21 Oct 18:37
Quote:
Dave_1885, Sat 21 Oct 18:35
We are 3 points off 3rd and a win v Rovers next week puts us 3 behind them with a game in hand and folk are talking of relegation in October 😂😂
Now.m, saying that, today was awful. I think his biggest error was playing Breen - 2 months on the sidelines and right back in as the main CB - he was awful! We did look like a team that hadnt played a competitive game in 3 weeks as well to be fair.
Special mention goes to the ref once again though - 1 booking for time wasting was a disgrace tbh!
SOME SENSE AT LAST
COYP
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Topic Originator: gordi-b
Date: Sat 21 Oct 18:44
Now that Mehmets back we have reverterted back to the playing out from the back tactic which slowed the game down for us , six to eight passes across the back and we are not even over half way gives the opposition time to regroup, we looked ponderous for the first half , slightly better 2nd half still don,t ccreate enough , must do better next week COYP
G.B
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sat 21 Oct 18:46
Mehmet to blame. Insightful......
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sat 21 Oct 18:56
Quote:
The Boss, Sat 21 Oct 17:58
Relegation isn’t such a wild opinion. The signing policy we have is slightly worrying.
In a 10 team league every team (apart from United) will look over their shoulder. The league is so tight.
No need for panic. It was a p*sh performance on the day. Just have to hope we see improvement next Saturday. Back to basics and stop the rot.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Sat 21 Oct 19:11
McCann and Mehmet is the only starter who gets close to pass marks today. Ottoo looked better when fisher came on and Allan showed some good signs when coming on.
Shocking performance with no idea what formation or positions we were in at times. We go again next week but can see it far enough if I`m honest.
c'mon the pars
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sat 21 Oct 19:15
Thought O’Halloran at least tried to make things happen. Summers and Moffat looked lost without Chalmers/Hamilton to guide them. FWIW I didn`t think subbing the centre of our midfield in one go was the right move. Surely there`s other ways to change formation/tighten up at the back without sacrificing both midfielders?
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: JTH123
Date: Sat 21 Oct 19:17
We deserved nothing from the game but the time wasting was among the worst I`ve seen. I`d guess the ball was in play 5-10 mins less than many games.
It was as if the ref felt that 1 yellow card was the most he could award for the collective efforts of the team.
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Topic Originator: HalbeathRoad
Date: Sat 21 Oct 19:19
We are absolutely murder . I don’t like the manager. Hipster beard , fancies himself . Nah. Punt
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sat 21 Oct 19:21
Quote:
HalbeathRoad, Sat 21 Oct 19:19
We are absolutely murder . I don’t like the manager. Hipster beard , fancies himself . Nah. Punt
🙈
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: Socks
Date: Sat 21 Oct 19:24
That first half really was spectacularly bad. I was able to forget the game at Firhill quickly as it was one where it all just seemed to go against us but today was a totally different level. We`ve had plenty bad stuff in recent years but how often have we been quite as bad as we were in the first half today? Maybe the game at Somerset under Peter Grant, Inverness away at the end of the season under Hughes and the 5-1 loss to the Rovers under Crawford?
The goal we lost was a total nonsense. Chris Hamilton had a weird position, seemingly deep in midfield but sometimes dropping back to be almost like another defender. He stepped up to win a header, but that left a gap. Nobody reacted to it and there was a huge hole that they then played straight through to score. A total shambles.
The style of play was the biggest concern. Straight back to the passy-passy pihs-pihs of Grant and Hughes and it seemed we were intent on being as indirect as possible until the last few minutes. We played well against Morton but even that day we weren`t great defensively and were unable to control the game without the ball. Last season, so many times I said that the style in the first half was annoying, being slow, passive and totally lacking in aggression. That`s what we got today, alongside a load of players who just struggled anyway. I just find it really frustrating because our recent success was built on being unspectacular and effective.
Every Pars manager who has tried to go much beyond this in recent times has ultimately failed. McPake is still well in credit after being good tactically last season but he was largely responsible for today`s mess due to how he sent his team out. Maybe we could just start to do the basics and get them right again? That would include being organised when the opposition has a shy in our half (how bad were we at this in the first half today?) and maybe we can think about being a bit more direct and aggressive again? Throughout McPake`s time, we`ve always looked much better when we`re a bit more direct hence why it`s so frustrating to watch that passy guff again. And when you have defenders obviously struggling, why put them under unnecessary pressure by making them try to play out like that? It just makes no sense at all, and we all saw the result of it in today`s first half.
I said after the 4-3 at Airdrie last year that I completely disagreed with the decision to take off Hamilton and Chalmers, and I completely disagreed today as well. He had to look at changes as we were getting pulled apart but I really thought Chalmers was doing OK and had manged to get us out of some tight spots. It also led to having Moffat and Summers on together, something that I just don`t think works for us.
Not many positive things today, but Lewis McCann did OK and I thought was our best player. Paul Allan also looked better than most when he came on for the second half. But collectively we have to be much better next week, both players and
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Topic Originator: DrumRoad
Date: Sat 21 Oct 19:24
Ayr United will be the worst team to take 3 points away from East End Park in the league this season
We could not have handed them this game on a bigger plate & they should have banged in another 3-4 goals but were not good enough to do that
Poor team performance today & have just heaped more pressure on themselves v the wee team next week
2022/23 League one Winners
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 21 Oct 19:35
After all the concern about the weather it turned out to be a perfect day for football both overhead and underfoot. The fans turned up - unfortunately the players didn`t. There`s no excuse for the sloppiness with which we started the game but I don`t think it helped that we hadn`t played a competitive match for three weeks.
The subs smacked of desperation. It did seem odd that Breen, just back from injury, started ahead of Fisher who was considered fit enough for the bench and came on after half an hour. Allan was tidy when he came on and may have played himself into the team for next week. It would be good if Bene was fit enough to play then too but it may be just too soon for him. Hopefully, when they are fit, KRH and Matty Todd can provide the kind of spark needed to turn round a game like this.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sat 21 Oct 19:39
Quote:
da_no_1, Sat 21 Oct 19:15
Thought O’Halloran at least tried to make things happen. Summers and Moffat looked lost without Chalmers/Hamilton to guide them. FWIW I didn`t think subbing the centre of our midfield in one go was the right move. Surely there`s other ways to change formation/tighten up at the back without sacrificing both midfielders?
Summers picked up a knock about 20 minutes in and never looked right from that moment onwards tbh. We were shocked he wasnt hooked at HT when Allan went down tunnel.
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Topic Originator: NiallDAFC
Date: Sat 21 Oct 19:43
Quote:
HalbeathRoad, Sat 21 Oct 19:19
We are absolutely murder . I don’t like the manager. Hipster beard , fancies himself . Nah. Punt
He could have a Mohawk and 4 inch nails and I wouldn’t give a flying duck. If he was passionate about doing the best in his job then he has my backing.
McPake has come in and completely transformed the mindset of this club from top to bottom. Won us a league at the 1st attempt over our rivals, purchased the loan players who have excellent potential and has us currently safe of relegation with an injury crisis stricken squad.
Honestly what more do folk expect?
Aye the day was absolutely murder but can’t say the boys weren’t trying, have never once said that under McPake. Nothing worked today, shape and selection was wrong so changes were at least made. Folk have short memories of the effort this squad have put in and the passion they’ve given us fans, we win and lose together.
McPakes the best manager we’ve had in years imo. A poor performance away at PT and a bad day today won’t crack this squad, but it seems it has some bed wetting fans. Talking about relegation in October when we’re closer to the playoffs to the prem ffs.
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Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Sat 21 Oct 19:51
Quote:
HalbeathRoad, Sat 21 Oct 19:19
We are absolutely murder . I don’t like the manager. Hipster beard , fancies himself . Nah. Punt
Do you sit up the back of the norrie by any chance. If not there is a group of guys who I`m sure you`d get along great with up there.
c'mon the pars
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Topic Originator: evo!
Date: Sat 21 Oct 19:56
What a crazy league..for as crap as we were we didn`t lose 5-0 at home like Patrick, who beat us...
Can only echo what everyone has said. First half was one of the worst performances I e seen from a pars team. Second was more even in terms of possession and probably getting into good areas, and while we had probably the best missed chance, Ayr made Mehmet work more than we did there keeper.
Says a lot that two the biggest rounds of applauses came when Comrie, otoo and I think fisher made great strong last ditch tackles when Ayr players were about to pull the trigger.
BEAST!
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Topic Originator: gordi-b
Date: Sat 21 Oct 19:59
At no time did i say Mehmet was to blame , his game is short passing which differs from the other keeper who varies his distribution, Mehemet saved us a few times today so at no time did i blame him
G.B
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 21 Oct 20:08
Per manager`s post-match interview - Breen felt ill at half-time and that was why he was subbed. Fisher hadn`t trained for 10 days and that`s why he didn`t start.
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Topic Originator: Paralex
Date: Sat 21 Oct 20:09
We looked as rusty as an old bag of nails. I thought the lack of confidence was a hangover from the Partick Thistle game and was totally unnecessary. Our opening gambit in the first half should have resulted in a goal but even so if we had kept the foot on the throttle, attacking the Norrie end with a bit of confidence, we could have had them at our mercy. Instead we retreated into a shell and started looking shaky at the back. Our football didn`t flow. Some of the players looked as if they had just met their team mates and never played together before. It would have been much better if we had played the week after the Partick Thistle game to get it out of our system.
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Topic Originator: eastendalloapar
Date: Sat 21 Oct 20:15
The sooner we get Bene back the better.
matt forsyth
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Topic Originator: DJAS
Date: Sat 21 Oct 20:21
Quote:
eastendalloapar, Sat 21 Oct 20:15
The sooner we get Bene back the better.
Yeah we miss him big time.
Predictor league winner 2012/2013
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sat 21 Oct 20:23
Quote:
wee eck, Sat 21 Oct 20:08
Per manager`s post-match interview - Breen felt ill at half-time and that was why he was subbed. Fisher hadn`t trained for 10 days and that`s why he didn`t start.
Should have just gone with 4 at the back then and not risked either…we are home to a team we should be beating, this constant thought of playing a back 3 will cost us at times, today being one of them…
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Topic Originator: Rigger Al
Date: Sat 21 Oct 20:28
Quote:
Dave_1885, Sat 21 Oct 20:23
Quote:
wee eck, Sat 21 Oct 20:08
Per manager`s post-match interview - Breen felt ill at half-time and that was why he was subbed. Fisher hadn`t trained for 10 days and that`s why he didn`t start.
Should have just gone with 4 at the back then and not risked either…we are home to a team we should be beating, this constant thought of playing a back 3 will cost us at times, today being one of them…
Why should we beating them !!! I`m confused on that one,Ayr showed in the whole game they are a good team,granted we were terrible, but they won .
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sat 21 Oct 20:59
Quote:
Rigger Al, Sat 21 Oct 20:28
Quote:
Dave_1885, Sat 21 Oct 20:23
Quote:
wee eck, Sat 21 Oct 20:08
Per manager`s post-match interview - Breen felt ill at half-time and that was why he was subbed. Fisher hadn`t trained for 10 days and that`s why he didn`t start.
Should have just gone with 4 at the back then and not risked either…we are home to a team we should be beating, this constant thought of playing a back 3 will cost us at times, today being one of them…
Why should we beating them !!! I`m confused on that one,Ayr showed in the whole game they are a good team,granted we were terrible, but they won .
At home, against a team who were below us in league and we have a better squad…..
They beat us 1-0 when we were awful and gifting them chances whilst creating little ourselves for whatever reason…they arent that good or wouldve been 3/4…
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Topic Originator: Parsfangaz
Date: Sat 21 Oct 21:15
Quote:
neilholland999, Sat 21 Oct 14:57
It wouldn`t surprise me if Patrick pick up at least a point against Utd.
hahaahah
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Topic Originator: Berkey
Date: Sat 21 Oct 21:20
We’ll do well to finish 6th on that display. Players believing their own hype so thought they just turn up and stroll it.
Nevermind, let’s do another contract extension this week and talk about how talented the younger players are while we drift down the league looking like a team who have never met each other. Confidence draining out the team and you feel we’re more likely to lose the next game than win it…..
Jakubiak couldn’t finish his dinner, we still need a finisher by the looks of it, it’s just a shame Dundee weren’t letting any leave the club and the net wasn’t cast any further to try and find one.
We just don’t score enough goals and we gift goals……not unlike the last time in this league, got to hope when bene and Todd come back it’s lifts the rest…
Post Edited (Sat 21 Oct 21:29)
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Topic Originator: Indiapar
Date: Sat 21 Oct 21:20
Poor performance but there we go. The important thing will be to learn from it and move on with confidence next week. We are not a bad side but sometimes it just doesn`t work. We have to just keep plugging away.
We have had a run of injuries missed a couple of games in 3-4 weeks we will be more or less back to a full squad. All teams will lose games in this league and I think it`s a mistake to write anyone off. I agree with some of the comments above. Dundee Utd will win this league and the other places are up for grabs. Consistency will be key and hopefully when we get everyone back we will kick on. There is still a long way to go and every club will have ups and downs.
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Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie
Date: Sat 21 Oct 21:21
That was just a day to forget from the start.
Easily the worst performance of the McPake era so far but hopefully we can get a positive reaction and don`t get in a rut as that`s two bad results in a row without scoring.
So many usually steady players were miles off it today. Credit to Ayr though, sat camped in most of time but had two good banks of four setup and defended well and dangerous on counter attack. They did their homework on set pieces too - knowing Mehmet never ever comes off his line - and put in a lot of good deliveries.
Also liked then leaving two up when defending corners, one on each touchline, something different.
---------------------------------------------------------------
"People always talk about Ronaldinho and magic, but I didn't see him today. I saw Henrik Larsson; that's where the magic was."
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Topic Originator: hudza
Date: Sat 21 Oct 21:29
Really poor all over the park.
Mehmet 5/6 times in first half no coming off his line, defence all over the place, midfield were lost and nothing offered up front
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Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower
Date: Sat 21 Oct 21:41
That was horrific – I expected a slow start given we hadn’t played for a while but it looked like some of the players had barely been introduced. (Although it seems that neither Breen nor Fisher were fully fit, so that might explain things a little).
The minute’s silence was well observed – well done Ayr fans.
Did we lose the toss? I never like playing that way round, although the low sun might have been a factor – Albinson seemed to be struggling to see at times later on.
Edwards has to score in the first 3 minutes, ditto Jakubiak later on. I’m not sure what was going on in the first half – Edwards seemed almost to playing as an advanced central midfielder at times; leaving Logan Chalmers (who impressed me) free on the right – Otoo had to cover him which left a hole in the middle.
Kudos to the manager for changing things so quickly – not sure it worked particularly, though. Although there was notionally cover for every position on the bench (including two keepers) we were still a little light – we couldn’t really go for it by throwing on an extra forward for the last 5 minutes for example (I see T Sutherland scored a couple for Bonnyrigg).
When Fisher came on it seemed that Otoo moved to a holding role, but then swapped with Breen when Allan came on for the second half. We were certainly better, but barely threatened. A case in point was when McCann lined up his McTominay effort late on, sent it to the back post where Comrie nodded it back across goal and there was no-one trying to get on the end of it. Summers and Moffat looked a little similar and were pretty unproductive (and had to be reminded to defend on a couple of occasions). Mehmet meanwhile made a number of good stops (despite someone in the main stand) referring to him as “Dracula”.
Not a great day. And my bridie was cold by the time I got it to my seat…
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Topic Originator: Jeffery
Date: Sat 21 Oct 21:41
Wasn`t there today but looking at the match stats to see 1 shot on target at home and then reading the comments on here is frankly grim.
Fair play to McPake saying in the post match that they gave the fans nothing to get behind and deserved to be booed off. Credit also for not being a broken record and blaming injuries.
A performance like the last two against Raith next week and fans will start to ask what has gone wrong.
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Topic Originator: gordi-b
Date: Sat 21 Oct 23:14
Think we need to up the tempo a bit , playing out from the back is ok but not at the ponderous pace we do it , we gave Ayr all the time in the world to regroup.
G.B
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Topic Originator: 87Par
Date: Sun 22 Oct 02:58
This is quite a shocking result. Never seen this coming at all. Especially at home. However. All these doom merchants amongst our support need to get a grip on reality. We produced an absolutely stunning performance at home against Morton. Nae Bene. Nae Matty. We tore them fur bottom paper.
So how comes Ben Summers didny play like he did ..etc etc. This is it chaps. Bullen did his wee eye spy on Dunfermline. We are newly promoted. When all is said and done...its not an excuse its a fact. Any of these championship teams coming to KDM Group East End are gonna be looking at us a scalp. We must take it to teams at home Morton esque.
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Topic Originator: nick_dafc1
Date: Sun 22 Oct 06:06
Quote:
87Par, Sun 22 Oct 02:58
This is quite a shocking result. Never seen this coming at all. Especially at home. However. All these doom merchants amongst our support need to get a grip on reality. We produced an absolutely stunning performance at home against Morton. Nae Bene. Nae Matty. We tore them fur bottom paper.
So how comes Ben Summers didny play like he did ..etc etc. This is it chaps. Bullen did his wee eye spy on Dunfermline. We are newly promoted. When all is said and done...its not an excuse its a fact. Any of these championship teams coming to KDM Group East End are gonna be looking at us a scalp. We must take it to teams at home Morton esque.
I think it says how poor Morton are compared to the other teams in the league.
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Topic Originator: Berkey
Date: Sun 22 Oct 07:58
We’re not a scalp in this league. As the league is showing we’re bang average and if we don’t get our finger out and start scoring some goals we’ll end up below average and it will be a long hard season.
Our momentum from last season has has gone and the mentality has changed. That to be expected as there’s a big difference in quality between the leagues.
As much as chalmers had a great season last year I just think he’s found lacking at this level, with him and Hamilton in the team just who is driving us up the park just now? A lot of pressure on matty todd when he comes back….
The youngsters are going to be inconsistent and have off days, the worry is a few more bad results in a row and everyone will be under pressue.
Back to being drenched in my own negativity….
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sun 22 Oct 08:43
Quote:
Berkey, Sun 22 Oct 07:58
We’re not a scalp in this league. As the league is showing we’re bang average and if we don’t get our finger out and start scoring some goals we’ll end up below average and it will be a long hard season.
Our momentum from last season has has gone and the mentality has changed. That to be expected as there’s a big difference in quality between the leagues.
As much as chalmers had a great season last year I just think he’s found lacking at this level, with him and Hamilton in the team just who is driving us up the park just now? A lot of pressure on matty todd when he comes back….
The youngsters are going to be inconsistent and have off days, the worry is a few more bad results in a row and everyone will be under pressue.
Are you this negative and downtrodden outside of supporting the Pars? 🤔
We haven’t had a competitive fixture in 3 weeks, its pretty obvious thats why we were off our game…not because players cant cut it at this level. If you think Matty Todds going to be the saviour in his first game back after so long out you will be wildly mistaken IMO.
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Topic Originator: Bucuresti Par
Date: Sun 22 Oct 09:58
Grim stuff. We really missed Bene and Fisher, at least second half defensively we were ok once Sam was on. I didn`t like the double sub either, when you are struggling in midfield you need more bodies in there, not less. Moffat and Summers is a luxury we will rarely be able to accommodate, Moffat offered nothing, Summers struggled but did come onto a game second half. I get the idea of moving Otoo into midfield but he needed at least 1 of Hamilton or Chalmers or Allan beside him. Allan did ok second half. Wighton wasn`t getting anything to work with, it would have been better sacrificing him and/or Summers. Jakubiak should have scored but at least held the ball up well, maybe we should have gone with him and McCann quicker and just played more direct, by the time we did Lewis was knackered.
I don`t think we can play much worse...so next week should be an improvement!
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Topic Originator: LEGEND85
Date: Sun 22 Oct 10:16
Two games in a row we have lost which can happen when you support a team like the Pars however it`s the way we lost both games that worries me.
We really need a big performance on Saturday otherwise it could be 3 defeats in a row
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Topic Originator: weemike
Date: Sun 22 Oct 10:53
The objective this year is survival, results like this are to be expected.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Sun 22 Oct 11:25
"We deserved nothing from the game but the time wasting was among the worst I`ve seen. I`d guess the ball was in play 5-10 mins less than many games.
It was as if the ref felt that 1 yellow card was the most he could award for the collective efforts of the team."
I had also come to the conclusion the referee wasn`t going to caution anybody yesterday - there were a couple or so earlier occasions when he would have been justified to do so.
Overall he was OK though - he kept a very close eye on Logan Chalmers after he had been clattered, and looked fired up for a retribution mission !!!
As for time wasting - we could still have been playing there until midnight without creating an equaliser.
If only Edwards hadn`t have blazed the early chance skywards - or the incredible miss off the post in the second half ?
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Topic Originator: RhinoPars
Date: Sun 22 Oct 11:49
While our first half was very poor, credit to Ayr for their high pressing and domination of midfield. One of the tallest sides I recall for a while. There was acres of space around their players in the lead up to the first goal and they should have been out of sight by half time with the number of chances they created. However, credit to O`Halloran (especially in the the first half) who really put in a shift and for me was also our man of the match (as he was for Raymie). Lewis McCann also worked very hard (including defensively) while Comrie had one goal-saving tackle. I thought we were much better in the second half (albeit coming off a low base). However for all of our possession, we still didn`t create too many chances and once again the lack of a cutting edge up front and inability to score has cost us. Paul Allan`s introduction and passing seemed to give us a bit more (although one square ball of his almost cost us). With Edwards early on, Otoo`s header and Jakubiak later on we had good opportunities to score but didn`t. I agree with many other posters regarding our slow attempts to build up from the back. While Harry Sharp has made a couple of mistakes, I have been really impressed with his distribution which has been excellent and has facilitated us getting the ball forward much quicker in other games whilst usually also allowing us to retain possession. I think we missed his more positive distribution today. Obviously will help to get key players like Bene, Todd and KRH back and others who have been out back to match fitness. If the second half had been as disappointing as the first I would be a lot more concerned, but with a bit of luck maybe would could have nicked a draw with our second half efforts. However credit is due to Ayr who worked hard, especially with their high press in the first half.
Post Edited (Sun 22 Oct 11:51)
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Topic Originator: parsfan97
Date: Sun 22 Oct 12:01
That’s 2 games in a row the opposition have high pressed us as we always play out from the back and it’s no wonder we are struggling. Far too easy to play against
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Topic Originator: The Boss
Date: Sun 22 Oct 12:29
Quote:
weemike, Sun 22 Oct 10:53
The objective this year is survival, results like this are to be expected.
This is what I don’t understand. If all we can expect from these players is survival, how are they going to push us on to promotion in the coming seasons. Signing players up for 3 seasons when they are average. Are we just hoping they turn into a team of league winners? It’s such a strange signing policy we have.
Livi won league 1 then went on to win the championship playoffs and haven’t been out the top flight since. They didn’t kid their fans on with this 8 year plan nonsense. The Germans have already overseen one relegation from the championship after all.
I like black and white (dreaming of black and white)
You like black and white
Run run away
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 22 Oct 12:35
I understand the criticism about playing out from the back but what`s the alternative - punting it up the park for McCann to win a header hoping a team-mate can latch on to it? We`ve played this way in the past and it`s been labelled `hoofball`. Bene`s strength is organising the defence but he`s also good at directing play from the back. Maybe it`s the personnel that`s the problem just now rather than the style of play.
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Topic Originator: Berkey
Date: Sun 22 Oct 12:50
Hit the nail on the head the boss.
We appear to have assembled a bottom half of the league squad and we’ll live or die by how much improvement we get out of the youngsters.
Back to being drenched in my own negativity….
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Topic Originator: weemike
Date: Sun 22 Oct 12:55
Quote:
The Boss, Sun 22 Oct 12:29
Quote:
weemike, Sun 22 Oct 10:53
The objective this year is survival, results like this are to be expected.
This is what I don’t understand. If all we can expect from these players is survival, how are they going to push us on to promotion in the coming seasons. Signing players up for 3 seasons when they are average. Are we just hoping they turn into a team of league winners? It’s such a strange signing policy we have.
Livi won league 1 then went on to win the championship playoffs and haven’t been out the top flight since. They didn’t kid their fans on with this 8 year plan nonsense. The Germans have already overseen one relegation from the championship after all.
Development,
Once matty todd and Bene are back we will be a different side.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 22 Oct 12:57
...and KRH.
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Sun 22 Oct 13:05
Quote:
Berkey, Sun 22 Oct 12:50
Hit the nail on the head the boss.
We appear to have assembled a bottom half of the league squad and we’ll live or die by how much improvement we get out of the youngsters.
If we had won yesterday we could’ve been 3rd…..nothing like bed wetting cause of a poor performance
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Topic Originator: wulliepar57
Date: Sun 22 Oct 13:09
I agree with you wee eck
It`s not the system and playing out from the back that is the problem
We are shoe horning people into positions that they are not used to which is disrupting not just our midfield but the back 4 /5
it just shows how a few injuries can beggar up the way we play ,
I am sure McPake and Co will address the problem about teams high pressing us
And on another note we do look disjointed without the leadership of Bene at the back to orchestrate things ! so let`s hope he will be back sooner rather than later
And the others who are on their way back !
We certainly will need to go up a few gears to get anything from the Raith game
A derby is the very game to bounce Back !!
Cmom Ye Pars
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Topic Originator: weemike
Date: Sun 22 Oct 13:14
Quote:
wee eck, Sun 22 Oct 12:57
...and KRH.
I`m not expecting performances from KRH as he`s still green. But both Matty and Bene have over 100 apps, and when they play, you can see they are two of the best players on the pitch.
KRH will drift in and out of games,
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Topic Originator: Socks
Date: Sun 22 Oct 13:46
The slow passing from the back was not the only problem, but was a large part of it. I`m quite stunned to see what seems to be a suggestion that the only alternative to slow short passing from the back is to constantly hoof it long. Surely it`s not a completely binary thing - there has to be some balance.
If passing out from the back often gets you somewhere, there`s justification to support playing that way. We saw Ardrie on the opening day who were very mixed in that regard - they gave the ball away in terrible positions but they also worked some very good positions from it, mainly because they looked to hit quickly and directly once they worked some space. We don`t do that. When we play that passy stuff in the first half it`s just slow passing for the sake of it and very rarely does anything come from it. Many times last season we played that way in the first half, it was almost always ineffective, before we often changed it in the second half to be a bit more direct. Every time we did this, we were always much, much better when more direct. It didn`t mean hoofing the ball aimlessly, but might mean playing some longer passes, playing a percentage ball up the line sometimes and using some aggression rather than being utterly passive.
I asked this question several times last season and nobody ever had an answer to it. I`ll try again because I genuinely do not understand it and do not see what the aim is. So, can anyone suggest what it is we`re trying to achieve when we play slow, short passing with no aggression? I really would like to know because there has been no evidence, last season or this season to date, to suggest that it is an effective strategy for us.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 22 Oct 14:15
It must have been at least partially successful last season as we won the league at a canter. I would say Mehmet has a tendency to overdo playing it short. We should be mixing it up more which doesn`t make it so easy for the opposition to anticipate what we`ll do.
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sun 22 Oct 14:25
Shocked to see the usual heads are gone after a defeat. Nowhere to be seen when we win.
Some laugh
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: Paralex
Date: Sun 22 Oct 14:32
The short passing game works best when there is intelligent movement from players off the ball. Arsenal, at their best, do this very effectively but when they do, they have an almost telepathic understanding of where their team mates will be. We had very little of that kind of understanding yesterday and very little movement off the ball and maybe that`s down to lack of games recently.
The passing game also has to be mixed with players carrying the ball forward in an attempt to turn the defence and open up spaces. Otoo attempted to do this in the second half. There were signs of a bit more cohesion as the second half progressed and Ayr became less dangerous.
But surely the very competent team that easily beat Queens Park and Morton haven`t suddenly lost all their ability and given a break or two and a resurgence in confidence a victory at Stark`s Park next week is not out of the question.
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Sun 22 Oct 16:35
It’s not playing out from the back, it feels more like the system we’re sticking with that isn’t working/players don’t seem sure what their role is in certain situations or goes to cover opposition wide attacks
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Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Sun 22 Oct 17:15
Quote:
wee eck, Sun 22 Oct 14:15
It must have been at least partially successful last season as we won the league at a canter. I would say Mehmet has a tendency to overdo playing it short. We should be mixing it up more which doesn`t make it so easy for the opposition to anticipate what we`ll do.
Its important to remember that we won the league with a squad that we were told on almost a daily basis were title contenders in the championship and with one of the biggest budgets. Mid-table is a good season for us this year.
c'mon the pars
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Topic Originator: Indiapar
Date: Sun 22 Oct 17:27
We seem to snatch at chances alot in front of goal. I agree with others in that we are too slow in building play from the back allowing defences to organise. We don`t pick up the pace or move the ball quickly enough in the final 3rd and we look a bit predictable. Or balls into the box haven`t been great either over the last few weeks. We are missing Bene`s organisation at the back for sure. He bolsters the defence giving the midfield a bit more freedom to go forward.
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sun 22 Oct 17:32
Quote:
Socks, Sun 22 Oct 13:46
The slow passing from the back was not the only problem, but was a large part of it. I`m quite stunned to see what seems to be a suggestion that the only alternative to slow short passing from the back is to constantly hoof it long. Surely it`s not a completely binary thing - there has to be some balance.
If passing out from the back often gets you somewhere, there`s justification to support playing that way. We saw Ardrie on the opening day who were very mixed in that regard - they gave the ball away in terrible positions but they also worked some very good positions from it, mainly because they looked to hit quickly and directly once they worked some space. We don`t do that. When we play that passy stuff in the first half it`s just slow passing for the sake of it and very rarely does anything come from it. Many times last season we played that way in the first half, it was almost always ineffective, before we often changed it in the second half to be a bit more direct. Every time we did this, we were always much, much better when more direct. It didn`t mean hoofing the ball aimlessly, but might mean playing some longer passes, playing a percentage ball up the line sometimes and using some aggression rather than being utterly passive.
I asked this question several times last season and nobody ever had an answer to it. I`ll try again because I genuinely do not understand it and do not see what the aim is. So, can anyone suggest what it is we`re trying to achieve when we play slow, short passing with no aggression? I really would like to know because there has been no evidence, last season or this season to date, to suggest that it is an effective strategy for us.
Teams that play out from the back are looking to advance it into midfield and then onto the final third. They are generally looking for an a opposition player in midfield to lose concentration and be too far from his man, allowing the pass to be played and then attempt to do the same higher up the park.
If the passing is too slow, however, then even if an opponent is sleeping, then there is more time to recover.
If the opposition are switched on and marking closely, then it’s much more difficult to advance the ball through the lines and we get that sideways passing which appears to be aimless, but it’s only because the vertical pass isn’t on
In those cases, then one option is to break the press by going long to the front men. That’s a riskier option as the ball will travel at least 50 yards and allow a defender more time to cut it out.
Yesterday, we had two problems. Ayr pressed our defenders very well and their midfield did likewise. Often there was no obvious ball into midfield.
Comrie, Breen and Otoo are not known for their long passing. Fisher was in the bench and our captain injured, so the long ball option was not there.
When Fisher came on we did see that ball played. Usually from right to left to seek out McCann
In summary, it can work but teams should be able to adapt in game, if not working.
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
Post Edited (Sun 22 Oct 17:34)
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Topic Originator: Socks
Date: Sun 22 Oct 18:23
That`s a decent attempt to answer, thank you.
However, I can`t agree that playing short passes at the back carries less risk when you have players who are obviously not comfortable with it and who risk giving the ball away in bad areas. It just puts you under pressure that can be avoided.
And if the opposition are pressing you all over the pitch, surely a quick, longer pass forward into space (remember leaving that space in behind is always the weakness of a pressing game) has a higher probability of working for you? As I said above, it doesn`t need to be a precise pass - a percentage ball up the line that forces the other team to defend it and which gives you a chance of winning a second ball or even just a shy high up the park, is a perfectly valid option.
My view is that you have to be a pretty good team, full of players comfortable on the ball in tight spaces, for a short passing game to be effective on a regular basis. At our level, I think it`ll always be difficult for that to happen. And I think the recent evidence supports my view, given how we often laughed last season that we didn`t start playing until 4pm, which so happened to be the time when we often abandoned the slow stuff.
Too much is made of trying to play football `the right way` and I think it`s a load of pretentious nonsense. There was only one team that was in any way good to watch yesterday, and it was the team that did the basics well, showed some aggression in their play and attacked direcly when they had the chance to do so.
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Sun 22 Oct 18:31
Quote:
Socks, Sun 22 Oct 18:23
That`s a decent attempt to answer, thank you.
However, I can`t agree that playing short passes at the back carries less risk when you have players who are obviously not comfortable with it and who risk giving the ball away in bad areas. It just puts you under pressure that can be avoided.
And if the opposition are pressing you all over the pitch, surely a quick, longer pass forward into space (remember leaving that space in behind is always the weakness of a pressing game) has a higher probability of working for you? As I said above, it doesn`t need to be a precise pass - a percentage ball up the line that forces the other team to defend it and which gives you a chance of winning a second ball or even just a shy high up the park, is a perfectly valid option.
My view is that you have to be a pretty good team, full of players comfortable on the ball in tight spaces, for a short passing game to be effective on a regular basis. At our level, I think it`ll always be difficult for that to happen. And I think the recent evidence supports my view, given how we often laughed last season that we didn`t start playing until 4pm, which so happened to be the time when we often abandoned the slow stuff.
Too much is made of trying to play football `the right way` and I think it`s a load of pretentious nonsense. There was only one team that was in any way good to watch yesterday, and it was the team that did the basics well, showed some aggression in their play and attacked direcly when they had the chance to do so.
Good post, Socks. Completely agree with that. We`re not quite at Man City`s level yet. 😀
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 22 Oct 18:58
Ayr got the better of us yesterday but let`s not get things out of perspective. They`re a point ahead of us having played a game more. It`s the nature of this league.
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Sun 22 Oct 19:01
Quote:
Socks, Sun 22 Oct 18:23
That`s a decent attempt to answer, thank you.
However, I can`t agree that playing short passes at the back carries less risk when you have players who are obviously not comfortable with it and who risk giving the ball away in bad areas. It just puts you under pressure that can be avoided.
And if the opposition are pressing you all over the pitch, surely a quick, longer pass forward into space (remember leaving that space in behind is always the weakness of a pressing game) has a higher probability of working for you? As I said above, it doesn`t need to be a precise pass - a percentage ball up the line that forces the other team to defend it and which gives you a chance of winning a second ball or even just a shy high up the park, is a perfectly valid option.
My view is that you have to be a pretty good team, full of players comfortable on the ball in tight spaces, for a short passing game to be effective on a regular basis. At our level, I think it`ll always be difficult for that to happen. And I think the recent evidence supports my view, given how we often laughed last season that we didn`t start playing until 4pm, which so happened to be the time when we often abandoned the slow stuff.
Too much is made of trying to play football `the right way` and I think it`s a load of pretentious nonsense. There was only one team that was in any way good to watch yesterday, and it was the team that did the basics well, showed some aggression in their play and attacked direcly when they had the chance to do so.
When I said less risk, I meant in terms of losing possession.
Also, our two best exponents of the long ball out of defence were not playing
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: Parfect69
Date: Sun 22 Oct 19:36
Saw John Potter leaving the main stand as I left with a wee smile on his face
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Topic Originator: Socks
Date: Sun 22 Oct 22:14
I don`t think the discussion is `out of perspective` at all. We were all a bit annoyed at our team having a complete shocker yesterday and it seems we`ve now moved on to having an interesting tactical discussion with yesterday`s game as a reference point. There`s nothing wrong with that, surely.
I absolutely take your point, Raymie, about Benedictus and Fisher being better than most at playing longer passes out from the back, but you seem to be implying that without them, the only sensible option is to play a short game. I don`t accept that at all, otherwise you would see every part-time side (with defenders not especially adept at playing accurate long passes) trying to play out from the back. Obviously they don`t do this because on balance it isn`t sensible given their ability level.
On the first level, football is about scoring more goals than the other team. On the second level, it`s a game of space and probability. Playing short-and-slow, what do you gain that swings probability of winning in your favour? And what do you lose that swings that probability against you? The way we play it, I see a lot of negatives and not much positive. Maybe you see it differently - are there any recent examples where slow passing has been effective for us?
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Mon 23 Oct 07:35
Quote:
Socks, Sun 22 Oct 22:14
On the first level, football is about scoring more goals than the other team. On the second level, it`s a game of space and probability. Playing short-and-slow, what do you gain that swings probability of winning in your favour? And what do you lose that swings that probability against you? The way we play it, I see a lot of negatives and not much positive. Maybe you see it differently - are there any recent examples where slow passing has been effective for us?
Playing devil`s advocate here, Socks, I`d suggest that if you have a team of players who can keep the ball almost indefinitely, like the current Man City side, or the Barca team managed by Guardiola, then the opposition are very unlikely to beat you and if your team is patient enough, it will eventually be able to create chances as their opponents tire from spending so much time chasing the ball....
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Mon 23 Oct 08:50
We may not be man City level, but our opponents aren’t exactly EPL level either
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Mon 23 Oct 11:57
"I absolutely take your point, Raymie, about Benedictus and Fisher being better than most at playing longer passes out from the back, but you seem to be implying that without them, the only sensible option is to play a short game. I don`t accept that at all, otherwise you would see every part-time side (with defenders not especially adept at playing accurate long passes) trying to play out from the back. Obviously they don`t do this because on balance it isn`t sensible given their ability level."
Hi Socks, I`m not implying that the only sensible option was to play a short game, rather that the option of knocking good, long balls was reduced on Saturday.
"Playing short-and-slow, what do you gain that swings probability of winning in your favour?"
I agree, playing short and slow, generally isn`t going to win you games. It`s fine if you are winning and perhaps looking to close a game out?
There is no "correct way" to play. The way that wins you a game, would be the correct way.
A successful team needs to be able to adapt, in game. That would give the best chance of a positive outcome.
At least on Saturday, we did try to affect a game that we were losing, by making changes. Had Jakubiak scored, we could well have gone on to take an unlikely 3 points?
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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Topic Originator: TAFKA_Super_Petrie
Date: Mon 23 Oct 12:34
I`m not his biggest fan but Chalmers invariably always acted as a pivot playing a bit deeper and always showed for the ball from the centre backs, even if he was having a rough time he didn`t hide. Once he was off and it was two more attacking midfielders in Summers and Moffat that option wasn`t there nearly as much.
The constant sideyways passing back and forth just inside our own half around 60 mins onwards was super frustrating, they looked like they were unsure where to go next.
---------------------------------------------------------------
"People always talk about Ronaldinho and magic, but I didn't see him today. I saw Henrik Larsson; that's where the magic was."
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Topic Originator: cammypar 1995
Date: Mon 23 Oct 16:21
I think it was a big call from mcpake to make the subs when he did with any player at that stage in danger of being hooked. Although taking off both Hamilton and Chalmers at the same time left our midfield really struggling and asking a lot of moffat to impact the game without one of them beside him.
c'mon the pars
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Mon 23 Oct 16:24
The problem with Chalmers, especially at this level, is that while it`s admirable that he is always available for the pass he isn`t quick enough in legs or thought to move it purposefully quickly enough. All too often it either goes backwards, back to where it came from or to an opponent. I`m not a huge fan of Allan either but when he came on he seemed to move the ball more quickly and he actually had a shot from distance (which we should have been doing more often with the sun in the keeper`s eyes).
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Topic Originator: eastendalloapar
Date: Mon 23 Oct 18:38
Apparently he apologised to both of them when he took them off!
matt forsyth
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Topic Originator: shellypar
Date: Tue 24 Oct 09:39
Quote:
Berkey, Sun 22 Oct 12:50
Hit the nail on the head the boss.
We appear to have assembled a bottom half of the league squad and we’ll live or die by how much improvement we get out of the youngsters.
Embarrasing yourself mate, get a grip of yourself, dont deserve to watch the pars
COYP
Post Edited (Tue 24 Oct 09:39)
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 24 Oct 13:22
Quote:
eastendalloapar, Mon 23 Oct 18:38
Apparently he apologised to both of them when he took them off!
Good management, imo. He apologised both privately and publicly to Joe and Hammy, meaning the good relationship he has with them is intact. He also added that they weren`t the worst players but felt he needed to change something because we were being outplayed.
By keeping quiet, he could have dented their confidence, which would have been low after losing at Firhill and getting a chasing during that first half on Saturday.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Tue 24 Oct 13:26
Quote:
GG Riva, Tue 24 Oct 13:22
Quote:
eastendalloapar, Mon 23 Oct 18:38
Apparently he apologised to both of them when he took them off!
Good management, imo. He apologised both privately and publicly to Joe and Hammy, meaning the good relationship he has with them is intact. He also added that they weren`t the worst players but felt he needed to change something because we were being outplayed.
By keeping quiet, he could have dented their confidence, which would have been low after losing at Firhill and getting a chasing during that first half on Saturday.
It was also an admission he didn’t do his homework on Ayr and picked the wrong tactics and lineup
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: GG Riva
Date: Tue 24 Oct 16:58
Quote:
AdamAntsParsStripe, Tue 24 Oct 13:26
Quote:
GG Riva, Tue 24 Oct 13:22
Quote:
eastendalloapar, Mon 23 Oct 18:38
Apparently he apologised to both of them when he took them off!
Good management, imo. He apologised both privately and publicly to Joe and Hammy, meaning the good relationship he has with them is intact. He also added that they weren`t the worst players but felt he needed to change something because we were being outplayed.
By keeping quiet, he could have dented their confidence, which would have been low after losing at Firhill and getting a chasing during that first half on Saturday.
It was also an admission he didn’t do his homework on Ayr and picked the wrong tactics and lineup
I`d be very surprised if McPake hadn`t done his homework on Ayr with meticulous care, AAPS. I know for a fact that Friday training sessions are largely taken up by discussing with his squad how their opponents are likely to set up and play and the tactics he wants the team to use to try and defeat them.
More likely Lee Bullen set Ayr up in an unexpected formation with different tactics, which surprised the Pars gaffer.
Not your average Sunday League player.
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Topic Originator: GJS93
Date: Tue 24 Oct 17:14
was one enforced change at right back due to injury but the same shape and players in the same positions as their previous game.
dont think there has been a single league game this season where the opposition have done something that would be unexpected.
Post Edited (Tue 24 Oct 20:58)
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Topic Originator: desparado
Date: Tue 24 Oct 18:33
We got away with the wrong line up/ tactics in the first half against part time teams last season.
We won’t this season.
We have to be on the ball from first whistle to last this season or we will invariably lose…
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Topic Originator: fcda
Date: Wed 25 Oct 17:34
I`m sure passing out from the back wasn`t designed to be slow, that was just the result of players being over-cautious and choosing easier options. Maybe because of how Ayr were defending or maybe lack of movement from our players. It`s all very nuanced.
Totally agree that if passing out is not working you should have other options and but it doesn`t have to be all or nothing - just a change of balance.
I guess the strategy generally is based on statistics - given that players are generally good on the ball these days, passing out must produce a higher chance of having secure possession at the half way line vs a long kick out. What those stats are like for dafc I don`t know, but I`d hope we`re looking at them.
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Topic Originator: Paralex
Date: Thu 26 Oct 00:03
There is also the fact that sometimes things just seem to click into place and other times not. Players are human, not robots and if a couple of members of the team are having a bad day, it can spread through the team. Confidence is everything and there`s nothing like sticking the ball in the net to enhance confidence. We can win games in this league, as we have shown, home and away.
Let`s get the victory on Saturday and take it from there. We are more than capable.
Post Edited (Thu 26 Oct 00:07)
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Topic Originator: Berkey
Date: Thu 26 Oct 10:50
Agree with the comments above, at this level chalmers just doesn’t have the pace or quickness of thought to move the ball forward when we’re being pressed. He was great last season but had all the time in the world on the ball.
We seem to lack any pace, without KRH there’s no obvious out ball or way to get in behind, wighton not really one to run the channels either so it’s all played in front of teams so much easier to defend against.
Will be interesting to see how we get on against rovers, first goals seems all important to us. We’ll need to take our chances as there’s no signs of nearly as many clean sheets this year
Back to being drenched in my own negativity….
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Topic Originator: neilholland999
Date: Thu 26 Oct 12:40
Berkey, if you watch Chalmers carefully, he will usually play an accurate ball forward/wide when there are options available. Unless you are someone like Messi, you are only as good as the team around you. I suspect his "underperformance" is probably more to do with the lack of runs or intelligent movement from his teammates.
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Topic Originator: parsmad68
Date: Thu 26 Oct 14:41
Quote:
neilholland999, Thu 26 Oct 12:40
Berkey, if you watch Chalmers carefully, he will usually play an accurate ball forward/wide when there are options available. Unless you are someone like Messi, you are only as good as the team around you. I suspect his "underperformance" is probably more to do with the lack of runs or intelligent movement from his teammates.
The die is already cast in some folks minds. I remember the same Chalmers able to work through a group of Dundee players in the Challenge Cup last year. The same guy who is apparently too slow.
Does it mean when the team has a bad game that some players should be canned. Odd. I thought it was a team game.
Looking forward to the weekend where the game will be on a slick surface.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 26 Oct 17:09
Even when Chalmers only plays for half an hour he get`s scapegoated!
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Topic Originator: Dave_1885
Date: Thu 26 Oct 19:32
Quote:
wee eck, Thu 26 Oct 17:09
Even when Chalmers only plays for half an hour he get`s scapegoated!
Its staggering really 😂 it was Joes fault we didnt create anything in the 2nd half!!!
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Topic Originator: wulliepar57
Date: Thu 26 Oct 20:00
Dave_1885 having a good chuckle at your post! It`s absolutely true
We got out of the Ayr game what we deserved zilch ! On the day we were rank rotten, no matter how it`s dissected or who is to blame in people`s minds , biggest problem we have is taking any chances we get , and if we don`t start creating and taking our chances it will be a long season
Let`s hope we turn up against Raith
Cmon Ye Pars
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Thu 26 Oct 20:15
I don`t think anyone is blaming Chalmers for the result on Saturday, and certainly nobody is being daft enough to suggest he was why we didn`t create anything in the second half (although of course our best chance did happen in the second 45 when he wasn`t playing... not that I`m suggesting that one caused the other). It is undeniable though that there have been several times this season when we`ve been slow to counter attack, certainly compared to last season. Part of this will be because Ritchie-Hosler isn`t there with his pace and Todd isn`t there with his driving runs but there have also been times when webe played it to Chalmers and the move has stalled. The obvious one was in the Raith game where he didn`t look to his left where McCann was in acres of space with a clear run on goal but he kept his head down, moved forward slowly then played a simple pass out to the right there Raith were well covered in defence. Very, very frustrating. He was better in League One, but hopefully that was more due to having Ritchie-Hosler and Todd as out balls, as that would mean that we might potentially see more of that coming soon.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Thu 26 Oct 20:31
It still seems odd to me that, in reviewing what went wrong in a game, the perceived weaknesses of a player who only played for half an hour should get highlighted. I notice it every week at games. If things aren`t going well someone will pick on their least favourite player regardless of how he`s playing in that particular game.
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Topic Originator: Parfect69
Date: Fri 27 Oct 08:10
Guy in front of me really doesn’t like Joe. I swear he blamed him for Stephens running out of pies. He is now starting to get it tight from those around him as his observations are so bizarre.
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Fri 27 Oct 16:22
Must be reading different things because again, I`ve not seen anyone scapegoat, blame, or denigrate Chalmers or suggest he was the only, main, or major reason we lost the game.
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Topic Originator: Berkey
Date: Fri 27 Oct 16:37
Joe wouldn’t be the first player to look great at a lower level in a team generally controlling games where the opposition mostly tend to sit in who then struggled at a higher level against teams who take the game to us.
I do agree for all his limitations we need more out balls. Without Todd and KRH we are very static and reliant on McCann to make something happen.
Can’t see us getting anything from the rovers game, but these games tend to be one where we pull a result out.
Back to being drenched in my own negativity….
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 27 Oct 16:49
Here are three references to Chalmers on this thread. As he was subbed after half an hour it`s hard to see their relevance to the team`s overall performance last week. So why raise them here?
`As much as chalmers had a great season last year I just think he’s found lacking at this level, with him and Hamilton in the team just who is driving us up the park just now? A lot of pressure on matty todd when he comes back….`
`The problem with Chalmers, especially at this level, is that while it`s admirable that he is always available for the pass he isn`t quick enough in legs or thought to move it purposefully quickly enough. All too often it either goes backwards, back to where it came from or to an opponent.`
`Agree with the comments above, at this level chalmers just doesn’t have the pace or quickness of thought to move the ball forward when we’re being pressed. He was great last season but had all the time in the world on the ball.`
To be fair quite a few posters sprang to his defence but were probably puzzled, like me, as to why he featured in this thread at all.
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Fri 27 Oct 19:27
TAFKA brought him up originally, talking about his role in the yran in general, and then the thread continued from there talking about his game in general. Not sure how that constitutes scapegoating or blaming him for losing. Other players who weren`t even playing have been mentioned in general terms on this thread - is that not allowed either?
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 27 Oct 20:46
Anything`s allowed provided it doesn`t break the Forum rules. Why do so many folk on here think you`re trying to shut them up just because you don`t agree with them?
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Topic Originator: kelty_par
Date: Sat 28 Oct 11:01
"Why raise them here" sounds like an instruction to not raise an issue on this particular thread. Thought it was fairly clear but there you go. Your milage may vary, etc.
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