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Topic Originator: auldpar
Date: Mon 13 Dec 09:51
Anyone bought a package of smoke/heat/Co alarms recently? Every package I`ve seen advertised - `Fireguard plus` `Anka` etc, all get crap reviews and complaints. Just looking for something reliable from a reputable company.
Post Edited (Mon 13 Dec 14:01)
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Mon 13 Dec 10:28
I got mine through a company called Safelincs at www.safelincs.co.uk
Really pleased with the units.
The brand I bought was FireAngel Pro.
They claim to be the brand recommended by 90% of fire and rescue services.
The models I got were
Smoke Alarms - ST-632
Heat Alarm - WHT-630
Wireless Gateway - WG-2
They are all wireless units but wired units are available if that's what you want.
Battery life is 10 years and batteries can't be changed. So either choice is pay to replace units every 10 years or get hard wired ones.
These units all comply with the new legislation. Also really easy to fit.
Post Edited (Mon 13 Dec 10:51)
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Mon 13 Dec 11:23
When you say battery, do they need to be electrically wired for power as well?
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Mon 13 Dec 11:24
I`m not certain but I`m pretty sure even hard wired ones have to replaced after 10 years.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Mon 13 Dec 12:13
Quote:
sadindiefreak, Mon 13 Dec 10:28
I got mine through a company called Safelincs at www.safelincs.co.uk
Really pleased with the units.
The brand I bought was FireAngel Pro.
They claim to be the brand recommended by 90% of fire and rescue services.
The models I got were
Smoke Alarms - ST-632
Heat Alarm - WHT-630
Wireless Gateway - WG-2
They are all wireless units but wired units are available if that`s what you want.
Battery life is 10 years and batteries can`t be changed. So either choice is pay to replace units every 10 years or get hard wired ones.
These units all comply with the new legislation. Also really easy to fit.
Rough idea of the cost overall for a house your size?
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Mon 13 Dec 12:57
Quote:
DBP, Mon 13 Dec 11:23
When you say battery, do they need to be electrically wired for power as well?
They don`t need to be wired for power. They have a lithium battery with 10 year life.
There is also a requirement to have a CO alarm but that doesn`t need to connect to the WiFi network. Since I already had that I didn`t need one but they are available from same place.
Post Edited (Mon 13 Dec 13:42)
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Mon 13 Dec 13:07
OK wasn`t sure if the battery ones without being electrically powered would satisfy the new regulations or not ?
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Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh
Date: Mon 13 Dec 13:21
Can I just point out that you need a CO (carbon monoxide) alarm, not a CO2 (carbon dioxide) alarm.
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Mon 13 Dec 13:41
Quote:
aaaaaaaaaargh, Mon 13 Dec 13:21
Can I just point out that you need a CO (carbon monoxide) alarm, not a CO2 (carbon dioxide) alarm.
Yeah sorry. Had a brain fart as well.
Edited my post to reflect this.
Post Edited (Mon 13 Dec 13:42)
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Topic Originator: auldpar
Date: Mon 13 Dec 14:01
Me too - sorry!
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Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh
Date: Mon 13 Dec 14:07
Thanks! I didn`t want anyone paying silly money for a pointless CO2 monitor instead of a lifesaving CO alarm. It would have been difficult to make that mistake a year ago but now everyone has jumped on the Covid bandwagon and are trying to flog CO2 monitors.
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Mon 13 Dec 15:41
We got a reputable local electrical engineer to install - he used units provided by this outfit.
https://www.eielectronics.com/
Better using a known professional who will not compromise on quality IMO.
10 year life span.
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Mon 13 Dec 15:44
^^^ oim CONSIDERABLY richa than yow^^^
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Mon 13 Dec 17:24
Its fixing plastic boxes to ceilings. Any semi-competent DIY-er can do this without needing to involve a "professional".
Suggesting that you`ll compromise anything by doing this yourself is a bit irresponsible "IMO"
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Mon 13 Dec 17:42
Quote:
da_no_1, Mon 13 Dec 17:24
Its fixing plastic boxes to ceilings. Any semi-competent DIY-er can do this without needing to involve a "professional".
Suggesting that you`ll compromise anything by doing this yourself is a bit irresponsible "IMO"
Is it not that they all have to be interconnected so some set up is required?
TBH, this is quite annoying. We already have a smoke alarm in the living room, the hall and upstairs landing that are all hard-wired and interconnected. So now I`m going to have to either run wires for a heat alarm and CO alarm or replace the whole lot with 10 year lithium ones.
We already have a standalone CO in the kitchen so it seems wasteful to have to swap the lot for what I perceive to be very little safety benefit.
I fully expect this to be pushed back again.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Mon 13 Dec 17:42
That`s unfair da .. we are getting on a bit and standing on steps is not a good idea .. I fell off steps last week and its bloody sore .. so yes I will get a guy in to do mine as well .. or you can come and do it if you want :)
Edit to add 10 year battery life will be more than enough for me :-))
Post Edited (Mon 13 Dec 17:46)
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Mon 13 Dec 17:46
"Its fixing plastic boxes to ceilings. Any semi-competent DIY-er can do this without needing to involve a "professional"."
Fixing plastic boxes to the ceilings was not the issue - knowing what the best kit to source was.
Good to know we have resident armchair experts on tap for future reference.
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Topic Originator: DBP
Date: Mon 13 Dec 18:00
So do the battery ones defo Meet the new regulations if say you wanted to sell your house?
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Topic Originator: JTH123
Date: Mon 13 Dec 18:02
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Mon 13 Dec 11:51
Important new legislation coming into force in February.
Your home insurance could be compromised if you don`t comply?
https://www.gov.scot/publications/fire-and-smoke-alarms-in-scottish-homes/
Really looking forward to the reduction in my home insurance that fitting all this kit will surely bring....
No, I thought not.
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Topic Originator: JTH123
Date: Mon 13 Dec 18:05
Quote:
DBP, Mon 13 Dec 18:00
So do the battery ones defo Meet the new regulations if say you wanted to sell your house?
Some do, some don`t. If you read the scotgov website info it`s pretty self explanatory. The safelincs website referred to above has a filter that will show you the ones that comply.
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Mon 13 Dec 18:10
Quote:
veteraneastender, Mon 13 Dec 17:46
"Its fixing plastic boxes to ceilings. Any semi-competent DIY-er can do this without needing to involve a "professional"."
Fixing plastic boxes to the ceilings was not the issue - knowing what the best kit to source was.
Good to know we have resident armchair experts on tap for future reference.
A reliable supplier is surely what you`re after, not necessarily a fitter.
And maybe stop looking down your nose at those that can do it themselves.
Merry Christmas btw!
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Mon 13 Dec 18:32
"And maybe stop looking down your nose at those that can do it themselves."
I could easily DIY if I knew what was required.
Maybe you could quit the puerile smartass responses likewise ?
Post Edited (Mon 13 Dec 18:44)
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Topic Originator: dpard
Date: Mon 13 Dec 18:39
Quote:
sadindiefreak, Mon 13 Dec 10:28
I got mine through a company called Safelincs at www.safelincs.co.uk
Really pleased with the units.
The brand I bought was FireAngel Pro.
They claim to be the brand recommended by 90% of fire and rescue services.
The models I got were
Smoke Alarms - ST-632
Heat Alarm - WHT-630
Wireless Gateway - WG-2
They are all wireless units but wired units are available if that`s what you want.
Battery life is 10 years and batteries can`t be changed. So either choice is pay to replace units every 10 years or get hard wired ones.
These units all comply with the new legislation. Also really easy to fit.
Did you mean the 623 smoke alarm?
Are they not supposed to be interlinked as per government page?
The flame still burns
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Mon 13 Dec 18:46
Quote:
veteraneastender, Mon 13 Dec 18:32
"And maybe stop looking down your nose at those that can do it themselves."
I could easily DIY if I knew what was required.
Maybe you could quit the puerile smartass response s likewise ?
I`m not trying to be a smartass. You suggest that if you hadn`t employed a professional you`d be risking compromising something, presumably your own safety and/or your house insurance. I think that the tone of your thread is scaremongering to be honest. Using your logic, no-one should buy and fit these themselves and we should all get a firm at God knows how much an hour to do something that a simple Google search or visit to a local electrical supplier or Screwfix can help you with.
The SGs looming change in regulations couldn`t have come at a worse time just after Christmas and with prices rising all over the place, yet you advocate hosing hard earned cash up the wall. I`m just offering a simple alternative solution for those of us who are a wee bit "fiscally challenged".
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
Post Edited (Mon 13 Dec 18:47)
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Mon 13 Dec 19:01
Maybe if you had offered your guidance in the normal manner we wouldn`t be having this prolonged debate.
Rather than unnecessary smartass opinions, which unfortunately are too common on .net.
We had an electrician in the house doing separate sub contracted work on a new kitchen appliance - so I asked for his advice on the new legislation - he offered to do it at a very reasonable price and went into the options.
At our age the 10 year battery option was more realistic than a wired setup.
No more lectures, please.
Post Edited (Mon 13 Dec 19:03)
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Mon 13 Dec 19:15
Quote:
veteraneastender, Mon 13 Dec 19:01
Maybe if you had offered your guidance in the normal manner we wouldn`t be having this prolonged debate.
Rather than unnecessary smartass opinions, which unfortunately are too common on .net.
We had an electrician in the house doing separate sub contracted work on a new kitchen appliance - so I asked for his advice on the new legislation - he offered to do it at a very reasonable price and went into the options.
At our age the 10 year battery option was more realistic than a wired setup.
No more lectures, please.
A tad rich (pardon the pun) coming from you. The majority of your posts are lecturing to the extreme. I'm comfortable with being a bit of a d1ck on here, it does no harm to admit your own failings.....or are you perfect?
Anyway maybe if you`d painted the full picture (or do you get a decorator in for that as well) and didn`t suggest anyone doing it themselves was gambling with their lives I wouldn`t have said anything.
Merry Christmas again btw. I'm away to phone a sparky as the light bulb in the halls just blown.....
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
Post Edited (Mon 13 Dec 19:18)
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Topic Originator: veteraneastender
Date: Mon 13 Dec 19:53
" I`m comfortable with being a bit of a d1ck on here"
Next business please.
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Mon 13 Dec 20:08
Quote:
dpard, Mon 13 Dec 18:39
Quote:
sadindiefreak, Mon 13 Dec 10:28
I got mine through a company called Safelincs at www.safelincs.co.uk
Really pleased with the units.
The brand I bought was FireAngel Pro.
They claim to be the brand recommended by 90% of fire and rescue services.
The models I got were
Smoke Alarms - ST-632
Heat Alarm - WHT-630
Wireless Gateway - WG-2
They are all wireless units but wired units are available if that`s what you want.
Battery life is 10 years and batteries can`t be changed. So either choice is pay to replace units every 10 years or get hard wired ones.
These units all comply with the new legislation. Also really easy to fit.
Did you mean the 623 smoke alarm?
Are they not supposed to be interlinked as per government page?
No definitely ST-632.
If anyone gets these I recommend setting up the network before attaching anything to the ceiling.
Also downloading the app and set up using that rather than the website.
App is much much easy.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Mon 13 Dec 21:00
I mentioned this earlier on and it`s possible I am wrong. We have interlinked hardwired ones in our house and have done for some years now. We still had to replace them a few months back however as they still have a ten year life. I think, not certain, that is because even the hardwired ones still require a back up battery inside in case of a power cut. I think, again not certain, that is because losiig main electricity might be something that happens regularly in the event if a fire.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: dpard
Date: Tue 14 Dec 13:25
Quote:
sadindiefreak, Mon 13 Dec 20:08
Quote:
dpard, Mon 13 Dec 18:39
Quote:
sadindiefreak, Mon 13 Dec 10:28
I got mine through a company called Safelincs at www.safelincs.co.uk
Really pleased with the units.
The brand I bought was FireAngel Pro.
They claim to be the brand recommended by 90% of fire and rescue services.
The models I got were
Smoke Alarms - ST-632
Heat Alarm - WHT-630
Wireless Gateway - WG-2
They are all wireless units but wired units are available if that`s what you want.
Battery life is 10 years and batteries can`t be changed. So either choice is pay to replace units every 10 years or get hard wired ones.
These units all comply with the new legislation. Also really easy to fit.
Did you mean the 623 smoke alarm?
Are they not supposed to be interlinked as per government page?
No definitely ST-632.
If anyone gets these I recommend setting up the network before attaching anything to the ceiling.
Also downloading the app and set up using that rather than the website.
App is much much easy.
Cheers for coming back to me.
I put ST-632 in the search bar but it said product not found, so thought I`d ask. 👍
The flame still burns
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Tue 14 Dec 13:57
Quote:
dpard, Tue 14 Dec 13:25
Quote:
sadindiefreak, Mon 13 Dec 20:08
Quote:
dpard, Mon 13 Dec 18:39
Quote:
sadindiefreak, Mon 13 Dec 10:28
I got mine through a company called Safelincs at www.safelincs.co.uk
Really pleased with the units.
The brand I bought was FireAngel Pro.
They claim to be the brand recommended by 90% of fire and rescue services.
The models I got were
Smoke Alarms - ST-632
Heat Alarm - WHT-630
Wireless Gateway - WG-2
They are all wireless units but wired units are available if that`s what you want.
Battery life is 10 years and batteries can`t be changed. So either choice is pay to replace units every 10 years or get hard wired ones.
These units all comply with the new legislation. Also really easy to fit.
Did you mean the 623 smoke alarm?
Are they not supposed to be interlinked as per government page?
No definitely ST-632.
If anyone gets these I recommend setting up the network before attaching anything to the ceiling.
Also downloading the app and set up using that rather than the website.
App is much much easy.
Cheers for coming back to me.
I put ST-632 in the search bar but it said product not found, so thought I`d ask. 👍
It also has a number FP2620W2-R
if you search for that you will find it.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Wed 15 Dec 20:41
Are smoke alarms that are interlinked through WiFi rather than RF regulation complaint? I`m thinking if the power goes then so does the WiFi connection.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: brian
Date: Wed 15 Dec 21:25
thanks for the info on these items.
much appreciated.
____________________
contact: email me
File Share: https://share2.co.uk
ParsTV: https://ParsTV.co.uk
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 15 Dec 21:49
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Wed 15 Dec 20:41
Are smoke alarms that are interlinked through WiFi rather than RF regulation complaint? I`m thinking if the power goes then so does the WiFi connection.
I`d assume it has to be RF.
I saw CO alarms in Aldi. Was almost tempted but then spotted they were only a 3 year battery. This whole thing is going to confuse the hell out of people. It should simply have been added to the building regs for new builds and to the council property standards.
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Topic Originator: JTH123
Date: Wed 15 Dec 22:21
B&Q are selling the FireAngel units mentioned above but they aren`t available to order. Looks like there`s a stock issue. I did notice though that they sell a 2 pack of the co monitors for £32. I need 2 as I`ve got a boiler and a fire.
The local merchants seem to be favouring Aico but the smoke and heat alarms are £60 each unless you know someone that can get a decent discount.
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Topic Originator: Indiapar
Date: Sun 26 Dec 19:59
The 10 year lithium battery type do the job. We have been using them for years on domestic properties. The wireless type are easy to link together. They tend to come with double sided tape to fix to thr ceiling
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Topic Originator: mikeod
Date: Mon 17 Jan 20:39
fcda - I`ve just ordered the same kit and wondered if your installation was as easy as you expected it to be in your earlier, December post.
I`d welcome any comments, Mike
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Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Tue 18 Jan 01:46
I’ve ordered a kit from Safelincs which includes some smoke alarms and heat alarms.
Do I also need a controller or gateway for these to work ?
Reading through this has put some doubts in my mind
It`s bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
Post Edited (Tue 18 Jan 01:46)
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Topic Originator: sadindiefreak
Date: Tue 18 Jan 05:33
Quote:
Raymie the Legend, Tue 18 Jan 01:46
I’ve ordered a kit from Safelincs which includes some smoke alarms and heat alarms.
Do I also need a controller or gateway for these to work ?
Reading through this has put some doubts in my mind
They can all link together without the gateway.
The gateway allows you to use the app to control them. This let`s you monitor the system wherever you are and you would also be notified of an alarm if you were not home.
It`s definitely not needed though but I like having the app.
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Topic Originator: auldpar
Date: Tue 18 Jan 07:36
I had 3 smoke alarms and a heat alarm delivered on Friday from Safelincs. I haven`t set them up yet but there are videos on their site to show you how.
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Topic Originator: dd23
Date: Tue 18 Jan 11:32
I’ve got a good contact based in Larbert for supply and or fitting them if anyone is interested.
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Tue 18 Jan 12:58
I’m still unclear whether this is advisory, mandatory, enforceable or not, and whether the insurance policy which has never has asked anything about any fire precautions whatsoever when I took it out and renewed for about the last 30 years will be a dud!
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Topic Originator: Playup_Pompey
Date: Tue 18 Jan 16:36
Mandatory from Scottish Govt, Would need to check with insurance provider if not having them makes any policy void if they are not present and a claim comes in related to house fire etc.
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Tue 18 Jan 17:48
This was the set I was going to get, 97 quid? Does that seem to be all I need?
https://www.safelincs.co.uk/hispec-rf-pro-range-sealed-battery-wireless-2-smoke-1-heat-alarm-kit/
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Topic Originator: JTH123
Date: Tue 18 Jan 18:26
I just renewed my house insurance and there were no questions asked about the new laws. I suspect they are happy to reap the benefits of the reduced risk of claims from those that comply and use it against those that don`t comply when they make a claim.
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Topic Originator: JTH123
Date: Tue 18 Jan 18:30
Quote:
dd23, Tue 18 Jan 11:32
I’ve got a good contact based in Larbert for supply and or fitting them if anyone is interested.
I`ve got my house to do and I volunteered to sort them out for an older relative and her elderly friend so I need 8 battery smoke alarms and 3 battery heat detectors. I`m looking for a decent quote for the Aicos or Fireangels supply only.
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Tue 18 Jan 21:12
Reply from my insurance company
"Thank you for getting in touch.
Our policies do not reference this interlinked alarm requirement directly, however, we do require you to follow the regulations and laws of the country you inhabit. You should always adhere to your local and country, terms and laws, as appropriate.
Your home insurance policy does also require you to take reasonable care to prevent any issues arising at your property and to mitigate any loss.
As always, your cover is subject to the terms and conditions outlined within your policy wording."
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: donj
Date: Tue 18 Jan 22:25
Red Star those are the ones I fitted along with the CO alarm.Easy to interlink and fixed to ceiling with stick ons.
Seems a bit pointless making us all fill our houses with alarms,that we already had,because of a fire in a block of flats in another country.
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Topic Originator: dover par
Date: Wed 19 Jan 10:21
Quote:
donj, Tue 18 Jan 22:25
Red Star those are the ones I fitted along with the CO alarm.Easy to interlink and fixed to ceiling with stick ons.
Seems a bit pointless making us all fill our houses with alarms,that we already had,because of a fire in a block of flats in another country.
You are referring to Grenfell (UK?)
The point is people are taking batteries out of detectors and not replacing them, the new type address this issue. The other major upgrade is having them linked is to ensure if one goes off they all do,ensuring people in the building have the best chance of hearing them.
An electrician will supply and fit for around £250.
If you are competent enough to know where to fit them,it’s easier to “pair” them together before fitting to ceilings. 😊
"Pressure is something you feel when you don't know what the hell you're doing."
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Topic Originator: donj
Date: Wed 19 Jan 10:33
The reason I called it a different country is that the fire happened in England and this law only applies to Scotland.Pretty simple really.
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Topic Originator: JTH123
Date: Wed 19 Jan 13:25
I`ve a fairly modern house with interlinked mains smoke alarms with battery backup. The downstairs hallway one is right outside the kitchen and is triggered during cooking on average once a month so its sensitive enough. We replace the batteries when needed and alarms are easily heard from every room.
As far as I can see I`m about to spend £200+ for no obvious benefit.
I can understand landlords having to make their houses and flats safe for their tenants and there`s clearly more risk in flats, terraces etc but that`s not my situation. And when I read that there will be no enforcement of the new law that doesn`t help.
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Wed 19 Jan 15:01
Insurance Co are not fussed, doesn’t affect my house/contents policy. This govt scheme is about safety not building protection - that would involve extinguishers and sprinklers surely?
Anyway I thought you were supposed to get out if there is a fire that poses a risk?
Can see this getting ditched tbh.
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Topic Originator: dd23
Date: Wed 19 Jan 17:29
I can recommend GetDetected based in Stenhousemuir. Guys a good friend of mine with 30 years experience in the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service. Contact details are;
Alan Faulds
07943533335
getdetected2022@gmail.com
Facebook; @getdetected2022
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Topic Originator: JTH123
Date: Wed 19 Jan 18:27
Parboiled. You are right. It`s about safety of people. But a byproduct of this will be reduced risk for insurance companies for those that comply and an excuse not to pay out claims for those that don`t.
The irony is that that kind of people that currently take the batteries out of their alarms will be the same ones that won`t buy these new ones because the law isn`t to be enforced.
Post Edited (Wed 19 Jan 19:34)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 19 Jan 18:40
Quote:
JTH123, Wed 19 Jan 13:25
I`ve a fairly modern house with interlinked mains smoke alarms with battery backup. The downstairs hallway one is right outside the kitchen and is triggered during cooking on average once a month so its sensitive enough. We replace the batteries when needed and alarms are easily heard from every room.
As far as I can see I`m about to spend £200+ for no obvious benefit.
I can understand landlords having to make their houses and flats safe for their tenants and there`s clearly more risk in flats, terraces etc but that`s not my situation. And when I read that there will be no enforcement of the new law that doesn`t help.
We might have the same style of house. We have two interlinked smoke alarms. Mains with battery backup. One is in the hall downstairs outside the sitting room and kitchen. Other is on the landing upstairs. Under this new law I`ll need to ditch these and add completely new ones in the kitchen and living room alongside a new heat alarm and CO alarm. What a farce. We already have a long life CO alarm but that`ll also be binned.
This should only apply to HMO and brand new properties.
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Fri 21 Jan 09:22
This “law” will not be enforced on current homeowners. Apparently.
The Scot Gov have niftily passed this cold potato to local authorities for urgent non action. Expect to see vacancy notices for non enforcement officers soon.
You couldnae make it up …
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 21 Jan 13:15
What do you mean it isn`t being enforced? As in the government isn`t sending someone around to every house to make sure it is being implemented? Well thank goodness for that.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 21 Jan 15:59
I`d doubt insurance companies give two hoots about legislation only affecting Scotland. It would be too much effort to update their procedures for a start.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 21 Jan 16:17
Would insurance companies use non compliance of legal regulations to avoid a multi thousand pound payout?
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Fri 21 Jan 16:18
I can`t remember ever being asked about fire/smoke alarms in any application for buildings insurance over the years.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 21 Jan 16:59
Has it ever been a legal requirement to have such devices installed?
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: donj
Date: Fri 21 Jan 19:36
Basically all she has done is give insurance companies a get out clause to get out of paying.Most people already had alarms that were perfectly sufficient for their safety.Slight difference in a house to a block of flats so I do not understand why.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 21 Jan 19:54
The Scottish Government making a rubbish decision? Surely not.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 21 Jan 19:55
Basically if you rent your home this won`t matter to you because the burden will fall on your landlord. Most housing associations and councils have been fitting these type of alarms for decades now in some places. Private landlords will have their profits impacted ever so slightly. For those fortunate enough to be home owners this will cost them a hundred pound or so if it`s a small house and a little bit more if they own a large home.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sat 22 Jan 10:50
Is that all? Just a couple of hundred? That`s fine then.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 22 Jan 11:14
Quote:
da_no_1, Sat 22 Jan 10:50
Is that all? Just a couple of hundred? That`s fine then.
Can you really put a price on the life of you and your family? [tongue firmly in cheek]
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sat 22 Jan 11:43
Not just that Jake, though that is obviously the most important thing, a couple of hundred pounds might be what makes the difference in stopping a fire which destroys an asset that costs well over one hundred thousand pounds.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 22 Jan 11:54
But this is a dilution of current regs. My understanding is you should have a mains operated smoke alarm with battery backup in your main circulation spaces. This new rule says add more alarms but you can have inferior battery ones instead.
Does this mean builders can now chuck in the cheapest and nastiest 10 year battery alarms into houses and all be good?
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sat 22 Jan 12:35
Even mains powered ones need a battery back up and it`s my belief (though only going by my own experience) that all smoke alarms are only good for ten years anyway and then should be replaced.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 22 Jan 13:08
That`s right, they should, but how many do? How many will simple disconnect or remove the battery if it goes off for burnt toast or starts to beep? I`ve already heard one guy I work with say he disconnected his heat alarm as it went off every time he opened the oven door!
Rather than wasting time on forcing people to get alarms, they should have continued to do campaigns on TV, radio and at school around fire but pushed through revised building regs so that all new homes have proper mains alarms when built.
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Topic Originator: JTH123
Date: Sat 22 Jan 13:45
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Sat 22 Jan 11:43
Not just that Jake, though that is obviously the most important thing, a couple of hundred pounds might be what makes the difference in stopping a fire which destroys an asset that costs well over one hundred thousand pounds.
But not any more than the perfectly functional ones in my house that have to be taken out and binned unfortunately.
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sat 22 Jan 13:57
Quote:
jake89, Sat 22 Jan 11:14
Quote:
da_no_1, Sat 22 Jan 10:50
Is that all? Just a couple of hundred? That`s fine then.
Can you really put a price on the life of you and your family? [tongue firmly in cheek]
That comment assumes I have no properly functioning kit in my house just now. It`s completely over the top for a normal 2 or 3 bedroom house.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: EastEndBoy
Date: Sat 22 Jan 15:17
Quote:
da_no_1, Sat 22 Jan 13:57
Quote:
jake89, Sat 22 Jan 11:14
Quote:
da_no_1, Sat 22 Jan 10:50
Is that all? Just a couple of hundred? That`s fine then.
Can you really put a price on the life of you and your family? [tongue firmly in cheek]
That comment assumes I have no properly functioning kit in my house just now. It`s completely over the top for a normal 2 or 3 bedroom house.
This.
...ken?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 22 Jan 17:12
I was being sarcastic. That`s clearly the tone being taken about all of this. I`m going to have three alarms within 2 feet of each other. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
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Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle
Date: Sat 22 Jan 23:16
Wonder if there is any science to this? That said, in my very average 3 bedroom house, I’m not sure I’d hear the alarm going off in the kitchen if I was sound asleep. I would, however, hear the one in the landing instantly. I disagree with forcing people, but if you can afford them, what price the extra safety for your family?
This is my signature
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Topic Originator: da_no_1
Date: Sat 22 Jan 23:22
Do the majority of people actually think the average household has near £200 spare? Folk are struggling to feed their families and heat their homes.
"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle
Date: Sat 22 Jan 23:27
Quote:
da_no_1, Sat 22 Jan 23:22
Do the majority of people actually think the average household has near £200 spare? Folk are struggling to feed their families and heat their homes.
It’s completely wrong for the Government to force this on people. They need to do means-tested free devices and fitting if they want to go down that path. And you’d think with that purchasing power they would get a nice deal!!
This is my signature
Post Edited (Sat 22 Jan 23:27)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sat 22 Jan 23:35
Quote:
Milos Drizzle, Sat 22 Jan 23:16
Wonder if there is any science to this? That said, in my very average 3 bedroom house, I’m not sure I’d hear the alarm going off in the kitchen if I was sound asleep. I would, however, hear the one in the landing instantly. I disagree with forcing people, but if you can afford them, what price the extra safety for your family?
Any house built in the last 20 or so years has mains powered interlinked smoke alarms already. This new rule will likely end up in them being ripped out and replaced by battery ones. It`s stupid and a waste of money.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 23 Jan 00:23
Milo, there is already some means testing in place which will see some elderly and disabled receive financial assistance to have the alarms installed. On certain instances the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service will also fit the alarms.
https://www.firescotland.gov.uk/your-safety/at-home/alarms/
Remember it is also now a legal requirement to have a carbon monoxide detector near your boiler as well now.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle
Date: Sun 23 Jan 00:29
Quote:
jake89, Sat 22 Jan 23:35
Quote:
Milos Drizzle, Sat 22 Jan 23:16
Wonder if there is any science to this? That said, in my very average 3 bedroom house, I’m not sure I’d hear the alarm going off in the kitchen if I was sound asleep. I would, however, hear the one in the landing instantly. I disagree with forcing people, but if you can afford them, what price the extra safety for your family?
Any house built in the last 20 or so years has mains powered interlinked smoke alarms already. This new rule will likely end up in them being ripped out and replaced by battery ones. It`s stupid and a waste of money.
My house is a new build, a few years old. I think it has the mains inter-linked ones, not sure if they have batteries also. It didn’t even occur to me that they might not meet these new rules. But I shall not be checking, as I’m sure they provide sufficient safety.
This is my signature
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Topic Originator: Milos Drizzle
Date: Sun 23 Jan 00:30
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Sun 23 Jan 00:23
Milo, there is already some means testing in place which will see some elderly and disabled receive financial assistance to have the alarms installed. On certain instances the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service will also fit the alarms.
https://www.firescotland.gov.uk/your-safety/at-home/alarms/
Remember it is also now a legal requirement to have a carbon monoxide detector near your boiler as well now.
That’s good to know, at least some will benefit. However, a great many more people will genuinely struggle with this.
This is my signature
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 23 Jan 00:38
Mind Milo it is only home owners that will be shelling out. I mean I`m one and while the hundred odd quid I had to spend could have been spent on something else being that it`s a once in a ten year outlay I didn`t overly mind.
Jake depending on the make and model, and this might be the case with all makes, the hardwired alarms can also link with purely battery powered alarms as well. I know that`s the case with Fire Angel ones at least. Also worth remembering that every ten years even the two mains powered ones in your home would have to be replaced.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Sun 23 Jan 06:53
Thanks TOWK. Mine are both Fire Angel, replaced in 2019. I don`t think they can link with others though.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 23 Jan 10:24
If it`s the Fireangel Pro range then you`ll be fine for mix and matching.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: dafc01
Date: Sun 23 Jan 13:32
.
Post Edited (Sun 23 Jan 14:51)
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 23 Jan 14:19
I think, not certain, that the replaceable batteries are fine for main wired alarms as the battery is only the back up source in the event of a power cut. That`s what`s happening with the Kidde ones.
If it is a battery only alarms then it has to be a sealed battery unit.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Sun 23 Jan 14:23
That`s my understanding too and they also comply with BS EN 14604: 2005 which is the standard referenced in the guidance docs.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Sun 23 Jan 14:25
Yeah I`ve just checked that as well LPF. They do meet that standard so they are absolutely fine.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Sun 23 Jan 14:32
In terms of cost for an electrician, mine was £37.50 for a standard install but because we needed 6 alarms, a heat detector and a carbon monoxide detector we were charged a job and a half at £56.25 but if you`re saving on the mains powered alarms it might well work out cheaper overall.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Sun 23 Jan 14:33
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Sun 23 Jan 14:25
Yeah I`ve just checked that as well LPF. They do meet that standard so they are absolutely fine.
Also in an article about the requirements in Scotland so you would assume Which only referenced alarms that could be used.
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Topic Originator: dafc01
Date: Sun 23 Jan 14:45
Misread on my behalf. I have Read through article again. Apologies for misunderstanding.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Sun 23 Jan 14:59
No worries mate - was mainly hoping it would help folk save money.
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Sun 23 Jan 20:14
Just got 3 smoke detectors and 1 heat detector, wireless for £104.89 delivered.
expresselectrical.net
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Topic Originator: mikeod
Date: Wed 26 Jan 23:19
My Safelincs order was supposed to be filled on February 1st. Today I received an email about supply problems from the manufacturer and possible delay to my order.
Safelincs are expecting deliveries next week and February 14 and will fulfil orders in date order, as supplies allow.
Supply chain disrupted due to unprecedented high demand to meet the regulations in Scotland.
My advice is "shop around"!
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Topic Originator: dover par
Date: Thu 27 Jan 14:11
There is a huge demand for these alarms as you can imagine and there is shortages from suppliers so don’t leave it too late!
For clarity:-
When the new regulations come into force, interlinked smoke and heat alarms will need to be mains powered OR come with a sealed tamper-proof long life (up to 10 years) battery.
As the property owner you are responsible to ensure fire alarms meet current regs. IF your home went on fire your insurance may wriggle out of any claim due to non compliance AND if somebody died you could be held responsible!
"Pressure is something you feel when you don't know what the hell you're doing."
Post Edited (Thu 27 Jan 14:14)
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Topic Originator: penapar
Date: Thu 27 Jan 15:19
I have put 2 orders on Ebay for sg approved smoke/heat alarms with Tesla Supplies.
1st order received very quickly within 3 days, additional smoke alarm ordered very late last night delivery due Tuesday.
I fully expect it on Monday
penapar
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 27 Jan 18:07
Quote:
dover par, Thu 27 Jan 14:11
There is a huge demand for these alarms as you can imagine and there is shortages from suppliers so don’t leave it too late!
For clarity:-
When the new regulations come into force, interlinked smoke and heat alarms will need to be mains powered OR come with a sealed tamper-proof long life (up to 10 years) battery.
As the property owner you are responsible to ensure fire alarms meet current regs. IF your home went on fire your insurance may wriggle out of any claim due to non compliance AND if somebody died you could be held responsible!
Depends on your insurer. Worth giving them a call. Most (all?) insurers appear to be ignoring the Scottish legislation.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Tue 1 Feb 13:37
Just as a point of interest re insurance cover.
These alarms do not prevent fires. They are intended to alert people to leave the premises.
No insurance companies will expect a policyholder to fight a fire in their home.
As such insurance companies can not rely on these alarms to not a pay a claim. The criteria is - would not having the alarms made any difference to the fire. If they do not then the cover is ok.
Now if we were legislated to have a sprinkler system and didn`t put one in then they could not pay a claim.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 1 Feb 18:30
Could it not be argued that the alarms give early warning of a fire and the opportunity to limit any damage?
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Topic Originator: Indiapar
Date: Tue 1 Feb 18:37
Its a life safety issue at the day especially at night when you are sleeping. You may be lucky to catch a fire very early such as a smouldering fire but with so many combustible materials in the house and noxious fumes generated as a result I would imagine the advice would be to get out unless you sleep with a fire extinguisher next to your bed
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Tue 1 Feb 20:28
Quote:
wee eck, Tue 1 Feb 18:30
Could it not be argued that the alarms give early warning of a fire and the opportunity to limit any damage?
It could but the insurers would never expect you to fight a fire. The smoke alarms are for life preservation not property so cannot be relied upon to avoid a claim.
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Topic Originator: JTH123
Date: Tue 1 Feb 20:44
Insurers will be enjoying the benefit of the reduced risk for the reason Wee Eck states. Of course it isn`t measurable but it`s there all the same.
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Topic Originator: dover par
Date: Tue 1 Feb 21:51
Starting to look like the only time this legislation will be relevant is when you come to let/sell your home.
"Pressure is something you feel when you don't know what the hell you're doing."
Post Edited (Tue 01 Feb 21:53)
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Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Tue 1 Feb 22:05
This ludicrously over the top guff was sparked off by a fire at a huge tower block with dangerous cladding in London. No relevance to the average house whatsoever. It certainly isn’t being legislated anywhere else in the UK.
Check with your insurance company who will almost certainly confirm your policy is unaffected. When the policy is due for renewal check again. Install these alarms if you want to, ignore this dictact if you don’t
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Wed 2 Feb 13:05
In order for an insurer to avoid any claim, they must show that the cause could have been prevented by these alarms.
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Topic Originator: Ghoulz
Date: Wed 2 Feb 18:06
Astonished by the number of folk here searching for means by which to avoid death and destruction.
Still ... vaccines and masks ... I should have known.
Your friendly neighbourhood Ghoulz.
The Whole Story of The Famous Kinema Ballroom
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 2 Feb 18:47
I`m amazed how many people survived without a vital third smoke alarm in their house.
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Topic Originator: JTH123
Date: Wed 2 Feb 19:49
Why stop there Jake? We spend 8hrs asleep at night in bedrooms yet that`s not where they`ve to be fitted. Have the SG missed a trick?
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Wed 2 Feb 20:08
The amount of folk too lazy too do the simplest of simple research is staggering.
The "Science":
https://files.bregroup.com/research/Scottish-Fire-Deaths_BRE-briefing-paper_110296.pdf
So yes people are dying, yes analysis was done and yes the Government have taken on board some of the Fire service`s recommendations although quite a few go much further. I guess the Fire Service are probably some sort of Marxist organisation or we just ignore experts these days.
50% of fire deaths are attributable to single occupancy dwellings so nothing at all to do with tower blocks.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 2 Feb 21:08
As highlighted, bedrooms don`t require a smoke alarm yet they come after the kitchen and living room as the main place a fire occurs.
Fire deaths are fortunately very low in Scotland. I`d suggest that rather than spending money on forcing people to invest in more alarms, the money would have been better spent on educating people in how to avoid fires occurring in the first place. The vast majority are caused through human error.
As mentioned already, I`ve already heard from someone I know that they`ve disconnected one of their alarms. We all know people do these kind of daft things so education is key.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Wed 2 Feb 21:40
For that reason I`d have no beef with them mandating a need for one in the bedroom too. We`re talking about £100 quid every ten years for a significant amount of folk.
The deaths might be low which is good but more lives can be saved and the people responsible for fire safety have suggested that more alarms are more effective than more advertising. In fact advertising doesn`t feature in the recommendations at all from what I can see.
If folk are daft enough to unplug their alarms rather than fix them properly then you can only hope if something goes pear shaped the damage is limited to them and their property.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Wed 2 Feb 22:24
Alternatively, they advise people on fire safety and leave it up to the homeowner to decide where they put alarms themselves. By mandating you can guarantee the majority will go for the minimum standard.
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Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Wed 2 Feb 22:40
I agree so if you don`t mandate a minimum standard the majority of folk will just do nothing for the most part.
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