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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Wed 11 Nov 20:45
The Vaccine:-
It has to be transported and stored at between -70/80 depending on which report you read and It has to be stored in specially designed ice packs @ £5000 each
"Now then Mrs your local surgery only has fridges trust me So the vaccine will be stored at strategic positions around the Country which may involve long distance travel for many"
It COULD be available at the end of the year if it is fast tracked past the normal safety legislation
It MAY or MAY not stop someone from getting covid -19 ….. Nor stop them from spreading it to others
The Company claim 90% effective but all results are not fully evaluated which could take weeks/months
Each dose that MAY or MAY not work is £15 per jab ...two required …..elevating Pfizer to a 3 billion pound profit company
A vaccine being produced by Oxford, however, may cost as little as £2.23 per dose after the university and manufacturer AstraZeneca agreed not to profit from it. …. Nor any special freezers required :)
Matt Hancock said : ”Of course there are many hurdles that still need to be gone over and we haven`t seen the full safety data and obviously that is critical and we won`t deploy a vaccine unless we can be confident in its clinical safety.
Aye right Matt
Thats why Boris has bought 40 million doses
Nothing wrong with being proactive and prepared but is the Pfizer vaccine really worth the money we are prepared to throw at it ??
Time will tell
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Wed 11 Nov 21:53
Depends which Tory the money is going to end up with.
The English chief medical officer has his fingers in the pie!🤔🤬
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Wed 11 Nov 21:54
Saw That LA but did not want to add it to the post at this stage
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe
Date: Wed 11 Nov 22:03
Pfizer test
44,000 people in the test.
22,000 given vaccine 22,000 given a placebo
Of the 44k, 94 caught Covid or 0.2% of sample.
but 90% of those who caught #covid19 got the placebo and not the vaccine
(0.38% Vs 0.04%)
These are encouraging figures regardless of the fact it's not a 100% cure to the virus.
Considering most vaccines take upwards of 5 years, the early reports suggest this is an early hope to curtail the pandemic drastically.
If Pfizer made billions out of this and it works, then bloody good on them.
They were not given any Government assistance in the USA I must add.
Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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Topic Originator: red-star-par
Date: Wed 11 Nov 23:17
The CEO of Pfizer sold 5.6 million dollars of his shares in the company on Monday just after the news was announced and the share price reached a year long high. Hmmmm
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Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh
Date: Thu 12 Nov 08:38
The most important question that you asked is "is the Pfizer vaccine really worth the money we are prepared to throw at it?"
I think the answer is probably no for the UK, the US, South America, and most of Europe, but yes for Australia, New Zealand, and a lot of Asian countries.
If the infection-fatality rate for this virus is around 0.23%, and the herd-immunity threshold is around 65%, then the epidemic in each country will essentially be over once the deaths reach 150 per 100000 and it will slow down long before this number is reached.
A lot of countries a more than half way to this total, and will no doubt be even closer once the vaccine becomes available. It wouldn`t really be cost-effective to carry out mass vaccination in these countries. Buying doses only for the elderly or vulnerable would probably make sense.
For countries like Australia and New Zealand mass vaccination would make much more sense. Australia might only be 2% of the way to reaching herd immunity and New Zealand only 0.3% so mass vaccination might allow them to open their borders more quickly.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 12 Nov 08:46
That might be right Arrggh but that`s assuming the anti bodies you have after recovering from covid last a decent amount of time and the evidence for this is inconclusive though some reports suggest they may only be effective for a few months.
Eta, aaps, while Pfizer didn`t receive any aid from the USA they are working on the vaccine in partnership with some German company, forget the name, who received a several hundred million euro loan from the German government and further money from the EU.
Post Edited (Thu 12 Nov 08:50)
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Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh
Date: Thu 12 Nov 08:47
True - but it could also be the case for the vaccine.
Only time will tell...
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 12 Nov 09:03
There is no herd immunity. People don't just get COVID-19 once.
It's questionable why the current vaccine is seemingly around £8 a dose yet the Astra Zenica one is more like £2.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Thu 12 Nov 09:32
Quote :-
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert
Date: Wed 11 Nov 21:53
Depends which Tory the money is going to end up with.
The English chief medical officer has his fingers in the pie!🤔🤬
I read this somewhere LA ...... Surely false news ??
A director of the public relations firm paid £670,000 to advise the head of the UK government coronavirus vaccine task force is a longstanding business associate of Dominic Cummings father-in-law.
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 12 Nov 09:44
Jake, herd immunity can still be achieved if the cases of reinfection are very low. As it stands just now we still don`t have an accurate idea of how many cases are of reinfection.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh
Date: Thu 12 Nov 10:17
This is correct. It is only if the reinfection rate gets really high that we have a problem, and if this is the case the vaccine might be fairly useless too.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 12 Nov 12:53
My understanding is immunity only lasts a few months.
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Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh
Date: Thu 12 Nov 16:26
No one knows how long immunity will last (on average) for this virus at the moment.
It is clear that some people might only be immune for a few months (hence the reports of reinfections) but others could be immune for many years.
What has been shown is that antibody levels can drop off quite quickly and for some people they aren`t detectable after a few months. A lot of the media has interpreted this as meaning that people are no longer immune, but the immune response to SARS-Cov-2 is probably a lot more complex than just antibody levels.
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Topic Originator: donj
Date: Thu 12 Nov 18:19
I`ll take the vaccine even though I think wife and I had it before lockdown as hopefully it will allow the world to get back to normal.Side effects might happen but I really am getting fed up living like this.
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Topic Originator: SAP PAR
Date: Thu 12 Nov 19:06
Quote:
jake89, Thu 12 Nov 12:53
My understanding is immunity only lasts a few months.
I caught COVID in March. I had an anti body test last week and still have antibodies 8 months later. Granted everybody is different.
I suffered quite badly with it even though I am fit and had no underlying health issues.
Not something I would like to experience again.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Tue 17 Nov 09:20
The Guardian claims the government "scrambled" to secure five million doses of Moderna`s jab within four hours of the announcement that it was almost 95% effective "amid fears that Britain had missed out".
Boris should start reading dot net :)
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Tue 17 Nov 09:56
Quote:
Buspasspar, Tue 17 Nov 09:20
The Guardian claims the government "scrambled" to secure five million doses of Moderna`s jab within four hours of the announcement that it was almost 95% effective "amid fears that Britain had missed out".
Boris should start reading dot net :)
So we really only have Salman's word of it's effectiveness then, cool so many . Netters are going first.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 17 Nov 16:50
Has Bill Gates got his grubby paws into all these vaccines or will we get to choose who is going to control us?
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Tue 17 Nov 18:24
Rank Rotten to the core the lot of them
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Tue 17 Nov 19:10
Quote:
wee eck, Tue 17 Nov 16:50
Has Bill Gates got his grubby paws into all these vaccines or will we get to choose who is going to control us?
Don't be daft. He only puts his nanobots into a handful of vaccines at a time so as to go unnoticed. His plan is to infect us over a 10-20 year period. He'll use his new servants to act as influencers.
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 17 Nov 20:22
Dolly Parton`s the latest one to try and get into our heads. She has paid $1m for the privilege apparently.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Tue 17 Nov 20:37
Between 9 to 5 wee eck ?
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Tue 17 Nov 21:02
Don`t knock `er! She`s a bit of a philanthropist it would seem.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Thu 19 Nov 09:04
Mock all you like but if you really believe Hancock (Pfizer shares) and Surack (Moderna shares) have your best interests at heart, you go first, simple.
You get to be a lab rat and fill Tories pockets, good citizens.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Thu 19 Nov 09:45
Can I get the Russian vaccine then Rasta?
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Thu 19 Nov 09:51
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Thu 19 Nov 09:45
Can I get the Russian vaccine then Rasta?
You can get whatever rushed through crap you like, why you obsess over the russian variant is beyond me, maybe you could enlighten?
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
Post Edited (Thu 19 Nov 10:23)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 19 Nov 15:55
Quote:
Rastapari, Thu 19 Nov 09:04
Mock all you like but if you really believe Hancock (Pfizer shares) and Surack (Moderna shares) have your best interests at heart, you go first, simple.
You get to be a lab rat and fill Tories pockets, good citizens.
Can you link to evidence of Hancock and Surack having shares in these companies? Also be useful if there was a list of other companies with a vaccine produced in vast quantities.
Post Edited (Thu 19 Nov 15:56)
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Thu 19 Nov 16:13
From the Guardian :-
Chancellor’s former hedge fund invested heavily in Moderna, which had 94.5% trial success
Also when he became a minister he set up a blind trust to keep his financial dealings and wealth from Plebs like us :)
Edit to add he is alleged to be the richest MP
Post Edited (Thu 19 Nov 16:21)
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 19 Nov 16:22
Quote:
Buspasspar, Thu 19 Nov 16:13
From the Guardian :-
Chancellor’s former hedge fund invested heavily in Moderna, which had 94.5% trial success
Also when he became a minister he set up a blind trust to keep his financial dealings and wealth from Plebs like us :)
Edit to add he is alleged to be the richest MP
"Former" so he wouldn't benefit from any profits.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Thu 19 Nov 16:26
Just read up on this a bit.
So, Hancock has no shares in Pfizer. That's utter bollocks.
Sunack had shares in Moderna via a firm he left 7 years ago. He's refused to say if he still profits.
Even if Sunack did profit, he wasn't involved in selecting a vaccine supplier and the Moderna vaccine is something like 5m doses Vs the 30m for Pfizer.
Presumably procurement exercises have taken place? I'd imagine it's a limited set of suppliers.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Thu 19 Nov 16:27
Hard to figure jake89 He refuses to say if he will profit or not but :-
It is not known whether the chancellor retained any investment in the Theleme fund after leaving. Theleme is registered in the Cayman Islands, a tax haven which does not make company records public. Ordinarily, a partner in a hedge fund would own a stake in the management company and have money invested in its fund.
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Thu 19 Nov 16:31
So Hancock does have shares your saying jake89 ??
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Thu 19 Nov 20:54
So Rasta would you be happy taking a vaccine that's like likely to come from Oxford?
Or are you just against taking vaccines in general?
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 20 Nov 08:23
Hancock has no shares in Pfizer.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Fri 20 Nov 08:29
Quote:
jake89, Fri 20 Nov 08:23
Hancock has no shares in Pfizer.
Have a deeper look into that.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 20 Nov 08:30
Can you share Rasta? I've already asked for evidence yet none is forthcoming.
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Topic Originator: Rastapari
Date: Fri 20 Nov 08:33
Quote:
moviescot, Thu 19 Nov 20:54
So Rasta would you be happy taking a vaccine that's like likely to come from Oxford?
Or are you just against taking vaccines in general?
I'd be happy to take one that spent the usual time in development...but no doubt "fact checkers" are calling the British Medical Journal false now, the new average development time will be revised to 4 or 5 months.
I have an old school chum worked for Astrazenica up until January when they quit, I'd tell you why but I'm not a newspaper, it would only be met with derision.
Like I keep saying, be the rat, be the hero.
Carole Baskin fed Rasta to a tiger.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Fri 20 Nov 16:44
Quote:
Rastapari, Fri 20 Nov 08:33
Quote:
moviescot, Thu 19 Nov 20:54
So Rasta would you be happy taking a vaccine that's like likely to come from Oxford?
Or are you just against taking vaccines in general?
I'd be happy to take one that spent the usual time in development...but no doubt "fact checkers" are calling the British Medical Journal false now, the new average development time will be revised to 4 or 5 months.
I have an old school chum worked for Astrazenica up until January when they quit, I'd tell you why but I'm not a newspaper, it would only be met with derision.
Like I keep saying, be the rat, be the hero.
Similar idea from me actually. I know that there probably has been a lot of work done to get a vaccine. Probably more intensive than ever before.
However although the average time for a vaccine is around 10 years, you have to look at some recent cases.
Ebola - 43 years and first vaccine now available.
HIV - still no approved vaccine and little headway towards one.
Respiratory syncytial virus - no vaccine and little progress towards one. This is despite years of work and certainly in terms of hiv, a lot of money thrown at it.
SARS - 15 years to get to the point of a vaccine. Never needed of course as SARS dissipated.
This all seems very quick to me. Hopefully they do work but I think if they do they will be a temporary fix. Maybe even if it works temporarily it will provide enough respite to force the virus away as it will for a period have no carriers.
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Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 20 Nov 18:34
Coronavirus has existed for years. COVID-19 is just a variant.
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Topic Originator: Buspasspar
Date: Fri 20 Nov 19:22
Correct jake89 even the common cold which they still have not found a vaccine for
Why ?....because the virus mutates and covid 19 is the latest mutation of the common cold, mers, sars, flu etc
We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Fri 20 Nov 21:39
Quote:
jake89, Fri 20 Nov 18:34
Coronavirus has existed for years. COVID-19 is just a variant.
Coronavirus is generic collective term. Covid 19 is one variant.
We have never ever managed to produce a vaccine for any coronavirus variant
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Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks
Date: Fri 20 Nov 22:52
That`s more to do with the fact that there has never really been the will or need to do so. Necessity and mother of invention and all that.
And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Sat 21 Nov 00:53
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Fri 20 Nov 22:52
That`s more to do with the fact that there has never really been the will or need to do so. Necessity and mother of invention and all that.
There was a pressing need when they believed data SARS b was the next pandemic. They certainly believed it was necessary when hiv was rife (not a coronavirus) but the vaccine issue was the same.
I trust that I'm wrong but an effective vaccine in such a short time has never happened.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sat 21 Nov 08:54
Quote:
moviescot, Sat 21 Nov 00:53
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Fri 20 Nov 22:52
That`s more to do with the fact that there has never really been the will or need to do so. Necessity and mother of invention and all that.
There was a pressing need when they believed data SARS b was the next pandemic. They certainly believed it was necessary when hiv was rife (not a coronavirus) but the vaccine issue was the same.
I trust that I'm wrong but an effective vaccine in such a short time has never happened.
You'd be surprised what humans can do if we put our minds to it.
The moon landings for instance were pretty difficult but massive resources were chucked at it until it happened.
Rough sleeping was ended for two months during lockdown. It used to be argued that this was impossible because some folk wanted to sleep rough. But once the necessary resources were available there was nobody sleeping outdoors in Edinburgh.
It's about priorities.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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Topic Originator: moviescot
Date: Sat 21 Nov 14:51
Quote:
Wotsit, Sat 21 Nov 08:54
Quote:
moviescot, Sat 21 Nov 00:53
Quote:
The One Who Knocks, Fri 20 Nov 22:52
That`s more to do with the fact that there has never really been the will or need to do so. Necessity and mother of invention and all that.
There was a pressing need when they believed data SARS b was the next pandemic. They certainly believed it was necessary when hiv was rife (not a coronavirus) but the vaccine issue was the same.
I trust that I'm wrong but an effective vaccine in such a short time has never happened.
You'd be surprised what humans can do if we put our minds to it.
The moon landings for instance were pretty difficult but massive resources were chucked at it until it happened.
Rough sleeping was ended for two months during lockdown. It used to be argued that this was impossible because some folk wanted to sleep rough. But once the necessary resources were available there was nobody sleeping outdoors in Edinburgh.
It's about priorities.
Are you suggesting that an HIV vaccine was not a priority
It's all very well saying we went to the moon (over 15 years in the planning) and rough sleeping ( that was just the will to do it). It was always possible.
Getting a vaccine in under a year. Never been done before regardless of priorities.
I hope we haven't just gone with these vaccines without the proper testing.
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Topic Originator: Wotsit
Date: Sat 21 Nov 21:52
[I]Are you suggesting that an HIV vaccine was not a priority [/I]
Yes.
HIV was never taken all that seriously since it didn`t impact the economic stability of the industrialised nations. It was thought of as a gay disease and was actually a bit of a joke or, at best, an unspoken taboo. There`s no economic case for a vaccine now that there is an effective treatment for HiV. It is a manageable condition like diabetes now.
Covid isn`t so easy to ignore and I expect that if there was an effective treatment available first then funding for vaccine research would have dried up.
The enemy travels by private jet, not by dinghy.
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