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 Farage
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 3 Jun 16:33

Nigel Farage has said that he will stand for election in Clacton, and that he is taking over leadership of Reform UK, and he intends to “lead a political revolt” and “a turning of our backs on the political status quo.”

He told the audience at a Reform UK event in London:

Nothing in this country works anymore. The health service doesn’t work. The roads don’t work. None of our public services are up to scratch. We are in decline. This will only be turned around with boldness.

We’re very, very much on the side of that little guy or woman. We’re very much on the side of growth. We’re very much on the side of ending the poisoning of our education system, where 50% of young people don’t even know what D-day is.

So make no mistake. We are unashamedly patriotic. We believe that it’s right to put the interests of British people first. We believe Brexit needs to be implemented properly. And we are going to be the voice of opposition. And I tell you what, I’ve done it before. I’ll do it again. I will surprise everybody.

He said their ambition is to be the opposition in this parliament and the largest party by 2029.

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Mon 3 Jun 16:58

So is that him admitting that Westminster can’t run a country and that rUK is a total mess?
I suppose you can’t really deny that given the headlines…
…but in the next breath he’ll be making out that we’re too little/stupid/etc to do any better and that we’re doing better because we’re being governed by Westminster.

I even heard the current chancellor on telly last week saying it wasn’t Liz truss fault that mortgages went up after her disastrous mini budget, and it was really external events!

Post Edited (Mon 03 Jun 16:58)
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 3 Jun 17:08

He does realise that part of the reason the country is in a state is that bloody patriotism?! His ilk have ruined this country.
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 3 Jun 17:12

You`re forgetting he has no self-awareness. Somebody pointed out something he said not so long ago. In February he told the Times “Do I want to be an MP? Do I want to spend every Friday for the next five years in Clacton?”

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 3 Jun 17:32

It`s good to know there`s been no significant British history since the 1940s though. I`m sure teaching kids about events 80 years ago will bring out some true British values. We should do away with these modern cars too. Nothing wrong with an old Austin.
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 22:44




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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 22:47

Do these percentages take into account first past the post is basically a crap voting system though?
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par  
Date:   Thu 20 Jun 22:52

No they don`t. You have to look at polling in individual constituencies, let`s pick one at random....er, Clacton for example.





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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Fri 21 Jun 02:09

Clacton sounds like a right wank of a place to live right enough.
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Fri 21 Jun 06:51

Clacton and Farage were made for each other. Clacton is the centre of the Oik movement, and Farage is the king of the Oiks.

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Dave_1885  
Date:   Fri 21 Jun 10:32

Polls really aren’t a great scope of things though. They can be manipulated to get the result the pollers want. Even independent polls will have an agenda.

The silent majority are the ones who determine elections.
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 21 Jun 11:10

I`ve just read a piece in the Guardian interviewing a group of younger voters about the Election. Reform UK seem to be using social media a lot, in particular Tik Tok, to influence young voters and possibly by using `bots`. That`s where a lot of them get their news. Scary stuff.

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 21 Jun 13:01

Definite Russian money involved in Reform. How people can`t see them is beyond me. As dodgy as they come.
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Dave_1885  
Date:   Fri 21 Jun 21:13

Quote:

jake89, Fri 21 Jun 13:01

Definite Russian money involved in Reform. How people can`t see them is beyond me. As dodgy as they come.


People dont want to see it thats why 😂😂
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Fri 21 Jun 21:41

You do have to worry who is financing and backing Farage. For such a shallow soundbite guy he gets far too much attention. Even when he had very little support, BBC gave him an unreasonable amount of airtime. It`s actually quite frightening the way politics can be hijacked these days by simple repetitive messages, bots, Cambridge Analytica, tiktok politics. It`s very sinister indeed.

Democracy is dead now, people are too stupid for it
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Dave_1885  
Date:   Fri 21 Jun 21:49

Quote:

red-star-par, Fri 21 Jun 21:41

You do have to worry who is financing and backing Farage. For such a shallow soundbite guy he gets far too much attention. Even when he had very little support, BBC gave him an unreasonable amount of airtime. It`s actually quite frightening the way politics can be hijacked these days by simple repetitive messages, bots, Cambridge Analytica, tiktok politics. It`s very sinister indeed.

Democracy is dead now, people are too stupid for it


He has too many blue tick grifters on social media pushing his agenda. These are the like of Dan Wooton and Adam Brookes - weapons of the highest order used to push his parties rhetoric.
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Fri 21 Jun 21:50

You seem to be an authority on stupidity

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Fri 21 Jun 22:01


Why do the Russians care who wins in Clacton-on-Sea?

Haven’t they got a war to win?

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Fri 21 Jun 22:14

Quote:

Parboiled, Fri 21 Jun 21:50

You seem to be an authority on stupidity


Funnily enough, I was actually thinking that the target market for Farage would be people exactly like you. A little bit thick, easily led, believes everything the Daily Mail spoonfeeds them, deeply unpopular with anyone that has the misfortune to meet them so has a huge chip on their shoulder and is on the look out for a scapegoat to blame

I bet you lap up everything Nigel Farage says
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 21 Jun 22:49

Quote:

Tad Allagash, Fri 21 Jun 22:01

Why do the Russians care who wins in Clacton-on-Sea?

Haven’t they got a war to win?


Well he`s now saying it`s our fault there is a war in Ukraine. Nice one, idiot.
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Fri 21 Jun 23:03

jake89 wrote:

>
Quote:

Tad Allagash, Fri 21 Jun 22:01
>
> Why do the Russians care who wins in Clacton-on-Sea?
>
> Haven’t they got a war to win?

>
> Well he`s now saying it`s our fault there is a war in Ukraine.
> Nice one, idiot.

So you’ll be grateful for our first past the post system when Reform only win 3 seats?

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 21 Jun 23:12

Are all right-wing nutters narcissists or are all narcissists right-wing nutters?
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par  
Date:   Fri 21 Jun 23:31

Quote:

Topic Originator: jake89
Date: Fri 21 Jun 22:49

Well he`s now saying it`s our fault there is a war in Ukraine. Nice one, idiot.


NATO encroachment since 1952.

2014 Maidan coup.

Boris telling the Ukrainians "We" would back them no matter what and not to enter peace talks.


Putin did not just get up one day and think invading Ukraine was a pretty good idea and this was not a Polish v Germany manufactured excuse for invasion as in 1939.

"We" as in the UK and USA have contributed to situation as it stands today and "we" seem to be happy for Ukraine to fight to the very last man.

Hundreds of thousands have died and it will continue until Russia wins or a peace treaty is signed.

Coming to this conclusion does not make anyone "an apologist" it makes them a realist.


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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 21 Jun 23:36

Quote:

Tad Allagash, Fri 21 Jun 23:03

jake89 wrote:

>
Quote:

Tad Allagash, Fri 21 Jun 22:01
>
> Why do the Russians care who wins in Clacton-on-Sea?
>
> Haven’t they got a war to win?

>
> Well he`s now saying it`s our fault there is a war in Ukraine.
> Nice one, idiot.

So you’ll be grateful for our first past the post system when Reform only win 3 seats?


Absolutely not. If so many people want Reform then they should have Reform. Being brutally honest, the last thing Farage wants to do is be in a position of power. Much easier to make money sniping from the sidelines. See how long it takes them to be found out.
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 22 Jun 09:30

I read that Farage is a Belgian citizen, paying his taxes in Belgium, how can he be eligible for a UK election?

Has it all changed since Sunak held a green card or dual citizenship?
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Sat 22 Jun 10:03

Tom Tutendhat - the former Tory leadership candidate - has dual UK/French citizenship.

Boris Johnson was born in New York but has since given up his US citizenship.

You can also have Irish or Commonwealth citizenship and be an MP.

Not sure about Farage - I thought it was his kids who had German passports.

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Sat 22 Jun 11:42

The BBC really should take some heat over giving this teat so much air time. UKIP were nobodies, yet got the same air time as the SNP or Lib Dems, arguably more? Insanity
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Sat 22 Jun 12:17

Well if we’re talking about him on a Pars forum, you can’t really blame the BBC - who have a public service obligation - for giving him airtime.

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 22 Jun 12:31

I didn`t realise that was the criterion the BBC used for giving politicians air-time!
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 22 Jun 12:34

The number of MP`S that jumped off the Brexit bus with dual passports was over 300, according to sources.

Farage`s children have German passports, something he was denied, so he jumped to Belgium and pays taxes there.

So much for the loyal unionists!
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Sat 22 Jun 13:00

‘so he jumped to Belgium and pays taxes there.’

I’m surprised he’s paying taxes anywhere to be fair.😀

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 22 Jun 13:04

Isn`t his wife (or is she now his ex-wife?) German?

ETA - According to wikipedia they are still married but living apart.



Post Edited (Sat 22 Jun 13:10)
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 22 Jun 13:53

Andrew, to be fair to the BBC, in the two elections before the Brexit referendum, 2010 & 2015, UKIP got a far greater share of the vote than the SNP so that would be why the national broadcaster had to platform them.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Sat 22 Jun 14:02

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Sat 22 Jun 13:53

Andrew, to be fair to the BBC, in the two elections before the Brexit referendum, 2010 & 2015, UKIP got a far greater share of the vote than the SNP so that would be why the national broadcaster had to platform them.


How many seats have UKIP ever won though? That mob should have been relegated to obscurity along with the BNP
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Sat 22 Jun 14:16

Farage has French ancestry if I`m not mistaken but his wife is German and his kids are dual citizens.

As for Bletchleys comments RE Ukraine, they simply aren`t grounded in reality. Putin has a habit of starting conflicts when he`s facing a tricky situation domestically. Chechnya when he needed to establish himself as a strongman, Georgia in 2008 when the opposition started to gather momentum and Ukraine in 2022 when there were mass protests against corruption. If you think Ukraine is anything other than an attempt to create a legacy for himself and secure his position then you are gravely mistaken.

As for the conflict itself, the Ukrainians are getting back on the front foot and what they have achieved so far in the air and on land without a significant navy or air force to speak of is remarkable. The only thing Putin will understand is death and that`s exactly what the Western Weapons will give him. Especially when the Ukrainians can properly employ air superiority, which they haven`t been able to do yet.

Personally I reckon the Tories will find themselves in hot water once the conflict ends as the oligarch donations to the party will be properly investigated. Boris Johnson was probably aware of this and was keen to make amends but also to cover it up, hence his support for the Ukrainians. Farage and his various parties will likely have had Oligarch donations as well as part of the Kremlins hybrid warfare campaigns.

I have to admit though, I doubt that the Tories actually want to win the election with some of the stuff they`re coming out with. Labour I think will also struggle to fix much of the damage without reversing Brexit or at least rejoining the Single Market, which will be a rather... interesting... Prospect.
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par  
Date:   Sat 22 Jun 14:45

Quote:


Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Sat 22 Jun 14:16

As for Bletchleys comments RE Ukraine, they simply aren`t grounded in reality


What`s not "based in reality"?

Are you saying there has been no expansion of NATO since 1952?

Are you denying the US puppet government installed in 2014?

Yer Uni-Party man Boris telling Zelenskyy not to indulge in peace talks is well documented.

If you don`t think those 3 things have contributed (which is all my post claimed) to the on-going war then I suggest it is you who is having a problem with reality.


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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Sat 22 Jun 15:23

Bletchley,

Countries APPLY to join NATO. Have you ever thought that perhaps the former Soviet and Warsaw Pact countries don`t want to be ruled by Russia?

I`m very curious how Poroshenko`s government was a US puppet? If you make such comments you`re quite obviously ignorant of the political situation in Ukraine since 1991 and simply want to ignore the hybrid warfare tactics Russia has been employing since Putin came in.

I`ve challenged others to provide a source regarding Boris Johnsons supposed poo-pooing of peace talks and none has been forthcoming. Certainly I can`t find it either. Please present this.
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par  
Date:   Sat 22 Jun 17:31

Quote:

Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy
Date: Sat 22 Jun 15:23


Countries APPLY to join NATO. Have you ever thought that perhaps the former Soviet and Warsaw Pact countries don`t want to be ruled by Russia?


"Apply" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. Saying you apply for NATO membership is like saying you are applying for a job that you are the only applicant for and you`ve been told it was created for you.

Ultimately you are invited to apply for NATO membership.

No matter how the expansion of NATO has come about, it has come about and given NATO`s very existence was an alliance against Moscow it`s expansion is more than just an imagined threat to Russia.


Quote:

I`m very curious how Poroshenko`s government was a US puppet? If you make such comments you`re quite obviously ignorant of the political situation in Ukraine since 1991 and simply want to ignore the hybrid warfare tactics Russia has been employing since Putin came in.


In February 2014, the USA overthrew Yanukovych alongside Ukrainian far-right (Real far right as in Nazi`s, not I know there are 2 genders or I believe in a sensible immigration police "Nazis".) and this was days after the EU had brokered a deal to agree to a government of national unity in Kiev, they stormed the government buildings and within hours the US came out in support of Poroshenko.

I am quite well versed in the political situation in the Donbas and surrounding areas going all the way back to 1870, when my family fled the pogroms there.

Quote:

I`ve challenged others to provide a source regarding Boris Johnsons supposed poo-pooing of peace talks and none has been forthcoming. Certainly I can`t find it either. Please present this.


Branko Marcetic of The Times reported Johnson urged Zelenskyy to call of peace talks with Moscow because "Putin cannot be negotiated with, and the West isn’t ready for the war to end."

A claim that was repeated by Putin a over a year later when he was interviewed by Tucker Carlson.

Similar accounts are reported elsewhere, I suspect these sources will not be enough for you, and that`s fine, it is your prerogative to decide which sources you deem of suitable gravitas.

I said these 3 things contributed to the situation we find ourselves in today with regard the Russia-Ukraine war, I am very careful with my words there are many other contributing factors that were not our fault. Some emanating from Moscow, some from Kiev.


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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par  
Date:   Sun 23 Jun 01:34




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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Sun 23 Jun 06:58

I saw a clip of what he said and it didn’t seem to me quite like it was being painted by msm

It was more along the lines of he was asked a question about it and said that,

10 years ago he has stated that the ever eastward expansion of European Union/NATO would give putin the opportunity to present to his people’s the narrative that they [Russia] are coming under attack and that he could use that narrative to do what he is now doing… and that he has essentially been proved correct

That’s doesn’t seem quite the same as he’s being attacked for
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sun 23 Jun 08:43

So it wasn`t two years ago he said it was the West that provoked Russia into invading Ukraine it was ten years ago he said it was the the West when , you know, Russia first invaded Ukraine.
He also said that he admired Putin for the way he has taken control of Russia. I can`t quite understand how anyone who believes in democracy can admire the way that Putin has operated.
He also said the Liz Truss budget was the best conservative budget for forty years. It`s actually great to see the big bad msm actually grilling him for a change.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Tue 25 Jun 02:02

I can`t understand this denialism from HJ. The Russia-Ukraine peace agreement was well documented, as Bletchley Par correctly observes. Indeed, I referred to the agreement - and Boris Johnson`s role in its collapse - in dotnet many months ago.

It goes back to the old argument that you must first obtain information from all points of the compass before asserting or dismissing something. His failure to do that constantly exposes the weakness in HJ`s arguments.

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Tue 25 Jun 09:31

Interesting that you mention the Pogroms Bletchley, as it seems that you want to ignore the fact that these only started after Russia had control of the area and were covered up by the Tsar and actively encouraged by the Okhrana.

You also seem to want to ignore the hybrid was tactics that the Russians have used in Ukraine and other states for the last 20-odd years in an attempt to undermine their sovereignty. And also the fact that the Pro-Russian Party of Regions was the one who stirred up much of the issues surrounding language policy in Ukraine, which never existed until Yanukovych. Funnily enough, they were not so keen on giving the Hungarians in Transcarpathia the same rights as they demanded for Russian speakers. Once again, an attempt by the Russians to undermine the Ukrainian state. They are attempting the same thing with the Russians living in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. You`ll quite likely ignore this as you have with the other points though because it doesn`t fit your ill-founded narrative.

The other real irony is your support for the Zion-nazis of Likud running Israel. Surely if you are of Jewish heritage then you should sympathise with another group who is being oppressed? Or is the Israeli denial of basic resources such as water, land and food some sort of "Western Hysteria" in your mind? Personally I believe Islamists and Zionists are two cheeks of the same backside, but Hamas would not exist if it were not for the actions of the Israelis and the Azhkenazi Jews in particular. My bet is that we`ll now see the "Anti-Semitic" card played as is always the case when Israel faces the slightest criticism. Funnily enough, they`re all to happy to cover up things like the annual Spitting on Christians and the activities of the likes of Beitar Jerusalem Ultras. But of course this will be ignored because it doesn`t fit your narative.

You know as well as I do why the likes of the Visegrad and Baltic states CHOSE to join NATO. Were it not for Putin, then Finland and Sweden would NEVER have joined and no political party advocated it.

If that DP you have is intended to be a signal of your political leanings, then that tells everybody what they need to know regarding the factuality of many of your positions.

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Wed 26 Jun 01:32

Oz, What I really can`t understand - especially considering your claimed background in Media - is the fact that you spout the CCP and Kremlin narrative direct from the likes of TASS or CGTN and think that it has factual basis. There is a clear difference between news and factual reports on the one hand and government-approved narrative on the other. Russian and Chinese media reports ALL have to be state approved - are you going to deny this fact?

I`ve given you several examples that prove your narratives to be false. You either can`t or refuse to counter these points, be it on the Russia-Ukraine conflict or the narrative regarding De-dollarisation and BRICs and China. Your historical and contemporary knowledge is quite severely lacking in those areas, yet you insist on projecting headlines that do little to convey details or facts. It reminds me of a certain "man" who once occupied the White House and another who sat in Downing Street.

Let`s take an example from the last few days. The Russians used SR400 air defence systems to shoot down ATACMS missiles over Sevastopol. Now, the SR400 is a fairly advanced system with a range of several hundred KMs and these missiles were fired from territory controlled by Ukraine, so when the SR400 has this range and can be deployed pretty much anywhere, why would the Russians intercept the missiles over a populated area like Sevastopol? Could it perhaps be that they were in full knowledge that the debris from intercepting the missiles at this point would strike residential areas and they could claim that this was the Ukrainians attacking civilians? I think we both know the answer here.

You attacked another poster on the "Israel Must Stop" thread for CORRECTLY stating that Hamas camp out in schools and hospitals. If you speak out so fervently on this example of injustice in Gaza yet deny the factuality of the above and the many other examples regarding the Russians in Ukraine, then is it not a double standard?

Given your age, you likely had immediate relatives that fought dictators. You have previously suggested that the Ukrainians should simply surrender. How then can you reasonably expect the Ukrainians to simply roll over and cow-tow to Kremlin demands after the hundreds of thousands of deaths that ONE MAN has caused? In my mind, that is simply shameful.

Edit: I also asked you previously to provide me the source on Boris Johnson to back your claim and you failed to do so. Feel free to provide it here.


Post Edited (Wed 26 Jun 01:34)
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Wed 26 Jun 04:47

HJ, I am wondering if you have lost the plot. I have answered all your questions, often in great detail. And you still come back for more! My answer is simple: get out of your little information closet and explore more sources beyond the Rupert Murdoch-dictated narrative. You claim I am repeating a Russian or Chinese narrative. You couldn`t be more wrong! It would help if you got out more.

You may be in Hong Kong now, but that need not make you an authority on China. As in other entrepots like Singapore and Dubai, where trade is everything, most expats I have met in HK tend to live in a very Western bubble. They talk like the locals don`t exist, and they dismiss everything they see. I have been to HK perhaps 30 times since 1984; it drives me crazy, as after about three days in the company of these expats, I am usually desperate to leave or at least get out amongst the Chinese.

And what on earth are you talking about with the Ukraine attack on Sevastopol? Do you not realise the significance of this? We are closer to the eruption of a nuclear war than we were in the Cuban Missile Crisis! And you spit this nonsense?

The reality, whether you like it or not, is that the Ukrainians are losing the war. The evidence is everywhere.

And don`t fool yourself; Putin was provoked into a war by Ukraine`s active interest in joining NATO and NATO`s willingness to talk to Ukraine, despite US Secretary of State James Baker`s public assurance to Gorbachev in 1990 that NATO would never expand to the east.

As for Boris Johnson`s actions in April 2022 - perhaps this source will end your abstract denialism...

https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2024/05/06/2022-secret-ukraine-russia-peace-negotiations

Incidentally, I wonder what happened to our Moscow correspondent, sammer? Usually, he would be all over this topic.

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Wed 26 Jun 06:52

Sources? They are nowhere near TASS and CGTN. Here`s an excellent background on how and why Russia invaded Ukraine...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ0hMXRWxms

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Wed 26 Jun 08:43

Oz, you CONSTANTLY avoid dealing with specific points and write in empty platitudes. Yet again, you fail to deal with specifics that counter your narrative quite soundly.

I also don`t understand the obsession you have with Rupert Murdoch. I read news from German and Swedish outlets in their respective languages and personally I quite like Reuters for English news. When it comes to Asia I like Nikkei and NHK (although they are questionable with some of their domestic reporting), Al Jazeera is good for the Middle East and I used to like SCMP before it became null and void.

You`ve talked before about independent news creators, so here are some very prominent and well-respected ones, all of whom speak and read Mandarin fluently and will counter your narrative on China quite resoundingly:

LaoWhy86: https://www.youtube.com/user/laowhy86
SerpentZA: https://www.youtube.com/user/serpentza
China Uncensored https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgFP46yVT-GG4o1TgXn-04Q

Or if you want a Chinese face, try this one:
https://www.youtube.com/@ChinaUncleMikey

As for your comments regarding ex-pats in HK, I actually agree with you. Most of my colleagues are locals with a small ex-pat and a small mainland contingent. I personally detest the attitude of many of the English ex-pats out here, many of whom have the old colonial attitude - that`s why most of my friends are locals and most of my ex-pat friends are from the non-anglophone world.

I was taught the history, politics and economics of Russia and the Soviet Union by Russians and Swedes in Sweden. The Swedish teachers spoke Russian to a high level and many of them had spouses from different ex-Soviet countries. Funnily enough, one of my Swedish language teachers was Russian as well. Sweden has historically been neutral and so you really can`t claim bias there, but I can tell you that pretty much all of them HATED Putin but would freely admit that they were initially supportive of him when he came to power. One of the courses I did focussed specifically on the relationship between Russia, Ukraine and Belarus, so I know this quite solidly and it just so happened that the war kicked off in the early part of one of these courses.

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Wed 26 Jun 08:54

If you genuinely think the Ukrainians are losing, then you are bereft of any understanding of either the conflict or modern warfare generally. The Ukrainians have actually been pretty effective recently in severely disrupting the Russians and that`s even before the air power element has been activated. And control of the skies is everything.

We`ve actually been over the point regarding supposed guarantees given to Gorbachev on NATO in another thread but perhaps you don`t remember. I also gave you the contact details of my teacher from Lund who advises the Swedish Government (https://www.sol.lu.se/en/person/NiklasBernsand/) and I asked him about this during the course. It turns out that this was mooted in diplomatic discussions but was rejected by various leaders because it was felt that it would undermine the sovereignty of the new and resurrected states in Europe. There is literally no record of what you state regarding formal assurances.

I`ll take a look at the video you`ve shared and investigate the source a little.

I would be curious to hear a proper addressing of the situation regarding the Air Defence war crime committed by the Russians in Sevastopol in contrast to the one you posted about in the hospital or school in Gaza. Why do you have such double standards?

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 26 Jun 17:33

Back on topic, from the Guardian :-

Nigel Farage, the Reform UK leader, has not been campaigning in Scotland during the election campaign because he does not feel safe there, his colleague Richard Tice said today.

During a visit to Grangemouth, Tice, who was party leader until Farage decided to take over and stand as a candidate at the election, said Farage would not be coming to Scotland because of the risk. Tice said:

`Last time he was here, it was frankly dangerous … it was not safe … You have got to keep your leaders safe and secure, and we have the ability to share the load, and that’s exactly what I’m doing.`

Tice may have been referring to an incident in 2013 when Farage had to be escorted to safety in a police riot van after a mob disrupted a visit he was making in Edinburgh.

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 26 Jun 18:04

Real vote winner that. Sorry, I think your country is too dangerous. Perhaps consider the reality that Scotland doesn`t tolerate oiks like Farage. Can see through that idiot like glass.
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Dave_1885  
Date:   Wed 26 Jun 19:25

They actually believe that Reform will take all Tory seats in Scotland and also overtake the Tories in seats this election - its the same grifters every day on SM pushing the narrative too 😂
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Wed 26 Jun 19:30

The damage he has done to the UK, he should be afraid to show his face anywhere. I wouldn`t lose any sleep if he was wiped out
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Thu 27 Jun 01:55

Have to admit, I am very curious to see what the ReformUK impact will be. If they do somehow gain a foothold then we`re probably in for Trumpian levels of misinformation. We`ve had the lies from the Tories already, but that would take it to a whole other level. UK is well beyond knackered anyways, so the sooner Scotland is out, the better.

Oz - Just an update...are you seriously gonna cite Douglas McGregor as a source? The guy is a well-known Trumper and only came out of the woodwork in the era of disinformation. You really are bordering on Sammer levels of crazy if that`s the case.

There is quite a good chance that Sammer disappeared after getting warned by the Russian police about posting on Western websites, despite his loyalty to Putler. It is quite commonplace for foreigners in Russia to be observed by the FSB. Who knows though, I could well be wrong and such conjecture will infuriate him out of his hidey hole!

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par  
Date:   Thu 27 Jun 02:01

Quote:

Interesting that you mention the Pogroms Bletchley, as it seems that you want to ignore the fact that these only started after Russia had control of the area and were covered up by the Tsar and actively encouraged by the Okhrana.

You also seem to want to ignore the hybrid was tactics that the Russians have used in Ukraine and other states for the last 20-odd years in an attempt to undermine their sovereignty. And also the fact that the Pro-Russian Party of Regions was the one who stirred up much of the issues surrounding language policy in Ukraine, which never existed until Yanukovych. Funnily enough, they were not so keen on giving the Hungarians in Transcarpathia the same rights as they demanded for Russian speakers. Once again, an attempt by the Russians to undermine the Ukrainian state. They are attempting the same thing with the Russians living in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. You`ll quite likely ignore this as you have with the other points though because it doesn`t fit your ill-founded narrative.


This must be a new usage of the word "ignore" that I had previously been aware of. It now seems to mean something unrelated to what I was talking about than you now seem to wish to raise.

"The sky is blue..."

"Ahh you seem to be ignoring the invention of the seed drill in 1701!"


Quote:

The other real irony is your support for the Zion-nazis of Likud running Israel.


Yes just like your support of the insurgents of the third moon of Denneb VI.

You see I can make stuff completely up just like you.

Quote:

Surely if you are of Jewish heritage then you should sympathise with another group who is being oppressed? Or is the Israeli denial of basic resources such as water, land and food some sort of "Western Hysteria" in your mind? Personally I believe Islamists and Zionists are two cheeks of the same backside, but Hamas would not exist if it were not for the actions of the Israelis and the Azhkenazi Jews in particular. My bet is that we`ll now see the "Anti-Semitic" card played as is always the case when Israel faces the slightest criticism. Funnily enough, they`re all to happy to cover up things like the annual Spitting on Christians and the activities of the likes of Beitar Jerusalem Ultras. But of course this will be ignored because it doesn`t fit your narative.


You seem to be hijacking a topic to espouse your own political views, maybe you thought you could somehow drag me into this debate on a subject I was not talking about, but you won`t. You want to talk about that, start a thread on it and the people who wish to engage will choose to do so.


Quote:

You know as well as I do why the likes of the Visegrad and Baltic states CHOSE to join NATO. Were it not for Putin, then Finland and Sweden would NEVER have joined and no political party advocated it.


Do not speculate on what I do and do not know and putting things in capital letter does not make the claim any less false.


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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Thu 27 Jun 05:35

Haha! That was very well said Bletchley Par. I don`t always agree with what you say, but isn`t that the point of a forum? Nonetheless, I couldn`t agree with you more on this particular subject!

:)

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Thu 27 Jun 08:27

Bletchley - Simply repeating false information as you are currently doing doesn`t make it any less false.

It is indeed very telling that you actually ignore the points made to you and that is very common with people on your part of the political spectrum.

I did also enjoy how you tell me to start a thread on Israel, yet you seem to be tactically avoiding the thread that Oz started. Why is that? Could it be that you have previously attacked people for calling the Israeli genocide of the Palestinians out for being just that, a genocide?

Also, if you are in possession of some evidence such as legal statutes regarding your claims about NATO`s "Eastward Expansion" as you call it and the organisation not being voluntary, then I would love to see those.

It certainly wasn`t my intention to "hijack the thread". Conversations can lead to different points being raised in the midst of other things. Never sat in a pub and "shot the sh*t"? Frankly I`m quite happy to tackle anybody who, like yourself, is intent on spreading disinformation. This is how we ended up with Brexit and the economic mess we see now. That said, the Russian money involved in the various far-right movements in Europe and donations to the Tory party are relevant to this General election and it is quite likely that Farage has been involved with the Russians over the years.

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 28 Jun 14:02

Farage always seems surprised when anyone connected to his campaign expresses obnoxious, racist views. Now he`s claiming the C4 undercover filming of his team in Clacton was a set-up and the main culprit was an actor colluding with the TV company. He gets more like Trump every day, especially when things go against him.

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Fri 28 Jun 18:22

Wee Eck - Are you really surprised about such tactics when you see the approach their supporters like Oz and Bletchley above when they simply avoid substantive points that are made to them? The common tactic is to try and discriminate the whistleblower and deflect deflect deflect at all costs.

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 29 Jun 17:02

Nigel Farage has refused to appear on Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg, describing the BBC as having “behaved like a political actor throughout this election”. In a social media post on X today, Farage said he would be “refusing until the BBC apologises for their dishonest QT audience” and that “Reform will be campaigning vigorously to abolish the licence fee”.


He wasn`t complaining when he received numerous invitations to appear on Question Time and wasn`t even an MP or standing to be one.

Post Edited (Sat 29 Jun 17:25)
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Sat 29 Jun 18:47

Poor lad. Heard he won`t campaign in Scotland due to "Safety concerns".

Weak-minded baby trying to avoid any confrontation.
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 29 Jun 19:37

Politician accused BBC of bias. Are we learning yet?

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sun 30 Jun 04:31

Hurricane Jimmy said: Are you really surprised about such tactics when you see the approach their supporters like Oz and Bletchley above when they simply avoid substantive points that are made to them? The common tactic is to try and discriminate the whistleblower and deflect deflect deflect at all costs.

===

Excuse me, HJ. Where, anywhere, have you seen me express support for either Farage or Trump? I despise both of these creatures. Yet again, you fail to properly read what people say, rushing to ill-thought-through judgments.

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Sun 30 Jun 08:05

Oz - The bumph that you write about Biden would certainly suggest a preference for Trump, which isn`t surprising considering the narrative of a number of media outlets in Australia. Moreover you certainly seem to buy into much of the false narrative on Ukraine that the two espouse and you also seem to have no problem with "strongmen" leaders...strange that or is it just mere coincidence?🤔

Post Edited (Sun 30 Jun 08:07)
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Sun 30 Jun 10:05

Like 95% of Australians, I never watch Sky News Australia. It is a disgraceful channel filled with rejects from just about every station imaginable. The UK has a copycat in GB News. Both channels have hardly any viewers and make their reputations through 5-minute clickbaity extracts on YouTube.

I am not looking for "a strongman leader", far from it. I despise Trump and his like. As for Biden, he is an old man who is losing his faculties. People need to accept that Biden must be replaced by someone younger, more vigorous and sharp-witted. Otherwise, Trump is in.

Your reading of the Ukraine situation is beyond daft! If you cannot accept the danger posed by the US, UK, France and NATO giving Zelensky carte blanche to fire into Russia with long-range weaponry, then heaven help you. I hope the proposed peace talks are successful. The alternative is unthinkable if you are a Ukrainian.

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Sun 30 Jun 10:45

Actually Oz, If you really "despise Trump and his like" then you would not be suggesting the appeasement of Putin.

My reading of the Ukraine situation is based on quite a number of things. You`ve claimed for ages that the Ukrainians have lost, yet this is just simply not the case and if you knew anything about warfare you`d understand that. My criticism of the West would be for not acting swiftly enough and I`d go as far as saying that they should go as far as telling Putin to pull his troops and any civilians that wish to be Russian out, otherwise he will face NATO air power. Putin knows that would be game over and his position and probably life lost and China has warned him against the use of Nuclear weapons, so he has no more room for manoeuvre. Make no mistake though, a Russian victory of any kind will lead to war between China and the US as the former will take a pop at Taiwan if that happens. And Taiwan being lost has far greater consequences than Ukraine.

You quite obviously buy into the posturing of authoritarian states - Gorbachev once said of the USSR "Our Power is derived from the perception of our power" - and the current state of affairs should tell you that Russia can basically be pushed into a stalemate with a tiny % of either the US or EU GDP. The West is actually far more powerful than many realise and that will remain the case for quite a while to come.

Pushing the narratives that you are about Ukraine, Russia and China are quite dangerous because they simply ain`t based on fact.
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 30 Jun 10:51

Russia has been firing carte blanche into Ukraine for well over a year, yet the very idea of Ukraine even thinking about putting a missile anywhere near Putin`s real territory is somehow dangerous?

The dangerous phase of this was initiated by the Russian invasion of Crimea and was completely out of the bag when they invaded the rest of Ukraine.

Ukraine seeking to target Russian positions isn`t any kind of escalation: Russia invited it with their invasion. It is inevitable when you invade your neighbour that they will seek to target your ability to wage war against them, it is their right in fact.

I wonder how WWII would have gone if the Allies had been discouraged from attacking German territory.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Sun 30 Jun 22:11

Exactly Wotsit. The other point is that the Ukrainians have been carrying out strikes inside Russia since February 2022. The only difference now is that they have the more advanced European and American weapons.
.
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: OzPar  
Date:   Mon 1 Jul 06:36

I wish you would take off your blinkers and consider the bigger picture. This is not about the Ukrainians; they just push the "fire" button. In every other aspect, right up to the point of "fire", it is the US, the UK, or France that is positioning, guiding and targeting the long-range rockets into Russia.

And that is where all this becomes so dangerous. This is no longer a conflict between Ukraine and Russia; suddenly, the conflict has escalated to include NATO. Officially!

The Russians have made their position clear if this occurs. Putin and Lavrov have both issued statements declaring that Russia will retaliate equally on NATO targets.

Escalation is the last thing we need. With every tit-for-tat, we ramp the temperature up, and a full-scale war between the West and Russia edges ever closer.

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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Mon 1 Jul 08:19

By that logic it has involved North Korea, Iran and China for months, so that ship had also sailed long ago.

And I want to remind you that Russia invaded Ukraine: every escalation has been Russian.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Mon 1 Jul 11:11

Oz, if you think Russia has the capability to deal with NATO on a conventional military level then you are absolutely deluded. The Ukrainians have neutralised both the Russian Navy and Air Force (without even having their own air force or navy to speak of) and practically decimated the professional army all in the face of munition and manpower shortages.

If Russia had the military capabilities you think they do then they would have been wreaking havoc with the supply chains into Ukraine from Romania and Poland. What reason would they have not to do this? Especially when the Kremlin is already telling the public they are at war with the "Collective West". Somehow, I think the Russian public would be in for a funny fright if they were in a proper conflict with NATO.

Putin is not stupid and knows he has nothing to gain from going Nuclear. In fact, doing so would mean that he loses everything, be that through tactical or strategic nuclear weapons.

As was said above by Wotsit, every escalation in this conflict has been Russian, from 2014 onwards. It`s time for NATO to end that war and save Ukrainian lives. The only way to do so is to use air power and this should have been done already.

Post Edited (Mon 01 Jul 11:15)
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: veteraneastender  
Date:   Wed 3 Jul 09:34

Does anybody remember FARAGE’s interview with Gary Robertson on BBC Radio Scotland GMS some years ago ?

About the time NF was confronted by a rent a mob team in Edinburgh.

GR gave Nigel a hard time, as he generally does with politicos - Farage eventually terminated the interview and did a runner - GR off his Xmas card list thereafter.

Classic stuff.
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: AdamAntsParsStripe  
Date:   Thu 4 Jul 17:08

Estimations are Reform to get only one seat.
It’s very similar to the press UKIP got and how much they were bummed up in the media.
I predict Farage won’t get elected himself and will then resign as leader as he did before.

Zwei Pints Bier und ein Päckchen Chips bitte
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 4 Jul 17:44

The seats almost don`t matter though. First past the post means you`ve got millions not represented. The views of those people won`t change and I`m guessing the majority are focussed on immigration and what Labour will therefore do.
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Dave_1885  
Date:   Thu 4 Jul 17:54

Quote:

AdamAntsParsStripe, Thu 4 Jul 17:08

Estimations are Reform to get only one seat.
It’s very similar to the press UKIP got and how much they were bummed up in the media.
I predict Farage won’t get elected himself and will then resign as leader as he did before.


Farage is a huge favourite to win his seat with the bookies, I feel he will be the only one, if not 2/3 others may sneak in
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Bletchley_Par  
Date:   Fri 5 Jul 03:38

Nigel Farage elected in Clacton with a majority of 8,405 over the Tories with 46.2% of the vote.


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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: Dave_1885  
Date:   Fri 5 Jul 05:29

Quote:

Bletchley_Par, Fri 5 Jul 03:38

Nigel Farage elected in Clacton with a majority of 8,405 over the Tories with 46.2% of the vote.


Great 🙄 the fascist has made it in eventually…
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 5 Jul 08:02

I think it`s important to reflect that 4 million people voted Reform. That`s more than the electoral population of Scotland.
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Fri 5 Jul 09:05

At least Farage will now have to do some work. He`s been the mouthpiece that starts trouble then clears off when it kicks off, and then is nowhere to be seen for a while. He`s pretty much cleared the way for a Labour landslide this time
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 Re: Farage
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 5 Jul 14:16

Quote:

jake89, Fri 5 Jul 08:02

I think it`s important to reflect that 4 million people voted Reform. That`s more than the electoral population of Scotland.


Indeed it is, Jake. It`s widely believed that most of their votes have come from former Tory voters, who have decided their party is not tough enough on immigration etc. The prospect of continuing with an ethnic minority PM must have been most unpalatable for those refugees from the BNP.

The UK is one of the few European countries whose government has moved towards the left, but the reality is that if Labour don`t produce a significant improvement in all areas, we might well see a huge rise in support for the King Rat and his fascist henchmen at the next GE.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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