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 Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 9 Jul 12:41

Here`s the bookies early odds:-

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-prime-minister

I can`t say anyone on that list would have me dancing in the streets. Rishi Sunak is the early favourite, but will the Tory MPs vote for a man with a different skin tone? 🤔



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Sat 9 Jul 12:47

I’m sure Westminster has a broader rande of skin tones tHan than any European equivalent!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 9 Jul 13:19

There`s an awful lot of self-promotion going on at this stage. Some aren`t even legends in their own households. Putting themselves forward immediately raises questions about their judgement.

I don`t think I`ve ever seen Keme Badenoch being interviewed anywhere (interesting surname by the way) and know absolutely nothing about her.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 9 Jul 13:59

Sunak`s tax affairs are dodgy, especially his wife`s, involved in the financial crash, 12 houses and a new swimming pool, that costs thousands to heat.

They`re all Tories with grubby dealings, the Education secretary that only lasted hours has connections to dodgy PPE contracts.

So the winner will be Liz Truss, the new Thatcher that spent half a million flying in a private plane to Australia.

God help us!
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 9 Jul 14:13

Quote:

Parboiled, Sat 9 Jul 12:47

I’m sure Westminster has a broader rande of skin tones tHan than any European equivalent!


That might have much to do with chickens from the former British Empire coming home to roost. It`s one thing for the British electorate to vote for an MP with foreign roots, especially in a constituency with many voters of a similar ethnic origin, but quite another for Tory MPs to bite that particular bullet.

I think Rishi Sunak is a strong contender, unlike Zahawi or Javid, but who knows whether Tory MPs will be willing to risk losing the considerable number of votes from the Little Englanders among their ranks? We`ll find out later in the year, I suppose.

I never thought the USA would ever elect a black president in my lifetime, so you can never tell.



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Sat 9 Jul 14:30

In his resignation statement to the Commons Javid boasted “I’m not a quitter”

Eh? One more and that’s a hat trick mate!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Sat 9 Jul 17:34

Depressing




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 9 Jul 18:20

Lets face it .. Its not a great list of applicants is it

Imagine trying to run a successful business and looking for a CEO and this lot sent their CV`s in .. ooer Mrs

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 9 Jul 19:40

Rumour is that BJ is going to fling his hat into the ring!😲💩💩💩

Pity it wasn`t his head!
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Sun 10 Jul 14:10

Buspasspar - Never mind a successful business. This shower would struggle to organise a birthday party for a 3-year-old.

Johnson was a disaster and should never have been allowed near number 10, but Liz Truss in charge of a country sounds like some kind of sick joke.

In the past the party usually tried to select two of the least bad candidates before opening up the vote to the racist nans, but they will struggle to find even one this time. I predict Sunak v Truss, then the outcome will be inevitable...

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Mon 11 Jul 15:29

Who are these racist nans? Are they out to curry favour?

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 12 Jul 11:11

Truss is being backed by Rees-Mogg and Dorries. With friends like these...

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 12 Jul 12:46

And Shapps is a faller at the first fence!!!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Tue 12 Jul 17:56

Everyone one of them are crooked, corrupt, totally out of touch and bare face liars. Not an ounce of empathy between them.
Regardless of who it is, the U.K. will lurch further to the right, become an even bigger laughing stock. Working class people and indeed middle class ( if there is such a class ) will be further penalised for U.K. Govs fiscal incompetence and peoples rights and working conditions will be eroded further.

All of the above will help secure Scottish independence for no one in their right mind will want to be part of the inevitable s**t storm that is coming our way.

Unless of course Labour win the next election and save us all……😵‍💫🤣

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 12 Jul 19:27

The fact that 8 Tory MPs received 20 or more votes suggests that there is no outstanding candidate for the job.....

I fully endorse that view.



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Tue 12 Jul 21:23

Quote:

GG Riva, Tue 12 Jul 19:27

The fact that 8 Tory MPs received 20 or more votes suggests that there is no outstanding candidate for the job.....

I fully endorse that view.


"Outstanding". There`s no decent candidate.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Tue 12 Jul 21:30

When the best (= least awful) candidate is Jeremy Hunt then it is clear that the UK is in for at least another 2 miserable years.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 13 Jul 16:56

Quote:

moviescot, Tue 12 Jul 21:23

Quote:

GG Riva, Tue 12 Jul 19:27

The fact that 8 Tory MPs received 20 or more votes suggests that there is no outstanding candidate for the job.....

I fully endorse that view.


"Outstanding". There`s no decent candidate.


I fully endorse that view, too. 🙂



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: pacifist  
Date:   Wed 13 Jul 17:18

We are coming to the stage that it`s dodgy to expect any of them to serve a full term. That suggests they are split all over the place, as is labour. All of them saying Scotland can`t have another referendum. Seems to me Scotland puts more into the union than anyone is admitting.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 13 Jul 18:36

If we were of no benefit to them pacifist they would have ditched us long ago

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 13 Jul 19:58

Remember at Burntisland shows .. When you had to put yer ball in the moving clowns mouth



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Wed 13 Jul 22:37

I wouldn’t swap Angela Constance (Highest drugs deaths in Europe)
Lorna Slater (Bottle return shambles), Himza ( fall aff my scooter) Yousaf, Angus Robertson ( census shambles rest of UK managed it on time despite covid), Neil Gray ( Ukraine refugees stick them on a cruise ship f**k up because they haven’t been matched with people willing to take them), or Jenny Gilruth ( who?) for any of them ...

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Andrew283  
Date:   Thu 14 Jul 10:19

Quote:

Parboiled, Wed 13 Jul 22:37

I wouldn’t swap Angela Constance (Highest drugs deaths in Europe)
Lorna Slater (Bottle return shambles), Himza ( fall aff my scooter) Yousaf, Angus Robertson ( census shambles rest of UK managed it on time despite covid), Neil Gray ( Ukraine refugees stick them on a cruise ship f**k up because they haven’t been matched with people willing to take them), or Jenny Gilruth ( who?) for any of them ...


Keep the cringe coming
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Thu 14 Jul 12:08

Quote:

Parboiled, Wed 13 Jul 22:37

I wouldn’t swap Angela Constance (Highest drugs deaths in Europe)
Lorna Slater (Bottle return shambles), Himza ( fall aff my scooter) Yousaf, Angus Robertson ( census shambles rest of UK managed it on time despite covid), Neil Gray ( Ukraine refugees stick them on a cruise ship f**k up because they haven’t been matched with people willing to take them), or Jenny Gilruth ( who?) for any of them ...


I`m sure they`d all take that as a huge complement.

It says a lot when even the most fervent Tory would rather have the SNP in Holyrood than any of the contenders for leadership of his own party.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower  
Date:   Thu 14 Jul 12:49

One difficulty all the candidates have is they have to appeal to 3 different electorates – the parliamentary party, the party membership and the country as a whole, who might have different views on what they want.

A second problem is they have had very limited time to differentiate themselves from the others, and there is the risk that if they do so too early they will might get picked off. I get the feeling that there is a lot of second guessing going on, with people trying to think one or two rounds ahead and trying to ensure their candidate is facing the “right” opponent. But party elections are what political hacks live for, and those “in the bubble” will be enjoying all the hoop-la enormously.

As a whole, the Tory party has largely become a nationalist and populist party which would traditionally mean proposing simplistic solutions and blaming others; it has lost many “One Nation” Tories, and Boris Johnson, as is typical of a weak leader, has filled his cabinet with yes men and women which IMO is never a recipe for competent government.

With any top job one might be looking for a candidate with character, vision, experience and intelligence.

Sunak might have been a shoe-in a couple of years ago after his handling of the pandemic, but the rest seem to be ganging up on him with regard to his tax-rises.

Mordaunt has risen slightly without trace – I expect her to be targeted by the other candidates, at least indirectly.

Truss has had her eye on the top job for ages, and is suddenly having to come up with some sort of “economic policy” that is different to Sunak’s. She seems to have a tendency of swaying with the wind.

Badenoch is a complete surprise, and at a glance her campaign seems to be based largely on a catchy slogan.

Braverman seems ambitious but slightly dim, and the sort of person who manages “up the way” rather than “down the way” in that she seems to do what her bosses want, not what might be right, or best for those she’s managing.

Tugendhat is an interesting character. A few years ago, I asked a Labour peer of my acquaintance who was one to look out for in terms of a future Tory leader. A year or so later I asked a Lib Dem peer the same question – both independently named Tugendhat. A bit of an outsider, he’s putting a lot of his chips on his defence experience.

The surprise for me has been the poor showing of Javid (and to a lesser extent Hunt and Zahawi) all of whom must have been secretly planning this for years, and have been bombed out already. It does show how random the process can be.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 14 Jul 14:26

Since you brought it up, why do you think Scotland has the highest rate of drugs deaths in Europe Parboiled? I`ll pass it on to the folk doing the consultation - I`m sure they would be delighted to receive your wisdom on the matter.

Interestingly though, the best response has been from Labour, with John Sweeney in particular pushing forward some new, to Scotland, ideas like safe consumption rooms (which they call "overdose prevention centres")

There are also ongoing plans to completely reorganise the Scottish Drugs Death Forum which has been rightly criticised for failure to take into account the views of those with lived experience.

So there`s definitely space for people to get involved with that particular issue. Parboiled is right to point out that the SG`s response so far has been poor so it is important that the consultations on how the new response will work gets it right and doesn`t descend into political squabbling this time, because people are dying at an alarming rate.

EDIT: Paul Sweeney, Not John Swinney!!



Post Edited (Thu 14 Jul 14:31)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Thu 14 Jul 15:28

I don’t know why Scotlands drug deaths are the highest in the Uk.
Or alcohol deaths the same.
Or smoking the same
Or why two ferries are rusting away before they have carried any passengers.yet we build all the Royal Navy’s frigates and destroyers plus the two biggest aircraft carriers the UK has ever had. So the skills are there, as long as these eejits in scotgov are not involved
Or why we alone could not do a census last year because of Covid, yet England, Wales and NI managed fine with a higher compliance rate. Just to be different?
Or why we grandstand as a super sponsor for Ukrainian refugees then have to suspend it when it descends into a farce with them getting offloaded onto a cruise ship that will cost a fortune to hire.

Do you?

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 14 Jul 19:30

Smoking, drugs and alcohol deaths are all strongly linked with deprivation levels. I`d argue the Scottish Government has tinkered around the edges with things like free school meals but there needs to be massive change to lift people out of deprivation and reduce health inequalities.

The Ferries debacle is another massive failure. One I believe is a direct result of clueless people within the SNP (not the Scottish Government) advising what they want.

One thing to remember, the SNP would not be the ruling party in an independent Scotland. They, along with Alba, would instantly become irrelevant.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: red-star-par  
Date:   Thu 14 Jul 20:53

I`m not sure the SNP will become irrelevant when independence inevitably does happen, Jake. In Nicola Sturgeon they have leader who is not just streets ahead of anyone in Scotland but on a different level to anyone in the UK Government as well. They have done well in running the Scottish Government (with both hands tied behind their backs by Westminster) and that`s obviously recognised by the public who keep voting for them in greater and greater numbers
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 14 Jul 21:17

The stock Tory answer to any talk of a referendum is drugs, education and ferries. For a while Johnson was claiming NHS Scotland was a disgrace with no evidence to back it up but I notice he didn`t mention it yesterday, maybe because, despite its shortcomings, it consistently outperforms the NHS elsewhere in the UK. A recent analysis by a coalition of poverty charities concluded that child poverty in Scotland was the lowest in the UK but it was hardly reported in MSM.

Are the education stats as bad as is implied and isn`t drugs policy only partly devolved? On ferries maybe the SNP should have consulted Chris Grayling who famously awarded a ferry contract to a company with no relative experience at all.

The performance on devolved areas in other parts of the UK is never mentioned when police and health are discussed yet the Met police is a shambles and there have been numerous hospital scandals down south.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Thu 14 Jul 21:34

Quote:

red-star-par, Thu 14 Jul 20:53

I`m not sure the SNP will become irrelevant when independence inevitably does happen, Jake. In Nicola Sturgeon they have leader who is not just streets ahead of anyone in Scotland but on a different level to anyone in the UK Government as well. They have done well in running the Scottish Government (with both hands tied behind their backs by Westminster) and that`s obviously recognised by the public who keep voting for them in greater and greater numbers


Streets ahead you seriously believe that.

https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2022/07/13/no-to-stalins-scotland-4/[\url]
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 14 Jul 21:43

Double post

Post Edited (Thu 14 Jul 21:55)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 14 Jul 21:55

I understand the desire to compare the performance of the Scottish Government with that of Westminster, but we should be aiming higher than that. The Scottish Government has sold itself on being innovative and socially progressive and yet we are no further forward in dealing with issues such as addiction and inequality.

Health, and therefore addiction, are devolved matters and the Scottish Government is tasked with dealing with them.

I get that are legacy issues which predate devolution and were therefore caused by decades of Westminster neglect, but they have now been SNP government responsibilities for quite some time and, as a frontline worker faced with the realities of this I can say with no doubt that there is no light at the end of this tunnel: Scotland will be winning this sad race for some time to come as things stand.

Fake Valium ( street benzos) are the death trap of choice amongst the deprived and socially excluded in Scotland these days. The pills are often made in a council flat in some wee town using a psychoactive powder imported form China and using pill presses bought off Amazon. The deadly aspect is a mix of the fact that they take a while to kick in (meaning new folk take more because they assume it didn`t work (I did that with acid once...)) and the way it`s made which can lead to lumps of active ingredient in one pill which lead to a scenario where there is essentially one or two fatal pills in each batch of ten or twenty thousand.

There is definitely a cultural aspect to it though - especially in Edinburgh where injecting is the done thing so legal highs were a bigger deal here because they were being smoked everywhere else but injected in Edinburgh.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 14 Jul 22:40

I defer to your knowledge on drugs policy, Wotsit, but I thought there were aspects of it that came under Westminster control. I can`t imagine it`s an area where outcomes are going to improve quickly but, if child poverty in Scotland is now the lowest in the UK, hopefully this will be reflected in improvements in health and drugs addiction in years to come.

I think it`s perfectly legitimate to compare performance in devolved responsibilities with other parts of the UK. It provides some context to see how we`re doing compared with others in similar situations. I wouldn`t be too happy if one of my neighbours criticised the state of my garden if I knew his own garden was an absolute tip.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 15 Jul 08:54

The Scottish Government can tinker on things like drugs but couldn`t, for example, decriminalise drugs, which is exactly what should happen.

Nicola Sturgeon is a very good politician. That doesn`t mean she`s very good at leading Scotland though. Politicians are effectively just mouth pieces. My experience of Scottish ministers is that they`re a pain in the backside. They`re not really that interested in the report or policy unless it strongly evidences something they`re saying.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 15 Jul 10:29

I don`t understand your last two sentences, jake. Are you referring to direct experience of dealing with Scottish ministers or are you just basing your observations on what you see and read in the media? Are you saying that these faults are unique to Scottish ministers?

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Fri 15 Jul 14:01

I posted about Portugal`s success on tackling drug deaths ages ago and there`s a good update on what they did here:

https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight

Much of that is what the SNP would like to do but some of it is illegal under UK law. If anyone really cares about drugs deaths as much as they claim to then independence is the only way to give the Scottish Government the powers they need to save lives.

On the boats front..

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/royal-navy-destroyers-engine-problems-in-port-russia-ukraine-b981191.html
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Fri 15 Jul 14:34

The Scottish Government can do much more than they are doing. They could be crying from the rafters about the need to decriminalise or legalise drugs but they don`t want to do that. They have not made any statement regarding their support of legalisation so it has to be assumed that their preferred option does not include changes to the legal status of any substances.

They could also have long ago instigated some of the policies which are only now being offered as options.

Finally, the SG operates within the same legal framework as all other UK regions, with an additional degree of freedom not afforded most areas of the UK, and yet we are, by a long way, doing worse than anybody else. Westminster definitely has to shoulder some of the blame, but so does the SG.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 15 Jul 15:57

Working with them, wee eck. I`ve no experience of ministers in other countries so can`t compare, but our ones are not as competent as I`d hope.

Judging based on what I see in the media, I`d suggest most of the main people in Westminster appear to be utterly hopeless. Perhaps it`s just politicians in general?
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 15 Jul 16:20

Interesting; I`ve always been surprised at how often ministers are moved from one cabinet post to another. It`s as if they are merely figureheads rather than being particularly expert in their field. I suppose communication is a big part of their job.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Fri 15 Jul 16:44

Don`t know why TV companies are going overboard in their coverage of this "contest "it`s not as if the general public are going to have their say!
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 15 Jul 16:54

It`s quickly overtaken the cost of living crisis, Ukraine and Covid as the top story - all these matters which had to take precedence over a second referendum on Scottish independence.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 15 Jul 17:02

Quote:

wee eck, Fri 15 Jul 16:20

Interesting; I`ve always been surprised at how often ministers are moved from one cabinet post to another. It`s as if they are merely figureheads rather than being particularly expert in their field. I suppose communication is a big part of their job.


I think that`s part of the issue - making decisions on things they have little experience of. My impression is they have quite set attitudes and attempt to skew the information provided to suit their own narrative.

My understanding is the ferries decisions were made despite advisors being clear they were ordering the wrong type of ferry.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower  
Date:   Fri 15 Jul 18:26

Don`t know why TV companies are going overboard in their coverage of this "contest "it`s not as if the general public are going to have their say!

One might have thought that the identity of the next PM would be a matter of some interest, particularly when there is not a lot else happening on the political front, and there are dozens of hacks who have column inches or broadcast minutes to fill. There will be plenty of time to cover other issues later.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 15 Jul 18:47

`Now is not the time` - unless it relates to the continuance of the `precious union`.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Fri 15 Jul 19:06

Quote:

McCaig`s Tower, Fri 15 Jul 18:26

Don`t know why TV companies are going overboard in their coverage of this "contest "it`s not as if the general public are going to have their say!

One might have thought that the identity of the next PM would be a matter of some interest, particularly when there is not a lot else happening on the political front, and there are dozens of hacks who have column inches or broadcast minutes to fill. There will be plenty of time to cover other issues later.


Ain`t of any interest to me, all cheeks af the same erse!
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Fri 15 Jul 19:08

I have absolutely no idea why they are broadcasting these debates. Only 358 people are allowed to vote for them. That`s about the same as the home attendances of Edinburgh City, and I didn`t see broadcasters falling over each other to show their matches live during the pandemic.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Fri 15 Jul 20:13

Sorry but MT nails it. This is going to decide who is the next Prime Minister of the country we live in. Why wouldn`t they broadcast these debates? Its ultimately going to be the 180 thousand plus members of the Conservative Party that decide winner not the 300 odd mps.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 15 Jul 20:27

It`s quite entertaining watching Tories have a pop at each other!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Fri 15 Jul 22:45

I understand that it is the tory members that will choose, but surely they could have waited until Wednesday when they will be down to 2. Or even better they could just wait until September 7th and broadcast PMQs.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Fri 15 Jul 22:53

160,000 members will select the next clown for PM, that is 0.3% of the UK electorate!
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 15 Jul 23:30

Scotland, Wales and N Ireland didn`t rate a mention at all in tonight`s debate. There were a few `I love my country` statements though so presumably we`re part of that.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Sat 16 Jul 08:22

On the other hand oor Elsie never shuts up aboot England and Wales at FMQ’s!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 16 Jul 09:46

No apostrophe is required in a plural. No doubt you`ll be telling us it`s down to the poor standard of your Scottish education.

Where did the nickname `Elsie` come from by the way? Unionists seem to love making them up, just like schoolkids in the playground.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Sat 16 Jul 10:49

Well spoted, mist apillowgise, my use of apothecary’s is usually unpeckible.

I had an excellent schooling ta, this was in the days when Scottish education was highly regarded world wide. We don’t know how it is rated now in international terms as we have pulled out of some of the international surveys. Having said that, kids seem happy enough and don’t get leathered for forgetting a bit of homework or because the teacher has a hangover.

As for Elsie, as in Elsie the Selfie , this is derived from her penchant for elbowing herself into the personal space of the great and the good for self promoting snaps.
She also employs the fallback position that anything that goes wrong is invariably the fault of someone “elsie”.

Take your pick.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 16 Jul 11:38

Thanks for the information. If `Elsie` rhymed with `Selfie` I might have guessed it. I thought a `selfie` was a photo you took of yourself, sometimes in the company of others. All participants are usually complicit in the exercise. With these two reservations, I applaud your ingenuity.

Do you have any nicknames for unionist politicians?

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Sat 16 Jul 13:19

I`ve got one that`s even better than Elsie the Selfie.
Mark Francois the Utter C*** of a Man.

It nearly rhymes, and it`s clever because it combines the fact that he is a man with the fact that he is an utter c***.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 16 Jul 14:01

To be fair, most unionist politicians don`t need a nickname. For example, DRoss speaks for himself.

I see `Elsie` is at the Open today. I feel for all these unsuspecting punters who are going to be forced into taking a selfie with her.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Sat 16 Jul 15:01

No need to applaud my ingenuity, I’m not clever enough for that. Dross is masterful btw.
Anyway she will right at home in St Andrews. A hotbed of anti UK insurrection.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 18 Jul 12:17

There`s now talk of cancelling the next debate on Sky after last night`s blood-letting. I wonder if there was as much argument as that during Johnson`s Cabinet meetings.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 18 Jul 12:59

Sky debate cancelled!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 18 Jul 13:48

Quote:

wee eck, Mon 18 Jul 12:17

There`s now talk of cancelling the next debate on Sky after last night`s blood-letting. I wonder if there was as much argument as that during Johnson`s Cabinet meetings.


What happened? I`ve been ignoring it as I don`t see how any of them would be any better than the guy they`re replacing. All Tories.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 18 Jul 15:53

It`s all documented in the media, jake, and is why they have cancelled the scheduled Sky debate. My favourite moment was when Sunak questioned Truss`s credentials by asking her which she regretted most in her personal history, being a Liberal or being anti-Brexit. Truss gave quite a good answer saying she`d been on a `journey` and (unlike him) hadn`t been born into the Tory party. Her parents had been left-wing activists, she had gone to comprehensive schools and had become aware of the lack of opportunities some kids experienced (some ex-schoolfriends have disputed this perspective). She seemed to be implying that Sunak, the son of a GP and a pharmacist, who won a scholarship to Winchester had enjoyed some privileges others hadn`t.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 18 Jul 20:31

They cancelled a debate because they had a tiff on national TV?

Why are these being broadcast anyway? The public doesn`t vote on the leader.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 18 Jul 20:46

Correct Jake

I think Sky cancelled to save the general public from watching the snake, weasel, mongoose, deer in the headlights, and scorpion make a complete Erse of themselves yet again

I`ll let you make your own mind up as to who is who :-)

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 20 Jul 21:54

So it`ll be either Rishi Sinai or Liz Truss and the bookies have made her favourite. Now it`s gone to the " members" the Little Englanders will win the day. They`ll vote for a woman before voting for a man with the wrong skin tone, I believe.

What a mess. Still, it`s an ill wind though and it could well blow the UK apart when Indy2 takes place......



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 20 Jul 22:39

Indy2 will not be allowed by either Sunak or Truss. Or Starmer for that matter. It will be deemed illegitimate. If it goes ahead, then there could be prison sentences for those who organised it.

That will be the moment when we discover if Scotland is prepared to be an independent country. If the people are strong, when the paramilitary police and perhaps the British army occupy the streets, then we will achieve it. We need numbers on the streets.

sammer
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 20 Jul 23:05

At least we can assume Truss knows where Darlington is...
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Wed 20 Jul 23:51

Topic Originator: sammer
Date: Wed 20 Jul 22:39

Indy2 will not be allowed by either Sunak or Truss. Or Starmer for that matter. It will be deemed illegitimate. If it goes ahead, then there could be prison sentences for those who organised it.

That will be the moment when we discover if Scotland is prepared to be an independent country. If the people are strong, when the paramilitary police and perhaps the British army occupy the streets, then we will achieve it. We need numbers on the streets.


There will be a vote one way or another.

SC may rule in favour of Scot gov.

If not then it makes a mockery of this so called Union of equals.

If so then it’s the next GE.

Not sure why Scot gov can’t have a vote of no confidence in themselves, dissolve Holyrood, recall all MP’s from WM and have a Scot gov election.

Majority vote for pro Indy parties…… job done.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 21 Jul 00:37

It has hardly been reported but the Supreme Court has rejected the UK government`s claim that they should not even consider the proposed Scottish government legislation because it`s a Bill rather than an Act. Many commentators were expecting the SG`s case to be dismissed at this first hurdle.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Thu 21 Jul 00:59

desperado,

I don`t see a General Election as any answer at all. The UK state can claim, with some justification, that every vote was a vote for the legitimacy of the Westminster parliament. Much as Johnson claims he had a mandate of 14 million votes. It`s a dead end.

Any subsequent Scottish government election would not be recognised by the UK state. I`m not sure how the EU would respond.

sammer
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 21 Jul 10:38

So we`ve got Truss who thinks she`s Maggie Thatcher and Sunak who lives in a world totally detached from the common person on the street.

God help us!😱😫🙈🙏
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 21 Jul 11:24

Let be honest, almost every political leader is detached from the problems of those they wish to lead.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 21 Jul 16:25

The next two months are going to be a continuous `Party Political Broadcast on behalf of the Conservative and Unionist Party`.

However, `Now Is Not The Time` for another divisive Independence Referendum whilst there are such urgent priorities as the cost of living, Ukraine, Covid, climate change etc. which the public expect us to deal with.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 21 Jul 16:34

I loved the Mirrors headline this morning summing up the candidates :-

Out of the lying man and into the Dire

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Thu 21 Jul 21:58

The Tory Party has always been diverse to be fair.

They had Benjamin Disraeli as their leader in 1868.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 21 Jul 22:13

What was diverse about Disreali?! Wealthy white guy from London.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Thu 21 Jul 22:32

He was of Sephardic Jewish heritage.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 22 Jul 12:36

Quote:

Tad Allagash, Thu 21 Jul 21:58

The Tory Party has always been diverse to be fair.

They had Benjamin Disraeli as their leader in 1868.


The Tory Party "members", who`ll choose the next PM, are not that diverse, tbf.

Mostly, white, male, wealthy, middle class little Englanders, who are not at all keen on these damn Johnny Foreigners. Rishi doesn`t quite fit the mould, so the bookies have made him 2nd favourite in a 2 horse race. Fancy that, eh? 🤔



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Fri 22 Jul 13:34

But the point is, Richie is the ‘posh’ candidate in this contest. He’s far more middle class than Liz Truss and - as Wee Eck pointed out - Liz Truss tried to use that to her advantage in the debate, painting him as an expensively schooled toff whilst she was some sort of scrappy underdog that used to live in Paisley.

Social class is more important than race/religion in England - hence Disraeli.

The real reason he may be unpopular with the membership is that he just got rid of the PM that the members overwhelmingly voted for just 3 years ago. However, the membership must surely realise that Liz Truss isn’t exactly a vote winner, and her remain voting past may haunt her. So it’s not a foregone conclusion.

I suspect you’re right that the membership is not diverse, but this is true of all political parties. What sort of weirdo joins any political party?

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower  
Date:   Fri 22 Jul 14:18

The Tory Party "members", who`ll choose the next PM, are not that diverse, tbf.

Mostly, white, male, wealthy, middle class little Englanders, who are not at all keen on these damn Johnny Foreigners.


Have you any evidence GG?

How diverse is the Tory Party membership compared with the country as a whole or with the parliamentary party? Or with other parties?

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 22 Jul 14:24

C4 News did a bit of a hatchet job last night on Sunak`s attempts to portray himself as the outsider who overcame the odds to establish himself as probably the wealthiest member of the cabinet. He didn`t win a scholarship to Winchester, his parents paid the fees (probably more than the average wage in the UK at the time), his first venture in the London property market was financed by `the bank of Mum and Dad`, and part of his remuneration when he worked in the States consisted of assets held in a tax haven. There was no suggestion this was illegal but it`s a bad look for an ex-Chancellor/prospective Prime Minister.

I`ve no idea what the major consideration of Tory party members is in choosing a leader but, from past experience, I`d say winning a General Election is paramount and that probably means they will favour Truss as they will think her more `sellable` to the electorate.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 22 Jul 15:49

Quote:

McCaig`s Tower, Fri 22 Jul 14:18

The Tory Party "members", who`ll choose the next PM, are not that diverse, tbf.

Mostly, white, male, wealthy, middle class little Englanders, who are not at all keen on these damn Johnny Foreigners.


Have you any evidence GG?

How diverse is the Tory Party membership compared with the country as a whole or with the parliamentary party? Or with other parties?


Here you go, MT :-

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-62138041

Tory membership isn`t very diverse and neither is that of other political parties apparently, but that`s irrelevant in this instance since it`s only the Tory members who`ll be voting.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Fri 22 Jul 16:36

I’d like to see that study including into the greens. I know all my kids who vote x3 and most of their friends allvote Green as they like, not only their Indy position for yes but also their environmental focus.

It feels like it should be a younger more diverse demographic. but maybe they’re not?
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 22 Jul 17:37

I`m not in the younger group (under 40 but I don`t consider myself young!) but I vote Green. Still things I disagree with in their manifestos but they feel a better option than Labour or the SNP. Couldn`t pay me to vote Tory. Scum of the Earth IMO.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Fri 22 Jul 18:22

You vote Green and complain about petrol prices? I’m confused.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 22 Jul 22:00

Quote:

Tad Allagash, Fri 22 Jul 18:22

You vote Green and complain about petrol prices? I’m confused.


Yes, because I am effectively forced to drive as consecutive governments have failed to adequately invest in public transport infrastructure. Believe me, I much preferred taking the bus to work when I lived in Edinburgh than I do having to drive in Fife. The bus service is appalling and is worse now than it was when I was a kid.

The green party aren`t banning cars. They`re promoting active travel and improved public transport. Also reforming planning policy to encourage sustainable communities rather than the current nonsense of building massive housing estates with no local facilities.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Sat 23 Jul 00:04

Jake I`m not being argumentative here but is the bus service really worse now than you were a kid? You wouldn`t have been taking the bus to work as a kid so how would you know?
I`d love it if public transport was in such a good state that it took me from near my house to near my work and back again at the unsocial hours I work. Alas it would be bus doing a trip where I`d probably be the only person on board. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your circumstances) once the electric car revolution takes hold private transport will only be for the middle classes with easy access to home charging points. I dread to think how the masses will do a supermarket shop when they have to rely on public transport. Hauling half a dozen packed `bags for life` to the bus shelter while those more deserving breeze past in their Teslas.

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sat 23 Jul 08:29

My mum didn`t drive so I remember it well. I also got the bus to school each morning (not the school bus). In the area I was brought up it went from coming right round the estate every 15 minutes to only going down the main road every half hour. It was also cheaper (even taking into account inflation) than it is now.

I`ve obviously been spoilt by experiencing years of Lothian Buses (publicly owned) where you could have infinite travel anywhere in Edinburgh for £50-60p/m. New buses and extensive routes.

The service to some of the villages around Dunfermline is appalling despite being heavily subsidised. I imagine an issue is lack of use, but that lack of use comes from poor timetabling and cost. A bus that gets in at 9:05 when most people start at 9:00 is hopeless.

Take a look at the plans for North Dunfermline. The first priority isn`t making safe areas with local shops (for local people) or ensuring easy access to facilities. The first priority is building a road that will cut through the top of Townhill, through the loch and across Kingseat Road. This is effectively a bypass. The worst bit is that a lot of it will be built over an existing off-road cycling and walking route. Fife Council are bonkers. If you enjoy walking round the loch with your kids then good luck when the equivalent of Halbeath Road is running through it.

Edited to add - I'm far from convinced that electric cars are the solution to environmental issues. I'm not one to hark to the past, but there was a time where having two (or more!) cars on the driveway was a luxury. Now it's the norm. Electric cars just move the pollution elsewhere. They're still using a finite resource (lithium) and the pollution still exists albeit at a power station rather than the exhaust pipe. They still have a carbon footprint like all cars do. All those electrics, metal, plastic, glass. I'll bet there are plenty of perfectly good cars being scrapped to encourage people to buy newer cars to keep the industry going too.

Post Edited (Sat 23 Jul 08:37)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower  
Date:   Sat 23 Jul 12:26

Thanks for the link GG – interesting data although a little light on attitudes to “Johnny Foreigner”

Back to the election – I agree that there will unquestionably be a lot of second guessing going on. Selectors may personally prefer one candidate but think that the less enlightened will need the election of other candidate to be persuaded to vote the right way in a later election. There seems to be a little bit of an obsession with the “Red Wall” which may not be so relevant in 2 year’s time.

In a cabinet determined principally on loyalty neither candidate has had much opportunity to differentiate themselves hitherto.

Thus I would expect them to project a simplified version of themselves, generally highlighting two or maybe three characteristics at least one of which will be thinly disguised as meaning “different to the other guy”.

For Truss these may be “Gets things done”, “Will cut taxes” “Ordinary” (i.e. not a posh boy).

Sunak may go on “Prudent Financial management” “controlling borders” “true blue Thatcherite. ”. We shall see – however, it may be a couple of years before the next election and there is an argument that whoever takes over has some time to turn things round and de-Borisify the party.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Sat 23 Jul 13:02

I don’t do Twitter, but I’ve been told Stagecoach do updates on cancelled services for East coast. Lack of drivers, staff off sick etc., quite a daily toll and not just local routes, also x55: x52, 747 and so on.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 23 Jul 14:00

So the vote is open to Conservative party members that live abroad, time for a General Election!!!
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Sat 23 Jul 14:36

General elections are also open to UK citizens living abroad though.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 23 Jul 15:04

Quote:

McCaig`s Tower, Sat 23 Jul 12:26

Thanks for the link GG – interesting data although a little light on attitudes to “Johnny Foreigner”.


Perhaps I should have used The term, "ethnic minorities" rather than "Johnny Foreigners".



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 23 Jul 17:48

Quote:

Tad Allagash, Sat 23 Jul 14:36

General elections are also open to UK citizens living abroad though.


As long as they were on the electoral register within the last 15 years.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sat 23 Jul 20:36

The idea that currently unused public transport routes would remain unused if the service were to improve does not stand up to scrutiny.

Take somewhere like Switzerland, a mountainous nation where about 50% of the population lives in village sized communities. A place with extensive, reliable, affordable and fully integrated transport which efficiently gets the Swiss population to and from work every day.

People also talk about the freedom of a car, but I know for a fact that I`d feel more free if I was casually reading the football in the Metro of a morning than I would if I was fighting Edinburgh traffic.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 23 Jul 21:53

We seem to have two threads running in parallel here!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 26 Jul 09:33

Well, any Tory party Par`s supporters (apart from Ruthy) going to tell us which way it`s going to go?

Hopefully it`ll be a draw and be decided by pistols at dawn, where they`ll both kill each other!

Anyway, what a *hitfest!🙈💩💩💩

I blame Joe Chalmers!🤣
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 26 Jul 23:20

Truss is 1/4 with the bookies which is a pretty strong favourite odds wise and I wouldn`t be surprised if she got in. Hopefully she`s out again before she does too much damage.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 27 Jul 16:57

Quote:

londonparsfan, Tue 26 Jul 23:20

Truss is 1/4 with the bookies which is a pretty strong favourite odds wise and I wouldn`t be surprised if she got in. Hopefully she`s out again before she does too much damage.


I`m thinking Sunak might make a better fist of the job than the imbecile currently in post, so it might be better for Truss to get in and prove so hopeless that the Tories will lose the next election. 🙂

Eta. How can any right minded individual believe she is PM material? The bookies must know the Tory members will never vote in an ethnic minority candidate.🙁



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Wed 27 Jul 17:00)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 27 Jul 19:49

I`d hope you`re right mate but the jingoism she peddles appeals to quite a few folk unfortunately.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Wed 27 Jul 22:44

I`m not entirely sure if Truss is genuinely as stupid as she comes across, or if there is actually a capable person behind the wooden exterior.

I watched a bit of the BBC thing from a couple of days ago - it seemed to be quite poorly chaired, with Sunak given license to trample over her, really just because he`s more comoftable in that setting. While I`d prefer him to win as he seems the more competent of the two, he was very irritating to the point of being unpleasant.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Wed 27 Jul 23:25

I dislike them both immensely. That whole cabal are nothing but a bunch of self serving corrupt goons.

They have completely forgotten that they actually work for us.

LT said recently that she was against the NI increase and argued against it but when push came to shove she voted for it…..why? Because she is a very loyal person..’.her words not mine.

So she is loyal to her party/government first and foremost and to hell with the consequences her constituents might suffer….the very people who elected her.

Her loyalty is misplaced then but it sums her and the rest of them up.

They don’t care a jot for the majority of people in the country but only for themselves and their wealthy friends and Tory party donors.

I hope Truss wins though as she will be worse than Boris, the cringe factor and the comedy value will be immense and I am convinced she will push up support for independence which is sitting at 58% according to GB news.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Thu 28 Jul 07:34

Even Neil Oliver is sporting Saltire earrings now!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 28 Jul 09:52

Labour sacking an MP for going on a picket line???

Sarwar won`t know which way to look!

Does Starmer not realise he`s supposed to be the opposition?🤔🤬🤬🤬
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Thu 28 Jul 12:27

Starmer is an establishment plant. Blair was too. It does not mean that Labour cant win the next election but it makes it nigh on impossible. Imagine having a Sir as leader of the opposition.

Starmer is a red tory. There is no Labour party anymore. In name only but it means nothing.

We will have Tory rule for years and years to come. Possibly forever.

Think of the damage they will do if they have another ten years.

Unions will be completely neutered. Right to withdraw Labour will be outlawed.
Fire and re-Hire will be the norm.
Zero hour contracts/gig economy will be the norm.
Protest will be outlawed.
NHS will be more or less gone.
Gap between rich and poor will increase further.
Poverty will increase
Workers rights will be...well gone. All the rights gained by people power/protest, workers going on strike to demand better pay and conditions, rights gained by being in the EU.......All of them will be gone by the end of this decade. They will have taken back control..as they promised.
Scotland`s parliament will be neutered.....without consulting our democratically elected MSP`s or indeed the people.
UK Gov will centralize power and roll back devolution without our consent.

Scotland better get out of this s#*t show soon.......... or it is goobye Scotland and hello Scotlandshire.....

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Thu 28 Jul 12:43

Labour record over last eleven General Elections - lost, lost, lost, lost
Blair, Blair, Blair, lost, lost, lost, lost. Blair, who never cosied up to the TUC, would have likely won a fourth if he hadn’t been stabbed in the back by Brown.

Starmer isn’t daft, he won’t win folk over by standing on a picket line with honking hypocrites who purport to be standing up for the working class while ruining their fellow workers’ holidays, disrupting their commute to place of employment, leisure activities, hospital visits, etc etc.



Post Edited (Thu 28 Jul 12:46)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Thu 28 Jul 13:03

Desperado, that’s some Doomsday list mate!

Meanwhile in the real world, we again have just announced the worst drug deaths in Europe with the same preventative powers that England has, cannae build two basic ferries, and hire a ferry because Sturgeon invited unlimited Ukraine refugees with no plan to house them, and Edinburgh authorities are tearing their hair out over how to school the kids, provide GP care, etc

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 28 Jul 15:39

Meanwhile, south of the border, everything`s tickety-boo!

NHS Scotland has its shortcomings but it consistently outperforms the NHS in other parts of the UK. A recent survey by a charity coalition concluded that Scotland had the lowest rate of child poverty in the UK and I saw an editor of a Lancashire newspaper on TV the other night lamenting the fact that NW England had the highest rate. Scottish universities always feature prominently in tables of tertiary educational establishments but that`s never mentioned when education is assessed.

The SNP has few friends in the Scottish media and that`s reflected in the coverage it gets.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Thu 28 Jul 16:13

Quote:

desparado, Thu 28 Jul 12:27

Starmer is an establishment plant. Blair was too. It does not mean that Labour cant win the next election but it makes it nigh on impossible. Imagine having a Sir as leader of the opposition.

Starmer is a red tory. There is no Labour party anymore. In name only but it means nothing.

We will have Tory rule for years and years to come. Possibly forever.

Think of the damage they will do if they have another ten years.

Unions will be completely neutered. Right to withdraw Labour will be outlawed.
Fire and re-Hire will be the norm.
Zero hour contracts/gig economy will be the norm.
Protest will be outlawed.
NHS will be more or less gone.
Gap between rich and poor will increase further.
Poverty will increase
Workers rights will be...well gone. All the rights gained by people power/protest, workers going on strike to demand better pay and conditions, rights gained by being in the EU.......All of them will be gone by the end of this decade. They will have taken back control..as they promised.
Scotland`s parliament will be neutered.....without consulting our democratically elected MSP`s or indeed the people.
UK Gov will centralize power and roll back devolution without our consent.

Scotland better get out of this s#*t show soon.......... or it is goobye Scotland and hello Scotlandshire.....


Sturgeon is also an establishment plant .

What has she done to bring Independence over the last 8 years ?

Post Edited (Thu 28 Jul 16:14)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Thu 28 Jul 17:27

Well 2 years ago, Nicola said she was close to eliminating Coronavirus from Scotland, so that will relieve the pressure on the NHS. Any day now I expect 😂😂😂

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Fri 29 Jul 12:08

Topic Originator: Parboiled
Date: Thu 28 Jul 13:03

Desperado, that’s some Doomsday list mate!

Meanwhile in the real world, we again have just announced the worst drug deaths in Europe with the same preventative powers that England has, cannae build two basic ferries, and hire a ferry because Sturgeon invited unlimited Ukraine refugees with no plan to house them, and Edinburgh authorities are tearing their hair out over how to school the kids, provide GP care, etc

Care to bet that almost everything on that list will come to pass ?

Tell me what`s is on the list that you are confident will not happen......

Ah the ferries.. again. Scot gov does not build ferries mate........fabrication yards do. Scot gov have certainly made errors here, however they did save a yard from going bust and save hundreds of jobs. So its not all bad news. Basic ferries ? Are they designed to run on hydrogen ? Sure I read that some where. The design was changed time and time again and FM just kept agreeing - no Variation orders. The cost spiraled and they went bust.

A quick google shows that the UK has taken in 95000 Ukranian refugees and Scotland has taken 7000 - that looks pretty close to a population share.

So are you advocating that we don`t take our fair share ?

You and your kind bang on and on about a couple of hundred million, meanwhile UK gov has squandered billions on the Ajax personnel carriers, destroyers whose engines don`t operate in warm water, Carriers with no aircraft......billions wasted and that`s before we add on the billions more wasted during the covid pandemic.

Drug deaths are terrible....I am obviously no expert but it is not as simple as laying all the blame at Scot gov`s door. I read a report recently that explained the many complex reasons why Scotland has this particular problem.....it goes back decades. Safe consumption rooms would help but UK gov don`t want to do anything to help as they see it as another political football to kick SNP with.

Drug deaths and alcohol related deaths are rocketing in England too by the way.
Stabbings and violent crime rocketing in England. Fallen dramatically in Scotland since SNP came to power

You are always on here banging on about SNP Scot gov whilst conveniently ignoring the most corrupt incompetent government in history that reside in WM .A government that you would be more than happy to make all our decisions for us whilst we just sit meekly back and keep our fingers crossed hoping that they really do care about Scotland and the well being of our citizens.

Anyone who has been paying attention realizes that they don`t care a jot.



Post Edited (Fri 29 Jul 12:15)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Fri 29 Jul 13:09

Let`s be frank - no avoidable death is acceptable, but the level of drug deaths in Scotland is a disgrace and has gone up each year under the SNP. I`m not suggesting it`s down to them, but they`ve been ineffective in making a difference.

Safe consumption rooms are one way of helping reduce the rates but that doesn`t tackle the route cause, which is usually related to poverty and the environment people live in. Drug use isn`t much different to smoking or alcohol in that you need to understand WHY people abuse substances in order to then discourage these behaviours in the first place.

I`m no expert but I`d imagine the awful mental health support in Scotland isn`t helping in terms of drug deaths either.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Fri 29 Jul 13:41

Angela is the Minister for Drugs policy.

In a party littered with thickos she’s one of the dimmest. Recall seeing her being interviewed by Gordon Brewer on the Sunday Morning politics show. She realised an answer she gave was incomprehensible and and asked for a re run…the penny dropped “ oh wir oan live Gordon?”

Yes dearie been like that for years!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 29 Jul 13:47

If you want to personalise it, Dorries could give her a run for her money.



Post Edited (Fri 29 Jul 13:49)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Parboiled  
Date:   Fri 29 Jul 13:55

Dorries has writed books. Constance cannae read an auto cue..

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 29 Jul 14:04

Dorries decided to go on `I`m a Celebrity...` when she should have been in parliament representing her constituents. She`d probably have difficulty reading an autocue too as she`s dyslexic but that doesn`t excuse a lot of her gaffes.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 29 Jul 15:19

It`s not like dotnet to veer so far off topic. 😃

I wonder why someone who has consistently polled fewer votes than her opponent be such a strong favourite with the bookies?

I`d be delighted to hear any plausible explanation not involving race or skin tone.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Fri 29 Jul 15:20

Dorries getting an honour in BJ`s retiral list, moving to the House of Lords and BJ getting her safe seat.

Building up to another attempt as PM!

Where does this hell lead?
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Fri 29 Jul 17:53

GG - your original post suggested that the MPs would never vote for Sunak. That’s been proved wrong, and now the goal posts seem to have moved to the membership.

No one is talking about skin tone. A more plausible explanation is that he is a young metropolitan politician with fancy designer suits responsible for the furlough scheme. Tory members (and voters) tend not to be metropolitan. And the furlough scheme was the least conservative policy ever offered by a Tory chancellor.

I suspect the bookies are right, but they also had Hillary Clinton to beat Trump and Remain to beat Leave, so I’ll still wait and see.

The pars are the bookies’ favourites for League 1. I’m not celebrating just yet!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 29 Jul 19:18

Quote:

Tad Allagash, Fri 29 Jul 17:53

GG - your original post suggested that the MPs would never vote for Sunak. That’s been proved wrong, and now the goal posts seem to have moved to the membership.

No one is talking about skin tone. A more plausible explanation is that he is a young metropolitan politician with fancy designer suits responsible for the furlough scheme. Tory members (and voters) tend not to be metropolitan. And the furlough scheme was the least conservative policy ever offered by a Tory chancellor.

I suspect the bookies are right, but they also had Hillary Clinton to beat Trump and Remain to beat Leave, so I’ll still wait and see.

The pars are the bookies’ favourites for League 1. I’m not celebrating just yet!


160,000+ mainly white, middle-class 50+ males, voting for a candidate from an ethnic minority group? Maybes aye, maybes naw. The bookies aren`t always right, but they usually are. Clinton did poll more votes than Trump, but they did get Brexit horribly wrong. There`s always an exception that proves the rule.

Thing is, I could understand it if LT was a credible candidate, but she could end up being even worse than Johnson and that`s saying something. She doesn`t come across as being especially smart - happy to be proved wrong, mind you. The last thing the UK needs is another clueless, out of touch PM.

The goalposts have moved to the membership because it's they who are voting now. Perhaps the MPs were happy to vote for Sunak because they know the members will eliminate him in the final round?



Not your average Sunday League player.


Post Edited (Sat 30 Jul 08:24)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 31 Jul 23:34

Dorries has shown her complete lack of tact and judgement again by posting an image of Sunak wielding a knife behind Johnson`s back.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 2 Aug 17:38

Nice to see Liz Truss increasing the will for independence!🤔😎👍
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 2 Aug 17:50

Goodness knows what Truss was thinking of when she said she would have regional pay councils so that public services wages in different parts of the UK would be related to the cost of living in different areas. How would that be compatible with the much-vaunted `levelling-up`?

She seems to be an outright opportunist who will say anything she thinks a particular audience wants to hear with no regard for the repercussions elsewhere. This u-turn and her comments about Nicola Sturgeon have maybe given her potential supporters pause for thought and it seems already that Sunak`s campaign has benefited. Neither of them will be acting in the best interests of working people.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 2 Aug 18:05

Any regional differences would effectively be "London" and "Everyone else".

Truss is clueless. Saying things for the sake of saying them.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 2 Aug 18:48

Do they still have `London weighting` for public service salaries? I`m sure when my sister moved from Fife to London in the 60s with the Civil Service there was a higher rate for the job to reflect the higher cost of living there.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 2 Aug 19:40

I don`t know if it`s all civil service jobs but I saw one recently (may have been HMRC) and there was a supplement if choosing to be based in London rather than Leeds.

I always find this London weighting thing a bit odd as it doesn`t actually solve the issue. It would be like me getting paid more to choose a base in Edinburgh rather than Glasgow as Edinburgh is a lot more expensive for housing.

How would Truss work it? What if I live somewhere like Milton Keynes but my base is London? Or what if I live in London but my base is Milton Keynes?

This is just an excuse to cut wages and doesn`t solve any problem. Right now anyone applying for a civil service job knows the pay. If they felt it wasn`t enough, why would they apply?

Truss knows she needs to cut the number of civil servants back, but that`s because numbers went up a lot during COVID. Most of these will be temporary/contract roles so it shouldn`t be a significant issue. It sounds to me that she`s using this as an excuse to screw civil servants and then public sector employees.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 2 Aug 19:43

Should also say there is no real reason to have civil servants based in expensive places like London whereas medical professionals have little choice. There was supposed to be decentralisation in public/civil but both Westminster and Holyrood appear to have let things slide back to the main cities. Recent examples being HMRC centralising to Edinburgh (previously Edinburgh, West Lothian and somewhere outside Glasgow) and Scottish Water moving from Dunfermline to Glasgow.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Tue 2 Aug 22:15

Truss gives me the fear. Talking through her backside




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 2 Aug 22:19

Firefighters in London are paid more, given because of high housing costs.
Some were living in the North of France and travelling in by Eurotunnel, staying in rented accommodation between shifts. The accommodation was used24/7 by other Firefighters on different shifts (4 on 4 off)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 2 Aug 22:30

Not having a go at fire fighters, but surely subsidising jobs in order to afford London simply makes the problem worse? This country needs rent control and to stop this obsession with property price rises. Of course, nothing will be done as it benefits the wealthy who use property as nice little investments.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 2 Aug 23:28

Civil Service had London rates away back in the 60`s.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 3 Aug 13:44

From the Guardian :-

`A YouGov poll conducted for The Times found that Conservative party members still believe Boris Johnson would make a better prime minister than the two leadership contenders, Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss.

Asked who they thought would make the better prime minister, Truss leads Sunak by 58% to 29%. But throwing Boris Johnson into the ring shows him winning, with 40% saying he would make the best PM, to Truss’s 28% and Sunak’s 23%.

Those who intend to vote for Truss are divided, with 49% backing Johnson compared with 45% who think Truss will be an improvement. By contrast, few Sunak voters are deterred: 76% think the former chancellor would be the better PM, with only 18% switching their vote over to Boris.`


That suggests Truss supporters approve of Johnson`s style of leadership and see her as the obvious candidate to continue it. How depressing.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sat 6 Aug 16:33

Robin Hood robbed the rich to fund the Poor
Rishi Sunak robbed the poor to fund the Rich (admitted it himself)

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 7 Aug 20:21

Liz V Richie :-

The foreign secretary had said she would focus on "lowering the tax burden, not giving out handouts".

Rishi Sunak, her leadership rival, said she was "simply wrong" to rule out more cost of living payments.

Mr Sunak has said the tax proposals would not be a significant help for "people like pensioners or those on low incomes who are exactly the kind of families that are going to need help".

Instead, the former chancellor said he would give more direct help to those hardest hit by inflation.

Question from the audience .. Excuse me Mr. Sunak .. are you now saying the very people you denied aka the pensioners by suspending the triple lock pledge made by your own lying Government are now the very people you are concerned about ?? .. You are a bigger lier than The Brave One

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Sun 7 Aug 21:53

I think Sunak would be better than Truss. ?
More u turns than you’d find driving in Paris

For avoidance of doubt, it’s not a great choice but that Truss talks out of her backside a little too much, even for a slimy MP




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983


Post Edited (Sun 07 Aug 21:54)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 9 Aug 06:11

Quote:

Raymie the Legend, Sun 7 Aug 21:53

I think Sunak would be better than Truss. ?
More u turns than you’d find driving in Paris

For avoidance of doubt, it’s not a great choice but that Truss talks out of her backside a little too much, even for a slimy MP


It would be hard for anyone to be worse than Truss, Raymie, although I thought it would be impossible for the Tories to elect someone worse than the Blustering Buffoon....... Sunak would be better, but the Tory Party members are not going to vote for him in sufficient numbers. (He doesn`t look very "middle English", does he?)

We can only hope she lives down to all expectations and loses the Tories the next General Election.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 10 Aug 11:21

So Liz Truss, who is long odds on to succeed Johnson, doesn`t believe in taxing us so that she can give the money to those most in need? She wants to bring in tax cuts so folk can spend their savings as they see fit.

Better to make tax cuts for all, so that the richest in society will benefit most and those who most need it during the current crisis won`t benefit at all?

What exactly makes anyone vote Tory?



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Wed 10 Aug 11:35

Quote:

GG Riva, Wed 10 Aug 11:21

So Liz Truss, who is long odds on to succeed Johnson, doesn`t believe in taxing us so that she can give the money to those most in need? She wants to bring in tax cuts so folk can spend their savings as they see fit.

Better to make tax cuts for all, so that the richest in society will benefit most and those who most need it during the current crisis won`t benefit at all?

What exactly makes anyone vote Tory?


Greed and selfishness.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 10 Aug 11:47

Could be worse, the current PM could be offering seats in the Lords.

Why does the Lord`s still exist? Unelected job for life where you get paid hundreds of quid per day just for turning up. Joke.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 10 Aug 11:51

It`s a question I`ve often pondered. I think the answer is in the name - conservative. Some people like things the way they are because they work in their favour. Others are seduced by the notion that they can join the elite simply by working hard.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 10 Aug 15:50

Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister, has revealed that, when she met Liz Truss at the Cop26 climate crisis conference in Glasgow last year, one of the main things Truss was interested in was how to get featured in the fashion magazine Vogue. And when Truss learnt that Sturgeon had appeared in it twice already, Truss “looked a little bit as if she’d swallowed a wasp”, Sturgeon said.

She was speaking in a Q&A with the broadcaster Iain Dale, and responding to a question about Truss dismissing Sturgeon recently as an “attention seeker”. The comment attracted considerable controversy, partly because it was a slur against an elected head of government, and partly because Truss is not exactly publicity shy herself.

Sturgeon said when she initially heard about the comment, she thought “it was made up, it was a spoof.” Then she said she met Truss at the Cop26 summit last year, shortly after being interviewed by Vogue. Sturgeon went on:

`That was the main thing she wanted to talk to me about, she wanted to know how she could get into Vogue - and she calls me an attention-seeker. I said to her they came and asked me. I didn’t really mean to do this, but I said to her it hadn’t actually been my first time in Vogue, it had been my second time. It looked a little bit as if she’d swallowed a wasp. I’m sure she’ll be in Vogue before too long.

`I remember it because there we were at the world’s biggest climate change conference in Glasgow, world leaders about to arrive. That was the main topic of conversation she was interested in pursuing. And once we’d exhausted that it kind of dried up. I’m sure we’ll have many more conversations about many more substantive things.`

Asked about her dealings with previous Tory leaders, Sturgeon said:

`I think, perhaps uncharitably, I described my conversations with Theresa May when she was prime minister as being soul destroying. I look back somewhat fondly now on that. At least May took the job of being prime minister seriously,` Sturgeon said. By comparison, dealings with Boris Johnson were “one long bluster”, she said. `You know, he was a third prime minister I’ve dealt with as first minister. It was literally like nothing I’ve ever dealt with before in terms of any senior politician. You know, I’m going to be blunt here, he was a disgrace to the office of prime minister.`

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Sat 13 Aug 23:02

So all I get from that post Wee Eck is that Nicola Sturgeon likes to boast about being in Vogue magazine. Cringeworthy - Trump level narcissism.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 13 Aug 23:39

You see what you want to see, I suppose. You spoiled it by comparing her to Trump though.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Sun 14 Aug 01:26

She travels in a helicopter with her own name on it. The comparison with The Donald seems fair.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 14 Aug 07:34

She got a fish named after her too. What a cow.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Sun 14 Aug 10:03

And a moon - is there no end


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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 14 Aug 12:56

Tad Allagash seems familiar. I strongly suspect that he is one on a line of right wing nutjobs named after characters from 1970s-80s youth TV/cinema.

These individuals are usually very similar in their opinions and in their method of presenting said opinions, to the extent that one might be tempted to surmise that they are secretly all the same person.

But why would this person keep making new accounts with different user names?

If memory serves, one of the first guises (The Third Doctor) of this person disappeared after there was backlash to them reveling that they were a political organiser for the BNP, whilst the others basically flounced off after decrying DotNet as a den of Marxisim and iniquity.

Either way, it`s nice having a Tory or two here lest it ends up like the stadium scene from Life of Brian.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Sun 14 Aug 13:30

Not true Wotsit.

This is the only account I’ve ever had on this forum.

I’ve no idea who those ‘right wing nutjobs’ are. Actually, I’ve no idea who anyone is on this forum in real life.

The account is not named after youth TV - it is 80’s though to be fair.

Criticising Nicola Sturgeon doesn’t make me a Tory in the same way criticising Celtic doesn’t make me a Rangers fan and vice-versa.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 14 Aug 17:34

Whilst I disagree with some comments made, it annoys me no end that some people refuse to accept criticism of the SNP and start all this Tory name-calling at anyone who does. You can want independence but still think the SNP have caused serious issues.

You can also NOT want independence and criticise the SNP.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 14 Aug 18:30

Everyone`s responsible for their own views and how they express them of course but the way our political leaders express themselves doesn`t help.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: hurricane_jimmy  
Date:   Mon 15 Aug 13:25

Kinda interesting though that Mario disappears and then Parbroiled appears. Now Parbroiled disappears and Tad Allagash appears. All three seem to write in a similar style as well.

SNP should not be immune from criticism, particularly on education. I can`t be arsed with some of the dafties in the Independence movement that are ignorant of history, economics and wider geopolitics but often Unionists really struggle to accept the fact that momentum is against them and that their ideology is just outdated.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Mon 15 Aug 15:34

By ‘Parbroiled’, I assume you mean ‘Parboiled’ Jimmy?

Parboiled hasn’t disappeared - they posted about the Dundee Utd game the other day.

I can confirm I’m not Parboiled or anyone else who’s ever posted on here.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 15 Aug 22:33

Weird how we never see you both in the same room? It`s like a budget version of Hannah Montana.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Mon 15 Aug 22:40

Does that mean Billy Ray Cyrus is my dad?

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 15 Aug 22:52

Your dad is Robby Ray Stewart. No idea who this Billy Ray Cyrus is.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Mon 15 Aug 23:14

I do, but only because ‘Achy Breaky Heart’ was played to death at EEP in the early 90’s Jocky Scott glory days. Like we didn’t suffer enough.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 16 Aug 18:48

This is part of Liz Truss`s pitch to Conservative members in Scotland:-

`I will empower the Scottish Parliament with parliamentary privilege to allow for tougher questioning of ministers, sharpening the teeth of MSPs as watchdogs of Nicola Sturgeon’s administration.`

Does that mean MSPs will be able to tell lies in parliament but no one will be able to call them a liar? I can`t see how that`s progress.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Wed 17 Aug 03:09

Quote:

wee eck, Tue 16 Aug 18:48

This is part of Liz Truss`s pitch to Conservative members in Scotland:-

`I will empower the Scottish Parliament with parliamentary privilege to allow for tougher questioning of ministers, sharpening the teeth of MSPs as watchdogs of Nicola Sturgeon’s administration.`

Does that mean MSPs will be able to tell lies in parliament but no one will be able to call them a liar? I can`t see how that`s progress.


It means they can defame someone without fear of prosecution.
It also means if there is a court order forbidding the release of certain information the can say it in Parliament with no consequences. Naming the women granted anonymity in Alex Salmonds sexual harassment case would be an example of where the Tories would like to use parliamentary privilege.
It doesn`t offer more scrutiny it allows the ability to defame and go against orders made by judges.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Wed 17 Aug 06:07

More parliamentary scrutiny can work both ways, the individuals who done a hatchet job on Salmond may have thought twice about their actions If they hadn`t anonymity and then proved to be liars.

Then you`ve got Leslie Evens Involvement in trying to get a process in place to further enhance the Scottish Government`s case to jail Salmond.

How much has that cost the Scottish people? Certainly more than the £512,000 paid to Salmond.

https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2022/08/15/alex-salmond-asks-why/

Post Edited (Wed 17 Aug 08:12)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Wed 17 Aug 11:55

SIF, couldn`t they have just done that in Westminster if that`s what they wanted to do?

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Wed 17 Aug 12:47

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Wed 17 Aug 11:55

SIF, couldn`t they have just done that in Westminster if that`s what they wanted to do?


No as its a Scottish court issued it. Not exempt from a Scottish court order in Westminster.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Wed 17 Aug 16:52

Well that`s surprising. Scottish court orders can hold sway over what mp`s can say in the UK parliament but English courts don`t have that same authority?

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Wed 17 Aug 17:19

Quote:

The One Who Knocks, Wed 17 Aug 16:52

Well that`s surprising. Scottish court orders can hold sway over what mp`s can say in the UK parliament but English courts don`t have that same authority?


Scots law and English law are different.

It's to do with article 9 of the Bill of Rights (1688) which is concerned with freedom of speech in Parliament. Since its from the time of William III it predates Scotland being in the Union.
It is talked about here at paragraph 6.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt199899/jtselect/jtpriv/43/43ap14.htm

Post Edited (Wed 17 Aug 17:28)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: The One Who Knocks  
Date:   Thu 18 Aug 08:54

So much for a union of equals...

And although my eyes were open
They just might as well be closed
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Thu 18 Aug 10:51

Yeah I always thought our place in this union was for it the people of Scotland to decide, but it actually looks like it’s for one person in London who seems to think they can decide!

Regardless of who you vote for, what happened in the past or your position regarding the union… I can’t see how anyone could be happy with a situation where Scotland democratically votes and gives a mandate fora second referendum to be then told by one person we’re not even allowed to ask the question!

We know it cannot possibly be a union of equals due to the demographic disparity, ie for every potential vote in Scotland there are 11 times that number in England… but I’m not sure you could call union if it’s not a voluntary thing.

Again there are people happy with the status quo who will defend the Westminster attitude, but just because it suits them on this particular issue doesn’t mean it’s a healthy situation where Westminster can run roughshod over Scotland’s democratically expressed wishes
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 18 Aug 11:05

I think the SNP`s strategy is to pursue all the constitutional and legal routes to a referendum and, if it transpires they are all unsuccessful, put the emphasis on the basic unfairness of being in what purports to be a voluntary union where the smaller parties have no means of leaving unilaterally. Most fair-minded people would consider that to be untenable.

The union suits the Tories because it allows them to control a part of the UK where they have never won a mandate in any election, whether at local, Scottish or UK level, since the 1950s. Labour can also have this advantage if they can win a big enough majority in England.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Thu 18 Aug 13:16

Yeah, but in an Indy Scotland, the government wouldn’t need to win in Fife to have a majority. So you’d still have the same problem. We’d have the government that Glasgow chooses for us.

It’s a problem in every democracy and not unique to us.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 18 Aug 13:46

Scotland has favoured left of centre governments for the last 70 years or so and that is what we`d get if we were independent. What is the point of being in a union with a much bigger country which is going in a different direction politically?

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Thu 18 Aug 15:00

wee eck wrote:

> Scotland has favoured left of centre governments for the last
> 70 years or so and that is what we`d get if we were
> independent. What is the point of being in a union with a much
> bigger country which is going in a different direction
> politically?
>
>


You’d have to replace ‘Scotland’ with ‘The Central Belt’ for that 1st statement to be true. The Borders and North East have not generally favoured left of centre parties for the last 70 years. So they would need their own referendum to leave an Indy Scotland if we follow this logic.

London voted Corbyn and got Boris. California voted Clinton and got Trump. Universal problem - very few people get what they vote for in any democracy.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 18 Aug 15:19

Scotland is a nation and one of four members of the UK of GB and NI. The Borders, Central Belt, NE Scotland and London are not. They are represented by constituencies in member nations of the UK. Your argument is spurious but sadly typical of the ridiculous lengths unionists will go to just to deny basic democratic rights.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Thu 18 Aug 16:18

Can you define nation? Why’s Scotland a nation and not Fife for example?

Whether Northern Ireland is a nation or not is a question for a separate thread, which I’ll stay well clear of 😀.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 18 Aug 16:41

If you don`t recognise the difference between Scotland and Fife there`s no point in debating the issue. To their credit even the Tories haven`t pursued this argument but maybe they`ll get round to it if they`re desperate.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 18 Aug 17:09

Quote:

Tad Allagash, Thu 18 Aug 13:16

Yeah, but in an Indy Scotland, the government wouldn’t need to win in Fife to have a majority. So you’d still have the same problem. We’d have the government that Glasgow chooses for us.

It’s a problem in every democracy and not unique to us.


It would be partially alleviated by Proportional Representation though assuming that`s what an IS implemented.

The demographics of Scotland have a lot of people needing the dame thing so Glasgow and Fife would probably vote for similar parties that best represented their needs. If anything it would be a discrepancy between rural communities vs Towns and Cities and even then its a smaller population with less inequality compared to the wider UK.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 18 Aug 17:19

So the 2 candidates appeared in Perth this week and were met with angry crowds, Bowie accused protesters of spitting and throwing eggs.

Police Scotland have no reports of any such behaviour!

Meanwhile English exam results come out today, wonder if they will be disected in the same way as the Scottish results were?
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 18 Aug 19:21

I think the SNP are a massive let down on education but I pet peeve of mine is misrepresenting data. On education it`s clear that the divide between rich and poor has narrowed when you compare grades as marked by the SQA. What was reported was it widening, which was probably as a result of the teachers in schools grading the kids last year.

Where possible, all exams should be independently reviewed to avoid any bias. I believe Nat 4s are marked by the teacher and this means they`re not worth the paper they`re written on IMO.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Sun 4 Sep 11:43

In just over 24 hours a selfish, serial liar and political opportunist is going to replaced by a feeble-minded Thatcher cosplayer.
I wouldn`t go a far as saying that the country is f*****, but it is definitely going to wake up one morning and wonder what the hell happened the night before.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 5 Sep 18:16

So the woman who apparently thinks over 50% of the entire Scottish electorate should be required to vote for independence for it to be valid (and only after opinion polls have shown a majority in favour of over 60% for over a year) has effectively been appointed Prime Minister by getting 47.2% of the votes available from an electorate of a mere 172,437 Tory party members. That`s democracy in action.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Mon 5 Sep 18:27

Quote:

wee eck, Mon 5 Sep 18:16

So the woman who apparently thinks over 50% of the entire Scottish electorate should be required to vote for independence for it to be valid (and only after opinion polls have shown a majority in favour of over 60% for over a year) has effectively been appointed Prime Minister by getting 47.2% of the votes available from an electorate of a mere 172,437 Tory party members. That`s democracy in action.


You can also throw in Brexit, wee eck, when only 37.5% of the entire electorate voted Leave and that was deemed sufficient to take us out of the EU.



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Mon 5 Sep 18:33

I`m sure the % of the electorate voting Tory at the last GE was even lower. Still enough for an 80 seat majority though.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 5 Sep 18:37

They keep mentioning this 80-seat majority but it must be a lot less than that now with all the by-elections they`ve lost. Every seat lost takes two off their majority.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 5 Sep 20:16

I agree it should be over 60%. However, that simply isn`t workable. The second it tips over 50% you`ve got a riot.

If Brexit had been on the basis of 60% or 50% of the whole electorate, it may have been accepted.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Mon 5 Sep 20:40

It can’t be, democracy means a majority decision pure and simple…
Anything else and you’re asking, Who gets to set the hurdle? and what is their motivation?
Why should it be set higher for the change and not the status quo? The status quo has had 300 years to convince us, so maybe it needs 60% to continue?
Why should the number of those who don’t vote become counted for one sided of the argument only?

Post Edited (Mon 05 Sep 20:42)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Mon 5 Sep 20:51

Do what they do in Oz, everyone has to vote
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 5 Sep 20:57

Well said, DBP. I`ve never understood why the votes of the apathetic or uninterested should be allocated to one side rather than the other. To allocate them to the status quo seems the epitome of being `conservative`.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 6 Sep 19:22

The usual musical chairs with the cabinet. Continuity doesn`t seem to matter in leading the big departments of government.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Tue 6 Sep 20:04

Regarding Brexit, you have to remember that we joined the Common Market in 1973 with no vote at all. We then had a referendum in 1975 when 43% of the electorate voted to remain. That stood unchallenged for 41 years until it was overturned by 37.5% of the electorate.

So if there was a super majority requirement, then we wouldn’t have left because we wouldn’t have joined in the first place!

There may be an argument for a super majority requirement for a decision that would be irreversible and would impose something on future generations without a way back. I wouldn’t quite put Brexit in that category, as a future government could realistically reverse it assuming the EU would have us back.

Any referendum that results in a 50.1% vs 49.9% wouldn’t settle anything.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 6 Sep 23:43

Worth noting it was the second (or third?) attempt that the UK joined the EEC as it was back then. It had been trying to join since the 60s so it wasn`t exactly a surprise to the UK public.

There`s also perhaps an argument that the EEC as we joined it and the EU as we left it were quite different things with the EEC being much more about trade rather than being quite so political.

I`m quite supportive of change needing more than a 0.1% majority when it`s a significant decision. However, I also accept it`s unworkable and unfair. If it were the case that Scotland needed 50.1% of the entire potential electorate to vote "yes" then presumably the question could be flipped to ask "Are you in favour of REMAINING part of the UK?".

The best solution will always be the simplest one. In the case of votes it`s to go by the majority of votes cast. You can`t assume which way someone who chose not to vote would have voted.

Anyways, couple more years until we can either get rid of Truss or see another Tory government. They`re surely running out of potential candidates?!
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Tue 6 Sep 23:55

If the UK had a written constitution it might prevent the government changing the rules to suit its own ends.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Wed 7 Sep 09:02

Coffey as deputy PM, heaven help us!🙈💩🤬🙏

Post Edited (Wed 07 Sep 09:02)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 7 Sep 09:36

Her main responsibility is secretary for health and social care - a daunting task.

`Thérèse Coffey is a beer, music and football-loving MP whose lively karaoke parties are the stuff of legend at Westminster. One regular attender has been her good friend Liz Truss, who has appointed the Suffolk Coastal MP as the new health and social care secretary – the third in just two months.`

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 7 Sep 11:15

Quote:

wee eck, Tue 6 Sept 23:55

If the UK had a written constitution it might prevent the government changing the rules to suit its own ends.


Not sure that would help to be honest mate. I`m sure they would argue that they`d only change it in a limited and specific way so it would be fine.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Wed 7 Sep 12:56

Braverman, Home Secretary!

Reece Mogg, Business Opportunities!

Coffey, Health Minister poster girl?🤣🤣🤣

We`re doomed, I said We`re doomed!😱🙈💩🤬🦊🦊🦊
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 7 Sep 13:34

Look on the bright side; we`re rid of Gove, Raab, Patel, Dorries, etc. Being a cabinet minister is about as secure as being a football manager.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 7 Sep 15:18

Quote:

DBP, Mon 5 Sep 20:40

It can’t be, democracy means a majority decision pure and simple…
Anything else and you’re asking, Who gets to set the hurdle? and what is their motivation?
Why should it be set higher for the change and not the status quo? The status quo has had 300 years to convince us, so maybe it needs 60% to continue?
Why should the number of those who don’t vote become counted for one sided of the argument only?


What you`ve said makes perfect sense and is completely logical, DBP, but I think you will agree that it`s invariably those who want change who get off their backsides and go out to try and make it happen. Those who are indifferent or happy with the status quo will not be especially motivated to vote. If we had the Aussie rules in place here, I very much doubt that Brexit would have happened.



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 7 Sep 15:21

Quote:

wee eck, Wed 7 Sep 13:34

Look on the bright side; we`re rid of Gove, Raab, Patel, Dorries, etc. Being a cabinet minister is about as secure as being a football manager.


That raised a smile, until I looked at their replacements, eck. I believe she`s punted all those who voted for Sunak and brought in her own supporters.



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 7 Sep 18:07

Yeah, it`s musical chairs, GGR, but the number of chairs doesn`t reduce and if somebody is eliminated somebody just as dreadful comes in to take their place.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 8 Sep 12:42

Quote:

wee eck, Wed 7 Sep 18:07

Yeah, it`s musical chairs, GGR, but the number of chairs doesn`t reduce and if somebody is eliminated somebody just as dreadful comes in to take their place.


Or even worse, quite possibly. If she only considers those who voted for her, she may well have left out some of the best candidates for each post.

It`s a bit like Athletic Bilbao only signing Basque players, or a random Scottish team having a no Catholics signing policy...... 😉



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Thu 8 Sep 13:22

Wow! Truss is so toxic that her handshake is a weapon.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 8 Sep 19:48

It`s a bit rich Truss saying the Queen was an inspiration to her when she gave that speech to the LibDem conference when she was a student saying there was no place for the monarchy in Britain.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 8 Sep 20:22

Quote:

wee eck, Thu 8 Sep 19:48

It`s a bit rich Truss saying the Queen was an inspiration to her when she gave that speech to the LibDem conference when she was a student saying there was no place for the monarchy in Britain.


You must have been an elephant in a previous life, wee eck. 🙂

Most folk will have forgotten what these devious Tory politicians have said within a fortnight.



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Thu 8 Sep 20:34

Don`t be silly. That was in the past so it doesn`t count!

Everything Truss says now is in the present, which is completely different, so we can trust her 100%.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 8 Sep 21:34

`You must have been an elephant in a previous life, wee eck. 🙂`

It`s been played umpteen times since she put herself forward to be the leader of the Tories, GGR. Have you not being paying attention?

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 9 Sep 06:50

Quote:

wee eck, Thu 8 Sep 21:34

`You must have been an elephant in a previous life, wee eck. 🙂`

It`s been played umpteen times since she put herself forward to be the leader of the Tories, GGR. Have you not being paying attention?


I`ve been turning the TV off more and more, eck. And now, with wall to wall coverage of the Queen`s death, it`s staying off. There`s only so much blood and flesh can take....



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Fri 9 Sep 07:13

It’s going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better!
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Fri 9 Sep 10:01

GG Riva - Do you watch Italian TV? I know it is mostly junk (except for Soliti Ignoti!) but foreign TV helps to give a lot of persepective when British TV goes into meltdown.

French, Dutch, and German TV were all (obviously) focused on the Queen`s death yesterday but there is a lot less fawning and more balanced reporting, i.e. highlighting problems with Andrew and Harry and discussing the implications of her death more openly. British TV might not reach that stage for weeks or months.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 9 Sep 16:36

Quote:

aaaaaaaaaargh, Fri 9 Sep 10:01

GG Riva - Do you watch Italian TV? I know it is mostly junk (except for Soliti Ignoti!) but foreign TV helps to give a lot of persepective when British TV goes into meltdown.

French, Dutch, and German TV were all (obviously) focused on the Queen`s death yesterday but there is a lot less fawning and more balanced reporting, i.e. highlighting problems with Andrew and Harry and discussing the implications of her death more openly. British TV might not reach that stage for weeks or months.


I do, mate and both RAI and Mediaset are going overboard with their coverage, but there are so many channels I can escape it.

I don`t know why but Italian TV media appear to be obsessed with the Royal Family. Unlike the USA, this obsession isn`t shared by the vast majority of Italian citizens.



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 19 Sep 20:20

Slipped in between all the Pomp Oor Liz will lift the ban on Fracking Oh Jings !!



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 19 Sep 21:17

Isn`t fracking a devolved issue in Scotland?

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Mon 19 Sep 22:17

Quote:

wee eck, Mon 19 Sept 21:17

Isn`t fracking a devolved issue in Scotland?


Devolution is power retained .
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Mon 19 Sep 22:28

Quote:

wee eck, Mon 19 Sept 21:17

Isn`t fracking a devolved issue in Scotland?


Fracking specifically isn`t, but it`s up to the Scottish Government whether or not to approve non-conventional oil and gas licences. Sturgeon already said no and continues to say no.

Can guarantee those in the formal red wall constituencies are going to be over the moon when Truss pollutes their rivers as well as their beaches.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tenruh  
Date:   Tue 20 Sep 04:21

Quote:

jake89, Mon 19 Sept 22:28

Quote:

wee eck, Mon 19 Sept 21:17

Isn`t fracking a devolved issue in Scotland?


Fracking specifically isn`t, but it`s up to the Scottish Government whether or not to approve non-conventional oil and gas licences. Sturgeon already said no and continues to say no.

Can guarantee those in the formal red wall constituencies are going to be over the moon when Truss pollutes their rivers as well as their beaches.


Needs must and if the English Government decide Scotland has to pull its weight re the energy crisis Scotland will get fracked.

As said before devolved powers can be given and taken back and the Scottish Executive can do nothing about it.

They`ll be coming for our water and wind power next.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 20 Sep 08:27

This is why they can`t afford to lose us ^^^^^^

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 20 Sep 10:28

Ineos owner residing in Monaco is desperate for it!
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 20 Sep 12:29

And these are the people who should have no say whatsoever as they`re massively biased.

It doesn`t help that we have the media who twist words, like they did with Babcock who were reported as saying they`d leave an independent Scotland, which they didn`t actually say!

I`m sure Ineos would close up too if not given fracking licences. I`m sure they`ll close their entire operation and move it to Hartlepool.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 16:12

Rees-Mogg refused to confirm to numerous Tory MPS, obviously worried about their re-election, that their constituents would be allowed a vote to say whether they wanted fracking to go ahead in their constituencies. He said they would have to come to some financial agreement with the developers. It`s always the Tory way - money rules!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 16:42

Yeah it`s funny how the will of the people gets scrapped in those instances. I think the "no" to fracking in Nottinghamshire was something like 99%.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 17:04

Yes its the Tory way .. Frack the lot of them :-)

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 18:31

`Liz Truss is considering designating fracking sites as nationally important infrastructure, potentially cutting out local communities and breaking a leadership election promise, the Guardian can reveal.`

Is this what she meant by cutting all the red tape which was holding Britain back?

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Thu 22 Sep 19:49

Yep. More to come on that front.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 23 Sep 08:22

Much more to come wee eck .. Also today will be a good for the RICH !!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 23 Sep 16:25

£ at its lowest level against the $ for 37 years! This is from the self-styled party of sound money.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 14:39

The new chancellor is an absolute chancer!

Would make a great comedy double act with our new PM, if only they didn`t hold the most important jobs in the UK.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 14:41

Quote:

wee eck, Thu 22 Sept 18:31

`Liz Truss is considering designating fracking sites as nationally important infrastructure, potentially cutting out local communities and breaking a leadership election promise, the Guardian can reveal.`

Is this what she meant by cutting all the red tape which was holding Britain back?


This is concerning as it could negate Scotlands abilities to stop fracking here.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Sat 24 Sep 15:41

I don`t think that would apply in Scotland but I`m not 100% sure.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 25 Sep 18:37

And so it continues :-


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63028710

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sun 25 Sep 18:40

So Trusses chief of staff is under investigation by the FBI for financial dealings.

Kwartang connected to Crispen Odey who has just made a fortune from the pound plunging.

Supporters getting their pay offs now, Christmas has come early.

Tories don`t think she`ll last past March, plenty time to reward her supporters and leave any future government in a right pickle!🤔🤬🤬🤬
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 26 Sep 08:22

Spot on L.A. I see the pound has plunged yet again
It will take years for this Country to recover after she goes

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Mon 26 Sep 17:42

Letters of no confidence arriving already!
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 26 Sep 17:46

It`s about time we had another Tory bun fight. It`s about 3 weeks since the last one.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 26 Sep 20:26

Bring Back Boris :-))

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 28 Sep 15:41

Tory peer Daniel Hannan reckons that what`s spooked the financial markets isn`t the Truss/Kwarteng mini-budget but the prospect of a Labour government at Westminster!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 28 Sep 15:46

Quote:

wee eck, Wed 28 Sept 15:41

Tory peer Daniel Hannan reckons that what`s spooked the financial markets isn`t the Truss/Kwarteng mini-budget but the prospect of a Labour government at Westminster!


That last batch of coke was clearly laced with something...
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Wed 28 Sep 23:56

I appreciate the levity, but this is quite serious. A woman who was never considered better than 4th choice within her own narrow MP ballot before it was opened to the Tory membership, is now running the country.

sammer
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 29 Sep 00:19

Quote:

sammer, Wed 28 Sept 23:56

I appreciate the levity, but this is quite serious. A woman who was never considered better than 4th choice within her own narrow MP ballot before it was opened to the Tory membership, is now running the country.


Ruining the country I would say!
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 29 Sep 08:25

Too late L.A. It IS Ruined :-(

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 29 Sep 08:39

Quote:

sammer, Wed 28 Sept 23:56

I appreciate the levity, but this is quite serious. A woman who was never considered better than 4th choice within her own narrow MP ballot before it was opened to the Tory membership, is now running the country.


At least we agree on SOMETHING 😂
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Thu 29 Sep 12:49

absolute disaster - completely out of her depth.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0d3flmh




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Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 29 Sep 16:41

Just listened to it Raymie .. what an embarrassment .. she won`t last long

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Thu 29 Sep 17:40

Labour 33 points ahead in yougov poll.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Thu 29 Sep 21:47

Quote:

Buspasspar, Thu 29 Sep 16:41

Just listened to it Raymie .. what an embarrassment .. she won`t last long


I agree. The Tories will see that poll and be worried for their jobs.
Out by Christmas




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Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Thu 29 Sep 22:07

I thought she was really thick before I listened to that. I under-called it......
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 30 Sep 08:27

Hold on .. Ive just read that Truss has pledged to honour the pension triple lock to increase in line with inflation ... I Knew she was a good un :-))

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Fri 30 Sep 09:13

i suppose she has rewarded all her rich pals as best she could is such a short space of time... and now she`s keeping those that got her the job sweet

also, it`ll mean that project fear can go full tilt on pensions during any indy debate and try to scare people of my age and above that they can look after our future better than we could

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Fri 30 Sep 10:19

Quote:

Buspasspar, Fri 30 Sept 08:27

Hold on .. Ive just read that Truss has pledged to honour the pension triple lock to increase in line with inflation ... I Knew she was a good un :-))


Depends on what the ERG want Bpp!
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 30 Sep 10:57

She`s more dangerous than Johnson. He knew that most of what he said was guff but she actually believes what she says. She doesn`t realise her limitations.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Fri 30 Sep 12:48

Completely agree. Her radio interviews yesterday were a complete car crash.....called her out for what she is.....absolutely clueless.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 2 Oct 08:31


Sunday Times :-

The Chancellor attended a private champagne reception on the day of his budget announcement which was attended by hedge fund managers who may have been set to gain from the market crash.


Mr Kwarteng also reportedly gave guests insights into forthcoming Government spending cuts during the event at the Chelsea home of Andrew Law, a financier and Conservative Party donor. The revelation will raise questions about the Chancellor`s political judgement and that discussions at the party may have influenced his announcement that even bigger tax cuts are to come.


in his mini budget the former Etonian gave £45 billion tax cuts to the highest earners as the pound crashed to its lowest level since 1985, arguably benefiting many guests at the drinks event.


After Friday`s soiree at least two prominent hedge fund bosses told City associates that Mr Kwarteng was “a useful idiot”.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Sun 2 Oct 11:57

I read that this morning. Useful idiot for the wealthy and useless idiot for the majority of the U.K.

Let’s hope the country gets a welcome Christmas present - the removal of both idiots




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 2 Oct 13:09

From the Guardian newsfeed :-`

In his interview with Sophy Ridge this morning on Sky, Jake Berry, the Conservative party chair, also said that, if people were having difficulty paying their fuel bills, they could either cut their consumption or get a better job. He was making a point about the need for the government to economise, and he said that was how households worked too. He said:

People know that when their bills arrive, they can either cut their consumption or they can get a higher salary, higher wages, go out there and get that new job.`


That sums up Tory policies. He could have added that they could also go to a food bank, starve, beg or die of hypothermia.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 2 Oct 15:37

Oh Jings When`s the next bus :-


Prime Minister Liz Truss told Laura Kuenssberg she stands by the tax cuts announced by Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng on 23 September

But she accepted the government could have "laid the ground better" before the mini-budget

The PM admitted she did not discuss cutting the top tax rate from 45% to 40% with the whole cabinet, adding it was the chancellor`s decision

Former culture secretary Nadine Dorries - one of former PM Boris Johnson`s fiercest supporters - accused Truss of throwing Kwarteng under the bus with the revelation

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 2 Oct 15:47

Nice placard amongst the demonstrators outside the Tory conference in Birmingham - `The only good Tory is a Lavatory`.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 2 Oct 19:19

Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sun 2 Oct 15:47

Nice placard amongst the demonstrators outside the Tory conference in Birmingham - `The only good Tory is a Lavatory`.


Love it wee eck :-))

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 2 Oct 19:41

Shortest ever time as P.M. ? .. If the daily rags are to be believed letters of no confidence are being submitted already .. Just trying to protect their jobs

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Sun 2 Oct 21:05

Quote:

wee eck, Sun 2 Oct 15:47

Nice placard amongst the demonstrators outside the Tory conference in Birmingham - `The only good Tory is a Lavatory`.


I think I dislike her more than Boris ? I can’t believe I’m even tying that




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Mon 3 Oct 07:33

U-turn on the 45p rate of tax.

What a shambles

I don’t think they will even reach Christmas ?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983


Post Edited (Mon 03 Oct 07:34)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 3 Oct 09:10

Turns out it was just a distraction Raymie

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Mon 3 Oct 09:19

and we acted to prevent people paying £6500 for their energy. I wonder where that number was plucked from? Not too many living in castles, I think?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: buffy  
Date:   Mon 3 Oct 10:55

And people have lost value on their pensions when the pound crashed after that ridiculous mini budget. How do they get that back?

”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Jeffery  
Date:   Mon 3 Oct 12:44

Lesson learned for future Tory leaders, don`t go `full Tory` in your first budget, at least keep the mask on a little.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 3 Oct 14:25

Another nice placard in the form of a road sign advertising the Tory conference with a red triangle framing a picture of a bull that has just emptied its bowels!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: back oh the net  
Date:   Mon 3 Oct 16:17

Not even been in the job a month and there making a James hunt of it already pleasing 😂😂😂😂😂

Come on ye pars ⚽️
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: DBP  
Date:   Mon 3 Oct 16:53

I certainly don’t live in a castle (3 bed detached 1930s house) and my bill has gone up to £440 per month

That’s £5200 a year

Post Edited (Mon 03 Oct 16:53)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Mon 3 Oct 18:54

Quote:

Jeffery, Mon 3 Oct 12:44

Lesson learned for future Tory leaders, don`t go `full Tory` in your first budget, at least keep the mask on a little.


It was only a mini budget as well.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Mon 3 Oct 21:37

Without the new energy cap, a 4 bed detached pre 1919 house would use about £7000 a year. This is estimated from the great-home.co.uk website with the 51.89p and 14.76p per kWh non-capped rates for electricity and gas respectively.

It obviously depends on your insulation, but quite a few people would have been paying more than £6500.

Apparently the energy cap is costing the government £60 billion over the winter. For that money, they could’ve given every citizen one of those designer cardigans that Scott Parker wears!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Tue 4 Oct 02:07

Looks like another u-turn in the offing?
The economic plan to be announced on 23rd November and no sooner, to allow it to be “done properly”, will be brought forward to this month, prior to November 3rd Bank of England rate announcement.

Shambles




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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 4 Oct 08:27

They are just finalising the benefit cuts to pay for their c*ck up Raymie
They have been forced to release earlier as the markets would be in meltdown

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 4 Oct 19:42

Confusion over Kwarteng`s fiscal plan announcement

There`s been some confusion surrounding the publication date of Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng`s medium-term fiscal plan, where he will set out how he will cut the UK`s debt. This is something that financial markets are very keen to see.

Here`s what we know:

* The plan was originally due to be published on 23 November

* Political journalists were briefed on Monday evening that this date was going to be brought forward.

It was thought this might be to coincide with independent analysis from the Office for Budget Responsibility and the news sent the pound higher

* But today, in an interview with GB News, Kwarteng appeared to quash these reports. Asked whether the date was changing, he said bluntly: "It`s going to be the 23rd."

Ach Weel

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 4 Oct 21:12

Also did an interview on GB TV (apparently I can`t say I watch it!) Saying their mini budget was poop because of the pressure of the Queen`s death. Aye right.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Tue 4 Oct 21:32

Sterling now higher vs. the dollar than it was before the mini budget though. The media might have over-egged the pudding a wee bit here…..

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 5 Oct 08:46

Yeah but the $ fell globally on their jobs news rather than the £ being particularly strong.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 5 Oct 09:42

I`ve just watched Truss`s interview with Beth Rigby of Sky News yesterday. The Tories must reconsider how they go about choosing a leader. All the weaknesses she showed in dealing with the questions in that interview were obvious in the various hustings she took part in during the play-off with Sunak yet the membership elected her.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Tad Allagash  
Date:   Wed 5 Oct 12:52

The point about currency exchanges is just that the media create simple narratives to explain every movement in a complex volatile market. ‘ $ falls on jobs news ‘ is another simplified media narrative. If we blame politicians when a market moves in one direction, then we’d have to credit them when it moves in the other direction.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Wed 5 Oct 16:10

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/voices-pie-lady-liz-truss-s-speech-took-an-inevitable-turn-towards-insanity/ar-AA12D7K7?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=fb92906b7c284f6e8a187ac0b23c5327




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 5 Oct 17:46

Enjoyed that Raymie

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 11 Oct 19:41

From Aunty :-

The Bank of England has warned of a "material risk" to financial stability as it made a fresh emergency move to try to calm investors.

It said it would buy more government bonds to try to stabilise their price and prevent a sell-off that could put some pension funds at risk of collapse.

It is the third time the Bank has had to step in since the government`s mini-budget sparked alarm among investors.

The chancellor promised huge tax cuts without saying how he would fund them.


What a bloody mess !!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Tue 11 Oct 21:01

PMQ tomorrow.

More slavering in store.




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: aaaaaaaaaargh  
Date:   Tue 11 Oct 22:41

I`m still trying to work out which description of Truss is the most accurate. I have seen her described as a badly programmed automaton, a bird that just flew into a window, and having the empty expression of a pigeon looking at a Rubik`s cube.

I suppose she will just say anti-growth coalition as many times as possible during PMQs then her handlers will reward her with a biscuit.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Wed 12 Oct 08:34

Bank pulling the plug on Friday after pumping billions into bonds
Pension funds now in real danger

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Wed 12 Oct 09:42

And we all thought that Venezuela couldn`t handle their finances!🤔😲🤬
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Wed 12 Oct 11:01

Joking aside, I don`t think we`d reach the point of Venezuela, but this is an absolute farce. How soon can we have a general election to get these idiots out?

The SNP could set up a branch in England and get elected over this lot!
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 12 Oct 11:18

Just lucky we avoided a pensions disaster by staying in the strong and stable union.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 12 Oct 11:52

The Economist says Liz Truss is already finished as prime minister. In a coruscating leader published online yesterday, it says:

Liz Truss is already a historical figure. However long she now lasts in office, she is set to be remembered as the prime minister whose grip on power was the shortest in British political history. Ms Truss entered Downing Street on September 6th. She blew up her own government with a package of unfunded tax cuts and energy-price guarantees on September 23rd. Take away the ten days of mourning after the death of the queen, and she had seven days in control. That is the shelf-life of a lettuce.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Wed 12 Oct 12:02

Wow that is a withering piece from the economist. I like it.

" The shelf life of a lettuce " lol.

She is thick as three short planks. Another Tory idiot. Her attempts at humour are cringeworthy. Her pre prepared lines when being interviewed are wooden.
She just has this blank dumb look on her face. Completely out of her depth as she was in her previous posts.

I thought nobody could be as bad as Boris but I think she trumps even him.

Just think if Liz threw the towel in the deputy PM would stand in until the next farcical PM election was concluded.

The deputy PM is the obese , cigar smoking, lying, incompetent Health secretary.

That would be a hoot....

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Wed 12 Oct 12:38

I don`t see PMQs very often but have been watching today. She was never going to get an easy ride but this has been an absolute cringe. Avoiding the question is nothing new, but to `answer` most of the hostile questions with something like `this government has acted decisively to limit energy bills` is just absolutely pathetic. Does she think we haven`t already heard that one pre-prepared line numerous time already?

She`s obviously completely hopeless and if she had any self-awareness at all would surely realise that the job is way beyond her competence.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 12 Oct 15:09

BoJo was terrible but there was always quite a lot worse in that party than him and it was a risk that one of the nutters would get in after he went. Truss maybe isnt the worst in terms of the sociopath scale, she just seems completely out of her depth at everything. You could imagine her doing a Balotelli trying to get dressed in the morning. It has always been the scary thing about the last few years.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Wed 12 Oct 16:16

Quote:

londonparsfan, Wed 12 Oct 15:09

BoJo was terrible but there was always quite a lot worse in that party than him and it was a risk that one of the nutters would get in after he went. Truss maybe isnt the worst in terms of the sociopath scale, she just seems completely out of her depth at everything. You could imagine her doing a Balotelli trying to get dressed in the morning. It has always been the scary thing about the last few years.


Can you elaborate on the Balotelli allusion, lpf? I`m most intrigued. 🤔



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: sadindiefreak  
Date:   Wed 12 Oct 16:26

Quote:

GG Riva, Wed 12 Oct 16:16

Quote:

londonparsfan, Wed 12 Oct 15:09

BoJo was terrible but there was always quite a lot worse in that party than him and it was a risk that one of the nutters would get in after he went. Truss maybe isnt the worst in terms of the sociopath scale, she just seems completely out of her depth at everything. You could imagine her doing a Balotelli trying to get dressed in the morning. It has always been the scary thing about the last few years.


Can you elaborate on the Balotelli allusion, lpf? I`m most intrigued. 🤔


This is what`s he`s on about I think.
https://youtu.be/lYU-SeVofHs
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower  
Date:   Wed 12 Oct 18:14

lpf - I suspect you have your tongue in your cheek with that comment, but what would have happened on Indy? A whole load of new issues, as well as most of the existing ones, I would have thought.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 12 Oct 18:40

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Wed 12 Oct 16:26

Quote:

GG Riva, Wed 12 Oct 16:16

Quote:

londonparsfan, Wed 12 Oct 15:09

BoJo was terrible but there was always quite a lot worse in that party than him and it was a risk that one of the nutters would get in after he went. Truss maybe isnt the worst in terms of the sociopath scale, she just seems completely out of her depth at everything. You could imagine her doing a Balotelli trying to get dressed in the morning. It has always been the scary thing about the last few years.


Can you elaborate on the Balotelli allusion, lpf? I`m most intrigued. 🤔


This is what`s he`s on about I think.
https://youtu.be/lYU-SeVofHs


That is indeed the reference!
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 12 Oct 18:44

Quote:

McCaig`s Tower, Wed 12 Oct 18:14

lpf - I suspect you have your tongue in your cheek with that comment, but what would have happened on Indy? A whole load of new issues, as well as most of the existing ones, I would have thought.


Obviously the Balotelli reference was trying to be a bit light hearted but I meant everything about what I said about there being worse in the Tories.

I`ve got no idea what would or would not have happened after an Indy vote but I`m hard pressed to see any other country of our magnitude that are struggling the same way we are. Its clear that the decisions we`ve made are taking the country backwards and have been for years. At least in an Indy Scotland it would be far easier to replace the Government at any given point in time.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Wed 12 Oct 18:45

Oh and Truss is also out of her depth at everything.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Wed 12 Oct 22:40

I honestly think Truss is very stupid. I don`t think I`ve ever actually thought that about a PM. Incompetent yes but actually stupid No

As for Kwasi. Every time I see him on television he looks like he doesn`t actually know where he is. To use a good Scottish expression - he always looks glaikit.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Wed 12 Oct 22:45

From twitter

Tory MP on his way out of the 1922 Committee.

"There`s nothing between the ears. She didn`t answer a bloody question and kept asking us what we should do. It`s clear panic has set in."
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: moviescot  
Date:   Wed 12 Oct 22:52

King Charles meets Liz truss. Audio is interesting

Truss: Hello your majesty nice to see you again.
Charles: oh dear oh dear.

Posted on royal you tube channel.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 12 Oct 23:51

It was interesting to hear the US-based correspondence of the FT on C4 News tonight. She said the UK is now viewed by the financial markets in the US the way Italy used to be viewed rather than as the bastion of financial rectitude. She also said Rees-Mogg`s attempt to blame everyone apart from the UK government for the financial shambles was `bollocks`.



Post Edited (Wed 12 Oct 23:53)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 13 Oct 09:14

"As for Kwasi. Every time I see him on television he looks like he doesn`t actually know where he is. To use a good Scottish expression - he always looks glaikit."


Made me laugh moviescot :-)

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Thu 13 Oct 10:02

Topic Originator: londonparsfan
Date: Wed 12 Oct 18:44

Quote:

McCaig`s Tower, Wed 12 Oct 18:14

lpf - I suspect you have your tongue in your cheek with that comment, but what would have happened on Indy? A whole load of new issues, as well as most of the existing ones, I would have thought.


Obviously the Balotelli reference was trying to be a bit light hearted but I meant everything about what I said about there being worse in the Tories.

I`ve got no idea what would or would not have happened after an Indy vote but I`m hard pressed to see any other country of our magnitude that are struggling the same way we are. Its clear that the decisions we`ve made are taking the country backwards and have been for years. At least in an Indy Scotland it would be far easier to replace the Government at any given point in time.


That in a nutshell is why we should be independent. The Scottish people can decide what government we want and when. At present we have little or no say in what WM gov we will get and no say in policy making. If we are unhappy about any of it we have to wait till the next UK GE and the same thing happens all over again. If our Gov are not doing what we elected them too then we can kick them out....only if we are independent.

Independence is normal. Scotland at present is not a normal country with little control over the things we really need to improve our economy or our society.

MT`s response is typically weak, basically translating into " oh well if we are independent things might be worse , so why bother ?" . Imagine if the human race had that kind of mindset ? We would still be living in caves.

If those who have been fence sitters regarding independence are still sitting on that proverbial fence after the absolute s**t show we have seen in recent years then I utterly despair for the future of Scotland.

I have faith in my fellow country men and women to make a better fist of things than those expensively educated idiots in WM have. There is no reason, none whatsoever why Scotland cannot be a successful independent country just like the Scandinavian countries ,Ireland, NZ and the rest. Unfortunately there are still way too many people in Scotland who don`t believe that we the Scottish people can do what all these other small countries have done.

If independence was so fraught with difficulties and worry about the future, with no belief that things would be better, there would still only be about 50 independent countries in the world instead of c200.

You either believe that the Scottish people can make a better job of things or you don`t. You either have faith in the ability of your people of you don`t.

And if you don`t, then you are happy to have a bunch of incompetent, right wing loony`s determining your future and that of you children and grandchildren too.

I know which side I am on. I believe. I have faith and I would much rather be in that camp, playing a part , however small in shaping Scotland future.



Post Edited (Thu 13 Oct 10:04)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 13 Oct 10:30

Well said, desparado. The unionist argument that we`re safer under the `broad shoulders` of the UK even seems to apply when it is the UK government that is causing the problems. They`ll deny it but their argument is basically that we`re too wee, too poor and too stupid to prosper on our own. It`s an insulting message of woe.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 13 Oct 10:50

When asked if the government would make any changes to win over rebellious Tory MPs, Mr Cleverly said the "plan is to grow the economy".


Sound Familiar ? .. another sycophant without a scooby

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 13 Oct 11:27

Why does Nicola Sturgeon "detest" the Tories

Click here

The worst part isn`t even the "not in my back yard" attitude. It`s that, if she knew anything about fracking, she`d know there`s nothing to frack in the north of Scotland and that fracking occurred in the central belt decades ago.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Thu 13 Oct 11:42

Just another idiot spouting nonsense.

Most of the shale gas is in the central belt - in the most populous area of Scotland and one of the most densely populated areas of the UK.

THAT is the reason there should be no fracking here.

She is obviously dense if she thinks you can frack in Northern Scotland.

Another example of the kind of tubes we will always have commenting on Scotland. Giving their ignorant opinion of Scotland as part of greater Englandshire.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 13 Oct 11:56

JRM Is quite happy to allow fracking in his back garden .. would love that to happen to the odious reptile

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 13 Oct 12:19

There was fracking many years ago in the central belt. It was abandoned as the quality was poor. You can still see the bings around Livingston. Big red things.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Thu 13 Oct 13:00

Yes it was done before on a relatively small scale......I think.

I personally don`t think it should be done again in the central belt.

It ok in Texas where it is miles and miles from built up areas.

Groningen in Holland has had some serious issues.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower  
Date:   Thu 13 Oct 13:34

desparado

I was trying to amplify the point about pensions. It seems to me that pensions in an independent Scotland would still be exposed to turmoil in the London markets in addition to problems introduced by indy – such as currency risk, capital and business flight, scheme closure and so on.

As for replacing the government – I’m not sure it would be any easier. We seem to be having a new PM every 6 weeks or so, whereas Nicola Sturgeon has been in charge for the last 400 years, or thereabouts. In the 21st century we’ve had 6 UK General Elections and 5 Scottish Elections. (Clearly I’ve cherry-picked the numbers there – going back to 1999 I think the score is 6-6. So broadly the same number of opportunities to vote)

If I may say so, your response is a typically nationalist one, framed in terms of Scotland (or the Scots – is that different?) rather than individuals for example. “We’re great, they are rubbish”. Why should we be better than them? Why should we be worse? Yes, the UK government is incompetent. But so is the SG IMO. I would say the UKG is worse right now, but that may not always be the case. Anyway, surely we should be aiming higher? Claiming the SNHS isn’t as bad as the NHS in England by some (manipulated) stat is no consolation if you are waiting several hours for an ambulance. And the devolution settlement was designed to protect Scotland (or the Scots) from Westminster - hence all of its powers.

Then we have the idea that “independence is Normal”. Where did that come from? A glib phrase manufactured to help the SNP cause? Fife isn’t independent. Edinburgh isn’t independent. Northumbria, Wessex and Strathclyde aren’t independent. Is Catalonia independent? (The jury may literally be out on that one). There are 8 billion people in the world yet just over 200 countries. Independence looks pretty abnormal to me. (Not that that makes it wrong). Why is the USA 1 country, not 5 or 20 or 50?

You say we have little or no say in what WM government we get. We have a vote – the same as everyone else. Do you want your votes to count more?

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Thu 13 Oct 15:18



Just spent 15 mins replying to your post MT and....poof...it has disappeared.

Oh well I will just have to respond again later tonight.........

Post Edited (Thu 13 Oct 15:21)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Thu 13 Oct 15:58

The fact they seem to miss is that it wouldn`t be like we could price our oil or gas lower. The price is set so energy prices in the UK couldn`t be lowered on the basis it was "our" gas.

And it would take years to actually see any oil/gas generation. Need to issue licences, set the whole thing up etc.

Post Edited (Thu 13 Oct 15:59)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower  
Date:   Thu 13 Oct 16:03

I sympathise desparado. Some of my best work - incisive, intelligent, informative, profound, thought-provoking and at times hilarious has similarly disappeared into the ether on occasion and my attempts to recreate it fail miserably.

I tend to draft my comments in Outlook so if the worst happens I have some sort of copy.

I`ll look forward to your response.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 13 Oct 17:03

I could be wrong but looks like they are going for GROWTH :-

A Downing Street spokesperson has refused to comment on reports that talks are under way at No 10 on reversing parts of the mini-budget, saying repeatedly "our position hasn`t changed".

They doubled down on comments from Kwasi Kwarteng where he said his focus is on GROWTH, adding that he and the prime minister are working together ahead of a fiscal statement at the end of the month.

Asked if Liz Truss stands by her remarks that it would be wrong to raise taxes on businesses in the face of a recession, the spokesperson said: "You heard from the prime minister yesterday about her plan for GROWTH and her and the chancellor`s approach.

"They are both focused on delivering on the GROWTH plan, making sure that we get GROWTH back into our economy...and ensuring that more people keep more of the money that they earn."

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Thu 13 Oct 17:11

Question Time from Musselburgh tonight. Attending - Ross, Swinney and Sarwar

should be good?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 13 Oct 17:32

Quote:

sadindiefreak, Wed 12 Oct 16:26

Quote:

GG Riva, Wed 12 Oct 16:16

Quote:

londonparsfan, Wed 12 Oct 15:09

BoJo was terrible but there was always quite a lot worse in that party than him and it was a risk that one of the nutters would get in after he went. Truss maybe isnt the worst in terms of the sociopath scale, she just seems completely out of her depth at everything. You could imagine her doing a Balotelli trying to get dressed in the morning. It has always been the scary thing about the last few years.


Can you elaborate on the Balotelli allusion, lpf? I`m most intrigued. 🤔


This is what`s he`s on about I think.
https://youtu.be/lYU-SeVofHs


😂🤣😂🤣 Missed that at the time. Cheers, SIF,



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Thu 13 Oct 19:29

Quote:

londonparsfan, Wed 12 Oct 18:45

Oh and Truss is also out of her depth at everything.


There`s a new word in the Oxford English dictionary - trussonomics - Faissal Islam.



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Thu 13 Oct 19:57

MT,
Your comparison with other places such as Northumbria, Wessex, Strathclyde and the states in America is nonsensical because none of these places are defined as a country by the UN. Scotland is. Scotland is a country that is apparently in a voluntary union. A country that is allegedly an equal partner with the much larger country next door. Yet it appears that there is no way Scotland can leave the voluntary union unless we have the permission from our neighbour. Ah but it is a U.K. parliament I hear you cry. It is a Parliament that has 10x English representation compared to Scottish. It is in all intensive purposes an English parliament. I wonder if England wanted to leave the U.K. we would see a situation whereby the Supreme Court would be involved? I think we all know the answer to that one.

You mention concerns about the markets and pensions in an independent Scotland. It seems to me like you would need some sort of guarantees about the future with regards to these? Well as I am sure you know it is impossible to give guarantees about many things after Indy. I can’t think of a country in the world that had to or even needed to prior to becoming independent.

How about you ask the same question the other way round ? What guarantees will you have with regards to the pound, pensions, mortgages the economy in general if we stay in the U.K.? Answer? None. And as we have just seen the two woefully inept incumbents, Thick Lizzie and Kamikwazi have just trashed it basically. Broad shoulders of the U.K. eh ?

The Scottish Government is incompetent according to you. Really? Strange because every survey I have seen suggests that the majority of people in Scotland think that Scot Gov and NS do a decent job. That probably explains why they won the Holyrood election with a record number of votes. Maybe you have a more personal reason for describing them in such a fashion ? One thing for sure is that you are certainly in a minority with that opinion.

You mention devolution, again in a negative context. Devolution has been a god send for Scotland. At least we have been able to mitigate some of the abhorrent Tory policies. U.K. gov had to be dragged kicking and screaming by the EU to implement devolution as the U.K. was at the time the least democratic country in the developed world. ( Still is btw ) Make no mistake U.K. gov would love to take back control and implement direct rule again. The old colonial mindset is still alive and kicking in WM. You would be happy to see that I suspect ?

If Scotland becomes independent it will be the richest country ever to do so. We have an abundance of natural resources, an educated workforce, many of the institutions and governmental departments in place already. I wonder how all those other countries in a much worse situation than Scotland ever managed it ?, and a desire I believe when push comes to shove that would see us work collectively to make it succeed. Well apart from British Nationalists among us who would no doubt try to sabotage it at every turn…

You are obviously the type of person who will continually look for negatives.

I tend to take a more pragmatic approach and use precedence and look at the c150 countries that have become independent since WWII. None of them think it was a mistake. There is no reason whatsoever that Scotland could not become a successful independent country. None.

You obviously have very little faith in your fellow countrymen and women overcoming the inevitable problems. I do.

I have no fears for my children and grandchildren’s future after independence but I sure as heck do if we stay in the U.K. and allow a bunch of self entitled, corrupt, sociopaths to make decisions for us. The same sociopaths that have independently been accused of causing the needless deaths of 300 000 of its very own citizens. If we stay part of the U.K. we are finished. If we leave we have a chance.

Now don’t take this the wrong way but I won’t reply to your reply as I have said my piece and can’t be bothered with the ping pong of opinion going back and forth.




Post Edited (Thu 13 Oct 20:01)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Thu 13 Oct 20:28

Superb Post and response desparado ..

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Thu 13 Oct 20:43

Desperado for our MP




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983


Post Edited (Thu 13 Oct 20:44)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Thu 13 Oct 21:11

Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend
Date: Thu 13 Oct 20:43

Desperado for our MP


Funnily you are not the first person to suggest that. Maybe after I hang up my oil and gas hard hat and stop working in extremely dodgy places……pretty soon……I might dive in to politics…..think I put up a better argument when I am full flow than many of the baffie wearing SNP MP’s do…

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Fri 14 Oct 09:52

Excellent post, desparado. You would surely be a better MP than some of the absolute oafs who sit at Westminster. 🙂



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 14 Oct 12:00

It seems that Kwarteng is toast. Jeremy Hunt/Zahawi/Javid are all being tipped as his successor.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Fri 14 Oct 12:22

Yes, another u-turn but Truss has thrown him under a bus. She would have signed the mini-budget off
She’ll be gone by Christmas, hopefully ?




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 14 Oct 12:28

Kwasi Kwarteng is no longer chancellor, the BBC understands.

It comes amid speculation Truss will today announce a U-turn on parts of the mini-budget.

Earlier, a No 10 source told the BBC that Truss thought the chancellor was "doing an excellent job"



Post Edited (Fri 14 Oct 12:30)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Fri 14 Oct 12:35

It’s incredulous. She should go too




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983


Post Edited (Fri 14 Oct 12:36)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 14 Oct 12:56

A group of senior Tories are calling for her to resign apparently. Kwarteng lasted 38 days. The only Chancellor who served less than that (30 days) died in office!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Fri 14 Oct 13:23

What an absolute embarrassment. A complete omnishambles.

It was clear from the start that Truss wasn`t clever enough to hold this sort of role.

Hopefully the Tory`s will now destroy each other and we can get rid of them.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 14 Oct 13:27

It seems the Chief Secretary to the Treasury is also going, a man described by John Crace of the Guardian as `the creepy Chris Philp – the Nose in Search of a Bum`.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Fri 14 Oct 13:31

Yes Chris Philp.....a pathetic sychophantic crawling, creep.

He was the one who Mick Lynch said he was lying on one of the politics show. I think ML said it about 20 times.

I noticed that he has had a lot to say for himself recently. Obviously a patsy and too stupid to realise.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 14 Oct 13:33

Jeremy Hunt appointed as the new Chancellor!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 14 Oct 13:57

The PM`s letter acknowledging KK`s resignation letter was signed by ...KK! If this was fiction it would be considered too far-fetched to publish.

Standard practice apparently to print the recipient`s name under the sender`s signature, which caused the confusion.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Fri 14 Oct 14:12

Interesting observation on twitter:-

If the rabid Lib Dem, Liz Truss in her twenties ever wondered how to bring down a government, how would she manage it?

Post Edited (Fri 14 Oct 14:12)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Fri 14 Oct 14:45

The answer to almost every question. "It is my job to deliver growth and stability..bla bla bla"

She is like one of those dolls that had a string down the back and when you pulled it ,it would repeat the same two or three phrases over and over again.......

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Fri 14 Oct 14:46

Did anyone watch that cringe worthy attempt by Truss ?
Every question was answered the same .. Economic stability .. Growth .. and help with energy costs .. pathetic !!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower  
Date:   Fri 14 Oct 14:56

Thank you desperado. I’m sure you and others are expecting a response and so I’ll endeavour not to disappoint.

I’ll take your points roughly in order.

The UN

Where do they come in? Are you saying there is some sort of list at the UN that determines who can and can’t be an independent nation? Like some exclusive club. “Sorry, Wessex, you’re not on the list, you can’t come in. Essex, you’re wearing trainers, clear off…” Can you or anyone else provide a link?

But I think you are making my point for me – independence is unusual. Beware of politicians who say things in a matter of fact manner and question glib slogans.

Parliament

As a thought experiment, suppose England split up into 12 different nations of about 5m population each – would that be a satisfactory solution to end the so called “dominance” at Westminster?

Pensions

I didn’t mention guarantees. What I am saying is that independence would not necessarily protect Scottish pension scheme members from market turmoil in the LSE. Instead it would introduce additional issues.

Incompetence of SG

Yes, I think they are incompetent. Off the top of my head, think about Prestwick, Ferries, Hospitals, Covid deaths, Lochaber Smelter, Hospital waiting lists, Ambulance waiting times, Drug Deaths, Covid inquiry, National Investment Bank, Salmond enquiry, Census, Police Force merger. Am I in a minority? So what. But I bet I’m not alone.

Devolution

I was in favour. I still am. I campaigned for it (when the SNP were largely against). (The same applies to membership of the EU as well, but that is an aside). I don’t remember the EU having anything to do with it by the way.

Do I have faith in my fellow citizens? In some, but not all.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Fri 14 Oct 15:32

I said she would be gone by Christmas a few weeks ago.
I don’t think she will see the month out ?

Hunt was considered not good enough to get a job in her cabinet but now leaps straight into the second top job ?

She’s so much out of her depth, it’s untrue.

Btw, her whining voice really grates




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 14 Oct 15:41

Re MCT`s post -

How is independence unusual? Tell that to the nations who were formerly part of the Soviet Union or Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia. Anyway, none of the other parts of the UK you mention are parties to the Treaty of Union so I don`t see their relevance to the argument.

Charges of incompetence can be levelled at any government and the present one at Westminster is no exception. Covid deaths, hospital and ambulance waiting times, awarding of PPE contracts, Owen Paterson affair, partygate, HS2, Johnson`s private expenditure, ferry contracts to a company with no such experience, the present economic shambles. At the last count there were 6 police forces, including the Met, in England operating under `special measures`. In Scotland we probably hear about every `scandal` allegedly involving the Scottish government but there are possibly many at local level down south which aren`t reported up here. Unionists seem to judge the Scottish government by different standards from those they apply to Westminster.

ETA - How could I forget the 2016 EU referendum - the most dishonest political campaign of my lifetime?



Post Edited (Fri 14 Oct 19:00)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Fri 14 Oct 17:09

I don`t think many of us expected much of her, but who`d have thought Johnson would hold title of Worst UK Prime Minister Ever for such a short period of time?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Fri 14 Oct 18:14

Just seen her Q&A....wow....she manages to look more stupid every time she speaks.

Unbelievable.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Fri 14 Oct 22:33

Let`s hope the new Chancellor doesn`t make a Jeremy Hunt of it.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Sat 15 Oct 06:01

4 chancellors in the last 4 months - can`t wait for November. Rees-Mogg anyone? 😨

Truss is the perfect illustration of Peter`s Principle - promoted to her level of incompetence, although I suspect she reached that a while back.

Tory MPs will surely not let their membership choose their next leader - they`re even more clueless than the MPs themselves. 😃



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Sat 15 Oct 11:47

Jeremy Hunt as chancellor?

Like making Harold Shipman Health Secretary, my GP described him with a name that rhymed with Hunt!

And as for the deputy PM, who claimed £200K+ in expenses last year and employs her sister, and suggests that nurses should resign if they`re not happy.

Kwartang gets £17K in severance, and Boris still resident at Chequers some 6 weeks on, doing the speech circuit.

It`s been said that Truss will go next week, then the Tory voting merry-go-round will start again, the world is laughing!
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Sat 15 Oct 12:43

Do you have a link to the 200k story/breakdown please?
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 15 Oct 13:19

From the `London Economic` :-

`Further scrutiny was piled on Coffey, after it was pointed out that she claimed more than £201,000 in parliamentary expenses between 2019 and 2020, according to figures from the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA).

Taxpayers reimbursed the Suffolk Coastal MP for £201,278.38, as she worked to end the Universal Credit uplift on which many families have relied during the pandemic.`

The register of members` interests records that she employs her sister `on a casual basis`.

Post Edited (Sat 15 Oct 13:30)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Sat 15 Oct 13:41

Cheers......I hadn`t gone back far enough.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Sat 15 Oct 19:00

Yer tea’s oot, Coffey




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sat 15 Oct 19:47

Apparently Kwarteng wasn`t happy with scrapping the 45p rate of tax but Truss insisted on it. It now seems likely the reduction in the basic rate to 19p will be delayed for a year. Just as well Nicola Sturgeon didn`t follow DRoss`s advice to follow the tax measures in the original mini-budget!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: onandupthepars  
Date:   Sun 16 Oct 03:30

Truss isn`t worse than Johnston was. She is completely unfit for purpose but so was he. This Government is unfit for purpose. We`ve had the Tories for too long now, time for a change of party in Government. One that shows some degree of scruples, some degree of serving the public, unlike the CON self-serve-atives.

Post Edited (Sun 16 Oct 03:31)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Sun 16 Oct 12:19

Topic Originator: wee eck
Date: Sat 15 Oct 19:47

Apparently Kwarteng wasn`t happy with scrapping the 45p rate of tax but Truss insisted on it. It now seems likely the reduction in the basic rate to 19p will be delayed for a year. Just as well Nicola Sturgeon didn`t follow DRoss`s advice to follow the tax measures in the original mini-budget!

According to Truss wee eck it was never discussed with other mp`s and Kwarteng went ahead and did it on his own .. anything to save her own skin !!

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Sun 16 Oct 13:42

It`s dangerous to characterise what has happened over the past twelve years as foolish incompetence; it is deliberate and is happening as planned.

The latest round was designed to crash the pound in order to open the country up for foreign investment (UK assets are now cheaper to buy in non-sterling currencies) with the added benefit that, down the line, we will be chomping at the bit to allow American healthcare providers in to "save" the "failing" NHS.


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Sun 16 Oct 16:46

Quote:

Wotsit, Sun 16 Oct 13:42

It`s dangerous to characterise what has happened over the past twelve years as foolish incompetence; it is deliberate and is happening as planned.

The latest round was designed to crash the pound in order to open the country up for foreign investment (UK assets are now cheaper to buy in non-sterling currencies) with the added benefit that, down the line, we will be chomping at the bit to allow American healthcare providers in to "save" the "failing" NHS.


Normally I`d agree, and I`m sure it`s true to some extent, but the reality is that the quality of UK politician is incredibly poor. These idiots couldn`t run a bath let alone a country.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower  
Date:   Sun 16 Oct 20:41

wee Eck

This conversation has taken something of an odd turn. Now we have the Treaty of Union. It’s like a Greatest Hits of Nationalist shibboleths – presumably the Claim of Right will be making an appearance soon. But I’m baffled how I can’t cite Wessex because of irrelevance, but you can cite Slovakia and Slovenia.

As for double standards, I’ve used the same standard to accuse both the Holyrood Government and the Westminster Government of being incompetent.

Are you suggesting that the Ferries Fiasco is the work of a competent government?
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower  
Date:   Sun 16 Oct 20:50

How do Thérèse Coffey’s expenses compare with other MPs? She can’t be alone In employing family members, although I believe the practice is banned regarding new hires.

I agree with Jake - the standard of politician in the UK is pretty dismal at the moment (can I include Holyrood in that?). Loyalty is regarded more highly than competence. It’s no surprise to see some decent exponents of the art give up in disgust or take ermine.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Sun 16 Oct 21:34

`wee Eck

This conversation has taken something of an odd turn. Now we have the Treaty of Union. It’s like a Greatest Hits of Nationalist shibboleths – presumably the Claim of Right will be making an appearance soon. But I’m baffled how I can’t cite Wessex because of irrelevance, but you can cite Slovakia and Slovenia.

As for double standards, I’ve used the same standard to accuse both the Holyrood Government and the Westminster Government of being incompetent.

Are you suggesting that the Ferries Fiasco is the work of a competent government?`

How is the conversation taking an odd turn by mentioning the Treaty of Union? I thought that was why Scotland and England were part of this union?

It`s quite obvious why I mentioned the former member states of USSR, Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia. By the way, when was the last time a country forfeited its independence to join a union, particularly one which it couldn`t leave voluntarily?

You say you`re not applying double standards re competence but you appear to be citing the SG`s alleged incompetence as an argument against independence whilst having no qualms about being a member of a union whose government is incompetent. Oh, I forgot to mention water pollution in England.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 17 Oct 16:19

Anyone seen Liz Truss ??

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Mon 17 Oct 16:29

I genuinely hope she`s OK.

Clearly she needs to find a more appropriate job.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 17 Oct 16:40

She`s back in the House after attending to some `urgent business`. She was probably phoning her mortgage broker.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Mon 17 Oct 16:41

Laxatives working?
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Socks  
Date:   Mon 17 Oct 17:30

She turned up 3 minutes before the end of the questions she should have been answering (but instead put up Penny Mordaunt), then left about 10 minutes after Hunt`s statement which came immediately after. You don`t have to be especially cynical to suspect that she hid from answering questions, but wanted to be seen beside Hunt in the footage that will be shown on the news later.

Delivery isn`t everything, but it`s been quite striking watching Mordaunt and Hunt in exchanges where they give the impression that they might have something of a clue as to what they are doing. Stark contrast to Truss, who looks and is hopeless in every respect.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Mon 17 Oct 18:06

Hunt has been very calm, assertive and polite.
Impressive really.

Truss apparently meeting with the head of the 1922 committee?

He’ll have been telling her he’s had a sackful of letters asking her to leave




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Mon 17 Oct 18:30

Yeah, Hunt came across quite well, but as they say "Never trust a Tory!"

Or as my GP said "See you next Tuesday "
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Mon 17 Oct 18:49

I heard a Tory MSP on the radio this morning saying that the events of the last few weeks illustrated why now is not the time for Scotland to leave the union!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: sammer  
Date:   Mon 17 Oct 19:43

One issue the Truss debacle has highlighted is the folly of allowing the party membership to elect a political leader. Similar problems arose when Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader of the Labour Party by grassroots members. From the outset neither commanded majority support amongst the very group they were expected to lead on a day to day basis: their own parliamentary MPs. At the start of her leadership bid Truss was considered by her fellow MPs as no better than 4th choice; Corbyn was probably not even that.

There are other aspects of the job such as public presentation and keeping the party united but a leader who takes office without the core support of the players in the dressing room is unlikely to succeed.

sammer
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Mon 17 Oct 19:59

Yeah but in the case of Corbyn half the squad were essentially representing the opposition!
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Mon 17 Oct 20:11

Judging by the body language and missing from questions today .. letting Jerry the *unt take over .. she has all but gone .. its only a matter of time

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Mon 17 Oct 20:44

Dot net said that Truss would be a disaster even before she got the job




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Mon 17 Oct 20:53

Great line today in the House of Commons by Scottish MP, Brendan O’Hara.

Referring to Truss sacking Kwarteng - it’s like ventriloquist, Ray Allan sacking his puppet, Lord Charles

👏




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983


Post Edited (Mon 17 Oct 20:54)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: da_no_1  
Date:   Mon 17 Oct 23:39

Quote:

Buspasspar, Mon 17 Oct 20:11

Judging by the body language and missing from questions today .. letting Jerry the *unt take over .. she has all but gone .. its only a matter of time


That`s poor form mate. No need

"Some days will stay a 1000 years, some pass like the flash of a spark"
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: GG Riva  
Date:   Tue 18 Oct 07:40

Quote:

sammer, Mon 17 Oct 19:43

One issue the Truss debacle has highlighted is the folly of allowing the party membership to elect a political leader. Similar problems arose when Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader of the Labour Party by grassroots members. From the outset neither commanded majority support amongst the very group they were expected to lead on a day to day basis: their own parliamentary MPs. At the start of her leadership bid Truss was considered by her fellow MPs as no better than 4th choice; Corbyn was probably not even that.

There are other aspects of the job such as public presentation and keeping the party united but a leader who takes office without the core support of the players in the dressing room is unlikely to succeed.


This. No way were the Tory party members ever going to elect Rishi Sunak, even though he was clearly a far more competent politician than Truss - let`s face it some dotnetters would have made a better job of running the country than she has.



Not your average Sunday League player.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 18 Oct 09:17

I see scrapping the triple lock on pensions has been muted .. I wondered when that was coming

We are forever shaped by the Children we once were
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: McCaig`s Tower  
Date:   Tue 18 Oct 13:58

Hi wee eck

you appear to be citing the SG`s alleged incompetence as an argument against independence

No – I think desparado is citing Westminster’s “alleged” incompetence as an argument for independence. I’m pointing out that this may not be a fool-proof solution.

I’m sorry, but I still don’t know where you are going with your “Treaty of Union” argument.

Last country to give up independence? How about East Germany? Or Croatia, it could be argued.

By the way, feel free to opine on the SG’s competence if you like.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: desparado  
Date:   Tue 18 Oct 15:28

Feel free to opine WM competence........

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 18 Oct 16:46

Here we go, standard Tory policy rob the poor and elderly to make amends for their c*ck-ups :-

Liz Truss is no longer promising to raising state pensions in line with surging inflation, as she asks ministers to look for spending cuts.

The PM said two weeks ago she was "committed" to the triple lock, so payments rise by whatever is higher: prices, average earnings or 2.5%.

But her spokesman has now said she was "not making any commitments" on government spending.

It comes after ditching flagship tax cuts announced in the mini-budget.

Chancellor Jeremy Hunt`s move to tear up most of last month`s mini-budget announcements has reassured investors, but left Ms Truss battling to salvage her authority.

However, the PM`s spokesman said she was still committed to her pledge of raising defence spending to 3% of national income by 2030. (£175 Bn)

She is not making any comments because she can`t .. she has lost all authority, respect, and dignity .. She has to go



Post Edited (Tue 18 Oct 17:01)
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 18 Oct 17:23

Inflation figures tomorrow, expected to be 10%, earnings running at 5.5%, wonder which figure they will pick?🤔🤬🤬🤬
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Buspasspar  
Date:   Tue 18 Oct 17:45

Yet another promise .. commitment trashed LA .. Is there no end to this despicable government

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: jake89  
Date:   Tue 18 Oct 18:33

If you don`t already have a private pension...

The Tories are almost hilarious. They`ve gone from low tax and fiscally responsible to high tax and whack it on the credit card.

I`m pretty indifferent to the independence debate but the notion of things being great under the status quo are surely massively questionable?
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 18 Oct 19:54

38% of the Tory membership think Truss is doing a good job. Wowser.

BoJo the favourite to replace her amongst the membership apparently. Gets better.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: parsfan  
Date:   Tue 18 Oct 20:12

I saw 83% thought she was doing a bad job.

I think the 38% might be of those who voted for her.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The universe is ruled by chance and indifference



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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Tue 18 Oct 20:27

Quote:

parsfan, Tue 18 Oct 20:12

I saw 83% thought she was doing a bad job.

I think the 38% might be of those who voted for her.


Was it not Kwasi that was reporting that 83% thought she was doing a bad job and 38% that she was doing a good job?
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: londonparsfan  
Date:   Tue 18 Oct 21:52

Quote:

parsfan, Tue 18 Oct 20:12

I saw 83% thought she was doing a bad job.

I think the 38% might be of those who voted for her.


The Sun report said 38% of Conservative Members thought she was doing a good job but having looked at the poll the question appears to ask if she should remain in position. I guess that could include people that think she`s done a bad job buy changing leader again would be a bad move. 57% of people that voted for her think she should stay.

Think its in here:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/10/18/most-tory-members-say-liz-truss-should-resign

I guess it`s a small but important difference on the reporting so don`t trust the Sun!
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: LochgellyAlbert  
Date:   Tue 18 Oct 22:31

On her way to Braemar this evening to meet with King Charles, that`ll be an interesting conversation.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 19 Oct 10:59

McCaig`s Tower

If you don`t understand the relevance of the Treaty of Union to the relationship between Scotland and England I suggest you Google it.

On the question of competence I acknowledged that charges of incompetence can be levelled at any government.

When East Germany `united` with West Germany after years in the Soviet bloc I thought they were simply returning to their former status rather than rejecting independence. I know nothing about the history of Croatia and can`t be bothered researching it.

Having seen your posts on independence over the years I have concluded that you are a contrarian who likes to make outrageous statements or ask outrageous questions just to get a reaction. I can`t be bothered with such games. My belief is that every country should have the right to govern itself if it so wishes.

Like desparado I am now opting out of the discussion as there comes a time when you just have to agree to disagree.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Wed 19 Oct 16:32

Suella Braverman getting the boot now.

Another u turn




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: buffy  
Date:   Wed 19 Oct 16:39

She was vile just like her predecessor. The obnoxious rant she delivered was the red card.

”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Wed 19 Oct 16:43

They`re fighting like rats in a sack now. Every cloud as they say...

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: P  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 09:22

Quote:

wee eck, Wed 19 Oct 10:59

I know nothing about the history of Croatia and can`t be bothered researching it.


The majority of Croatians wanted independence and to become a sovereign state. The ethnic Serbs living in Croatia wanted land for a new Serb state within Yugoslav jurisdiction.

I have loads of Croatian mates who see Scots as kindred spirits over the very subject of independence and to a man they are bewildered why Scotland did not vote to become independent.

As a side bar I was in a taxi in Barcelona the other day and the Catalan driver did a tremendous chicken impression to describe many of his compatriots position on their own quest for independence


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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Wotsit  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 09:40

I expect that Croatia regretted giving up its independence given the four year war they fought to regain it?


"Who you are and what you feel comes not just from inside you, but from where you are in the power structure"
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 12:32

Sir Graham Brady, chair of the 1922 Committee, is currently meeting Truss at her request.

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: wee eck  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 13:31

Statement is imminent. It looks like her tea`s oot!

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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: buffy  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 13:35

She’s gone

”Buffy’s Buns are the finest in Fife”, J. Spence 2019”
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: ipswichpar  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 13:41

Quote:

buffy, Thu 20 Oct 13:35

She’s gone


Next please! Mental.
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: Raymie the Legend  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 13:55

I did say she wouldn`t see the month out

Hooray!




It's bloody tough being a legend
Ron Atkinson - 1983
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 Re: Next UK PM
Topic Originator: widtink  
Date:   Thu 20 Oct 14:06


A deserved victory for the lettuce 🤣

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